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2013/11/10 23:10:06
Subject: Re:Discussion of the Aliens, Predator, AvP et al films
Medium of Death wrote: Interesting fact, one of Waylands body guards was going to be Roy Batty, or at least the same model as him. It's 2017 in Blade Runner so that's what, 60+ years before Prometheus?
Apparently Wayland was to acquire the Tyrell Corporation. The events of Blade Runner/Murder of Tyrell could also perhaps explain why Synthetics "blood" is changed to white from the red we see in Blade Runner.
Do Synethics in the Alien series have a life expectancy like they do in Blade Runner?
I think with the bungling of Prometheus I'd like to keep these two universes distinctly apart, as potentially cool as it could be.
Replicants and synthetics are completely different things. Replicants are genetically modified humans, synthetics are robots. If replicants were robots, the Voight-Kampff test wouldn't be necessary.
"When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
-C.S. Lewis
2013/11/11 00:39:34
Subject: Re:Discussion of the Aliens, Predator, AvP et al films
Medium of Death wrote: Interesting fact, one of Waylands body guards was going to be Roy Batty, or at least the same model as him. It's 2017 in Blade Runner so that's what, 60+ years before Prometheus?
Apparently Wayland was to acquire the Tyrell Corporation. The events of Blade Runner/Murder of Tyrell could also perhaps explain why Synthetics "blood" is changed to white from the red we see in Blade Runner.
Do Synethics in the Alien series have a life expectancy like they do in Blade Runner?
I think with the bungling of Prometheus I'd like to keep these two universes distinctly apart, as potentially cool as it could be.
Replicants and synthetics are completely different things. Replicants are genetically modified humans, synthetics are robots. If replicants were robots, the Voight-Kampff test wouldn't be necessary.
Replicants are bio-engineered. They are not modified humans. The are built and we know this because we see the man who grows/builds their eyes. They might not be made of metal but they are definitely not test tube babies. Even the animals, the owl and the snake, and suggested at being built in some way. Barcode within the snake scale.
They are different from Bishop/David/Ash, but I think I'd put them all under the label of Artificial Person myself...
Here's the opening credits that explain what a replicant is.
EDIT:
On another note, that god awful Colonial Marines game has brought Hicks back from the dead in a really stupid way. Apparently that is now official cannon... . The fact that they are back on LV426 after the Atmosphere Processor exploded is just perplexing, that any of the colony survived just seems incredulous. Ridiculous game, ridiculous plot, would happily ignore forever.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/11/11 02:34:26
Alien, Aliens and Predator are all great movies. The rest vary from flawed to unremarkable to downright bad, and are only really remembered at all because they're related to those great movies above.
Alien 3 is the classic example of what happens when a studio starts writing big cheques to lots of very talented people to make a movie, without having any idea what movie they actually wanted. The end result is a lot of really interesting ideas that were left in the concept stage, and a final movie that touched on some interesting concepts, but never did so in a coherent or satisfying way (and that's just considering the eventual director's cut, the original theatrical release is an absolute mess).
Alien 4 is just gorgeous to look at, and in some places has some pretty neat ideas. The last 15 minutes are probably the worst 15 minutes in the Alien franchise, but if you ignore everything that happens after Ripley is taken down through the grate, it isn't actually that bad a movie... it just isn't an Alien movie. It's a bunch of Joss Whedon characters in a Jeunet film fighting Aliens, some good one liners and gorgeous production but the tone is off... and then there's that last 15 minutes.
Predator 2 - Predator in the City is unremarkable. All the same beats as the first movie, with some really odd sort of parody about crime gone wild thrown in. Just an odd movie, made all the more odd by trying to pretend Danny Glover is a fitting follow up the Schwarzenegger.
Alien vs Predator is just b-movie schlock. The only character that anyone can remember is only memorable because he's referencing an actual character he played in one of the good movies. Even the action scenes were weak. All up I think this is the weakest film out of the whole lot.
Alien vs Predator Requiem is pretty terrible. Nothing anyone does makes any sense, and the whole thing ended up feeling like one of those post-modern horror movies where you're supposed to cheer for whichever idiot teenage is going to get ganked next. And why the feth is it called Requiem? Did anyone involved even know what a requiem is, or did they just like the sound of the word?
Predators is cheesy fan fiction. The script was written more than a decade ago by Robert Rodriguez, and rejected. It got found and greenlit years later, because by then no-one really gave a gak anymore. Whatever the Alien and Predator franchises once represented as big, tent pole productions was gone, replaced by the idea of releasing mid-budget films as reliable cash cows. That said, I actually don't mind bits of Predators, the concept of the hunting planet is solid and the visuals are nice, but the human cast of genre cliches and the bigger Predators who’ve captured one of the original Predators is just too much. Adrien Brody followed the Danny Glover tradition of being really weirdly miscast in the main role.
Seaward wrote: Part of the problem with Alien 3 is that the original screenplay for it is so, so much better than what they filmed. Once you know what Cameron wanted to do versus what actually ended up being done, it'll sour any affection you might've had for it.
I don't believe Cameron was involved in pre-production for Alien 3. Gibson turned in that script that's now all over the internet, and producers rejected it in part because of the cost, but mostly because that was just the first round of the development hell Alien 3 would suffer though. Cameron was left watching from the side line, and giving some very unfavourable opinions of the film that finally ended up being made.
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
2013/11/11 05:04:06
Subject: Discussion of the Aliens, Predator, AvP et al films
So, as I mentioned in the N&R thread, I discovered that these are all available for $3 on "Amazon Instant Video" to watch on an Xbox. Heck, that's cheaper than Blockbuster back in the day, and ready... well, instantly!
Just finished a marathon of back-to-back-to-back-to-back Alien, Aliens, Predator, Predators.
Have to say, the 2 Aliens movies absolutely blew me away. Amazing! The new elements in the second movie (the marines and the queen) were perfect next steps after the first. Best movies I have seen in a Really long time... and now I'll definitely be hoping we unlock the Queen in the AvP kickstarter!
The 2 Predator movies were good, and had some really cool moments. Definitely a lot "campier" than the Aliens movies. The hounds in Predators were one of my favorite parts, and the Predator laughing near the end of the first was an awesome moment
I think I might leave it at that for my viewing, since I really liked these and don't want to tarnish the experience with any of the bad ones. I also have to say, they were much less gory than I had anticipated, and also less scary. I'm not sure what I was anticipating really, but I was pleasantly surprised that the graphic moments felt appropriate and not overdone. Or maybe I'm just becoming desensitized to it and it doesn't affect me like it would have in the past! But either way... man oh man, that was cool
Also, who goes into deep freeze with a cigar in their hand, ready to pop it in as soon as they wake up? An absolute badass, that's who
Cheers for the suggestions guys, it really helped and I enjoyed these immensely!
2013/11/11 05:17:51
Subject: Discussion of the Aliens, Predator, AvP et al films
sebster wrote: I don't believe Cameron was involved in pre-production for Alien 3. Gibson turned in that script that's now all over the internet, and producers rejected it in part because of the cost, but mostly because that was just the first round of the development hell Alien 3 would suffer though. Cameron was left watching from the side line, and giving some very unfavourable opinions of the film that finally ended up being made.
Was it indeed Gibson? That explains why I like it, I suppose.
2013/11/11 05:32:22
Subject: Discussion of the Aliens, Predator, AvP et al films
Also, who goes into deep freeze with a cigar in their hand, ready to pop it in as soon as they wake up? An absolute badass, that's who
I'm guessing you've got a certain add-on already calculated in your AVP pledge then! Glad to hear you liked them as they're mostly (except for Predators -plural) 70's and 80's classics. If you're up for another smaller marathon, I'd suggest Predator 2 and Aliens 3. They both have some good scenes and expand on the originals even if they're overall inferior (but still solid movies) to the rather excellent prior entries. Three stars is still three stars but it's still worse obviously than four star originals.
2013/11/11 08:18:11
Subject: Re:Discussion of the Aliens, Predator, AvP et al films
I'm surprised people don't like alien 3 - I thought it was more more in keeping with the horror aspect of the first film, rather than all the 'marksmenship' of the second second film. Newt was also a wtf moment for me in aliens. Tiny girl, trapped in with loads of aliens against all odds survives... She should've been munched faster than a hangover fryup. I liked Brian Glover in alien 3. "There is no dragon" - almost while he's being stolen into the roof by the alien....
I love Predator, I think Predator 2 is as good as the first. Predators was a good film, but I was expecting a modern action and thats what I got. Lawrence Fishburn was cool though. I wasn't so keen on avp. How is the woman in that film is able to out hunt the predators? Mind you, the first Alien they meet kills two predators - there must be a massve skill gap between being sent on your first hunt and becoming an 'Elite'... I would've really enjoyed the second film...but they filmed it in the dark. With the Pred and the Predalien having VERY similar silhouettes , I couldn't tell who was winning....
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/11/11 11:13:48
Its because ordinance is still a word.
However, firing ordinance at someone isn't nearly as threatening as firing ordnance at someone.
Ordinance is a local law, or bill, or other form of legislation.
Ordnance is high caliber explosives.
No 'I' in ordnance.
Don't drown the enemy in legislation, drown them in explosives.
2013/11/11 11:09:53
Subject: Re:Discussion of the Aliens, Predator, AvP et al films
I'm surprised people don't like alien 3 - I thought it was more more in keeping with the horror aspect of the first film, rather than all the 'marksmenship' of the second second film. Newt was also a wtf moment for me in aliens.
Tiny girl, trapped in with loads of aliens against all odds survives...
She should've been munched faster than a hangover fryup. I liked Brian Glover in alien 3. "There is no dragon" - almost while he's being stolen into the roof by the alien....
I love Predator, I think Predator 2 is as good as the first. Predators was a good film, but I was expecting a modern action and thats what I got.
Lawrence Fishburn was cool though.
I wasn't so keen on avp. How is the woman in that film is able to out hunt the predators?
Mind you, the first Alien they meet kills two predators - there must be a missve gap between being sent on your first hunt and becoming an 'Elite'...
I would've really enjoyed the second film...but they filmed it in the dark. With the Pred and the Predalien having VERY similar silouhettes, I couldn't tell who was winning....
Iirc the young-bloods are like 15 year olds. The champion would have been 17. The elites are probs 20-40 after that it's elder, than dead.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/11/11 11:13:52
*Insert witty and/or interesting statement here*
2013/11/11 11:21:28
Subject: Discussion of the Aliens, Predator, AvP et al films
Was it indeed Gibson? That explains why I like it, I suppose.
Gibson did indeed do a screenplay treatment for Alien3. It would have been a good movie. Expensive, though. A few elements in the final finished version can trace ancestry with his work, but overall, Alien3 was a movie made by committee - which is why it isn't liked much. IT was all over the place like a dog's breakfast. Elements from different writer's drafts and treatments thrown in willy-nilly.
I'm OVER 50 (and so far over everyone's BS, too).
Old enough to know better, young enough to not give a ****.
That is not dead which can eternal lie ...
... and yet, with strange aeons, even death may die.
2013/11/11 13:15:12
Subject: Re:Discussion of the Aliens, Predator, AvP et al films
I was always interested in the "Just another bug hunt" line that Hudson comes out with when they are being briefed. Do you think the marines had encountered Alien (not Xenomorph) life before?
Take it we still haven't had any explanation as to the size difference of the Space Jockey and the Engineers?
The "just another bug hunt" line was actually improv, because starship troopers was a required text for the cast of Aliens, it obviously stuck in his mind.
Also, the banter about Vasquez only signing up for the mission because she saw "alien" and thought it meant "illegal alien" (ie immigrant) is true too - the actress playing Vasquez actually did that!
Medium of Death wrote: I was always interested in the "Just another bug hunt" line that Hudson comes out with when they are being briefed. Do you think the marines had encountered Alien (not Xenomorph) life before?
It's implied, but never stated explicitly that I am aware of. The Aliens: Colonial Marine Technical Manual
makes reference to them being "pest control"
Shows nose art - "Bugstompers: we endanger species
makes a reference to "new bugs in the Zeta 2 system" - by these they explicitly mean xenomorphs since they reference LV426, but there clearly were some old bugs too
References that on many planets someone has introduced rabbits, and that no matter how vicious the alien predators (snicker) are, the rabbits outbreed them.
So, depends on how canon that is, but I believe it is.
There is also, obviously, the "Arcturian" thing as referenced in the film.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/11/11 14:01:10
lord_blackfang wrote: Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote: The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
2013/11/11 14:18:24
Subject: Discussion of the Aliens, Predator, AvP et al films
Perhaps because, as you said, Starship Troopers was required reading that they really mean bugs in that sense, or just perhaps mindless but violent insect like organisms. Kind of would explain why they get their asses kicked by the Xenomorph, hyper violent and intelligent.
Hell maybe Pandora is in the same Universe, perhaps Weyland Yutani would fare better than the RDA at exploiting the planet...
Spoiler:
One of the other things that intrigues me would be seeing what the equivalent armed forces would be like for the other nations. I could imagine Britain & Japan being heavily influenced or directly controlled by Weyland Yutani having them as leverage beyond their own mercanary/android forces.
I always felt that after the Lv-426 incident in Aliens that the USCM would have been very interested to find out what happened to their men. Perhaps Weyland have control over them, but that's not implied in the film as even Gorman turns out to be a good guy, even if he is a bit under-qualified. It's only Burke that's the company man and he isn't part of the USCM.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/11/11 15:35:48
Medium of Death wrote: I was always interested in the "Just another bug hunt" line that Hudson comes out with when they are being briefed. Do you think the marines had encountered Alien (not Xenomorph) life before?
There is also, obviously, the "Arcturian" thing as referenced in the film.
Is this the supposed Engineer skeleton shown above you're referring to, or something else? Maybe I missed a different reference in the Alien / Aliens films?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/11/11 15:36:09
2013/11/11 15:37:32
Subject: Re:Discussion of the Aliens, Predator, AvP et al films
The Arcturian thing is the guys in the mess hall in Aliens referring to having sex with what is presumed to be an alien species of apparently androgynous appearance.
Alfndrate wrote:TIL: The Aliens universe is connected to the Blade Runner universe. I believe this counts as a good day.
I...don't know how I feel about it. I mean, Prometheus was neat, but kind of a disappointment at the same time...I hope that if they stick to the combined universes, that they keep it to a minimum.
Ouze wrote:Xenomoph'd Na'vi, awesome.
Yeah, I'd have to agree. I wonder if they have other Xenomorph mash-ups...Time to Google!
Alfndrate wrote:TIL: The Aliens universe is connected to the Blade Runner universe. I believe this counts as a good day.
I...don't know how I feel about it. I mean, Prometheus was neat, but kind of a disappointment at the same time...I hope that if they stick to the combined universes, that they keep it to a minimum.
Ouze wrote:Xenomoph'd Na'vi, awesome.
Yeah, I'd have to agree. I wonder if they have other Xenomorph mash-ups...Time to Google!
I mean I think it's cool that there are all these connections, but if they ham-fist the connection then it's going to suck.
Also: Xenomorphed xenomorphs Tyranids:
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/11/11 16:48:55
DR:80+S++G+M+B+I+Pwmhd11#++D++A++++/sWD-R++++T(S)DM+ Ask me about Brushfire or Endless: Fantasy Tactics
2013/11/11 22:06:38
Subject: Re:Discussion of the Aliens, Predator, AvP et al films
Couldn't find any more Xenomorph'd creatures, so here is this sketch.
While I love the final design of the Sulaco, I'm a massive fan of James Cameron's original sketch. I'd imagine that it could easily be a Weyland Yutani merc ship, or Three World Empire (British/Japanese/Other) warship
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/11/11 22:07:21
I'm gonna throw my hat in with everyone who said Alien, Aliens, and Predator are required viewing and ignore everything else unless you REALLY love the respective franchise. Alien is more dear to my heart because everything about the xenomorphs is just so cool. I mean, they kill you AT BIRTH. They don't need to mess with guns or cloaking technology because they're biologically designed to BE a weapon, and even when you kill one you probably still end up dying because of all that awesome acid blood.
Not that Predators are chumps or anything, I just really love xenomorphs.
2013/11/12 02:22:37
Subject: Discussion of the Aliens, Predator, AvP et al films
creeping-deth87 wrote: I'm gonna throw my hat in with everyone who said Alien, Aliens, and Predator are required viewing and ignore everything else unless you REALLY love the respective franchise.
Aliens 3 and Predator 2 are... passable, if you love the franchises. The AVP movies however should NOT be seen if you're a fan of either franchise, as they only lead to disappointment.
Looking for a club in Brisbane, Australia? Come and enjoy a game and a beer at Pubhammer, our friendly club in a pub at the Junction pub in Annerley (opposite Ace Comics), Sunday nights from 6:30. All brisbanites welcome, don't wait, check out our Club Page on Facebook group for details or to organize a game. We play all sorts of board and war games, so hit us up if you're interested.
Pubhammer is Moving! Starting from the 25th of May we'll be gaming at The Junction pub (AKA The Muddy Farmer), opposite Ace Comics & Games in Annerley! Still Sunday nights from 6:30 in the Function room Come along and play Warmachine, 40k, boardgames or anything else!
2013/11/12 03:00:36
Subject: Discussion of the Aliens, Predator, AvP et al films
I completely forgot to weigh in on the AVP thing. Neither are good, but the first one was actually watchable in my opinion... sort of. Y'know, if you can get behind the idea that a human scientist is somehow able to outlive 2 predators in a twisted death maze. Yeah... maybe it WASN'T watchable after all...
2013/11/12 03:15:09
Subject: Discussion of the Aliens, Predator, AvP et al films
creeping-deth87 wrote: I completely forgot to weigh in on the AVP thing. Neither are good, but the first one was actually watchable in my opinion... sort of. Y'know, if you can get behind the idea that a human scientist is somehow able to outlive 2 predators in a twisted death maze. Yeah... maybe it WASN'T watchable after all...
It's in the "This movie sucks, but I watch it whenever it's on anyway" category.
lord_blackfang wrote: Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote: The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
2013/11/12 03:30:32
Subject: Discussion of the Aliens, Predator, AvP et al films
Aliens 3 in itself is not a bad movie, i saw aliens 3 in the movie theater and loving aliens.
the anxiety and relief to finally see Newt, Ripley and Hicks made it out of the movie only to see them get killed in the first 5 minutes of aliens 3, just killed the movie for me, i was fuming for the rest of the movie.
They could have handled it differently, Arresting ripley for destroying weyland property or something. The idea that the studio greenlighted that story just baffles me.
whembly wrote: The Aliens graphic novels are top notch as well...
Supposedly Dark Horse is doing a massive reboot of Aliens and Predator. They are only going to use Prometheus, Alien, Aliens, Predator and Predators as their source material.
Gaaaaahhhhhhhhhh!
Prometheus doesn't really fit with the other material at all! Even AVP did ancient aliens better--and this is not praise for AVP!
And only a robit would fall for the line "you must be a robit if you don't have sex with me." Silly robits.
(If she's not a robot, then her character adds even less to the movie.)
Aaahh, one of my favourite lines. I am a big fan of Alien, and i have to say that im in with those whom have recommended that to watch Alien and Aliens. I havnt seen 3 or resurrection (im still trying to get round to aquirring them) so i cant comment. AvP is a good film, with the main character only surviving out of sheer luck (others get taken/the maze changes in time and she is on the right side) and you can really feel the suspense and fear as she desperately tries to escape. AvP:R is.... well, shall i just say i revoke its right to exist. Initially it starts out well... If you disregard the fact that the Predators failed to scan for incubating embryos in their fallen, right after fighting Xenomorphs. But after the crash things go really wrong. Only one Predator is dispatched to respond to the possibly vast outbreak, and then when he explodes the wreck it goes un-noticed. Then there is the lack of a Dog Xenomorph, despite one being facefethed by a facehugger. There is also the lack of any rational actions, beyond the mother, by any of the characters. I mean, the hospital is obviously over run, so you attempt to run through it in order to escape. Then there are the Xenomorph hordes. I mean, from 3-5 facehuggers there apparently comes thousands of Xenomorphs. I mean, sure the Predalien queen is implanting but still, the numbers dont add up. And then there is..... well, this scene:
Followed by the crappy Predator and Predalien stabbing each other and screaming in each others faces as the nuke detonates scene. And as a last middle finger, the helicopter crashes, after being caught in the blast AND NOONE IS HURT!. I MEAN, SURE, YOU CAN CRASH FROM 500ft AND WALK AWAY FINE. AND WHO THE HELL HAD TRAINING WITH HELICOPTERS> THERE NOT THAT EASY TO FLY, YET APPARENTLY ANY OLD JOCK CAN PILOT ONE NOW! [/rant] And finally: There are troops-yes military troops, informed of the situation-within a couple of miles of the blast. Of the nuclear blast. Make of it what you will.
. The fact that they are back on LV426 after the Atmosphere Processor exploded is just perplexing, that any of the colony survived just seems incredulous. Ridiculous game, ridiculous plot, would happily ignore forever.
And if you're drinkin' well, you know that you're my friend and I say "I think I'll have myself a beer" 
