Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 d-usa wrote:
But yet we have a study that shows that illegal immigration is actually down, that we have deported more than enter, that the current influx of central american children still puts is into "net zero" territory, and that most illegal immigrants come from overseas now and don't cross the southern border...

Honestly... why is this relevant?

They're breaking laws. A fact that some folks are forgetting.

It's less of a problem as the screaming media wants you to believe, and the problems that do exist are different from the problems people are screaming about.

 d-usa wrote:
It's less of a problem as the screaming media wants you to believe, and the problems that do exist are different from the problems people are screaming about.

I'll agree with that.

There's a study out there, (can't seem to find it) that immigrants, including illegal aliens are less prone to crime than are native-born Americans.

After reading that, I was thinking: Americans... you crazies!

But, the fact of the matter is that they're still breaking the law.

 whembly wrote:

But, the fact of the matter is that they're still breaking the law.

And the question is: can the law, as it exists, be enforced?

 dogma wrote:

 whembly wrote:

But, the fact of the matter is that they're still breaking the law.

And the question is: can the law, as it exists, be enforced?

Where's your "can do" spirit?



*bonus: who can tell me where that image came from?

 dogma wrote:

 whembly wrote:

But, the fact of the matter is that they're still breaking the law.

And the question is: can the law, as it exists, be enforced?

Its not enforced due to Mormont Memorandums in effect still.

 whembly wrote:

Where's your "can do" spirit?

Realism killed it.

 whembly wrote:
*bonus: who can tell me where that image came from?

A website that hosts conservative blogs, based in Rockford Illinois. I know it may shock you, but other people know how to back-track images.

 Jihadin wrote:

Its not enforced due to Mormont Memorandums in effect still.

You mean "Morton Memorandums" and there are significantly more reasons that the present law is not enforced, many of which predate the Morton Memos.

Dammit. GoT WITHDRAWS!!!!!
Penny Dreadful over with..
master of Sex is...yummy...

Morton memo though gave ICE its guide lines. What policy was in play prior to Morton in ICE that effected deportation? I'm just going by what policy is in play effecting my job currently.

Little Yellow Bird says the movements of certain groups from one location to another location is one way only by funding code.

120 days certain groups have to move out from US Military Installations. TCAIMS GTN gives to much information

 whembly wrote:

 dogma wrote:

 whembly wrote:

But, the fact of the matter is that they're still breaking the law.

And the question is: can the law, as it exists, be enforced?

Where's your "can do" spirit?



*bonus: who can tell me where that image came from?

Is that supposed to read left to right, We Yes Can, or top to bottom, Yes Can We?

 d-usa wrote:
Says a pretty good statistical research site.

Was it the one that concludes illegal immigration is at net zero by pretending "undocumented migrants" aren't illegal immigrants?

 Seaward wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
Says a pretty good statistical research site.

Was it the one that concludes illegal immigration is at net zero by pretending "undocumented migrants" aren't illegal immigrants?

I believe it is. And it also neglected to count minors who entered the US illegally because they were not of working age.

Even if we truly were at net zero new aliens, we still have the problem of having too many here.

 Ouze wrote:
Where is the free pass here? It's sure not evident (to me) in your quote... They're getting sent back, after all.

Unless it's that a lot are getting through because we don't have enough towers to stop a zerg rush?

No they get arrested, giving a court date and released (normally near a bus station). From there it is their job to leave the states. You can guess how many leave.

 whembly wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
But yet we have a study that shows that illegal immigration is actually down, that we have deported more than enter, that the current influx of central american children still puts is into "net zero" territory, and that most illegal immigrants come from overseas now and don't cross the southern border...

Honestly... why is this relevant?

They're breaking laws. A fact that some folks are forgetting.

Where is your sense of sympathy? These are people that come from broken place and come here to make a better living.....
Is it bad when you try to make a parody argument and it sounds exactly like most arguments you hear?

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 whembly wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
But yet we have a study that shows that illegal immigration is actually down, that we have deported more than enter, that the current influx of central american children still puts is into "net zero" territory, and that most illegal immigrants come from overseas now and don't cross the southern border...

Honestly... why is this relevant?

They're breaking laws. A fact that some folks are forgetting.

Where is your sense of sympathy? These are people that come from broken place and come here to make a better living.....
Is it bad when you try to make a parody argument and it sounds exactly like most arguments you hear?

Why don't you ask Dreadclaw that question?

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Where is your sense of sympathy? These are people that come from broken place and come here to make a better living.....
Is it bad when you try to make a parody argument and it sounds exactly like most arguments you hear?

You're asking people to have sympathy for people who break the law to come here, then demand preferential treatment? If these people are truly refugees then there is a way to obtain refugee status - and the US even offers assistance in obtaining that status. If they are here and trying to claim asylum they need to present themselves within a year of entering the US. Want to take a bet how many don't? Or how many won't meet the criteria to remain in the US?
I'm sorry that their country is "broken". But that isn't my concern. I will tell you how you don't fix a broken country - and that is by everyone leaving it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jihadin wrote:
ICE only has 400K seats for deportation. No more no less. They have to pick who they deport unless their budget expand

$4 billion should be able to hire a lot of charter flights to repatriate illegal immigrants. Shame it won't though.

 Jihadin wrote:
ICE only has 400K seats for deportation. No more no less. They have to pick who they deport unless their budget expand

Which is why there are "priorities", such as deporting violent fellons instead of children that have lived in the US for more than 5 years prior to 2012. Although that is part of the problem according to you.

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Where is your sense of sympathy? These are people that come from broken place and come here to make a better living.....
Is it bad when you try to make a parody argument and it sounds exactly like most arguments you hear?

You're asking people to have sympathy for people who break the law to come here, then demand preferential treatment? If these people are truly refugees then there is a way to obtain refugee status - and the US even offers assistance in obtaining that status. If they are here and trying to claim asylum they need to present themselves within a year of entering the US. Want to take a bet how many don't? Or how many won't meet the criteria to remain in the US?
I'm sorry that their country is "broken". But that isn't my concern. I will tell you how you don't fix a broken country - and that is by everyone leaving it.
.

Oh, I agree, The only immigrants I feel sorry for are kids who came here and where educated in america. But I do think the a path to citizenship is something that needs to be made easier, but in the end I see to many flawed arguments for(and against) Immigrations based on sympathy.

 d-usa wrote:

 Jihadin wrote:
ICE only has 400K seats for deportation. No more no less. They have to pick who they deport unless their budget expand

Which is why there are "priorities", such as deporting violent fellons instead of children that have lived in the US for more than 5 years prior to 2012. Although that is part of the problem according to you.

Okay

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Oh, I agree, The only immigrants I feel sorry for are kids who came here and where educated in america. But I do think the a path to citizenship is something that needs to be made easier, but in the end I see to many flawed arguments for(and against) Immigrations based on sympathy.

Why feel sorry for them? They came here illegally and had the chance to get a great taxpayer funded education. They can now use that to help improve their country of origin, and thus help stem the flow of emigration.
Could the path to citizenship be made easier? Probably a little. But entering a country unlawfully doesn't exactly make it easy either

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Where is your sense of sympathy? These are people that come from broken place and come here to make a better living.....
Is it bad when you try to make a parody argument and it sounds exactly like most arguments you hear?

You're asking people to have sympathy for people who break the law to come here, then demand preferential treatment? If these people are truly refugees then there is a way to obtain refugee status - and the US even offers assistance in obtaining that status. If they are here and trying to claim asylum they need to present themselves within a year of entering the US. Want to take a bet how many don't? Or how many won't meet the criteria to remain in the US?
I'm sorry that their country is "broken". But that isn't my concern. I will tell you how you don't fix a broken country - and that is by everyone leaving it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jihadin wrote:
ICE only has 400K seats for deportation. No more no less. They have to pick who they deport unless their budget expand

$4 billion should be able to hire a lot of charter flights to repatriate illegal immigrants. Shame it won't though.

Only those selected to be deported. Morton memo's covers the priority of who are to be deported. An Immigration Judge decides who are to be deported. ICE Attorneys decides which cases appear before a Immigration judge. All others are release with a future court date to appear before a Immigration Judge to decide on their status.

Those who are slated for Refugee status can draw upon SS benefits for eight years. Those benefits are funded from deceased citizens SS accounts. They also are allowed to apply for family members by filling out a request called Advance Parole allowing them to enter the US. Those individuals also apply for refugee status and are also eligible to apply for Advance parole for their family members or not renew the Advance Parole card. They're not deported being their not consider a priority.

Noir wrote:

 Ouze wrote:
Where is the free pass here? It's sure not evident (to me) in your quote... They're getting sent back, after all.

Unless it's that a lot are getting through because we don't have enough towers to stop a zerg rush?

No they get arrested, giving a court date and released (normally near a bus station). From there it is their job to leave the states. You can guess how many leave.

2 posts below this (5th post in the thread), and 19 days ago, I acknowledged that I didn't realize the specifics of it.

 Jihadin wrote:
Only those selected to be deported. Morton memo's covers the priority of who are to be deported. An Immigration Judge decides who are to be deported. ICE Attorneys decides which cases appear before a Immigration judge. All others are release with a future court date to appear before a Immigration Judge to decide on their status.

I'd be interested in finding out the percentage of people who actually show up for their hearings after being released.

 Jihadin wrote:
Those who are slated for Refugee status can draw upon SS benefits for eight years. Those benefits are funded from deceased citizens SS accounts. They also are allowed to apply for family members by filling out a request called Advance Parole allowing them to enter the US. Those individuals also apply for refugee status and are also eligible to apply for Advance parole for their family members or not renew the Advance Parole card. They're not deported being their not consider a priority.

And deferred action expands this also

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:

 Jihadin wrote:
Only those selected to be deported. Morton memo's covers the priority of who are to be deported. An Immigration Judge decides who are to be deported. ICE Attorneys decides which cases appear before a Immigration judge. All others are release with a future court date to appear before a Immigration Judge to decide on their status.

I'd be interested in finding out the percentage of people who actually show up for their hearings after being released.

 Jihadin wrote:
Those who are slated for Refugee status can draw upon SS benefits for eight years. Those benefits are funded from deceased citizens SS accounts. They also are allowed to apply for family members by filling out a request called Advance Parole allowing them to enter the US. Those individuals also apply for refugee status and are also eligible to apply for Advance parole for their family members or not renew the Advance Parole card. They're not deported being their not consider a priority.

And deferred action expands this also

This also apply to those who are eligible for DACA.
Why do an executive order for DACA when those individuals are already protected by the Morton Memo's.

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Oh, I agree, The only immigrants I feel sorry for are kids who came here and where educated in america. But I do think the a path to citizenship is something that needs to be made easier, but in the end I see to many flawed arguments for(and against) Immigrations based on sympathy.

Why feel sorry for them? They came here illegally and had the chance to get a great taxpayer funded education. They can now use that to help improve their country of origin, and thus help stem the flow of emigration.
Could the path to citizenship be made easier? Probably a little. But entering a country unlawfully doesn't exactly make it easy either

Because the kids where not the one breaking the law really, but they are still treated like it.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Oh, I agree, The only immigrants I feel sorry for are kids who came here and where educated in america. But I do think the a path to citizenship is something that needs to be made easier, but in the end I see to many flawed arguments for(and against) Immigrations based on sympathy.

Why feel sorry for them? They came here illegally and had the chance to get a great taxpayer funded education. They can now use that to help improve their country of origin, and thus help stem the flow of emigration.
Could the path to citizenship be made easier? Probably a little. But entering a country unlawfully doesn't exactly make it easy either

Because the kids where not the one breaking the law really, but they are still treated like it.

Well, yes they were and yes they are.

My Dad immigrated to the US. He sees himself as American. In his youth he went through all the interviews and paperwork.

My recently departed wife was an immigrant. I had to figure out all the papers myself, and pay thousands of dollars in fees. She died before she could become a full citizen but was a permanent resident.

I love legal immigration. It can be enforced. It should be. No one has a right to be here unless they have the approval of the US Government. That approval must be earned. To throw away the hard work I did for my wife and make it a freebie to others is insulting.

 cincydooley wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Oh, I agree, The only immigrants I feel sorry for are kids who came here and where educated in america. But I do think the a path to citizenship is something that needs to be made easier, but in the end I see to many flawed arguments for(and against) Immigrations based on sympathy.

Why feel sorry for them? They came here illegally and had the chance to get a great taxpayer funded education. They can now use that to help improve their country of origin, and thus help stem the flow of emigration.
Could the path to citizenship be made easier? Probably a little. But entering a country unlawfully doesn't exactly make it easy either

Because the kids where not the one breaking the law really, but they are still treated like it.

Well, yes they were and yes they are.

Loophole in a certain 2008 allowing them to stay.
They go before a Juvenile Judge who grants Special Immigrant Juvenile status. Goes back to 1990 law that connects to a certain 2008 law
Can apply for a T and U Visa afterwards for their parents. For that to be granted they have to cooperate with LEO on whatever

I disagree cincy, they are kids that most likely had no idea what wha going one when they crossed the border. That is why they are allowed to say. If a kid cant be convicted of most crimes, why is illegal immigration the same?
I

 Gen. Lee Losing wrote:
My Dad immigrated to the US. He sees himself as American. In his youth he went through all the interviews and paperwork.

My recently departed wife was an immigrant. I had to figure out all the papers myself, and pay thousands of dollars in fees. She died before she could become a full citizen but was a permanent resident.

I love legal immigration. It can be enforced. It should be. No one has a right to be here unless they have the approval of the US Government. That approval must be earned. To throw away the hard work I did for my wife and make it a freebie to others is insulting.

I have some Eastern European friends that feel the exact same way.

If all the Indians, Russians, and Asians can legally become citizens, why are we making a special case for Central Americans?