y'know what's a jolly, jolly good show? Deep Space 9

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**Kid_Kyoto**

I've been watching from the start, now halfway through season 2 and y'know it's good. Quite good.

Yeah it's got a lot of Star Trek stiffness, and yeah, too many alien/monster of the week shows but even those are OK because of the character moments.

And yeah, somehow the Irish guy wtih the Japanese wife is suddenly much more interesting.

And I do love those Runabouts.

Can't wait for season 4+ the Defiant, Worf, the Dominion War... This show is up there with Babylon 5.

**Corey85**

I was always a bigger fan of Babylon 5, but the Dominion War was really awesome.

**purplefood**

I always liked it...
Red had a marathon of them over the summer a few years ago so i watched it all...
Pretty good i thought though for some reason Odo really annoyed me...

**Amaya**

It's up there with Babylon 5 because it was based on/inspired by JMS's early script for B5.

They are from being entirely identical, but you can see the similarities between them. DS9 is my favorite Star Trek series (In the Pale Moonlight is one of my favorite scifi episodes of all time, period) mainly because it departed from the episodic nature of the other series and had a well developed story arc.

Spoiler:

**purplefood**

Sisko is fairly badass...

**Corey85**

Sisko was a bad mofo

**Amaya**

I WILL NAIL YOU TO THE WALL!

vs Captain Sheridan

**Corey85**

Its been up on Netflix for awhile now, but I'm worried that once I start re-watching them I won't be able to stop. I'm looking at you next generation

**Hordini**

Yeah, it's my favorite Star Trek series, for sure. I started watching the German-dubbed version this year from season one on, and It gets even better as it goes along, with less alien of the week episodes and more story arc episodes.

There are definitely some very powerful moments later on in the series.

Spoiler:

**Aduro**

Ive seen the last episode, but I've never seen the last season, maybe two.

**Chongara**

Kid_Kyoto wrote:
And yeah, somehow the Irish guy wtih the Japanese wife is suddenly much more interesting.

O'Brian? Pretty sure he had a husband, not a wife.

**Aduro**

Also, DS9 wasn't good because it's story was copied from Bab5. A good premise doesnt ensure a good show. Voyager and Stargate Universe had much the same premise but had different levels of success.

P.S. Bab5 was awesome and I wish they'd do more with it.

**Morathi's Darkest Sin**

Fave Star Trek show for sure, Babylon 5 and Farscape are rated above it, but its a solid third for my Sci-fi TV shows.

As to the copied B5 stuff, aye maybe, but they are two very different shows with where they went with that intial source material and as a Sci-fi fan, I think we would have been short changed if one or the other had not aired.

**Kilkrazy**

Aduro wrote:Also, DS9 wasn't good because it's story was copied from Bab5. ... .

Babylon 5 came out a year after Deep Space 9. It demonstrates the awesome powers possessed by the writers of DS9 that they had the prescience to travel into the future to copy the idea.

**Nocturn**

DS9 wasn't bad, but I love me some TNG. Voyager is a close second.

There weren't enough distress calls in DS9, and you really can't beat Picard.

**Amaya**

Kilkrazy wrote:
Aduro wrote:Also, DS9 wasn't good because it's story was copied from Bab5. ... .

Babylon 5 came out a year after Deep Space 9. It demonstrates the awesome powers possessed by the writers of DS9 that they had the prescience to travel into the future to copy the idea.

Kil, it's best not to insult people when you no idea what you're talking about.

JMS shipped the idea of Babylon 5 to Paramount as early at 1989, but they passed because for various reasons. He "provided them with the series bible, pilot script, artwork, lengthy character background histories, and "synopses to about 22 or so planned episodes taken from the overall course of the planned series."

"3) B5 dates back to 1987. If he would like to see some sneaky
references to it in print, tell him to go check out a copy of OtherSyde,
my second novel, published in around 1990, which contains a reference to
Babylon 5. Also, if he has a bunch of old Starlogs, if he wants to check
in around 1988, he will find an interview with me in which one of the
things mentioned is that I'm working to sell a show called Babylon 5. A
final reference to B5 is in an episode of Captain Power called "Final
Stand," which I slipped in for funsies."

http://www.jmsnews.com/msg.aspx?id=1-7864
http://www.jmsnews.com/msg.aspx?id=1-7652
http://www.jmsnews.com/msg.aspx?id=1-3367
http://www.jmsnews.com/msg.aspx?id=1-14441

**purplefood**

KK didn't actually insult him though...

**Aduro**

I dunno. I do feel horribly offended by his comment and I think I may have to respond in true American fashion now.

**hotsauceman1**

I like voyager more, never got into DS9

**Amaya**

purplefood wrote:KK didn't actually insult him though...

He sarcastically implied that the guy didn't know what the feth he was talking about because B5 came out a year after DS9. I consider that unnecessarily rude.

**purplefood**

Amaya wrote:
purplefood wrote:KK didn't actually insult him though...

He sarcastically implied that the guy didn't know what the feth he was talking about because B5 came out a year after DS9. I consider that unnecessarily rude.

Everything is relative...
Sarcasm can seem harsh at times but it isn't necessarily an insult.

**Kilkrazy**

It just shows the awesome power of whoever wrote Babylon 5, that they were able to watch Deep Space 9 for the idea, then time travel back to the past in order not to get the show accepted by Paramount.

**Amaya**

Kilkrazy wrote:It just shows the awesome power of whoever wrote Babylon 5, that they were able to watch Deep Space 9 for the idea, then time travel back to the past in order not to get the show accepted by Paramount.

Not sure if serious. Either way, I have only one reaction to this statement.

Spoiler:

**Ahtman**

Babylon 5 invented the idea of a space station. Everyone knows that. It would have3 been impossible for anyone to have a similar idea, so it must have been stolen through the use of a time machine. Oddly, this means that the original Star Trek, which had episodes taking place entirely on space stations, was also written after Babylon 5, but sent back in time. Kubrik also ripped it off in 2001.

**purplefood**

Time travel is confusing...
Time travel with IP laws attached would be even more confusing...

**RossDas**

I remember reading somewhere that they'd originally planned for the series to be a bit darker, like the pilot basically, but the pilot wasn't altogether well received. I'm not sure if the negativity came from Trek fans, the public or a mixture both; the complaints expressing confusion about the station doors not working seemed to miss the point!

**Amaya**

In the Pale Moonlight received a lot of backlash from some fans for being overly grimdark. As a whole, DS9 received a fair amount of criticism from ST fans for not being true to Roddenberry's vision of a utopian future.

**RossDas**

Amaya wrote:In the Pale Moonlight received a lot of backlash from some fans for being overly grimdark. As a whole, DS9 received a fair amount of criticism from ST fans for not being true to Roddenberry's vision of a utopian future.

To be fair I think TNG pushed that model of Trek as far as it would go without becoming self-recycling, and that kind of goes against the motto of "boldly going"!

I think the utopian future is great when applied to the Federation, but it's possible to subject that perfect society to the strains and trials of a war it might not win and still remain faithful to the Roddenberry vision - so long as the writers are doing so to explore those moral conundrums and difficult decisions, as opposed to just making entertaining TV. I never got to see DS9 all the way through and so I cannot really offer an opinion on whether the writers succeeded in that respect.

**Amaya**

Star Trek TOS and TNG are pretty decent shows and I don't care much either way concerning Voyager. IMO, the best of Star Trek is Wrath of Khan, The Undiscovered Country and DS9 because they're willing to move out of the perfect future and deal with morally gray/darker issues especially in TUC and DS9.

**Experiment 626**

Babylon 5 for me is hands down bette rthan DS9. Better characters, much more grimdark & 'real' in that humans aren't the end-all-be-all super power and there are no real bad guy/good guy, just various shades of grey. (okay, President Clark was easily a power hungry & ruthless evil tyrant!)

Oh, and Sisko is nowhere near as bad@$$ as Sheridan!

Spoiler:

Not to mention the whole trmapling Mr.Morden's civil rights into the gorund because "he's legally dead according to Earthdome", and illegally holding him without charge, then having him illegally scaned by a highly unwilling Talia Winters...