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Well people tend to try and make stuff they think will sell and some of the "new" SF has not been good

Didn't enjoy Falling Skies much, Revolution was horrible.

On the other hand loving Continium and Defiance.................

Superheroes are also popular but can't stand Arrow, bored with Tomorrow People and Agents of Shield has only just got good - and wiated much ore with baited breath for final season of Nikita.

squidhills wrote:

 Paradigm wrote:

Seriously, though, with Wars, Trek, Gate, Farscape and Blake's 7 all in the process of getting unnecessary remakes/reboots...

As far as I know, every time I hear about a Blakes 7 remake/reboot/continuation, the story inevitably turns out to be false. I had most recently heard something about Microsoft doing a reboot that would be available exclusively to X-Box Live, but that is crazy like some kind of crazy thing that is all crazy. What rumors have you heard? Because I'm genuinely interested in any and all Blakes 7 news. You know... on the off chance that an actual reboot/continuation *is* in the works.

I was actually referring to the Xbox/Microsoft version, which, as far as I know, is actually happening. I know there was another company working on a TV reboot before Microsoft bought the license, and unfortunately, remaking a classic show and making it available only to Xbox live users is just the kind of thing I can see them doing.

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Khornholio wrote:
First, they came for Star Wars, and I did not speak out because I was not a Fanboy.. Then they came for Star Trek, and I did not speak out because I was not a Trekkie/Trekker/Trekkiteer/whatever. Then they came for Stargate, and I did not speak out because "Universe" was total crap.

It seems everyone has run out of original ideas...including me. lol.

I feel George Lucas ruined Star Wars with his terrible prequels - looking forward to seeing if they can revive it

Star Trek was virtually dead after the last few films - Nemesis was very bad. I thought the new films were great - fun, clever, action packed and very like the original show in style /theme.

Universe was a very weird "Stargate" show - the SG elements were very much tacked on to the show........

Sorry, can't let that stand; the new Trek films are fun enough popcorn flicks, but they are by no stretch of the imagination "clever", and even TOS with its Western In Spaaaaaaace! dressing had some interesting sci-fi themes and, for its day, some fairly challenging if sometimes superficial social commentaries. Even the TOS movies, which were even lighter and fluffier in tone than the series after The Motion Picture, had some meaty and thoughtful bits there for those paying attention. Even if they're passable summer action flicks, the new Trek films aren't really Trek IMO - they rehash the interesting aspects with twists for their own sake, just so they can claim to be different even while shamelessly plundering the source material for the ideas they cannot generate themselves, and huge gaping plotholes and gaps in character behaviour, personality, and logic are just left there with no attempt to mitigate or explain. The only vague attempt at commentary they try to make, with the second film, had already been done and done much better in both TNG and DS9.

Trek needed a break and some fresh writing and producing talent to come on board to develop a new crew and a new mission, not a reboot with a hack director crudely rearranging and duct-taping together characters and plot elements from TOS without any understanding of or respect for the source material then hiding the gaping chasm-like gaps in his creation with eyesight-ending lensflare effects.

You like what you like - and vice versa

I think they are clever you don'tt its all good.

but imo The earlier Trek films had little no social commentary or anything similar - Nemisis and the one before were just terrible - Insureection perhaps the worst in the whole series - a long and boring Next Gen episode with cod logic and morals - still the Trek films could have bene worse Nolan could have been involved....................

Well no, not really. There's matters of taste and opinion, and matters of fact. It's possible to and I frequently do enjoy silly or frivolous or action-shlock movies, but that is still what they are. Jason Statham movies are brilliant fun to watch with a couple of mates and a few beers, but they can never be clever regardless of how much I like watching them. The new Trek films, the first more than the second, are as I said passable summer action flicks, but the first doesn't even try to go beyond that, and the second tries but fails. The story in the first film is completely implausible when you stop to consider it for a moment, which the film is at least watchable enough to avoid the audience doing much until after it's over, and the second is just crudely stapled together plot points from Wrath of Khan and Undiscovered Country, rolled up and used to cudgel the audience with "HURR 9/11 DURR SIKURITY 4 LIBURTY HURR".

As for the earlier films, I didn't actually mention the TNG movies, since outside of First Contact they're pretty awful, but to say there's no attempts at meaningful storytelling and commentary isn't accurate. The futility of revenge, friendship, personal desires weighed against greater causes, animal rights, the nature of faith, the superiority of trust and diplomacy over aggression, the (lack of)ethics of capitalism, colonialism, these and more run through all the films both TOS and TNG era. Sometimes they're as crude and on-the-nose as the bludgeoning from the second reboot movie, and sometimes the other parts of the film are so awful they're still not worth watching(lookin' at you, Final Frontier), but the attempt is made, made seriously, and is successful more often than not.

The problem with the TNG movies is they couldn't figure out what to do with them. Picard & crew just weren't suited to lighthearted and action-oriented plots in the same way Kirk & crew were, First Contact only worked because of the Picard/Borg dynamic was fertile ground and most of the sub-plots were at least interesting, but the rest? Generations was a movie driven pretty much entirely by the fact that the sets for the Enterprise D looked terrible without the vaseline-lense of low-def TV to hide their flaws, so they grabbed at whatever plot threads they could find from the show to give them an excuse to blow up the ship in the end. Insurrection was, as you said, pretty much just a two part episode from the series. I think by Nemesis they'd just plain run out of ideas. Frankly I don't think the TNG crew were cut out for film at all, at the very least they should have called it a day after First Contact. However, I don't think the solution to the writers/producers running out of ideas is to reboot the franchise just so they can rehash the ideas they and their predecessors had already had.

 Paradigm wrote:

squidhills wrote:

 Paradigm wrote:

Seriously, though, with Wars, Trek, Gate, Farscape and Blake's 7 all in the process of getting unnecessary remakes/reboots...

As far as I know, every time I hear about a Blakes 7 remake/reboot/continuation, the story inevitably turns out to be false. I had most recently heard something about Microsoft doing a reboot that would be available exclusively to X-Box Live, but that is crazy like some kind of crazy thing that is all crazy. What rumors have you heard? Because I'm genuinely interested in any and all Blakes 7 news. You know... on the off chance that an actual reboot/continuation *is* in the works.

I was actually referring to the Xbox/Microsoft version, which, as far as I know, is actually happening. I know there was another company working on a TV reboot before Microsoft bought the license, and unfortunately, remaking a classic show and making it available only to Xbox live users is just the kind of thing I can see them doing.

Oh, I can totally see Microsoft making a TV show available only to Xbox owners. That part is completely believable and not at all far fetched. The part about Microsoft thinking there is a market among Xbox users for a reboot of a twenty-five year old (somewhat) obscure British sci-fi TV show with a famously low budget and the dodgiest of special effects is the part that I find impossible to believe.

squidhills wrote:

 Paradigm wrote:

squidhills wrote:

 Paradigm wrote:

Seriously, though, with Wars, Trek, Gate, Farscape and Blake's 7 all in the process of getting unnecessary remakes/reboots...

As far as I know, every time I hear about a Blakes 7 remake/reboot/continuation, the story inevitably turns out to be false. I had most recently heard something about Microsoft doing a reboot that would be available exclusively to X-Box Live, but that is crazy like some kind of crazy thing that is all crazy. What rumors have you heard? Because I'm genuinely interested in any and all Blakes 7 news. You know... on the off chance that an actual reboot/continuation *is* in the works.

I was actually referring to the Xbox/Microsoft version, which, as far as I know, is actually happening. I know there was another company working on a TV reboot before Microsoft bought the license, and unfortunately, remaking a classic show and making it available only to Xbox live users is just the kind of thing I can see them doing.

Oh, I can totally see Microsoft making a TV show available only to Xbox owners. That part is completely believable and not at all far fetched. The part about Microsoft thinking there is a market among Xbox users for a reboot of a twenty-five year old (somewhat) obscure British sci-fi TV show with a famously low budget and the dodgiest of special effects is the part that I find impossible to believe.

I don't know, I reckon there could be a market for it. To make a few sweeping generalisations, lots of gamers are interested in sci-fi, and there's every possibility that they'd almost make and market it as something entirely new, probably sacrificing the political commentary and overtones of the original for fast action and tonnes of explosions... Oh, wait, didn't that happen to Star Trek? Oh God!

 Yodhrin wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Khornholio wrote:
First, they came for Star Wars, and I did not speak out because I was not a Fanboy.. Then they came for Star Trek, and I did not speak out because I was not a Trekkie/Trekker/Trekkiteer/whatever. Then they came for Stargate, and I did not speak out because "Universe" was total crap.

It seems everyone has run out of original ideas...including me. lol.

I feel George Lucas ruined Star Wars with his terrible prequels - looking forward to seeing if they can revive it

Star Trek was virtually dead after the last few films - Nemesis was very bad. I thought the new films were great - fun, clever, action packed and very like the original show in style /theme.

Universe was a very weird "Stargate" show - the SG elements were very much tacked on to the show........

Sorry, can't let that stand; the new Trek films are fun enough popcorn flicks, but they are by no stretch of the imagination "clever", and even TOS with its Western In Spaaaaaaace! dressing had some interesting sci-fi themes and, for its day, some fairly challenging if sometimes superficial social commentaries. Even the TOS movies, which were even lighter and fluffier in tone than the series after The Motion Picture, had some meaty and thoughtful bits there for those paying attention. Even if they're passable summer action flicks, the new Trek films aren't really Trek IMO - they rehash the interesting aspects with twists for their own sake, just so they can claim to be different even while shamelessly plundering the source material for the ideas they cannot generate themselves, and huge gaping plotholes and gaps in character behaviour, personality, and logic are just left there with no attempt to mitigate or explain. The only vague attempt at commentary they try to make, with the second film, had already been done and done much better in both TNG and DS9.

Trek needed a break and some fresh writing and producing talent to come on board to develop a new crew and a new mission, not a reboot with a hack director crudely rearranging and duct-taping together characters and plot elements from TOS without any understanding of or respect for the source material then hiding the gaping chasm-like gaps in his creation with eyesight-ending lensflare effects.

You like what you like - and vice versa

I think they are clever you don'tt its all good.

but imo The earlier Trek films had little no social commentary or anything similar - Nemisis and the one before were just terrible - Insureection perhaps the worst in the whole series - a long and boring Next Gen episode with cod logic and morals - still the Trek films could have bene worse Nolan could have been involved....................

Well no, not really. There's matters of taste and opinion, and matters of fact. It's possible to and I frequently do enjoy silly or frivolous or action-shlock movies, but that is still what they are. Jason Statham movies are brilliant fun to watch with a couple of mates and a few beers, but they can never be clever regardless of how much I like watching them. The new Trek films, the first more than the second, are as I said passable summer action flicks, but the first doesn't even try to go beyond that, and the second tries but fails. The story in the first film is completely implausible when you stop to consider it for a moment, which the film is at least watchable enough to avoid the audience doing much until after it's over, and the second is just crudely stapled together plot points from Wrath of Khan and Undiscovered Country, rolled up and used to cudgel the audience with "HURR 9/11 DURR SIKURITY 4 LIBURTY HURR".

As for the earlier films, I didn't actually mention the TNG movies, since outside of First Contact they're pretty awful, but to say there's no attempts at meaningful storytelling and commentary isn't accurate. The futility of revenge, friendship, personal desires weighed against greater causes, animal rights, the nature of faith, the superiority of trust and diplomacy over aggression, the (lack of)ethics of capitalism, colonialism, these and more run through all the films both TOS and TNG era. Sometimes they're as crude and on-the-nose as the bludgeoning from the second reboot movie, and sometimes the other parts of the film are so awful they're still not worth watching(lookin' at you, Final Frontier), but the attempt is made, made seriously, and is successful more often than not.

The problem with the TNG movies is they couldn't figure out what to do with them. Picard & crew just weren't suited to lighthearted and action-oriented plots in the same way Kirk & crew were, First Contact only worked because of the Picard/Borg dynamic was fertile ground and most of the sub-plots were at least interesting, but the rest? Generations was a movie driven pretty much entirely by the fact that the sets for the Enterprise D looked terrible without the vaseline-lense of low-def TV to hide their flaws, so they grabbed at whatever plot threads they could find from the show to give them an excuse to blow up the ship in the end. Insurrection was, as you said, pretty much just a two part episode from the series. I think by Nemesis they'd just plain run out of ideas. Frankly I don't think the TNG crew were cut out for film at all, at the very least they should have called it a day after First Contact. However, I don't think the solution to the writers/producers running out of ideas is to reboot the franchise just so they can rehash the ideas they and their predecessors had already had.

Sorry your just wrong - its all a matter of opinon and taste and no one should dictate to another what is good or bad. You can state your opiuon - which you did eloquently - but thats it - but I'll then decide whats good and bad..

Cant they find a SF scriptwriter with an original or even partly original idea anymore.

Isn't Edge of Tomorrow somewhat newish, or at least, pilfered from a relatively obscure book? Same with Divergent?

Wasn't Oblivion a 'newish' story too, plus Transcendence as well.

Admittedly, they weren't very GOOD stories.

 Orlanth wrote:
Cant they find a SF scriptwriter with an original or even partly original idea anymore.

The guy who wrote After Earth?

You guys all seem to forget how forgettable non-franchises are. Elysium, Oblivion, Riddick, Moon, Sunshine, District 9, Gravity, etc., etc.. If Edge of Tomorrow does well, at least Hollywood will start plundering the bookshelves as well as the video cassette rack.

 Orlanth wrote:
Cant they find a SF scriptwriter with an original or even partly original idea anymore.

I got a few ideas. I'm sure one of them would be popular with some backing.

But its easier for studios to recycle old ideas because they'd rather not risk backing a stinker and losing a few months of screen time.

 Compel wrote:
Isn't Edge of Tomorrow somewhat newish, or at least, pilfered from a relatively obscure book? Same with Divergent?

I dunno... from what I've seen of the Trailers, "Edge of Tomorrow" looks like "Groundhogs day..... In SPAAAAAAAaaaaacce"

 Grey Templar wrote:
But its easier for studios to recycle old ideas because they'd rather not risk backing a stinker and losing a few months of screen time.

You can blame the studios if you like, but you would be aiming your crosshairs at the wrong target.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

 Compel wrote:
Isn't Edge of Tomorrow somewhat newish, or at least, pilfered from a relatively obscure book? Same with Divergent?

I dunno... from what I've seen of the Trailers, "Edge of Tomorrow" looks like "Groundhogs day..... In SPAAAAAAAaaaaacce"

It seems that way, but as I haven't read the All You Need is Kill manga it is hard to say. Groundhog Day wasn't the first to do reliving the same day over and over either, but it certainly did it very well.

 Ahtman wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
But its easier for studios to recycle old ideas because they'd rather not risk backing a stinker and losing a few months of screen time.

You can blame the studios if you like, but you would be aiming your crosshairs at the wrong target.

True enough. I was being slightly sarcastic. Studios only pump out what makes them money.

 Compel wrote:
Isn't Edge of Tomorrow somewhat newish, or at least, pilfered from a relatively obscure book? Same with Divergent?

Wasn't Oblivion a 'newish' story too, plus Transcendence as well.

Admittedly, they weren't very GOOD stories.

Edge of Tomorrow does look good, and I'vev seen some good reviews of it, so look forward to the DVD release. Oblivion was pretty good too, not mindblowing or genre defining but good enough entertainment for a couple of hours (and it has Morgan Freeman). I've heard good things about Elysium, so that's on the 'to try' list as well.

So certainly there's no shortage of non-franchised stuff, but all of the major films have been comics or remakes, with The Hobbit as a notable exception.

 Paradigm wrote:

Edge of Tomorrow does look good, and I'vev seen some good reviews of it, so look forward to the DVD release. Oblivion was pretty good too, not mindblowing or genre defining but good enough entertainment for a couple of hours (and it has Morgan Freeman). I've heard good things about Elysium, so that's on the 'to try' list as well.

I honestly have the feeling that the days of outstanding one-off Sci-Fi movies are about over... I mean, yeah, movies like Blade Runner, and Total Recall (which has been remade) were memorable and outstanding one-off movies. Sure there is a certain artistry to making movies, but I feel like "Hollywood" now has this down to such a science that they rarely run the risk of losing money in the theaters over a movie. To them, it's obviously a business, and that takes a scientific mind, as opposed to an artistic mind.

So long as the Stargate program remains under the auspices of the USAF and this doesn't become another USMC/USN circle jerk like so many other sci-fi military movies, I'm okay with it.

chaos0xomega wrote:
So long as the Stargate program remains under the auspices of the USAF and this doesn't become another USMC/USN circle jerk like so many other sci-fi military movies, I'm okay with it.

I would be entertaining to see the Russians using their gate to annex... erm... support the democratic process on alien planets

 Paradigm wrote:
Star Wars died with The PHantom Menace, Trek died with Into Darkness, Stargate is the natural next on the chopping block, an ill open indeed.

Seriously, though, with Wars, Trek, Gate, Farscape and Blake's 7 all in the process of getting unnecessary remakes/reboots, I think Bablyon 5 is the only 'classic sci-fi' left untouched (for now). Truly it seems the Original Idea is a dead and dying concept.

To be fair, the pre-trilogy Star Wars could have been pretty good... if only Lucas had been bound, gagged, locked in a broom closet and forgotten about when they were writing the script instead of letting him write the thing.

The Clone Wars TV series was pretty decent for an animated show aimed at little kids. Just makes it that much more of an epic face-palm what Lucas did to the actual movies!

He did the same thing to Indiana Jones too with the Kingdom of the Craptastic Skullfart.

Man, people spend too much time hating on stuff, its really messin' with my zen thing.