12-year-old cyber-bully victim commits suicide

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**Seaward**

"Adult bullying." You learn something new and ludicrous every day.

**motyak**

Alfndrate wrote:
Firehead158 wrote:
Now, this is the other side of Firehead:

Are you kidding me? Someone bullied you... on the internet, and you smoked yourself? Thats stupid. I really do feel bad for the parents, but its not like you were physically assaulted every day. Can't handle someone talking trash behind a keyboard? You're going to have a rough time in the real world. I'd much rather see someone who is bullied take a bat to their "assailants", then to kill themselves. What have we as Americans come to? Start standing up for yourselves. We all had to deal with bullies, and there isn't a single one I haven't stood up to. Maybe its just the way I was raised. This is the pussification of Americans. RIP little lady, the rest of you need to stop being such cowards.

(yes please tell me why I'm wrong now)

Huh, we've been Ehrenstein'd on the first page...

It's a terrible shame this little girl died because her peers are idiots and don't know how to be civil human beings

Come on alf, while that was bad it was hardly an Ehrenstein. For one, there were no Nazis.

**Ouze**

Yet.

**Alfndrate**

motyak wrote:
Come on alf, while that was bad it was hardly an Ehrenstein. For one, there were no Nazis.

I guess :-\ I still think that trying to argue with that poster would be arguing with crazy, which is what Ehrenstein's law is.

**Frankenberry**

Man, this sucks, such a waste of life.

Now all we need to do is wait for the "ban the internet" policies that I'm sure will appear.

**Alfndrate**

Frankenberry wrote:
Man, this sucks, such a waste of life.

Now all we need to do is wait for the "ban the internet" policies that I'm sure will appear.

No, that won't happen because unlike guns people are a little more level headed in our country. They will seek to advocate against bullying, do a PSA, and say we need to stop it, but offer no real solutions.

The best way to stop bullying is to teach kids to develop positive coping methods, suicide is a coping method... It's a terrible coping method, but it is one.

**Seaward**

Nah. I vote we send every 10 year-old in America to a modified version of SERE.

**sebster**

cincydooley wrote:
Link, por favor?

CPA study case. I could get the name of article writer, if you're that interested. Or you could just go and find one of the hundreds of reported cases available through your nearest google machine. Seriously, being amazed at the existance of workplace bullying is like being amazed at the existance of risk management. They're so discussed they're basically cliche.

At any corporation with said autonomous HR division, It literally could not happen. For this very reason.

Autonomous HR is a bit like the perfect market. It's nice to aim for it, and the closer we get the better, but it will never exist in its pure state, and you'd be a damn fool if you just wander about relying on it.

Yes. Seems like a pretty amiable solution to me.

Yes, because of the awareness of workplace bullying in courts.. Which is the point.

Scientology has 2100 hits. Astrology has 37000. Jussayin.

Yeah, and I'd be dumbfounded to learn there's someone out there who didn't know they existed. Just saying.

**Forar**

Seaward wrote:
"Adult bullying." You learn something new and ludicrous every day.

I'm learning all kinds of things today.

The first one being that the US military's suicide rate went up 15% in 2012.

It'd be really callous of me to say something like "wow, guess even hardened individuals who've seen combat need to grow a thicker skin, since relationship problems seem to be one of the top issues reported. Yeah, yeah, strain of combat, separation from family and loved ones, horrible sights and situations, but if hundreds of thousands of others make it through just fine, I guess those 300-400 per year were just sissies", right?

Or maybe mental health issues are a massive elephant in the room, and instead of belittling those who need help and are failed by those around them (the system, their teachers, their parents, their friends, whomever), we should take a step back and ask what can be done to stem the loss of life? Children are gakheads, no doubt about it. We all made it through elementary and high school with our own scars, mental and physical alike. That doesn't mean these kids aren't suffering in ways we can't even dream of, nor that we need to make it some kind of competition. People deal with the same stimuli differently, that doesn't make them wrong or bad or broken, it makes them human. The absolute crappiest day you've ever had, when you were at your absolute lowest, is just another day that ends in Y to someone else out there. And similarly, a 'meh' day for you might be one that another person would consider ending it all over.

**Ouze**

Wow, Forar.... well said. Have an exalt.

**Seaward**

Forar wrote:
Seaward wrote:
"Adult bullying." You learn something new and ludicrous every day.

I'm learning all kinds of things today.

The first one being that the US military's suicide rate went up 15% in 2012.

It'd be really callous of me to say something like "wow, guess even hardened individuals who've seen combat need to grow a thicker skin, since relationship problems seem to be one of the top issues reported. Yeah, yeah, strain of combat, separation from family and loved ones, horrible sights and situations, but if hundreds of thousands of others make it through just fine, I guess those 300-400 per year were just sissies", right?

Relationship issues is one of the top ones reported, eh? Where's "adult bullying" come in?

**scarletsquig**

There's a distinct lack of being able to see things from another person's perspective in this thread.

The "get thicker skin, sissy" thing is the most useless bit of advice anyone can offer. I got that from my Dad when I was being bullied, he generally just advised me "go thump em", and was completely useless, not bothering to spend a second of time taking the concerns seriously, or even think about the practicalities/ consequences of actually doing so.

Never mind that I'm extremely slim-built, and the bullies in question were a gang of knife-weilding chavs (all expelled from school a long time ago) in an area of urban decay who would attack on sight.

Never mind that I'd seen someone else retaliate the previous year against the same people, he ended up with concussion, detached retinas and a 6-inch scar across his scalp.

I essentially viewed them as a pack of feral dogs, only more dangerous.

In the end it came down to my mother to offer some practical help in terms of:

a) Taxi to and from school. I didn't leave the house other than for school.
b) Moving the feth out of the godforsaken chav-infested craphole we were living in as soon as I turned 16. Moved to a different place, where I was totally happy and surprised to discover that people are actually quite nice and decent towards me and like me... which completely fixed any lingering doubts I might have had that I was to blame.

If you have kids that are being bullied, actually DO something, don't just give them some high and mighty pep-talk about how hard it was back in your day and to stop being a baby. It should be plainly blatantly obvious how that will come across to the kid, they will feel like it's "their fault" for not being tough enough if you start saying crap like that.

The realities of school life are a lot more brutal than you might realise, especially if you're living in a heavily urbanised or deprived area. I mostly learnt nothing from high school and the teachers in classes were primarily pre-occupied with trying to get the pupils to stop throwing chairs across the room for 5 minutes so they could make an attempt at teaching something. It was more like a zoo than a school, everything I learnt was from books.

**reds8n**

http://www.ibtimes.com/danny-chen-suicide-8-army-soldiers-charged-racial-bullying-video-386630

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2009/08/private_keiffer_wilhelm_of_ohi.html

**Alfndrate**

I remember that second story, he was about my age.

**Seaward**

reds8n wrote:
http://www.ibtimes.com/danny-chen-suicide-8-army-soldiers-charged-racial-bullying-video-386630

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2009/08/private_keiffer_wilhelm_of_ohi.html

So your contention is it's two?

The reason I asked, of course, is because saying, "Hey, military suicide rates went up, 'adult bullying' is a problem!" is more than a tad disingenuous when you admit in the very same sentence that relationship issues were the top reason rather than, you know, 'adult bullying.'

But you knew that already.

**PhantomViper**

scarletsquig wrote:
There's a distinct lack of being able to see things from another person's perspective in this thread.

The "get thicker skin, sissy" thing is the most useless bit of advice anyone can offer. I got that from my Dad when I was being bullied, he generally just advised me "go thump em", and was completely useless, not bothering to spend a second of time taking the concerns seriously, or even think about the practicalities/ consequences of actually doing so.

Never mind that I'm extremely slim-built, and the bullies in question were a gang of knife-weilding chavs (all expelled from school a long time ago) in an area of urban decay who would attack on sight.

Never mind that I'd seen someone else retaliate the previous year against the same people, he ended up with concussion, detached retinas and a 6-inch scar across his scalp.

I essentially viewed them as a pack of feral dogs, only more dangerous.

In the end it came down to my mother to offer some practical help in terms of:

a) Taxi to and from school. I didn't leave the house other than for school.
b) Moving the feth out of the godforsaken chav-infested craphole we were living in as soon as I turned 16. Moved to a different place, where I was totally happy and surprised to discover that people are actually quite nice and decent towards me and like me... which completely fixed any lingering doubts I might have had that I was to blame.

If you have kids that are being bullied, actually DO something, don't just give them some high and mighty pep-talk about how hard it was back in your day and to stop being a baby. It should be plainly blatantly obvious how that will come across to the kid, they will feel like it's "their fault" for not being tough enough if you start saying crap like that.

The realities of school life are a lot more brutal than you might realise, especially if you're living in a heavily urbanised or deprived area. I mostly learnt nothing from high school and the teachers in classes were primarily pre-occupied with trying to get the pupils to stop throwing chairs across the room for 5 minutes so they could make an attempt at teaching something. It was more like a zoo than a school, everything I learnt was from books.

That is not bullying, that is criminal assault and what you should have done, and mainly what your parents should have done is report them to the cops, I feel sorry if when faced with the treat of armed assault all your mother and father had to offer was "get a cab" and "hit them back", those sound like some lousy parents.

**KalashnikovMarine**

Forar wrote:
Seaward wrote:
"Adult bullying." You learn something new and ludicrous every day.

I'm learning all kinds of things today.

The first one being that the US military's suicide rate went up 15% in 2012.

It'd be really callous of me to say something like "wow, guess even hardened individuals who've seen combat need to grow a thicker skin, since relationship problems seem to be one of the top issues reported. Yeah, yeah, strain of combat, separation from family and loved ones, horrible sights and situations, but if hundreds of thousands of others make it through just fine, I guess those 300-400 per year were just sissies", right?

Or maybe mental health issues are a massive elephant in the room, and instead of belittling those who need help and are failed by those around them (the system, their teachers, their parents, their friends, whomever), we should take a step back and ask what can be done to stem the loss of life? Children are gakheads, no doubt about it. We all made it through elementary and high school with our own scars, mental and physical alike. That doesn't mean these kids aren't suffering in ways we can't even dream of, nor that we need to make it some kind of competition. People deal with the same stimuli differently, that doesn't make them wrong or bad or broken, it makes them human. The absolute crappiest day you've ever had, when you were at your absolute lowest, is just another day that ends in Y to someone else out there. And similarly, a 'meh' day for you might be one that another person would consider ending it all over.

22 Veterans a day suicide. I don't remember the rate for active duty, but it's high.

**reds8n**

No, my contention is that bullying can, has and does have a part to play in some cases.

The reason I asked, of course, is because saying, "Hey, military suicide rates went up, 'adult bullying' is a problem!" is more than a tad disingenuous when you admit in the very same sentence that relationship issues were the top reason rather than, you know, 'adult bullying.'

But you knew that already.

I've said nothing of the sort.

I'd suggest rereading who said what

**Seaward**

KalashnikovMarine wrote:
22 Veterans a day suicide. I don't remember the rate for active duty, but it's high.

High compared to what? There were 349 total active duty suicides last year, which is tragic, but as a percentage, not terribly up there. It's 0.02%.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

reds8n wrote:
No, my contention is that bullying can, has and does have a part to play in some cases.

The reason I asked, of course, is because saying, "Hey, military suicide rates went up, 'adult bullying' is a problem!" is more than a tad disingenuous when you admit in the very same sentence that relationship issues were the top reason rather than, you know, 'adult bullying.'

But you knew that already.

I've said nothing of the sort.

I'd suggest rereading who said what

I did. I assumed by offering a grand total of two examples, you were standing in support of the original argument.

If not, I'm glad we're in agreement.

**KalashnikovMarine**

Seaward wrote:
KalashnikovMarine wrote:
22 Veterans a day suicide. I don't remember the rate for active duty, but it's high.

High compared to what? There were 349 total active duty suicides last year, which is tragic, but as a percentage, not terribly up there. It's 0.02%.

Compared to the rest of the American population the military and veterans are an extremely at risk category. Personally I don't know about you and how you do things in the Navy, but losing just one we don't have to is too damn many. Maybe it's an officer thing.

**Captain Fantastic**

I'd like to use words like "weak" and "pathetic", but I consider suicide on an hourly basis for no other reason than to end the monotony and boredom of daily life, so I'm in no position to talk.

Suicide really isn't a hard decision. When that's where your mind is, you can rationalize any repercussions you might think up, or wipe your regret beforehand. It's sad, but that's how it goes. I don't think these kids really realize how much their death impacts those around them.

I blame evolution. We've become smart enough to decide when to voluntarily end our lives. It makes me wonder about our higher purpose, and other things.

**Jihadin**

The US Military’s suicide rate grew a startling 15 percent in 2012. The Pentagon, which has put great effort into lowering military suicide rates, has acknowledged that battle casualties are no longer the primary reason for soldiers’ deaths.

Modern US warfare is Internet-centric and relies heavily on drones and robots, which has helped bring combat losses to historic lows; suicide now accounts for more deaths of US soldiers than battlefield conflict.

The official website of the US Department of Defense has published preliminary reports of at least 177 potential active-duty suicides and 126 potential non-active-duty suicides in 2012. The report reveals a marked surge in suicides since 2011, when 165 confirmed active-duty and 118 non-active-duty suicides were registered.

In all, 349 servicemembers in all branches of the US Military committed suicide in 2012, up 15 percent from 301 suicides in the military in 2011, AP reported, citing a Pentagon source. The number of US Military suicides in 2012 exceeded the total combat fatalities in Afghanistan in 2012, which the AP calculated at 295 deaths.

Reports on US military suicides have revealed that the US Army, the largest body within the US military (around 562,000 personnel), has the highest number and rate of military suicides: Over 32 per 100,000 troops.

The US Marines Corps (over 202,000 personnel) was second with nearly 24 suicides per 100,000 troops. The US Navy (around 323,000 personnel) and US Air Force (around 330,000 personnel) have practically identical suicide rates of 18 per 100,000 troops.

US military suicide rate 2012

US Army – 182 suicides
US Marines Corps – 48 suicides
US Navy – 60 suicides
US Air Force – 59 suicides

The average suicide rate in the US military – 24 suicides per 100,000 soldiers – is lower than the civilian suicide rate for men aged 17 to 60 – 25 suicides per 100,000 in 2010.

The latest US military suicide statistics for 2011 suggest that a suicidal soldier is usually an unmarried white man under the age of 25, recently enlisted and with less than a college education. Around 60 percent of military suicides are committed with firearms, though in most cases the guns are personally owned, not military-issued.

The Pentagon has instated several measures in a bid to curb the rising number of suicides. For example, soldiers and their family members can receive professional psychological help from the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline, where “trained consultants are available 24 hours a day, seven days a week, 365 days a year.”

The US Army sponsors research into medications to prevent suicides, such as a nasal spray that eliminates suicidal thoughts. But despite these breakthroughs, the problem has continued to grow.

David Rudd, a military suicide researcher and dean of the College of Social and Behavioral Sciences at the University of Utah, told AP that he is not optimistic about further anti-suicide developments. “Actually, we may continue to see increases,” Rudd explained, adding that Iraq and Afghanistan war veterans commit suicides because of PTSD, depression, alcohol and substance abuse, while those not deployed take their lives because of problems with relationships, finances or the law.

The suicide rate among veterans vastly exceeds that of active-duty troops. According to estimates last year by the US Department of Veterans’ Affairs, a US military veteran commits suicide every 80 minutes – totaling 18 veterans a day.

In 2010, the Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America nonprofit reported that veterans account for 20 percent of the 30,000 annual US suicides, though only 1 percent of Americans have served in the military.

“Despite the increased efforts, the increased attention, the trends continue to move in a troubling and tragic direction,” Defense Secretary Leon Panetta acknowledged at a joint suicide prevention conference between the Pentagon and Department of Veterans’ Affairs in June 2012.

Should have posted the article.

**reds8n**

I'm sure there are other examples.

As to the %s involved I've no idea.

One would imagine that the tasks, sights etc that people suffer through and things like the affect of distance on relationships and so forth would be responsible for the greatest % of difficulties.

But that doesn't mean it's not an issue. hence why they have all those anti hazing policies and the like.

Mr. Phantom Viper stop spamming the thread with off topic stuff.

**Seaward**

KalashnikovMarine wrote:
Compared to the rest of the American population the military and veterans are an extremely at risk category. Personally I don't know about you and how you do things in the Navy, but losing just one we don't have to is too damn many. Maybe it's an officer thing.

It's not an "officer thing." It's simply disagreeing that the active duty suicide rate is particularly high. It's quite low, compared to the civilian rate.

**d-usa**

This thread makes pretty clear that there are a number of people that are just not worth listening to.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Seaward wrote:
KalashnikovMarine wrote:
Compared to the rest of the American population the military and veterans are an extremely at risk category. Personally I don't know about you and how you do things in the Navy, but losing just one we don't have to is too damn many. Maybe it's an officer thing.

It's not an "officer thing." It's simply disagreeing that the active duty suicide rate is particularly high. It's quite low, compared to the civilian rate.

The veteran rate is twice as high as the civilian rate.

**Alfndrate**

d-usa wrote:
This thread makes pretty clear that there are a number of people that are just not worth listening to.

Oh... I'm sorry d-usa

I'll go back to my corner.

**Seaward**

d-usa wrote:
This thread makes pretty clear that there are a number of people that are just not worth listening to.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Seaward wrote:
KalashnikovMarine wrote:
Compared to the rest of the American population the military and veterans are an extremely at risk category. Personally I don't know about you and how you do things in the Navy, but losing just one we don't have to is too damn many. Maybe it's an officer thing.

It's not an "officer thing." It's simply disagreeing that the active duty suicide rate is particularly high. It's quite low, compared to the civilian rate.

The veteran rate is twice as high as the civilian rate.

But the active duty rate is lower.

Tell me where the breakdown in comprehension's occurring and I'll do my best to explain. All veterans are not currently active duty, for one thing. I was simply disagreeing that the active duty rate is particularly high. If you've numbers to the contrary, you're more than welcome to provide them.

**Ahtman**

If you parse that down even more to only the active duty who have never committed or attempted suicide that number drops even more.

**Seaward**

Ahtman wrote:
If you parse that down even more to only the active duty who have never committed or attempted suicide that number drops even more.

Undoubtedly.

But let's look at this another way. Let's pretend someone said that suicide rates among the elderly were high. You had numbers suggesting they were actually quite low, and said as much. Suppose then that I came into the thread and said, "Actually, suicide rates among Americans are quite high." That may very well be true, but it's not what was initially being argued.

Regardless, something tells me that not a lot of those discharged veteran suicides are due to 'adult bullying,' which makes the entire tangent irrelevant. Which guarantees it'll be chased for another day or two.

**Jihadin**

I've an appointment to hit up but I want to see where the military topic of suicide leads to. Just want to see what is everyone perception is first.

Red I get back to you on the hazing. I blame the USMC Recon for that exposure. When some of the members came back from Airborne school at Ft Benning GA and got "Cherry Blasted"