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@clockworkzion & lynata: Well you do seem to make some good points. Yeah she was a product of her time. I still am of the belief 'badassery' is not good most of the time. While we're at it being confident doesn't equal instantly knowing more. Sometimes knowing more leads to confidence but to always be confident even in things you aren't good at or don't know is dangerous.

I suppose it's somewhat true what you guys say about preventing all retaliation but I just watched 'ender's game' and in the movie (based off the book) they said the exact same thing (which makes me wonder if you saw or read it). They wanted to make sure there'd be no further attacks as a justification for what they did. In the end this means beating somebody into a coma or committing mass genocide. My problem is it's a horrible justification for one's actions esp. given the results. Sure I understand this is like 'ender's game' with that saint and it could be understood but ender completely regrets what he did whereas she does not and this was a race as alien as they can get with a much greater threat happening. Then again it is a work of fiction which is important to state so whatever I can't really compare it. My point though is that destroying this city could've made enemies out of other people or quite possibly ended like real life examples in ender's game. If you make friends and allies of people you can work together better but if you make enemies and are too proud of yourself you end up losing.

I always imagined the canoness had access to much better weapons than the space marines if we're going for holy wards and etc. I have to wonder though as if we're going by faith powers then the sisters could be stronger and have some sort of faith weapons that works against daemons better or some sort of holy version of a daemonsword.

I have read Ender's Game actually. The thing is that I am not applying our ethics to the actions of St. Olga. The thing is that you're looking at her actions relative to what you believe to be ethical or moral. It's hardly fair to do so when she lived long before the things that let you judge things against that ethical yardstick.

flamingkillamajig wrote:I always imagined the canoness had access to much better weapons than the space marines if we're going for holy wards and etc. I have to wonder though as if we're going by faith powers then the sisters could be stronger and have some sort of faith weapons that works against daemons better or some sort of holy version of a daemonsword.

Daemons are products of the Warp and thus subject to emotion and willpower directed at them (both having positive or negative effects on their manifestation) - so in a way, faith can be a potent weapon against daemons, and the Sisters now have Adamantium Will to represent their resilience against psychic intrusion. Some relics might even sport a sort "psychic imprint" by whoever used to wield them before and died with it in their hands, instinctively recognised and reacted to by a daemonic foe, whilst others may depend entirely on whether or not the wielder believes in their power (kind of like Ork tech only works because they think it should ).

An example would be the Blade of St. Joachim "currently" (at the end of 999.M41) in the possession of Sister Rosetta Anastasia, the Vision-Hunter - its profile in GW's Inquisitor RPG gave the weapon a 20% parry bonus against daemonic enemies.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
I have read Ender's Game actually. The thing is that I am not applying our ethics to the actions of St. Olga. The thing is that you're looking at her actions relative to what you believe to be ethical or moral. It's hardly fair to do so when she lived long before the things that let you judge things against that ethical yardstick.

I understand completely. I'm sure you're right too. I just think it seems really terrible. Sure it was a different time under different circumstances and I don't fully know them and probably shouldn't judge them but if something like that happened today I can only wish people would take the more peaceful approach to it or at least limited violence approach.

This is probably way off that topic even but still nice to discuss. Honestly even these days we still basically go on witch hunts for certain types of people (pedophiles, celebrities, politicians, suspected criminals etc.). I had an interesting discussion about that and the previous thing I mentioned with a friend. I find it hard to believe some people can hate others even without having met them. I know you guys will kill me to say it but one example is matt ward. You don't know him personally and probably never will yet he receives so much hate. I dunno people like to demonize things. Maybe it's less about justice and more about revenge. Then there's the problem with people not realizing that we send people to jail or prison based on what we think they did beyond a reasonable doubt (at least in the U.S.) but what bothers me is sometimes people are blamed for things that had nothing to do with it. Demonizing an innocent is much worse and this is where we get into the title of it being a 'witch hunt'.

Flaming, my friend, you raise a lot of interesting points but we've gone far astray from the OP. Please let's try to crawl back on topic here.... Thanks.

Sorry about that.

Perhaps she has a halo of some sort? Does she have a sort of iron halo type thing? It'd make sense if sisters are aesthetically like angels. Dunno how i'd feel about a flying canoness. Perhaps she should have a flaming sword or something.

That's a thought... "Iron Halo" seems to be an Astartes trademark, but a lot of Sororitas are depicted with something similar in the artwork even though the rules say they get a 4++ force field from a Rosarius instead.

Anyone know what the Sororitas halo thing is? Maybe we can invent a Fiery Halo of Saint Katharine relic that boosts friendly leadership while demoralizing the for...

I'm fairly sure Celestine was the first to sport an artificial halo stuck to her armour. Marine armies absorbing stylistic elements from the Sororitas has been a tradition ever since GW invented Black Templars and Dark Angels.

Technically, it could just be the very same thing, since, y'know, it's all supposed to be ancient tech, and the codices say that the Armour of St. Katherine, to which this halo is attached, confers both the normal as well as a 4++ invul save, just like the Iron Halo does - so it's not something generated by Celestine, and it should work on anyone wearing the armour.

In theory, it's possible that the Sisterhood could have a few more of those lying around.

What about the burned ashes of a dead saint (they get sprinkled around to give boosts to allies or hexes to enemies)? Do you have something like that? Sorry i'm not entirely aware of what the sisters do or don't have.

For me when I imagine sisters their army should be big on buffs and hexes to augment their army as well as good armor and amazing leadership. Oh and a crap ton of flaming weapons.

Ugh if I was more religious or had more knowledge of it then I could give more ideas for you guys but right now it's a bit hard for me to come up with something.

Perhaps something 'flaming dove' related like that one saint you guys spoke of earlier ;P. Lol jesus it's as crazy and insane as the pidgeon bombs for empire in warhammer fantasy.

For sisters if you haven't already said so a faith or re-rollable leadership bubble from leaders or artifacts could be good. So yeah I believe sisters should get a lot more buff-mobiles. Perhaps having a statue of the emperor or martyr (most likely female) being carried around by zealots, fanatics or repentia would be a good idea. That or you could make it shoot faith lasers out of its eyes. Maybe have it so that if any evil is under its gaze it lasers them to ash and dust.

I have a question though. Do the sisters have a sort of hatred of technology just as some imperials do? I'd imagine they probably would and anything high tech is probably out of the question. Still though I imagine their weapons to be effective though probably old and religious. It's hard to say because on one hand I imagine their weapons to be simple and crude but effective and elegant though probably not practical. On the other though that might limit some other ideas and they still have tech somewhat. Doing that would be less cool perhaps. Still think sisters should have motorcycles.

Whoops I guess this is more ideas for the canoness alone though having this added to the canoness shouldn't be too hard. Perhaps a leader could ride on the statue like one of those fantasy chariots or like a transport for a leader. Omg you know what'd be stupid crazy? Having a sort of living statue saint like what was shown in the ghostbusters movie with the statue of liberty post-slime.

I'd also imagine the sisters could get a canoness which hexes the enemy or curses them and then gets to attack them first in duels and hit more frequently while the enemy hits back worse and slower. Something like a WS and I hex/buff.

I'll see if I can come up with any more. For now though I think i'll go to sleep. I'll see you guys and girls later.

Ah, that Living Saint statue idea came up before - I think Troike even posted a picture originating on /tg/.
Matter of preferences, though; for me that's just a bit too outlandish, maybe even narcisstic. Personally, I'd rather have a huge relic on wheels, like that oversized Cross of Jerusalem the crusader army was dragging along its front ranks in the movie "Kingdom of Heaven". Just maybe a huge golden skull instead of a golden cross. And its mouth should shoot a meltabeam, deathstar-style. We could call it "Emperor's Whisper".

For relics, well, we already have Saints' bones in the Simulacrum Imperialis. Technically, one could expand the visual representation to include urns etc, but I wouldn't change anything about the effect, as it would be weird if different remains would cause different things to happen. It may be different forms or shapes, but what creates the effect is the adoration for the person, which is independent from the current state of their body.
A possible solution would be the remains of special Saints who inspire the Sisters to do different things because of what they represent; their deeds and personality as proclaimed by the Ecclesiarchy, kind of like the Founding Saints of the Sisterhood all inspire the Sisters in their Orders to behave slightly differently.

I don't think religious conviction is necessary to come up with cool ideas - just using google or wikipedia to read up on various church traditions is enough, and you can draw a lot of inspiration from movies, other games, or other media.
One idea might also be to take a stroll through the earlier codices:

2E Codex: Sisters of Battle wrote:Phial of Dolan
Anyone who drinks the contents of one of these crystal bottles is filled with the strength and determination of Dolan, the Great Confessor.
The character may drink the contents of the phial at the start of any turn. For the rest of the player's turn the character's Strength and Toughness are increased by D3 each (roll separately) to a maximum of 10.

Tears of the Emperor
There are many stories of statues of the Emperor and other icons of the faith weeping blood-like tears. These tears are collected in ornate crystal bottles, and they are a potent weapon against the forces of Chaos.
The phial can be thrown just like a grenade and uses a 2" blast marker. Any daemon affected takes a wound on a D6 roll of 4+ and receives no saving throw for its daemonic aura.

The "debuff" idea reminds me of the Acts of Faith for Sisters in GW's Inquisitor game, where a Sister's passionate, hateful speech could essentially cause an opponent to hesitate attacking her (losing their major action, with daemons even being stunned for d3 turns due to the Sister's willpower), granting her the initiative, or even unsettle them so much they'd have a penalty in close combat.
One thing I'd personally care about would be not to make things too magical and preserve the ambiguous nature of the Sisters' faith, but that is my bias in favour of GW's continuous hints at Faith being nothing more than a combination of elite training, badass willpower inspired by religious zeal, and coincidence.

As for technology - considering the rather high degree of tech they're equipped with I doubt they would hate it; perhaps just not appreciate it as much as faith and conviction.
I did toy with the idea of some Orders perhaps having a dislike of servitors and bionics/cybernetics, though, given how the Ecclesiarchy preaches about the sanctity of the human form. But that's just me pondering about the Sisters' possible mindsets.

Some great ideas, guys. What you've got me thinking about:

1) a statue of a saint mounted on a vehicle or carried into battle by Sisters, Crusaders, or Redemptionists -- much like the statues of the Virgin and other saints that Italian Catholics in particular carry in processions on holy days. Some kind of Leadership bubble and extra Deny the Witch, with Fear & -1 Ld for foes? Maybe an extra AOF for all Sisters in 6" like Jacobus?

2) ashes or other relics of specific special saints having unique effects beyond a Simulacrum. This would be a great way to implement Order-specific buffs: the "Canoness Retributant" would carry ashes of Arabella, the "Canoness Seraphic" a fingerbone of Silvana, etc, giving their buffs the tantalizing "maybe a miracle, maybe just training & zeal" aspect that Lynata and I like so much.

3) debuffs to demoralize the enemy, yes yes yes. A Laud Hailer used to to do this by penalizing enemy Ld, but you could have a Trumpet of Judgment or something that could lower enemy Ld and/or Initiative -- or make it available as an overwatch weapon and force the enemy to reroll successful charges?

4) Order-specific Relics -- one for each of the Big Six, reflecting the founder's character. We already have Dominica's Sword of Admonition, but what about a blessed heavy bolter used by Arabella or Saint Lucia's eviscerator? (Ok, Celestine appears to have absconded with Katherine's armor but I'm sure St K left something else nasty lying around).

Saint Katherine was famous for three things: Her sword and armour (Celestine has them), being a stubborn little so-and-so, and carrying Alicia's Praesidium Protectiva for her.

So, maybe Dominica's Shield as Katherine's relic?

Oddly, the digital codex says St Celestine's "Armour of Saint Katherine" is named because it was annointed with a vial of Katherine's blood (ick), which implies it isn't the armor Katherine actually wore.... [headscratching]

Yeesh I wish I wasn't coming up with a blank. I think lynata at one point mentioned the holy grail in 'Indiana jones' as inspiration for something. Perhaps a piece from the golden throne of the emperor or some other artifact from him like something he touched whether a weapon or not or perhaps something mundane but symbolic. Yeesh maybe they raid the emperor's stuff. Sounds like the 'sisters' are out of control fan-girls to me ;P.