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It probably is religiously motivated and no one here is denying that. The disagreement is over whether or not to assume it is, or if to wait for further evidence to confirm/deny the most likely motive. Personally I think that people jumping to conclusions in regards to ethnic and/or Muslim shooters is an unfortunately common occurrence, but that doesn't justify jumping to conclusions here. Even if its a short jump.

But really, shooting like this shouldn't make national news. As a country we have decided to be relatively free in terms of gun ownership and control. This means we have accepted (consciously or not) the benefits and downsides of this policy. There is a lot of discussion to be had (elsewhere) on if it reduces crime or increases it or if it is a good thing or bad. Regardless, our current policies mean that shootings like this will happen with decent frequency because there are always crazy individuals in any society and in ours those people can get access to guns. Which brings me to the question that people should ask themselves; why react to this as anything but the norm?

Sure feels like a different thread to when a muslim person shoots the place up.

I think it's totally fair to have the stance of "we don't have enough information yet to make any judgments".

The issue (to me) is that this kind of discretion is rarely ever present when the alleged perpetrator's name is Achmed or D'vonte.

 curran12 wrote:
So why are we not waiting for the evidence again?

It could be religious, it could be a domestic issue, it could be space fairies inside his brain. Right now, we don't know.

So why aren't we waiting for more information? Can someone clear that up for me.

Mostly just because whenever a Muslim terrorist does something everybody dog piles and gaks on Islam and starts talking about how Muslims and refugees are he greatest threat to America that ever existed, that Islam so violent from the core, and that this sort of thing never happens with Christians and that there is no such thing as a Christian terrorist.

And when it was pointed out that Christian terrorist bomb and shoot up abortion clinics the counter was pretty much "maybe, but that doesn't happen anymore, Muslims are killing people RIGHT NOW and Christiand haven't hurt an abortion clinic in years!"

So for me it's half just rubbing the irony in people's faces while also hoping that maybe this country will get it's collective gak together and focus on the threats in our own back yard before condemning entire populations and telling them to feth off and die.

 d-usa wrote:
while also hoping that maybe this country will get it's collective gak together and focus on the threats in our own back yard before condemning entire populations and telling them to feth off and die

Maybe we should meet up for a drink in 2025 to celebrate ten years of hoping.

Not sure why everyone is so mad. He is just a doctor preforming late term abortions. Couple months couple years whats the difference.

 Da Boss wrote:
Sure feels like a different thread to when a muslim person shoots the place up.

Not really, everyone is arguing religion or not. Par for the course.

OgreChubbs wrote:
Not sure why everyone is so mad. He is just a doctor preforming late term abortions. Couple months couple years whats the difference.

That seems like the comment that only a steaming pile of human garbage would make before the blood is dry. Of course, if I called you a steaming pile of human garbage, I'd be violating rule #1, so obviously I'm saying what you said is something a person like that would say.

Nice save Ouze.

 Ouze wrote:

OgreChubbs wrote:
Not sure why everyone is so mad. He is just a doctor preforming late term abortions. Couple months couple years whats the difference.

That seems like the comment that only a steaming pile of human garbage would make before the blood is dry. Of course, if I called you a steaming pile of human garbage, I'd be violating rule #1, so obviously I'm saying what you said is something a person like that would say.

I do feel bed for the cops who got shot or anyone innocent. But for dotors nurses or patiens of said place.... Cant say I would be to sad. Allowed to pick off the old, the children and now the sick, how close in etween I guess is still up for grabs.

OgreChubbs wrote:
I do feel bed for the cops who got shot or anyone innocent. But for dotors nurses or patiens of said place.... Cant say I would be to sad. Allowed to pick off the old, the children and now the sick, how close in etween I guess is still up for grabs.

I'm glad you were able to rationalize murder in your head; which is of course also the kind of thing a steaming pile of human garbage would do, when said murder coincides in favor of your political views. Not that, of course, you're a steaming pile of human garbage; just that that's one one would think.

It's good to know that after you started a thread declaring to the world you were contemplating embracing becoming a racist, you've also decided you're more or less OK with the fundamentals of domestic terrorism.

#SomeLivesDontMatter

Or something like that.

 Ouze wrote:

OgreChubbs wrote:
I do feel bed for the cops who got shot or anyone innocent. But for dotors nurses or patiens of said place.... Cant say I would be to sad. Allowed to pick off the old, the children and now the sick, how close in etween I guess is still up for grabs.

I'm glad you were able to rationalize murder in your head; which is of course also the kind of thing a steaming pile of human garbage would do, when said murder coincides in favor of your political views. Not that, of course, you're a steaming pile of human garbage; just that that's one one would think.

The funny thing is that you're obviously trolling, but I feel like I'm the one skirting a warning.

Sorry if it upsets you but I see them as murders getting murdered. Do you cry when a prisoner in jail kills another prisoner?

Sorry if this sounds strange but I am quite curious how you feel when a murder gets the death penalty? I see people get to sit behind glass amd cheer it on while it happens. Whcih seems a bit disturbing.

P.s. Sorry for the loss of an officers life. Around christmass is a rough time to lose someone.

 d-usa wrote:
#SomeLivesDontMatter

Or something like that.

Yeah, well said.

I've been checking all the major sites, and still no word I've seen on a motive. Has anyone seen one posted, other than what they have extrapolated it to be?

It's real nice when someone roleplays as a piece of human garbage to post on a forum.

OgreChubbs wrote:

 Ouze wrote:

OgreChubbs wrote:
Not sure why everyone is so mad. He is just a doctor preforming late term abortions. Couple months couple years whats the difference.

That seems like the comment that only a steaming pile of human garbage would make before the blood is dry. Of course, if I called you a steaming pile of human garbage, I'd be violating rule #1, so obviously I'm saying what you said is something a person like that would say.

I do feel bed for the cops who got shot or anyone innocent. But for dotors nurses or patiens of said place.... Cant say I would be to sad. Allowed to pick off the old, the children and now the sick, how close in etween I guess is still up for grabs.

I think I am on mind blown overload here. Are you really saying you are glad people were murdered? I'm no fan of the bulk of abortions going on, but to see something like this happen is pretty horrific.

OgreChubbs wrote:
Sorry if this sounds strange but I am quite curious how you feel when a murder gets the death penalty?

I feel like someone who can't distinguish between convicted murderers, and innocent people who participate in a totally legal medical procedure in the US is either a troll or an imbecile and neither one of which is really worth engaging - something I've already done substantially more than I should have.

It's probably the point you click the triangle, sigh, and move on, realising that someone who holds such insane, disgusting views isn't worth talking to.

Relapse wrote:

OgreChubbs wrote:

 Ouze wrote:

OgreChubbs wrote:
Not sure why everyone is so mad. He is just a doctor preforming late term abortions. Couple months couple years whats the difference.

That seems like the comment that only a steaming pile of human garbage would make before the blood is dry. Of course, if I called you a steaming pile of human garbage, I'd be violating rule #1, so obviously I'm saying what you said is something a person like that would say.

I do feel bed for the cops who got shot or anyone innocent. But for dotors nurses or patiens of said place.... Cant say I would be to sad. Allowed to pick off the old, the children and now the sick, how close in etween I guess is still up for grabs.

I think I am on mind blown overload here. Are you really saying you are glad people were murdered? I'm no fan of the bulk of abortions going on, but to see something like this happen is pretty horrific.

Not happy just have no apathy. Those who want to kill kids that bother them will go somewhere else. The doctors who kill babies will charge more and life goes on. Greatly sad to see some cops go tho.

As for the docs nurses and clients more like a mafia hit. The kill their own.

 MrDwhitey wrote:
It's probably the point you click the triangle, sigh, and move on, realising that someone who holds such insane, disgusting views isn't worth talking to.

Yeah, my bad.

 curran12 wrote:
So why are we not waiting for the evidence again?

It could be religious, it could be a domestic issue, it could be space fairies inside his brain. Right now, we don't know.

So why aren't we waiting for more information? Can someone clear that up for me.

Because certain people have pre-formed conclusions that need no evidence

 d-usa wrote:
Mostly just because whenever a Muslim terrorist does something everybody dog piles and gaks on Islam and starts talking about how Muslims and refugees are he greatest threat to America that ever existed, that Islam so violent from the core, and that this sort of thing never happens with Christians and that there is no such thing as a Christian terrorist.

Like the dog pile that started on page 1 of this thread, by post 3?

There is such a thing as a Christian terrorist, and this could very well be an attack by a Christian terrorist. But that depends on what the motive is revealed to be. Most Muslim terrorist attacks are labelled as such very early on as these extremists are somewhat prone to shouting "Allah you Akbar" during the attack. If this attacker shouted something similar then I would absolutely consider him a religiously motivated terrorist.

 d-usa wrote:
And when it was pointed out that Christian terrorist bomb and shoot up abortion clinics the counter was pretty much "maybe, but that doesn't happen anymore, Muslims are killing people RIGHT NOW and Christiand haven't hurt an abortion clinic in years!"

Strawman. Unless you can actually show someone in this thread said that.

 d-usa wrote:
So for me it's half just rubbing the irony in people's faces while also hoping that maybe this country will get it's collective gak together and focus on the threats in our own back yard before condemning entire populations and telling them to feth off and die.

So you hope that the country gets it's collective [blank] together while you rub people's faces in it? Let me know how that works out for you.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
As a country we have decided to be relatively free in terms of gun ownership and control.

Yes any time I go to a store to buy a product I feel that a background check is a sign of freedom.

OgreChubbs wrote:
Sorry if it upsets you but I see them as murders getting murdered.

You are aware that PP provides, and many people make use of, many other health services right?

I guess you don't see that abortion isn't murder, but I hope that you can realise how calling anyone using or working for PP a murderer is pretty dumb.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:

Because certain people have pre-formed conclusions that need no evidence.

So we cant just take it on... faith?

sirlynchmob wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
So basically a christian extremist terrorist attack that won't be called that by anyone ever.

yep, and if they went looking for his "network" you'd find it's his chuch members. some priests even have made up wanted dead signs for doctors who perform abortions. Could you imagine the outrage if they rounded up his church, it wouldn't matter if they were all guilty of conspiracy and plotting this attack.

Objection. In addition to revealing extremist bigoted views on your part, this statement assumes facts not in evidence.

If you want to pretend that the thread from a week ago doesn't exist be my guest, meanwhile I won't act like those exact things weren't posted.

And there is also a difference between "rubbing people's faces in it" and pointing out that they are wrong and that we should focus on real threats that are still happening instead of pretending that Muslim refugees from Syria are a threat because French nationals attacked Paris and acting like we don't have domestic terrorists and proclaim "Christians would never do this".

 MrDwhitey wrote:
It's probably the point you click the triangle, sigh, and move on, realising that someone who holds such insane, disgusting views isn't worth talking to.

That isn't what the yellow triangle is for. The yellow triangle is for posts like Ouzes that blatantly try to bypass forum rules and openly insult people.

Different views, no matter how foolish they might be, aren't violating any rules.

 d-usa wrote:
If you want to pretend that the thread from a week ago doesn't exist be my guest, meanwhile I won't act like those exact things weren't posted.

And there is also a difference between "rubbing people's faces in it" and pointing out that they are wrong and that we should focus on real threats that are still happening instead of pretending that Muslim refugees from Syria are a threat because French nationals attacked Paris and acting like we don't have domestic terrorists and proclaim "Christians would never do this".

Those refugees need help now and people need to let them in. Give them a job and let them work and be a part of the country. Many are starving and been at u.n. Camps for years, there is no terrorists in them except for the ones we breed through hate.

 d-usa wrote:
If you want to pretend that the thread from a week ago doesn't exist be my guest, meanwhile I won't act like those exact things weren't posted.

Yeah, I have definitely seen the posting you describe - handwaving away the violence of Christian fundamentalist terrorism over Islamic fundamentalist terrorism as a relic of the past, stop bringing up the Crusades, and so on. Not sure how that's a strawman.

Also, I just noticed you added a tiny santa hat to the ebola strand - well done.

To my liberal and conservative brothers and sisters, I'm confused. Is it okay to link an entire religion to the actions of a few madmen or not? You're sending mixed signals and I'm curious so I know what's considered appropriate.

The presumption should be that while it's possible members of this guys church may be involved/related/whatever, assumption that it is the case is wrong.

Feel free to investigate possible links, but don't condemn until it's known.

 d-usa wrote:
If you want to pretend that the thread from a week ago doesn't exist be my guest, meanwhile I won't act like those exact things weren't posted.

And there is also a difference between "rubbing people's faces in it" and pointing out that they are wrong and that we should focus on real threats that are still happening instead of pretending that Muslim refugees from Syria are a threat because French nationals attacked Paris and acting like we don't have domestic terrorists and proclaim "Christians would never do this".

That brush is so broad you could paint a Warlord Titan with it. And I don't mean the FW model.

Rubbing people's faces in it is usually considered very demeaning, degrading, and wholly negative, whereas politely pointing out that someone is wrong and substantiating it can actually be a positive thing. Which method is more likely to bring your desired end result of this country getting it's _____ together?