Ultramarine Bashing

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**goundry**

Circa M29: The Unification Wars.
The Emperor of Mankind unites Terra, and sets off to conquer the stars in a series of violent and bloody battles. The Ultramarines’ Primarch, Roboute Guilliman , is conveniently located on the other side of the galaxy when this occurs.

and yet he wasn't the last one found

012.M31-014.M31: The Horus Heresy.
Under the leadership of Warmaster Horus of the Sons of Horus, the traitors turn on their fellow Legions, causing serious losses. The Salamanders, Iron Hands, and Raven Guard are nearly destroyed including the death of Primarch Ferrus Manus and the disappearance of Primarch Vulkan, the Dark Angels lose their homeworld and possibly their Primarch Lion El'Jonson while the Space Wolves are bogged down in a protracted battle with the Thousand Sons. Only the Blood Angels, Imperial Fists, and White Scars are able to return before the traitors lay Siege to Holy Terra, where they take serious losses (including the death of Primarch Sanguinius). The Emperor defeats Horus, causing the traitors to scatter, but is crippled and forced to ascend the Golden Throne. The Ultramarines are conveniently located on the other side of the galaxy when this occurs. After the Heresy, Rowboat Girlyman formed the High Lords of Terra and created the Codex Astartes. Note that the Ultramarines didn't participate in the defense of Terra, didn't sustain crippling damage to their Chapter's manpower, and note that, best of all, when they arrived they were too fething late. The war was already won, yet their primarch still was the first to create the new rules.

i think tour missing the bit were horus had to let the emperor on board his ship because the ultramarines and dark angels were now only a few days out from terra

546.M32: 'The Beheading':
The High Lords of Terra are all slain on the orders of Drakan Vangorich, Grand Master of the Officio Assassinorum. The rogue Master of Assassins is tracked down and slain by a Space Marine strikeforce drawn from the Imperial Fists, Halo Brethren and Sable Swords. Of over a thousand men deployed, only a single Space Marine survives the campaign. The Ultramarines are conveniently located on the other side of the galaxy when this occurs.

843.M35: Distress call from Grendel's World investigated.
Planet discovered to have been attacked and all inhabitants slain by terror tactics of the Night Lords. The Ultramarines are conveniently located on the other side of the galaxy when this occurs.

Early M36: The Age of Apostasy and the Reign of Blood begin.
Warp storms increase dramatically and Chaos and Ork attacks multiply. The Imperium falls into turmoil. An empowered Ecclesiarchy becomes more tyrannical. High Lord Goge Vandire, Master of the Administratum, assumes the post of Ecclesiarch, becomes the most powerful member of the Senate of the High Lords of Terra, and manipulates a small sect, the Daughters of the Emperor (today the Sisters of Battle), into becoming his personal bodyguards, the Brides of the Emperor. Vandire rules largely unopposed and becomes more and more bloody and tyrannical. Zhoros, homeworld of the Fire Hawks' chapter, is thermal bombed. The Ultramarines are conveniently located on the other side of the galaxy when this occurs.

266.M36: Sebastian Thor is born on Dimmamar.
He eventually becomes a threat to Vandire, who sends the Frateris Templar fleet to destroy Dimmamar. The fleet is completely destroyed by a warp storm, still in existence today, named the Storm of the Emperor's Wrath in the Clax system. Vandire's armies are finally defeated by combined forces of the Tech Guard and several chapters of Space Marines, organized under the banner of the Confederation of Light, led by Thor. Vandire is executed by Alicia Dominica, the leader of his own bodyguards, who reclaim their old name Daughters of the Emperor in a conspiracy involving the Adeptus Custodes and the Emperor himself. The Ultramarines are conveniently located on the other side of the galaxy when this occurs.

723.M36: The 5th Black Crusade begins.
Doombreed, a deamon prince of Khorne, declares war on the Adeptus Astartes. The Warhawks and the Venerators are lost. The Ultramarines are conveniently located on the other side of the galaxy when this occurs.

995.M40-000.M41 The Macharian Crusades.
Macharius, Lord Commander of the Segmentum Solar, sets out to reconquer the Segmentum Pacificus for the Imperium. The Ultramarines are conveniently located on the other side of the galaxy when this occurs.

444.M41: First War for Armageddon.
Chaos incursion led by Angron and his World Eaters beaten back by the Space Wolves and Grey Knights but only at a terrible cost. Only about a dozen of the Grey Knights survive the battle with Angron. The local planetary militia and the other citizens are mind-wiped, sterilized and put into work camps, to slave away for the rest of their short, miserable lives much to the horror of Logan Grimnar. The Ultramarines are conveniently located on the other side of the galaxy when this occurs.

and yet theres no hate for all the other chapters that weren't "conveniently locate on the other side of the galaxy" and didnt take part

742.M41 Damocles Crusade is launched against the Tau Empire
, due to the Imperium's ever growing Xenophobia, a small, strategically insignificant piece of nothingness, inhabited by weak fish people with minimal Faster-Than-Light Technology. The Ultramarines are thoroughly defeated along with the rest of the Imperial forces. Those "aberrations" known as the Black Templars come in and beat the hell out of the Tau after the Ultramarines leave for the...

wasn't it the imperial fist that were the flagship marines for this crusade?

745.M41: First Tyrannic War.
Hive Fleet Behemoth attacks the Ultramarines' homeworld, Macragge. Most of the chapter is eaten by Nids and lose their entire 1st company, the Chapter's company of hardened veterans and Terminators. The second fight they get and they still blew it, lulz.

most of the chapter were abourd warships trying to fight off an entire hive fleet and didnt get munched

754-775.M41: Sabbat Worlds Crusade.
The Imperium deploys a massive force under Warmaster Slaydo to retake the Sabbat Worlds from the forces of Chaos. Several Space Marine chapters participate, including the White Scars and those "aberrations" called the Raven Guard and the Imperial Fists, eventually succeeding in driving Chaos from the sector. The Ultramarines are conveniently located on the other side of the galaxy when this occurs.

897.M41: Battle of Sanctuary 101.
The Necrons attack the Adepta Sororitas at the fortress-convent of Sanctuary 101, with every sister slaughtered to the last woman, marking first contact between the Imperium and the Necrons. The Ultramarines are conveniently located on the other side of the galaxy when this occurs.

901-912.M41 Badab War.
The Astral Claws, Lamenters, Executioners, and Mantis Warriors chapters rebel against the Imperium, and are defeated by loyalist chapters. The Ultramarines are conveniently located on the other side of the galaxy when this occurs

as above ( you must realy dislike a lot of marine chapters ( 900 odd infact) if not getting involved is your reaon)

941-942.M41: Second War for Armageddon.
The Ultramarines bump into Waaagh! Ghazghull while running away from the Tyranids. They are saved by the timely intervention of Commissar Yarrick and the Blood Angels. Marneus Calgar's first action is to acknowledge Dante as overall commander of the Space Marines on Armageddon

not sure on this one so nothing to say

988.M41: The battle of Rynn's World begins.
A large ork army, led by the Warboss Snagrod, attacks the Crimson Fists and their homeworld. During the battle, a stray missile strikes the Fortress-Monastery of the Crimson Fists, killing most of the Marines. The survivors are severely crippled and are forced to rebuild their chapter. The Ultramarines are conveniently located on the other side of the galaxy when this occurs.

757998.M41: The Third War for Armageddon begins.
Having learned from past mistakes, Imperial Commanders commit a ridiculous amount of forces to hold the world. It drags on for months in a bloody stalemate until Ghazghull grows bored and leaves his generals to finish the fight while he goes looking for other worlds to conquer. Commissar Yarrick joins a Black Templars Crusade and gives chase. The Ultramarines are conveniently located on the other side of the galaxy when this occurs.

5999.M41: Warmaster Abaddon launches the 13th Black Crusade.
The armies of Chaos Undivided lay siege primarily to Cadia but attack many of the surrounding worlds as well. Imperial Forces launch a massive counterattack, and eventually push back the tides of Chaos, but only just barely, and at great cost. The Space Wolves' 13th Company are amongst the forces seen fighting against the forces of Chaos. The Ultramarines were apparently man enough to get into the fighting... by offering some honor guard units that barely made up half a company. Yes, we're facepalming with you too.

and again, oh and how big is a space wolf company thats been in the warp for millenia? say half a company?

so do we now need to get the ultramarine time line out and show how often space wolve blood angels and dark angels were on the other side of the galaxy and didn't get involved?

Automatically Appended Next Post:
I think a lot of the hate comes from the whole poster boy and vinilla marine image, but people forget that originaly it was blood angels on the front of all the boxsets.

and as for being vinilla marines, theres some truth to this but the problems not realy with the "codex space marines" it's the fact that there arn't enough down sides to playing a specialist chapter, they get pritty much every thing an ultramarines army gets plus there own cool toys, were as in reality they should loose access to them

**SylvanaSekNadin**

Henners91 wrote:http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Ultramarines

That was an interesting read, and manages to even sum up some of my feelings about them.

I think one of the main reasons why I have a mild dislike for the ultramarines is that they are often claimed to be the best, in a grimdark setting like 40K though, we are not looking for the best to be the heroes. It is similar to why I hate draigo, he is just too awesome which is really unappealing in a universe where millions grind their lives away to simply keep the imerium turning. They need a bit of personality and flaws injected into them. Instead everything about them is idyllic. They give off the feeling of just being too perfect which to me sucks because there are some really good parts to them too.

I personally like Magnus Clagar because he is a warrior who has had all his limbs and quite a lot else removed over the course of his history. He is an experienced and capable warrior who got to where he is through painful sacrifice. I even like Sergent Tellion, he has personality despite coming off a little as too awesome, he is seen as more human because he is seen as an old man teaching the new young people the ropes with experience that can only be gained with years and years of fighting.

However with Characters like Tigurius where it implies he is the greatest psyker in the imperium and completely ignores the multitudes of other librarian focused chapters or the blood angels librarian which have the power of divination in their gene seed from sanguinus. Yet despite other chapters, the ultramarines get the greatest psycher? Similarly the extreme resilience of Cassius also annoys me as it would be far more likely for the most resilient chaplain to be part of the imperial fists, black templars or even the space wolves.

There is nothing wrong with a chapter having an exceptional individual, but when you add all of them together then you are left with a chapter that just seems too good. They are the best at all aspects of being a space marine seemingly surpassing even the specialized space marine chapters, and that makes them shine just a little too brightly for the grimdark world of 40K

**Shadox**

htj wrote:
Shadox wrote:
htj wrote:
Shadox wrote:
Manchu wrote: As far as them being "generic" -- who can say this is boring when every other Chapter is not generic? Being the only one that is generic, they are actually unique and therefore cannot be generic. Indeed, the Ultramarines are the most unique of SM Chapters insasmuch as they administer the only scrap of the Imperium that is not a waking nightmare. This is a feat none of their many successors have managed. All in all, the Ultramarines do one thing extremely well: following the Codex. That is the one thing that they are better at than all other Chapters. All these cries of "Mary Sue" cannot stand up against a simple rational look at the material and for that reason alone we will continue to hear the cries of "Mary Sue" echo throughout the internet.
No they are clearly not the only ones who are generic. They have a huge pile of Successor Chapters that did not make the leap over the shadow of their fathers. Praetors of Orpheus, Sons of Orar, Black Consuls, White Consuls, Genesis Chapter, even the Novamarines, while being known by many, have nothing to let them shine out so much. After all they are just Ultramarines Number XX.

Not their fathers, their brothers. All of those Chapters were Ultramarines before they were split off in the second founding.

I love Ultramarines, and love their successors. People write them off as bland a lot, which suprises me, but it could be that there's less fluff about who they are in the more recent Codexes and more fluff about what they do.
Fathers was intended. I admit that predecessors would be more fitting, but I think we can assume, that every chapter does the 'daily stuff' that the ultramarines do (its just very well documented in their case), so we have to look at bigger events. Were the Ultramarines at any of the big rumbles in the galaxy except Behemoth and the Damocles-Crusade? (I do not want to say they were doing nothing) So we have things like the Apostasy, the 13th Black Crusade and the Wars for Armageddon, where the Ultramarines were nearly absent. But in such important events a chapter is able to make a name for themselves, a name the Ultramarines already had. That's the reason why I compare the successors to the deeds of their predecessors where they protected the IoM in the aftermath of the Heresy and where they conquered nearly a third of the galaxy in the great crusade on their own.

FYI not all of the chapters I listed were from the 2nd founding

Oh right, the Sons of Orar weren't. Surely those who were in the UM during the Heresy have already proven themselves?

How can you be so sure with that? In the case of the Crimson Fists it's clearly stated that the chapter was formed out of the comparely new members of the Legion. This could have been the same in the case of the Ultramarines. Why should Roboute Guilliman send his best advisors, with who he worked so well together, away from him? But yes it is very unlikely that in the long row of 2nd Founding Chapters of the Ultras there were no veterans and somewhere they had to get their captains from

But I'm pretty sure that some of the new Chapter Masters were kinda happy that they were now only responsible to themselves, even if it was just their beloved Primarch before. But with this independence comes the lose of the fame which comes along with the Name of the Ultramarines. It's there task to build such a reputation for their own chapter.

My personally opinion is that most of the Successors failed at this task. It's mainly because of the lag of information, but they probably wanted to much for the Legion of the Ultramarines to be both a remarkable 1st Founding Chapter and a remarkable Legion as a whole. So you get either a nicely fluffed-out Founding Chapter (which will always draw more attention than a single successor. The only exception would be the Black Templars) or an overall fluffed-out Legion with close-to-all Successor Chapters, but with less attention on said Founding Chapter. If you look at the Blood Angels Codex a better example for latter, but again it's the much smaller number of chapters covered. So the goal was lower and much more likely to be hit.

**Manchu**

Shadox wrote:No they are clearly not the only ones who are generic. They have a huge pile of Successor Chapters that did not make the leap over the shadow of their fathers. Praetors of Orpheus, Sons of Orar, Black Consuls, White Consuls, Genesis Chapter, even the Novamarines, while being known by many, have nothing to let them shine out so much. After all they are just Ultramarines Number XX.

Whenever the Ultramarines successors get described in greater detail, they turn out to have interesting little kinks that make them different from the Ultramarines. For example, the White Consuls have two Chapter Masters and subscribe to the beliefs of the Ecclesiarchy. The only Chapters that are "just Ultramarines Number XX" are the ones no one has bothered to write about yet.

**Testify**

I don't see what's wrong with being generic. I always found it kind of adolescent how all the Primarchs had their own distinctive and unique personalities - just like how you're a beautiful and unique snowflake!

**Manchu**

Who wants to read about 18 guys that are all the exact same? One thing I really liked about Know No Fear is how Guilliman came off as so distinct from his brothers. I was worried he might be indistinguishable from Rogal Dorn but they are definitely very different leaders. Just as Guilliman is different from all of his fellow primarchs, the UM are different from all other legions. And after they broke into Chapters per the Codex, many of the Chapters were former Ultramarines that shared a lot in common. Over the milennia, however, they have clearly diverged quite a bit.

**htj**

Shadox wrote:How can you be so sure with that? In the case of the Crimson Fists it's clearly stated that the chapter was formed out of the comparely new members of the Legion. This could have been the same in the case of the Ultramarines. Why should Roboute Guilliman send his best advisors, with who he worked so well together, away from him? But yes it is very unlikely that in the long row of 2nd Founding Chapters of the Ultras there were no veterans and somewhere they had to get their captains from
But I'm pretty sure that some of the new Chapter Masters were kinda happy that they were now only responsible to themselves, even if it was just their beloved Primarch before. But with this independence comes the lose of the fame which comes along with the Name of the Ultramarines. It's there task to build such a reputation for their own chapter.

My personally opinion is that most of the Successors failed at this task. It's mainly because of the lag of information, but they probably wanted to much for the Legion of the Ultramarines to be both a remarkable 1st Founding Chapter and a remarkable Legion as a whole. So you get either a nicely fluffed-out Founding Chapter (which will always draw more attention than a single successor. The only exception would be the Black Templars) or an overall fluffed-out Legion with close-to-all Successor Chapters, but with less attention on said Founding Chapter. If you look at the Blood Angels Codex a better example for latter, but again it's the much smaller number of chapters covered. So the goal was lower and much more likely to be hit.

Well... I'm sure because it says that the chapters were made out of the Ultramarines extras in the 2nd ed. Ultramarines book, and it seems unlikely that only 1000 of a 10,000 odd strong chapter were any good. Not does it seem likely to me that Guilliman would grant leadership of a chapter of his marines to any but the best.

I think the problem with lack of glory for the successors is that they just aren't written about. There just isn't room. But in a way, that's nice, as it gives the player more freedom to create a chapter's history for themselves, on the tabletop.

I can't help but feel that a lot of people (and this isn't directed at anyone in particular) look at the other marine chapters and their big, overstated, obvious flaws - then look at the Ultramarines and think 'huh, they're too perfect.' Hardly. They have less cartoony flaws in their chapter, they don't have a gimmick, but that doesn't make what they are - pure Space Marine - boring.

**Manchu**

htj wrote:they don't have a gimmick

Yes, I think that is a big part of this. We've got wolf marines, vamp marines, emo marines, etc, etc, and UM are perceived as just marine marines. Personally, I still find the concept of Space Marines pretty interesting in itself. I don't need them to be genetically enhanced super warrior-monks and wear dresses and (as someone hilariously put it ITT) write sad poetry in order to find them cool.

**Steelmage99**

goundry wrote:

so do we now need to get the ultramarine time line out and show how often space wolve blood angels and dark angels were on the other side of the galaxy and didn't get involved?

Neither of which are presented as paragons of virtue we should all aspire to.
Neither of which are apparently the envy of all other chapters.
Neither of which have a primarch that had the arrogance to dictate to all the other primarchs how the Emperium should continue, after having done basically nothing to defend it.

In the end, the text I presented is a fun titbit from 4chan not to be taken overly serious.

**Eidolon**

Because neckbeards hate things that are popular or put on a pedestal as better than other things. Its why ultramarines and marines in general receive so much undeserved moaning.

**goundry**

sorry ive been an ultramarine player right from the start and some times i just get anoyed with the UM bashing, i wish they'd use another chapter for ther poster boys once in a while, hell how about even a different chapter for each of the boxes imperial fist terminators, UM tactical, chrimson fist devestaors

Anyways im going to go take my happy pills and stop snaping

**Manchu**

Steelmage99 wrote:not to be taken overly serious.

But you seem to take it as a serious argument, looking at the rest of your post. For example, you say the UM did nothing to defend the Imperium -- and that is blatantly false.

**Shadox**

goundry wrote:sorry ive been an ultramarine player right from the start and some times i just get anoyed with the UM bashing, i wish they'd use another chapter for ther poster boys once in a while, hell how about even a different chapter for each of the boxes imperial fist terminators, UM tactical, chrimson fist devestaors

Anyways im going to go take my happy pills and stop snaping

You are lucky. All the signs are that DA will take the Poster-Boy-Role for some time. They're already on the rulebook and the will be in the Starterbox

**ZebioLizard2**

Shadox wrote:
goundry wrote:sorry ive been an ultramarine player right from the start and some times i just get anoyed with the UM bashing, i wish they'd use another chapter for ther poster boys once in a while, hell how about even a different chapter for each of the boxes imperial fist terminators, UM tactical, chrimson fist devestaors

Anyways im going to go take my happy pills and stop snaping
You are lucky. All the signs are that DA will take the Poster-Boy-Role for some time. They're already on the rulebook and the will be in the Starterbox

Yes just like BA took it in 2nd edition, Crimson Fists in the 1st edition and Black Templar in the 3rd edition!

It's not like anyone should be annoyed with this, after all it could still be Codex: Ultramarines rather than Codex: All Adeptas Astartes Marines.

**DAaddict**

SW - Wolfy wolf wolf.
BT - Crazed maniacs that hate on pskers
BA - Vampires in space
GK - A marines marine if you think a marine is awesome just think how other marines feel about GK.
DA - Monks in space

Everyone has a favorite and therefore a reason to dislike another chapter. Personnally I like dark angels (other than their lame codex).

Ultramarines are infact quite powerful for their ability. (appro po - it is the ability to run away... Sorry couldn't help myself.) They are a nasty army to face. The part that bothers me is the Wardism - that every marine aspires to be an Ultramarine while all the fluff seems to make them appear to be overbearing (hello, you guys all fought the great insurrection but I know whats best for all of you.) incompetent ( they don't seem to win many battles and seem to get their buts pulled out of the flames by some other chapter) or very manipulative ( it is amazing how many of the major battles chronicled have the Ultras conveniently on the other side of the galaxy). My conclusion is that Ultramarines true specialization is in propaganda while the other chapters shed blood for the Imperium.

**Lynata**

Manchu wrote:
htj wrote:they don't have a gimmick
Yes, I think that is a big part of this. We've got wolf marines, vamp marines, emo marines, etc, etc, and UM are perceived as just marine marines. Personally, I still find the concept of Space Marines pretty interesting in itself. I don't need them to be genetically enhanced super warrior-monks and wear dresses and (as someone hilariously put it ITT) write sad poetry in order to find them cool.

Indeed. Childish rebel behaviour in particular has gotten so ridiculously OTT and in utter neglect of the IoM's oppressive nature that the Ultramarines now seem unique just because they are the only ones still adhering to some sort of norm and not try to break the system in some angle. I just don't get why "trying to fit in" is regarded as such a negative thing these days. Feels like people picked the wrong faction if all they wanted is to express their precious individuality and love of freedom.

**curran12**

In response to the people saying "I hate Ultramarines because they are always portrayed as the best":

Where?

No I'm serious, where is that done? In the fluff? Not really, at least no more than any other chapter. Online? Nope. In stores?

**Steelmage99**

Manchu wrote:
Steelmage99 wrote:not to be taken overly serious.
But you seem to take it as a serious argument, looking at the rest of your post. For example, you say the UM did nothing to defend the Imperium -- and that is blatantly false.

No, I merely responded in kind.

To make things perfectly clear; nothing should be taken too seriously. Not fluff, not the internet and certainly not 4chan.

**Eidolon**

Lynata wrote:
Manchu wrote:
htj wrote:they don't have a gimmick
Yes, I think that is a big part of this. We've got wolf marines, vamp marines, emo marines, etc, etc, and UM are perceived as just marine marines. Personally, I still find the concept of Space Marines pretty interesting in itself. I don't need them to be genetically enhanced super warrior-monks and wear dresses and (as someone hilariously put it ITT) write sad poetry in order to find them cool.
Indeed. Childish rebel behaviour in particular has gotten so ridiculously OTT and in utter neglect of the IoM's oppressive nature that the Ultramarines now seem unique just because they are the only ones still adhering to some sort of norm and not try to break the system in some angle. I just don't get why "trying to fit in" is regarded as such a negative thing these days. Feels like people picked the wrong faction if all they wanted is to express their precious individuality and love of freedom.

Its like I said. That guy in high school who was good at sports, got the girls, and dressed well was HATED by the neckbeards. Ultramarines represent this, some kind of normal person being successful, and thats why I think they get people going out of their way to hate.

**Manchu**

Lynata wrote:Feels like people picked the wrong faction if all they wanted is to express their precious individuality and love of freedom.

That's where the SW come in ... gah. A lot of the hatred thrown at the UM is actually deserved by the SW. I say that as a SW fan, as well. (Although, TBF, there's no faction in 40k that I dislike much less hate.)

**Engine of War**

I honestly belive its a combonation of a few things.

They are practically always winning even in rediculous ways (1 ultra marine vs X large number of orks and he wins alone), They can't loose (and i can't find any reference to them loosing outside of the board battlefield). heck even the video game Space marine could have had you play any space marine chapter but obviously the player played as the Ultramarines and is capable of singlehandedly annialating legions of Orks, Demons and even a CHaoslord ALONE.

They are te poster boys of GW and whenever you see a poster, addvertisement or whatever its got a bright blue space marine enblazoned on it. Over exposure to the boys in blue causes another part of the resentment.

amoung other reasons.

honestly i don't care, about the blue boys. i just find all space marines arrogant and glory hounds. but i refer to it all as a joke.

**DarthOvious**

Steelmage99 wrote:Circa M29: The Unification Wars.
The Emperor of Mankind unites Terra, and sets off to conquer the stars in a series of violent and bloody battles. The Ultramarines’ Primarch, Roboute Guilliman , is conveniently located on the other side of the galaxy when this occurs.

012.M31-014.M31: The Horus Heresy.
Under the leadership of Warmaster Horus of the Sons of Horus, the traitors turn on their fellow Legions, causing serious losses. The Salamanders, Iron Hands, and Raven Guard are nearly destroyed including the death of Primarch Ferrus Manus and the disappearance of Primarch Vulkan, the Dark Angels lose their homeworld and possibly their Primarch Lion El'Jonson while the Space Wolves are bogged down in a protracted battle with the Thousand Sons. Only the Blood Angels, Imperial Fists, and White Scars are able to return before the traitors lay Siege to Holy Terra, where they take serious losses (including the death of Primarch Sanguinius). The Emperor defeats Horus, causing the traitors to scatter, but is crippled and forced to ascend the Golden Throne. The Ultramarines are conveniently located on the other side of the galaxy when this occurs. After the Heresy, Rowboat Girlyman formed the High Lords of Terra and created the Codex Astartes. Note that the Ultramarines didn't participate in the defense of Terra, didn't sustain crippling damage to their Chapter's manpower, and note that, best of all, when they arrived they were too fething late. The war was already won, yet their primarch still was the first to create the new rules.

546.M32: 'The Beheading':
The High Lords of Terra are all slain on the orders of Drakan Vangorich, Grand Master of the Officio Assassinorum. The rogue Master of Assassins is tracked down and slain by a Space Marine strikeforce drawn from the Imperial Fists, Halo Brethren and Sable Swords. Of over a thousand men deployed, only a single Space Marine survives the campaign. The Ultramarines are conveniently located on the other side of the galaxy when this occurs.

843.M35: Distress call from Grendel's World investigated.
Planet discovered to have been attacked and all inhabitants slain by terror tactics of the Night Lords. The Ultramarines are conveniently located on the other side of the galaxy when this occurs.

Early M36: The Age of Apostasy and the Reign of Blood begin.
Warp storms increase dramatically and Chaos and Ork attacks multiply. The Imperium falls into turmoil. An empowered Ecclesiarchy becomes more tyrannical. High Lord Goge Vandire, Master of the Administratum, assumes the post of Ecclesiarch, becomes the most powerful member of the Senate of the High Lords of Terra, and manipulates a small sect, the Daughters of the Emperor (today the Sisters of Battle), into becoming his personal bodyguards, the Brides of the Emperor. Vandire rules largely unopposed and becomes more and more bloody and tyrannical. Zhoros, homeworld of the Fire Hawks' chapter, is thermal bombed. The Ultramarines are conveniently located on the other side of the galaxy when this occurs.

266.M36: Sebastian Thor is born on Dimmamar.
He eventually becomes a threat to Vandire, who sends the Frateris Templar fleet to destroy Dimmamar. The fleet is completely destroyed by a warp storm, still in existence today, named the Storm of the Emperor's Wrath in the Clax system. Vandire's armies are finally defeated by combined forces of the Tech Guard and several chapters of Space Marines, organized under the banner of the Confederation of Light, led by Thor. Vandire is executed by Alicia Dominica, the leader of his own bodyguards, who reclaim their old name Daughters of the Emperor in a conspiracy involving the Adeptus Custodes and the Emperor himself. The Ultramarines are conveniently located on the other side of the galaxy when this occurs.

723.M36: The 5th Black Crusade begins.
Doombreed, a deamon prince of Khorne, declares war on the Adeptus Astartes. The Warhawks and the Venerators are lost. The Ultramarines are conveniently located on the other side of the galaxy when this occurs.

995.M40-000.M41 The Macharian Crusades.
Macharius, Lord Commander of the Segmentum Solar, sets out to reconquer the Segmentum Pacificus for the Imperium. The Ultramarines are conveniently located on the other side of the galaxy when this occurs.

444.M41: First War for Armageddon.
Chaos incursion led by Angron and his World Eaters beaten back by the Space Wolves and Grey Knights but only at a terrible cost. Only about a dozen of the Grey Knights survive the battle with Angron. The local planetary militia and the other citizens are mind-wiped, sterilized and put into work camps, to slave away for the rest of their short, miserable lives much to the horror of Logan Grimnar. The Ultramarines are conveniently located on the other side of the galaxy when this occurs.

742.M41 Damocles Crusade is launched against the Tau Empire
, due to the Imperium's ever growing Xenophobia, a small, strategically insignificant piece of nothingness, inhabited by weak fish people with minimal Faster-Than-Light Technology. The Ultramarines are thoroughly defeated along with the rest of the Imperial forces. Those "aberrations" known as the Black Templars come in and beat the hell out of the Tau after the Ultramarines leave for the...

745.M41: First Tyrannic War.
Hive Fleet Behemoth attacks the Ultramarines' homeworld, Macragge. Most of the chapter is eaten by Nids and lose their entire 1st company, the Chapter's company of hardened veterans and Terminators. The second fight they get and they still blew it, lulz.

754-775.M41: Sabbat Worlds Crusade.
The Imperium deploys a massive force under Warmaster Slaydo to retake the Sabbat Worlds from the forces of Chaos. Several Space Marine chapters participate, including the White Scars and those "aberrations" called the Raven Guard and the Imperial Fists, eventually succeeding in driving Chaos from the sector. The Ultramarines are conveniently located on the other side of the galaxy when this occurs.

897.M41: Battle of Sanctuary 101.
The Necrons attack the Adepta Sororitas at the fortress-convent of Sanctuary 101, with every sister slaughtered to the last woman, marking first contact between the Imperium and the Necrons. The Ultramarines are conveniently located on the other side of the galaxy when this occurs.

901-912.M41 Badab War.
The Astral Claws, Lamenters, Executioners, and Mantis Warriors chapters rebel against the Imperium, and are defeated by loyalist chapters. The Ultramarines are conveniently located on the other side of the galaxy when this occurs.

941-942.M41: Second War for Armageddon.
The Ultramarines bump into Waaagh! Ghazghull while running away from the Tyranids. They are saved by the timely intervention of Commissar Yarrick and the Blood Angels. Marneus Calgar's first action is to acknowledge Dante as overall commander of the Space Marines on Armageddon.

988.M41: The battle of Rynn's World begins.
A large ork army, led by the Warboss Snagrod, attacks the Crimson Fists and their homeworld. During the battle, a stray missile strikes the Fortress-Monastery of the Crimson Fists, killing most of the Marines. The survivors are severely crippled and are forced to rebuild their chapter. The Ultramarines are conveniently located on the other side of the galaxy when this occurs.

757998.M41: The Third War for Armageddon begins.
Having learned from past mistakes, Imperial Commanders commit a ridiculous amount of forces to hold the world. It drags on for months in a bloody stalemate until Ghazghull grows bored and leaves his generals to finish the fight while he goes looking for other worlds to conquer. Commissar Yarrick joins a Black Templars Crusade and gives chase. The Ultramarines are conveniently located on the other side of the galaxy when this occurs.

5999.M41: Warmaster Abaddon launches the 13th Black Crusade.
The armies of Chaos Undivided lay siege primarily to Cadia but attack many of the surrounding worlds as well. Imperial Forces launch a massive counterattack, and eventually push back the tides of Chaos, but only just barely, and at great cost. The Space Wolves' 13th Company are amongst the forces seen fighting against the forces of Chaos. The Ultramarines were apparently man enough to get into the fighting... by offering some honor guard units that barely made up half a company. Yes, we're facepalming with you too.

I like the way it needs to be stated where the Ultramarines are when these events that have nothing to do with them happen. Can we also add in at each line "The Blood Angels are conveniently located on the other side of the galaxy when this occurs"?

**Razgryz**

Its because Ultramarines toe the line of being complete Mary Sue's. They are toted as the end-all-be-all of Marines, they are perfect in battle, they are perfect out of battle, etc. People are just tired of hearing about them, when there are a thousand other chapters out there with little to no story or history.

As a solid BT player and fan, I feel that the BT actually personify the TRUE goals and aspirations of the Imperium, namely the extermination of all Alien, Mutant or Heretic in the galaxy. The Ultrasmurfs are too lenient, too willing to compromise and too hidebound with their codex to truly lead humanity to its destiny.

**Lynata**

Razgryz wrote:Its because Ultramarines toe the line of being complete Mary Sue's.

Yet other Chapters have crossed that line and don't receive nearly as much dislike. Can't be the only reason.

In fact, I'm fairly sure that this supposed "perfection" is not an accurate portrayal of their description but overexaggeration to make them look worse. They sure as warp didn't seem "perfect" to me - just normal, which is apparently a bad thing for Marines.

**Vaktathi**

Anything that's portrayed as simply better than it's equivalents purely for it's own sake, wreathed in simple bright colors and never loses while always being "the good guy", it's difficult to take such a character/factions seriously. They aren't interesting, and they come off as projections of the writers. Superman as an IP has the same issue and has been declining drastically in popularity for decades.

Lynata wrote:
Razgryz wrote:Its because Ultramarines toe the line of being complete Mary Sue's.
Yet other Chapters have crossed that line and don't receive nearly as much dislike. Can't be the only reason.

I take if you haven't kept up with people's attitudes on Space Wolves then for the last 3 years have you?

**DeffDred**

"Do not worry, brother. Haters gonna hate."

**Wardragoon**

goundry wrote:

so do we now need to get the ultramarine time line out and show how often space wolve blood angels and dark angels were on the other side of the galaxy and didn't get involved?

I just want to point out Gav Thorpe has already put up doubts for the old dark angels loyalties.

**Lynata**

Vaktathi wrote:I take if you haven't kept up with people's attitudes on Space Wolves then for the last 3 years have you?

They haven't yet surpassed people's attitudes on the Ultras, that's what I mean.

**Vaktathi**

Hrm, I dunno about that, the awful writing of the current codex (firing artillery by smell...) and bandwagon tidal-wave of "counts-as" wolves has made them a pretty touch subject. I at least see them coming up a lot more than the Ultra's hate these days, primarily due to the bandwagon tide the SW codex is still riding.

**RicBlasko**

I said it once, and I will say it again. UltraMarines in 40K = John Cena in WWE. Like John Cena can win a match while knocked out, 2 on 1, 3 on 1, Hardcore, Last man Standing, ect, ect. It gets old.
Ultramarines get to not show up when Terra is attacked, bosses everyone else around like a bully, and when they dont back down has their ships attacked (Imperal Fists) then go back to their own little slice of space, and lets the other chapters have a ship or small world of their own.
Crimson Fists, Imperal Fists, Black Templars..these are chapters I like (even the ones that now follow the codex, they are just better Marines)
I like the fact back in Chapter Approved you could play White Scares as a whole bike army, and that was something different for JUST them. And Imperal Fists were a seig army, and the Night Lords were a suprise attack army. Now because they were different, I liked the idea of fighting to win...Ultramarines...are sheep...everyone has to wear their Gap pants and Amercombi shirts and march lock stepped...and then to make it worse....all new chapters have to be Ultramarine off shoots...