Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

You bring up a good point concerning the Earth Alliance having a military ambassador. That is strange. Maybe only members of the military previously had sufficient contact with alien races?

Amaya wrote:You bring up a good point concerning the Earth Alliance having a military ambassador. That is strange. Maybe only members of the military previously had sufficient contact with alien races?

Spoiler:

The Minbari requested that Sinclair be the ambassador. Sheridan replaced him because Clark perceived him as xenophobic, especially in regards to Minbari.

I can live it with it, but it's annoying that an otherwise well thought out show missed that problem. If Sheridan and Sinclair had resigned from the military and then been named Ambassadors it would be fine, it would even make sense. But tehy they couldn't jump into Star Furies and go fight battles.

i liked enterprise...

Medium of Death wrote:Woah, woah, woah! Simmer down! The reboot was actually quite entertaining, and I for one am looking forward to the sequel, so there!

I always enjoyed DS9, not watched as much of it as I should have. Sisko hating Picard always annoyed me though.

Never watched B5, i'll need to correct my transgression. Maybe watch a couple of episodes online then go for a boxset if all is good.

* I liked the Enterprise reboot but more for the cool effects and the bad guys.
* Yes you need to watch all four seasons of B5. If you don't recognize therewas actually a rushed 5th season then you will be happier. Don't stop if the first half of Season 1 seems like bad Star Trek. Its gets rolling in the second half. Nothing like flashbacks where the commander is watching the entire Earth Alliance military getting wiped out and having PTSD...
*Mmm KK opened up something here on the DS 9 vs. B 5 characters. Frazzled's list of best recurring characters:
-Sheridan better than Sherman YOU BETCHA. Sometimes he's so ragey he's positively feral.
-Ivanova. Dark, mean, bitter, with neat one liners of doom, reminds me of me. Watching her lead the Whitstar fleet to wipe out the Dominion Fleet would have been epic.
-OBrian. He's like, Everyman.
-Garibaldi. Everyman II. My personal favorite after Ivanova.
-Worf. Better than Marcus in attack mode.
-Jadzeea. Easy on the eyes. Enough said
-Kosh. Crytpic Kosh interacting with Garrick would have been interesting.
-Married couples: Garrick and Quark, Molari and GKar. YES!





Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kid_Kyoto wrote:

Amaya wrote:You bring up a good point concerning the Earth Alliance having a military ambassador. That is strange. Maybe only members of the military previously had sufficient contact with alien races?

Spoiler:

The Minbari requested that Sinclair be the ambassador. Sheridan replaced him because Clark perceived him as xenophobic, especially in regards to Minbari.

I can live it with it, but it's annoying that an otherwise well thought out show missed that problem. If Sheridan and Sinclair had resigned from the military and then been named Ambassadors it would be fine, it would even make sense. But tehy they couldn't jump into Star Furies and go fight battles.

On the flip side you could say both Molari and GKar were military as well. Molari was a military war hero, and GKar was a major player in the revolution. Kosh was, well...we are all Kosh.

I don't know, Marcus stopping Neroon from assassinating Delenn vs Worf fighting half the Jem'hadar guards at the prison?

Amaya wrote:I don't know, Marcus stopping Neroon from assassinating Delenn vs Worf fighting half the Jem'hadar guards at the prison?

We live for the one. We die for the one!

Fighting scenes were meh but the one liners were awesome.

Imagine Worf as a raging warrior Membari...

B5 had the most bad@$$ female characters;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RaSmassvv4w

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mURWOwkFPM

Not a Trek fan, but DS9 was the one that I could sit down and watch. I guess because it was different to TOS, TNG and that horrific wide-awake nightmare that was Voyager. The series finale was unforgivable though - reusing special effects from Tears of the Prophets and other big DS9 battles? Lazy as feth!

Experiment 626 wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mURWOwkFPM

I've never been a B5 fan, and I've see maybe 5 episodes in total... but I love that scene.

I remember trying to watch an episode of B5 about a labor strike with the workers.
I remember thinking how much of a waste it was to move a "current" issue(or at least not
what I imagine to be a pressing issue in the far future!) to a scifi show. We should be seeing
fantastic new terrors and peril. Not hashing out workers rights. Well, unless they're an oppressed
alien race and there's a asteroid heading for the planet where they are having the negotiations!

/

alarmingrick wrote:I remember trying to watch an episode of B5 about a labor strike with the workers.
I remember thinking how much of a waste it was to move a "current" issue(or at least not
what I imagine to be a pressing issue in the far future!) to a scifi show. We should be seeing
fantastic new terrors and peril. Not hashing out workers rights. Well, unless they're an oppressed
alien race and there's a asteroid heading for the planet where they are having the negotiations!

/

Babylon 5 introduced the dedicated 'story arc' to US shows. That episode in question was a 'filler' that had some very subtle arc points - namely how things are starting to change on Earth and as Sinclair says, "not all for the best." This episode was critical to showing the growing discontent & divide between Sinclair and certain forces within Earthgov.
of corse, this is all vieled within the bigger theme of Earthgov simply saying ' the little guy!'

Babylon 5 had the disadvantage of being a show where you couldn't just catch any old episode and think, "this is fething awsome!" By the nature of the deep story arc, you have to sit down and watch it right from the pilot movie 'The Gathering' through to the end of Season 4. (the 5th season kinda sucked and felt purely tacked on because JMS never even expected to make it through season 4!)

With B5 it very much is like watching a novel on screen and each was even titled as such;
The Gathering pilot movie = author's introduction. (only a couple major arc points, namely revolving around Sinclair & the Earth-Minbari war + what the hell are these Vorlons?!)
Season 1 - Signs and Portents = Character intros and a few hints at where the story is going.
Season 2 - The Coming of Shadows = Big foreshadowing of the epic conflict that's about to begin.
Season 3 - Point of No Return = Climax where the really starts to hit the fan and the battlelines are clearly drawn, ending with a massive surprise almost no one ever expected!
Season 4 - No Retreat, No Surrender = The final battles and the dust settling as a 'new age' begins.

The first season could get boring in places, but you were really rewarded by a couple key moments early on, and then spoiled as things got going by episodes 118 - 122! The season ender was epic in how it set up so much of what was to come too!
Season two answers a few questions and poses about a hundred more! Season three is full of almost non-stop action and ends with an absolutely massive & shocking revelation. And season 4 ends off pretty much all the lose ends and the various wars.

I will say that season 5 was just plain bad. Partly due to some major casting changes and re-jiggling of character roles, partly because JMS admitted he never even really thought he'd get that far! There were a few good moments, but overall it was a let down and didn't have anywhere near the feeling of true epicness that seasons 3 & 4 had.


As for absolute terrors... They were called by many names and they were insanely terrifying! No Star Trek shows ever had entire races callously wiped out because of simply following the wrong ideology and/or being in the wrong place at the wrong time!
And the peril in B5 is simply a recurring war that spans the entire galaxcy and wipes out millions of lives!

Dear DS9 producers

If you establish in S3 E1 the Defiant has no science labs and is a dedicated warship...

You should not have it doing scientific research in episode 8.

Just a thought here.

I mean this is obviously an alien of week/love affair of the week/technobabble of the week show but at least try not to make it painfully bad from the first scene.

Ah well.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@Experiment - point of information, DS9 did have entire races being wiped out for being in the wrong place


Automatically Appended Next Post:
On this episode...

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Meridian_%28episode%29

"Meridian" is based on Brigadoon, a musical about a magical Scottish village that appears only once every one hundred years. Co-Executive Producer Ira Steven Behr, an admirer of Brigadoon, confessed to originating the idea about making an episode based on the musical. Of his idea to do a Star Trek show based on Brigadoon, Behr says "I am a moron."




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Another good quote

Many members of the DS9 staff consider this episode to be the worst of the season. For example, writer Hilary J. Bader says "Of all the stories I've done for Star Trek, "Meridian" is my least favorite"; writer/producer Ronald D. Moore claims "I don't think anyone likes the show. I don't think we liked the show. This one just went wrong. It never jelled"; and visual effects supervisor Glenn Neufeld says "A classic case of making it up as we go. I don't want to talk about it." (Star Trek: Deep Space Nine Companion)

Maybe it was some ad hoc, emergency sciencing?

KamikazeCanuck wrote:Maybe it was some ad hoc, emergency sciencing?

Yeah, maybe they were just collecting data and samples and stuff to analyze back in the labs on DS9?

Well they sent the Defiant to survey some systems.

It sort of makes sense, you can't send a lightly armed runabout in and with its cloak and weapons the Defiant made sense, but y'know all you need is a line or two 'I can't do this with the limited resources on the Defiant' but no mapping dimensional anomalies, probing suns, zapping people into other dimensions with a transporter... Apparently all of that can be done off of one console.

Now on the 2-parter Past Tense when Sisko et al are beamed into the distant future year 2030 when homeless are herded into camps. It's another anomaly of the week episode but again, the Defiant - which has NO SCIENCE LABS - has not trouble rigging up an ad hoc time machine.

Just annoying.

Why make a point of saying something and then ignore it a few weeks later? Heck the line could have been 'The Defiant barely has any science labs' and it would all be cool.

Funny what you notice seeing a show in one sitting rather than over a year.

Ya well don't forget that Star Fleet isn't really a military organization (as evidenced by the defiant's weirdness). It's an army of scientists and astrophysicists. The stupidest people in Star Fleet are equivalent to modern day doctors. They tend to naturally MacGyver everything when left to their own devices.

I'm a huge star trek geek and I've watched every show in its entirety...except DS9. It's by far the worst IMO and in every episode I'm always finding myself wishing something terrible would happen to all the crew, preferably a nasty death. I just want them all to die, I guess that makes me a bad person, lol.

Ok well it's not all bad, Quark is a great bit of comic relief. Other than that it's just more star trek. You seen one you seen em all.

I just could never get around how silly all Star Trek space battles were! No real tactics, just 'evasion pattern gamma, attack pattern omega & fire all torpedoes!'

At first I hated DS9 the most. I thought it was the worst Star Trek. Then a few years later they played the entire series end to end one episode per night and I just sort of watched it as part of my bedtime routine. That's when I started to appreciate it a lot more. It was hard to follow all that politics on a weekly basis. Plus I was older and political intrigue wasn't as boring as when I was young.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:At first I hated DS9 the most. I thought it was the worst Star Trek. Then a few years later they played the entire series end to end one episode per night and I just sort of watched it as part of my bedtime routine. That's when I started to appreciate it a lot more. It was hard to follow all that politics on a weekly basis. Plus I was older and political intrigue wasn't as boring as when I was young.

If you liked DS9, then I would recomend you give Babylon 5 a good try as it's a much more grimdark & gritty series that has an element of true 'epicness' about it!

Experiment 626 wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:At first I hated DS9 the most. I thought it was the worst Star Trek. Then a few years later they played the entire series end to end one episode per night and I just sort of watched it as part of my bedtime routine. That's when I started to appreciate it a lot more. It was hard to follow all that politics on a weekly basis. Plus I was older and political intrigue wasn't as boring as when I was young.

If you liked DS9, then I would recomend you give Babylon 5 a good try as it's a much more grimdark & gritty series that has an element of true 'epicness' about it!

You must be new to this thread. I found B5 boring.

Up to the second Mirror Universe story.

Don't like alternate universes, usually it's a sign that the writers are too shackled and have to break the laws of reality just so they can change something. But they are fun.

Basically they took they original idea (everyone is evil) and moved it up 100 years. Thanks to Kirk and Spock the evil Earth Empire started reforming and was quickly overrun by the Klingons and Cardasians so now people are slaves.

Message - don't try and be nice.

But the icky message aside they are fun. The cast is obviously having a blast playing Pirate Sisko, hero Nog and bisexual Dominatrix Kira.

So there's that...

"I think you'll find that random and undeserved executions will keep your work force motivated"




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Did Sisko just sleep with Dax?

Yes, yes he did.

Mirror Dax but still.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:Dear DS9 producers

If you establish in S3 E1 the Defiant has no science labs and is a dedicated warship...

You should not have it doing scientific research in episode 8.

Just a thought here.

I mean this is obviously an alien of week/love affair of the week/technobabble of the week show but at least try not to make it painfully bad from the first scene.

Ah well.

Dear Kyoto,

Star Trek is one of the most internally and externally inconsistent shows of all time. It makes GW look positively regimented.

Regards,
Me.

Wow.

Wow that was good.

So darn good.

A 2 parter, Improbable Cause and the Die is Cast.

It starts with Garak's shop exploding and ends with a fleet bombing the Changeling homeworld into slag.

It's darn good.

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Improbable_Cause_%28episode%29
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/The_Die_is_Cast_%28episode%29

I starting to suspect Garak is not a simple tailor.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:I starting to suspect Garak is not a simple tailor.

He's not..
He's a damn good tailor

True.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:
You CANNOT have a show based on 'to boldly go where no one has gone before' and look backwards!

By a similar token, isn't that what makes DS9 anathema to Star Trek? Can't exactly "boldly go" if you're "boldly sitting in a space station". There's no "Trek" in "Station[ary]."

They also dropped the ball big time in the new movie by not turning around and seeing where the singularity would take them....their escape was just stupid.

Cadorius wrote:

Kid_Kyoto wrote:
You CANNOT have a show based on 'to boldly go where no one has gone before' and look backwards!

By a similar token, isn't that what makes DS9 anathema to Star Trek? Can't exactly "boldly go" if you're "boldly sitting in a space station". There's no "Trek" in "Station[ary]."

I hear that argument used in criticisms of DS9 quite frequently, most often from people who haven't really watched the show. They have roundabouts in the early seasons, and from season 3 on they have the Defiant and are scooting around the Gamma quadrant as often as they are on the station. Exploration of the Gamma quadrant is a huge part of DS9, not to mention the cultural exploration and discovery angle due to DS9 basically being the gateway between the Alpha and Gamma quadrant, so a lot of different things end up coming to them as well.

What follows is a spoiler!




Basically, saying that the crew doesn't go anywhere in DS9 because they're "boldly sitting on a space station" is as silly and inaccurate as saying the Next Generation crew doesn't go anywhere because they're sitting on the Enterprise the whole time.

Hmmmm, Defiant vs White Star (both containing full compliment of regular cast crew)... /ponder...

I'm going with White Star.

I'd say the Defiant probably has better guns and would blow a White Star out of the sky (or rather space), except that I think the Defiant would have a really hard time actually Hitting the much faster and more maneuverable White Star. Open/even battlefield, I think I'd go with White Star as well.