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motyak wrote: Let's not head down that path page 2. Leave it at least a bit longer.
I take it you deleted my post? Should I have rather offered some thoughts and prayers? What page would you think appropriate to bring it up?
No, that was likely to be another mod, but I was pretty close to doing it. If you want to discuss this PM me, don't continue posting off topic in a thread.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/07/08 08:12:33
I wish I had time for all the game systems I own, let alone want to own...
That's an opinion piece, otherwise known as "spin". A call to arms is exactly that and saying you didn't mean it that way doesn't change things once bullets start flying.
That's an opinion piece, otherwise known as "spin". A call to arms is exactly that and saying you didn't mean it that way doesn't change things once bullets start flying.
It's an amazing testament to your critical thinking skills that you'd deride an article for being "an opinion piece" and in the very next breath voice a personal interpretation of your own, "a call to arms" as the gospel.
"Violence" is not the only anti-thesis of "peace". "Unrest" is also. Absolutely nothing about the statement "no justice- no peace" is an explicit call for violence.
Little sad to jump to Ad hom so fast. Opposite of peace is...... I think we all know.(Yeah, you say peace. I kinda think you mean the other thing.) . The point is that yes you can spin it to mean a non violent thing but many people are going to interpret it differently. And unrest is often accompanied with violence.
Asterios wrote: thats why I said if they were with the BLM crowd they did not help their cause any. every group out there whether religious, or whatever always have its extreme members who feel violence is their only course, even peace groups had such extreme members.
Well yeah, murdering police rarely works out well for anyone trying to convince others of their POV.
I just wanted to make sure everyone realizes that there is a difference between an argument like "BLM needs to make sure they distance themselves from violent rhetoric and actios like this" or "some folks in the BLM movement are extremists" and "this is the fault of BLM" and "this is what BLM really believes".
Definitely agreed. I just wanted to point out that while protest movements aren't de-legitimised by the actions of extremist nuts, that doesn't give a free pass for protest movements to act as if their words and arguments can never have consequences.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/07/08 08:19:58
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
With 3 suspects in custody, if it turns out it was multiple people shooting police I hope that the motivations will become clear at some point soon.
Prestor Jon wrote: Because children don't have any legal rights until they're adults. A minor is the responsiblity of the parent and has no legal rights except through his/her legal guardian or parent.
Problem being Police will rapidly solidify position over this potentially. Would you negotiate with a group that killed your people in the same way.
No.
Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.
"May the odds be ever in your favour"
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.
FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all.
Breotan wrote: I never said that BLM put the rifles in the hands of these snipers, but BLM does bear at least some level of responsibility for helping to radicalize them to the point they felt confident enough to proceed.
And I only hope you and everyone who feels this way about this incident feels the same about every group that incites people over anti-fed conspiracy nonsense, or extremist anti-abortion rhetoric, or any other case that risks and sometimes plays a part in domestic terrorist events.
Maybe then we'll see a de-escalation of extreme rhetoric across the political spectrum.
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
jhe90 wrote: Problem being Police will rapidly solidify position over this potentially. Would you negotiate with a group that killed your people in the same way.
Fortunately in the US the police serve the government, rather than the other way around. If anti-police protests get enough sympathy to vote in anti-police politicians and pass laws that disarm the police, scale back their powers, punish the murderous thugs who think they can execute anyone who might somehow in theory one day become a threat, etc, then the police can only say "yes sir" and hand over their weapons. That's why, for example, the BLM protest over the pride parade didn't bother targeting or negotiating with the police, they went straight for the people who control the police.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/07/08 08:28:18
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
Do we have a motive for this yet? I mean not hearsay, but an actual motive? Confirmation of who the shooters were?
Asterios wrote: but i'm part of the all lives matter not just one color.
Careful Asterios, believing that people should be treated not by the colour of their skin but by the content of their soul is likely to get you labelled a racist. Yes, that's ass backwards I know, but *shrugs* it's the current year!
H.B.M.C. wrote: Do we have a motive for this yet? I mean not hearsay, but an actual motive? Confirmation of who the shooters were?
Police have either two or three people in custody (I've seen both numbers) and one shooter took the coward's way out. The police haven't released any statement on those arrested other than to say they aren't cooperating.
I honestly wouldn't be surprised if it turned out it was one shooter (the suicide one). It's going to be a case of wait and see.
Prestor Jon wrote: Because children don't have any legal rights until they're adults. A minor is the responsiblity of the parent and has no legal rights except through his/her legal guardian or parent.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Do we have a motive for this yet? I mean not hearsay, but an actual motive? Confirmation of who the shooters were?
Asterios wrote: but i'm part of the all lives matter not just one color.
Careful Asterios, believing that people should be treated not by the colour of their skin but by the content of their soul is likely to get you labelled a racist. Yes, that's ass backwards I know, but *shrugs* it's the current year!
Skin colour is a genetic mutation.
Good people are good regardless
Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.
"May the odds be ever in your favour"
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.
FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all.
Breotan wrote: I never said that BLM put the rifles in the hands of these snipers, but BLM does bear at least some level of responsibility for helping to radicalize them to the point they felt confident enough to proceed.
And I only hope you and everyone who feels this way about this incident feels the same about every group that incites people over anti-fed conspiracy nonsense, or extremist anti-abortion rhetoric, or any other case that risks and sometimes plays a part in domestic terrorist events.
In a broad sense, I do feel the same way. The sovereign citizen movement shoulders a great deal of responsibility for the idiocy their adherents engage in. The NRA is certainly responsible for their rhetoric that fed into the flawed reasoning of those ranchers in the Oregon Standoff.
But if BLM doesn't take responsibility and reform their movement, we are likely to see more incidents like this and far less reform on the part of cities and police practices and conduct.
In a distantly related story, I would certainly like to see that cop in the Minnesota shooting be held accountable for his actions instead of the usual trope of being cleared by the department.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Careful Asterios, believing that people should be treated not by the colour of their skin but by the content of their soul is likely to get you labelled a racist. Yes, that's ass backwards I know, but *shrugs* it's the current year!
No, it isn't racism to claim that all live matter. But it is deliberately ignorant to continue to believe that 'black lives matter' means that only black lives matter, or that they matter more than other lives. The group is saying society acts as if black lives matter less, and they are looking to address that. The response that 'all lives matter' is walking right past the point, and doing so with the calculated intent of ignoring the grievances that are specific to black people.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Breotan wrote: In a broad sense, I do feel the same way. The sovereign citizen movement shoulders a great deal of responsibility for the idiocy their adherents engage in. The NRA is certainly responsible for their rhetoric that fed into the flawed reasoning of those ranchers in the Oregon Standoff.
But if BLM doesn't take responsibility and reform their movement, we are likely to see more incidents like this and far less reform on the part of cities and police practices and conduct.
I think we're in agreement on all of this
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/07/08 09:01:25
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
Earlier the police were showing a photo of a person of interest. Local NBC news had this update.
Dallas police released a photo of a man whom they considered a "person of interest" in the shootings. The man, whose identity has not been released, surrendered to police for questioning and was later released.
So it appears that the man in the picture was not involved. I just thought I'd share in case there were still rumors about him and his involvement.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/07/08 09:42:33
Little sad to jump to Ad hom so fast. Opposite of peace is...... I think we all know.(Yeah, you say peace. I kinda think you mean the other thing.) . The point is that yes you can spin it to mean a non violent thing but many people are going to interpret it differently. And unrest is often accompanied with violence.
None of which contradicts anything I said. No, the opposite of peace is not violence, and assuming such is an interpretation of the statement. I'm well aware that reading "no justice- no peace" as a call for unrest and activation rather than violence is also an interpretation, but I'm not the one making the assertion that the intent behind the statement is explicit- he is, and thus he's wrong.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/07/08 09:52:23
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
To my mind, this is exactly what "freedom fighting" looks like, these people were being killed and persecuted by police, and they fought back against a tyranny. This is exactly the kind of action the 2nd amendment encourages. If you find yourself disagreeing and saying "these guys are terrorists", then maybe you aught to have a long hard think about what a paramilitary militia actually is, and how likely one would be to represent your personal interests (or anything close to the will of the people), before you drivel on about "defending freedom" again.
Smacks wrote: To my mind, this is exactly what "freedom fighting" looks like, these people were being killed and persecuted by police, and they fought back against a tyranny. This is exactly the kind of action the 2nd amendment encourages. If you find yourself disagreeing and saying "these guys are terrorists", then maybe you aught to have a long hard think about what a paramilitary militia actually is, and how likely one would be to represent your personal interests (or anything close to the will of the people), before you drivel on about "defending freedom" again.
Keeping your posts classy eh Smacks?
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
d-usa wrote: Did they actually have "sniper rifles", or was is like "assault rifles"? Just wondering if they had your standard rifle with a scope you can buy from anywhere.
depending on location and the fact 11 officers were shot indicates some form of rifle training, if so they would not use an Assault rifle since they are not reliable for sniper shooting, but like I said it also depends on distance but the reports say there were 2 snipers in different locations at a raised height catching the police in a classic ambush situation.
so i'm gonna say some military training, whether these snipers were part of the BLM or if they were terrorists taking advantage of a situation is another thing.
but either way they are terrorists inciting terror the way they did.
also news is saying they are unsure if the 2 suspects in custody are the snipers or not, one of them the brother claims is not a shooter.
Our military issues semiauto rifles to snipers and DMs so I'm not sure why you think they're unreliable for precision shooting.
You can draw your own conclusions but the information released to the public so far details a level of marksmanship and proficiency that most of the people I meet and shoot with at my club's private gun range and most of those people have no military training at all. Any modern rifle you pick up in a decent caliber is going to essentially shoot on a flat trajectory for at least the first few hundred yards. Decent optics and a few hours of practice will have you consistently making scoring hits on your target within a few hundred yards. Hitting a stationary target the size of a person isn't that difficult and since Dallas PD wasn't expecting anything like this the officers were probably standing still at strategic locations scanning the crowd. The willingness of the murderers to target cops and do so on such a large scale is disturbing, frightening and thankfully rare. The level of skill involved in carrying out the murders isn't.
wrong as a sniper in the military I was not issued a Semi-Auto rifle, but then again my sniper rifle was a M24 a bolt action rifle, unless I needed better distance, then I brought out my Archangel, as to planning this, they knew where the route would go, they used a triangle configuration to take out targets in an ambush style attack, these are not typical shooter behavior, thats trained behavior, plus it was dark when it happened, or dusk which is not as easy on targetting from a distance, furthermore having to wing it without wind directionals is not easy either unless you knew the route and had them in place, or someone in the crowd with a flag or something to give wind direction and speed.
I don't want to derail this thread with technical arguments but the USMC still issues semiauto Mk14s to their DMs and the M21 semi auto rifle is still used by snipers in multiple service branches. We'll probably keep using the M14 platform for the foreseeable future although there has been some movement away from 7.62.
I'm not privy to any more information than the news reports we're all reading I just wanted to caution against jumping to conclusions that the murderers were veterans because I don't see any conclusive evidence that they were. When more information is made public we'll hopefully learn a lot more about the murderers and their motivations.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/07/08 11:44:40
As far as I know there hasn't been any real information released about the suspects, the only "person of interest" I saw was apparently questioned and released judging from a response earlier in the thread. Lots of people are just assuming they were black or part of the BLM movement without any proof.
Desubot wrote: Why isnt Slut Wars: The Sexpocalypse a real game dammit.
"It's easier to change the rules than to get good at the game."
This is horrible..... I blame media including social media and those who preech hate. When all you see on the news 24/7 is about dead black people you can see things that may or may not be there.
Every race gets ram rodded by those in power here and there but trying to make good news by only showing the bad breeds hate and this crap. CNn is as much to blame as fox and those who spread hate in the blm movement.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/07/08 11:51:06
I need to go to work every day.
Millions of people on welfare depend on me.
Is Smacks really that wrong, though? I mean, all those idioms being passed around about watering the tree of liberty, and being one of the 3% and all - there definitely is some socially acceptable rhetoric from the patriot movement, for example, that certainly seems to allude to this.
lord_blackfang wrote: Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote: The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
From what I heard, the guy people saw in pictures and was initially reported as a gunman was an innocent bystander.
He did the most sensible thing he could and immediately gave his gun to police and turned himself in.
It says he was released in the daily mail article, which is good.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/07/08 12:17:43
Prestor Jon wrote: Because children don't have any legal rights until they're adults. A minor is the responsiblity of the parent and has no legal rights except through his/her legal guardian or parent.
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