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Mate best of luck with this project, you deserve all the best. Kickstarters are a pain in the industry and I hate them but I hope you have a good run with it.

I noticed that redbox games will be represented on Salute ( I assume by Hasslefree?) But are you coming down here?
I also remember some chaos barbarians with heavy armour and shields on a previous kickstarter but I cannot find them for sale? will these be at Salute?


As for the chap commenting the lack of heads and all, you must having a laugh! I mean 99.9% of kickstarters these days are vapourware and your complaining about incomplete Greens? I repeat greens, sculpts, greens physical thing...

Thanks Navarro! Unfortunately no i will not be at Salute this year..... I keep telling myself " next year ". :/

 NAVARRO wrote:
Mate best of luck with this project, you deserve all the best. Kickstarters are a pain in the industry and I hate them but I hope you have a good run with it.

There's both good and bad things about Kickstarter when it comes to table top gaming.

One thing that's certain, in my view of the world, is that you lose out on some nice benefits if you eschew crowdfunding. But the benefits you get through crowdfunding are certainly not free, and they don't come cheap.

Tre's products are always great though, and I'm very much looking forward to seeing his minis in PVC!

Production quality has steadily improved with each new product. The manufacturers are getting more skilled at meeting the unique demands of modern table top miniatures, both in terms of production quality and price. I think spin cast metal is always going to be with us, but PVC is an exciting new frontier which is increasingly democratizing large scale production and making minis more affordable for consumers. This helps to expand the reach of smaller companies like RBG, which ultimately helps to grow the hobby.

In short, projects like this are good for all of us, producers and consumers both!

Well I just upped my pledge - looking forward to seeing where you go with this Tre!

Sedition Wars made it seem like the shrinkage was worse in smaller figures than in larger models.

Absolutely!

"PVC" does...OK...with larger figures but is EXTREMELY challenging when it comes to 'smaller' 'infantry' sized figures!

Bob and Alph have just said what I was about to post as I've caught up on the thread.

zombicide and blood rage figures are quite small and slender and turned very nicely

 Alpharius wrote:
Same here!

Not sure how, but I somehow convinced myself that Tre was using CMON's factory and not MANTIC's!

Still hopeful though...

AFAIK Mantic has been using different factories for different projects, and CMON probably did too (both actually using the same factories)

 Azazelx wrote:
Well, the manufacturer is obviously in China. And we know how well that can turn out if you're not sitting on their doorstep, gently cradling a cudgel. We laugh at Mantic, and deservedly so - but I'm sure they never expected their restic QC to be as awful as it has. Or their boardgame PVC (bendy Dungeon Saga men, anyone?). Or the Men-At-Arms.

Tre's a one-family show, and lacks the means to fly someone out to China to QA the production in the way that Mantic or PP can.

I can't speak for PP, but Mantic can't fly someone to China just for checking production, they sent Ronnie and Stew once to visit factories and see how things are done, but can't go there for every project. However they added some steps in the process to avoid surprises like the platform shoes...
That's something Tre can do too, and I trust his eyes more than anyone's at Mantic (remember the guy checking the production is also the one aproving the sculpts)


3$ per PVC mini sounds a bit expensive compared to usual KS deals, but most PVC companies sell characters at up to 10$ per mini
outside of KS crazy offering some troop/team boxes are close to those prices too.

and a PVC cast of a great sculpt will probably turn better than a poor sculpt cast in metal for a similar price, so I could see a room for this.


good luck with this Tre!

sculptin'zombie wrote:

Spoiler:

zombicide and blood rage figures are quite small and slender and turned very nicely

 Alpharius wrote:
Same here!

Not sure how, but I somehow convinced myself that Tre was using CMON's factory and not MANTIC's!

Still hopeful though...

AFAIK Mantic has been using different factories for different projects, and CMON probably did too (both actually using the same factories)

 Azazelx wrote:
Well, the manufacturer is obviously in China. And we know how well that can turn out if you're not sitting on their doorstep, gently cradling a cudgel. We laugh at Mantic, and deservedly so - but I'm sure they never expected their restic QC to be as awful as it has. Or their boardgame PVC (bendy Dungeon Saga men, anyone?). Or the Men-At-Arms.

Tre's a one-family show, and lacks the means to fly someone out to China to QA the production in the way that Mantic or PP can.

I can't speak for PP, but Mantic can't fly someone to China just for checking production, they sent Ronnie and Stew once to visit factories and see how things are done, but can't go there for every project. However they added some steps in the process to avoid surprises like the platform shoes...
That's something Tre can do too, and I trust his eyes more than anyone's at Mantic (remember the guy checking the production is also the one aproving the sculpts)


3$ per PVC mini sounds a bit expensive compared to usual KS deals, but most PVC companies sell characters at up to 10$ per mini
outside of KS crazy offering some troop/team boxes are close to those prices too.

and a PVC cast of a great sculpt will probably turn better than a poor sculpt cast in metal for a similar price, so I could see a room for this.


good luck with this Tre!

I haven't seen anywhere where it was mentioned that it is the same manufacturer as zombicide or blood rage, only that it is the same manufacturer as does Mantics so we have to use them as the bases of the quality you will get not CMON's zombicide or blood rage... Material wise not sculpting wise...

if I get it right Mantic used the zombicide/blood rage manufacturer too (but indeed it's not the one Tre will use).
However the process are the same and have progressed since sedition wars.

Some of the 2nd wave sedition wars minis suffered from extrem shrinkage, but the sculpting was apparently very thin to start with, more than most 28mm figures
The Mantic restic/PVC figures I could compare didn't suffer that much from shrinkage, even the human sized ones.


I'm curious to see how Tre's figures will turn out.
Not saying they'll turn out as well as his metal figures, just that you shouldn't expect the worse either.

I hope they do turn out well but I cancelled my pledge when I learned of the manufacturer. I'm not willing to take a risk for a high price (which I odd as PVC should be cheap) especially when factoring in shipping and customs etc.

price is about 1/3rd of his metal figures, so "relatively" cheap. He doesn't have the economy of scales other companies have and can't compete with them on minis/$.
But I get your point. Didn't pledge either (no budget for minis right now, and I'd probably prefer to get fewer minis in metal/resin) but I'm sure the deal will please many people.

I have clicked "Remind Me". If it looks likely to fund, I'll chuck in a few dollars just to support it, but without pledging for a reward. With the aforementioned shipping, tax, and duty, it'll be cheaper for me to get this at UK retail after release.

More folks need to take a chance on this for us to make it there, I think - this is exactly the kind of project Kickstarter is for!

I wonder if somehow the average pledge total needs to increase as well... but I can't see any way for there to be add-ons here.

A great step would be to make it EU friendly somehow, avoiding customs will mitigate the high price per model cost other wise customs pretty much kills it of.

Yeah, that would get me straight in at $115. Though I'm not sure if that becomes worthwhile for Tre or not. Might get a couple of dozen extra pledgers for being EU-friendly, at least.

to make it EU friendly would mean Tre would have to cover 20% VAT (ish), shipping to the EU and paying distribution hub,

so without raising the price of the pledges 30% (guestimate) its just not possible

Well, Tre wouldn't necessarily have to cover that stuff; it could all come as part of the shipping costs to EU countries. That's the recommendation from Stonemaier:

http://stonemaiergames.com/kickstarter-lesson-47-this-project-is-eu-friendly/

(All their posts on KS setup and management are worth a look I think.)

And again, one would hope Tre could cut a deal with Hasslefree or another existing partner... but if not, there are some good fulfillment options that specialise in EU-friendly shipping.

Orlando is exactly right. Being EU friendly introduces a new variable cost that is almost impossible to predict. The people whom I have spoken with want almost as much per package as it would cost me to just pay half the postage myself. And that is only an estimate price to boot!


Thanks very much for the link Ian, that is the first i have heard of these and it appears very helpful.

As for the price per mini, the price is set in such a way as to allow me to restock the product and be able to afford to sell the box set through distribution ( which takes a GIANT bite out of the overall profit ) and also to be able to expand the contents of the box through funding in Kickstarter.

Economy of scale is no joke. I just don't have the support base or running capital to afford to sell minis for less than what i have offered them for here. If I could I would.

And thanks for the vouching Sculpting Zombie!

I'll check them out when they make it to retail then.

Any chance of offering existing stuff at a bit of a discount as add ons? There's a few models I wouldn't mind picking up to help fund the project if I can get a bit of a discount. My funds are tight enough that buying RBG models at full price is a serious decision in terms of "do I need this now?" as is, unfortunately.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, RiTides, insert a link to the KS in Tre's signature line, please!

I save my funds for Tre's kickstarters because I know his stuff is a bit under appreciated and he needs every backer.

I'm cautiously optimistic here - if we can add funds at a constant enough rate for a week or so, then get a big bump in the last few days, it should fund.

I second (again!) the call for add ons. Tre, if you could make your catalog available as add ons, maybe for a bit of a discount, I'd also happily throw more money at the project. I'd love to pick up some of your orcs to go with the goblins I already have!

Fingers crossed!

Tre: for the love of god, send out an update message about this KS to EACH of your previous ones. You only sent an update message to your most recent KSer which had the fewest backers of your previous efforts. Please. There's no reason not to copy/paste your Warbands launch message to all your past projects.

 Fugazi wrote:
Tre: for the love of god, send out an update message about this KS to EACH of your previous ones. You only sent an update message to your most recent KSer which had the fewest backers of your previous efforts. Please. There's no reason not to copy/paste your Warbands launch message to all your past projects.

Yes, please! You're starting to make me nervous tre!!

I am sorry that I am making anyone nervous. I am trying to devise a solution that will get this campaign righted and moving properly again. I am working. Please bear with me a little further. I think I have a solution btu I am needing to check my quotes from the manufacturer and industry friends who have worked with this manufacturer.

I've been in all of your KSers and haven't received an email about this KS yet. I'm on the fence about this one cause of them being plastic miniatures. My prevalence is metal. I might get in just to support Tre. I have to see what happens.

Guys, please stop asking Tre to add in his existing stock at a discount.

That doesn't help him out 'at all', not only is he losing a lot of money on those sales because of the discount 'and' having to pay KS and Amazon fees on them but he can't use all that money to pay for this Kickstarter because he'll have to restock those figures too.

Imagine if he make 20 grand from people for the boxset and 20 grand from sales of other stuff, he has to use a chunk of that second 20 grand to restock everything he sold 'and' now has to fulfill the kickstarter because it funded ('and' all those sales he got won't now buy them at the proper price).

It's a 'terrible' idea.

To be honest, I was really interested with Tre project of Lizardmen, and conan-like undead. Vikings are not really my cup of tea, but I think I'll pledge, since Tre minis are excellent, and it will help kickstart the "other" project.

Truth be told I think it is the idea of PVC that is putting people off. I am a VERY critical person. ESPECIALLY when it comes to the reporduction of my own work. If I did not believe in this I would not even be considering it. I have seen FIRST HAND resin masters next to PVC production pieces and had a very positive opinion of what I was seeing.

Tre posted this in the KS comments - maybe it would help to post those pictures of the resin masters vs. production pieces - even if they are tests? I think a lot of people do indeed have very negative impressions of PVC. I'm pretty wary of it myself, even though I have a fair bit of PP's later stuff and it's pretty good quality-wise.