Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Yeah and honestly at least here in the US, no actual GW stores are running tournaments because they're all tiny hole in the wall places that don't have room for it. It's the FLGS that are running them, so if they are cool with your conversions you should be good to go.

GW's prices, a thread sure to be full of 'back in my day' posts
Anyway, yes, GW's prices are above and beyond insane when you think about it. Take Guardsmen for instance, and lets ignore the old "20 for £15" box. For £20ish I can get ten 16 year old models with options for two out of the possible nine weapon options (before we count the sergeants choices) and sculpts that make them look like gorillas in armour. For £23 I can get 25 British Infantry with all the options plus extra parts to make 2" mortar teams and PIAT teams and parts to make officers, well cast and in scale with proportions that actually look human. For £25 I can get 30 German Infantry that look just as good and come with enough parts to make command units and MMG teams and have all the options available as well. For £27 I can get the Pioneers box set that comes as above but with a huge range of metal bits to upgrade the infantry, and add in new weapon options such as Flamethrowers and the Goliath demolition vehicle.
These are far superior casts and provide far more options but at the same time cost a lot less than the IG Infantry do. They are also easier to assemble and are not showing as much wear on the molds as the IG infantry are. In every sense of the word they are superior, and I get more of them per pack, so why are the IG infantry so expensive?

Or what about tanks? A LRBT will cost me nearly of £40, but a Panzer III or a Churchill will only cost me around £18 to £20, and even a mega tank like a Konigstiger only costs at the most £22. Sure, these are slightly smaller vehicles but they have more parts and are far more detailed.

Some people call me mad for claiming Infinity is less expensive than Warhammer 40K, but it is. For less than a third of what my incomplete IG army has cost me I have amassed a sizable Nomad army with options for both Vanilla and a Bakunin sectorial and enough toys to ensure I have plenty of flexibility, and a burgoning PanO force. The models are nicer and for what they do they are a lot cheaper.

Simply put, GW's products are overpriced.

 master of ordinance wrote:

Some people call me mad for claiming Infinity is less expensive than Warhammer 40K

Well, those people are living a pipe dream almost. I have seriously yet to see a PURE skirmish game (that is 10-15 models side) that costs more than 40k or any mass battles game.

Simply put, GW's products are overpriced.

Happens in most publicly traded companies. Iphones cost less than 80 dollars to make.

Well thats the power of china for you

and since GW does everything(model wise i know their books and some terrain are outsourced) in house (possibly by virtue) its not going to be the absolute lowest price possible.

 Desubot wrote:
Well thats the power of china for you

and since GW does everything(model wise i know their books and some terrain are outsourced) in house (possibly by virtue) its not going to be the absolute lowest price possible.

and yet that is what we would like!

Ah, capitalism. Much like gravity, it can be a real b***h sometimes. GW has finally turned it around (by basically telling their customers - hey we've just turned it around, without actually changing anything) and now they're making money again, hand over fist. Well, kudos to them.

But as to the OP? Yeah, the prices are insane. The blood angels chaplain with jump pack was a watershed moment for me (one of many) at $57 for a single model. Now the primaris characters are all $60 each for a single model. Plastic. It *is* insane, and i will not pay that. That's not the scary part. The scary part is that other people are paying that. We could end world hunger if people just stopped buying gw.

I am at the point I only buy their LOTR/Hobbit range, the prices are still....high, but with what I do (using them across multiple games) I can sorta justify it. that and its harder to get the old mithril minis,

I try to skirt around their pricing by buying bulk starter set models and converting them into whatever I need. It's not that expensive when you're paying $1-3 US per model to get stuff like the DI Primaris or Plague Marines, and then a few bucks here and there for conversion bits. I do get suckered into models like Morty though. Most expensive model I've ever bought.

But yeah, unless the sculpt is mind blowing, there's no way I'll buy a single character for $25-30 when I can just throw some bits together and make my own out of what I have.

 lord marcus wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
Well thats the power of china for you

and since GW does everything(model wise i know their books and some terrain are outsourced) in house (possibly by virtue) its not going to be the absolute lowest price possible.

and yet that is what we would like!

No, that's a short sighted attitude. That's what drives companies into the ground. Obviously plastic minis aren't going to be 'cost of the plastic + shipping', and a lot of things have skewed market perceptions (like Kickstarter, for one!) on what a plastic mini 'should' cost, but I'd rather pay more per unit and have a company stick around than pay as little as possible and have them close up shop when they make a small error in estimating warehouse space or have a badly received release.

Yes, I still think GW's prices are too high, value wise, but they are charging what a lot of people will pay, and it's a luxury product, not a necessity.

daedalus wrote:

 Galef wrote:
I never buy individual characters. It's cheaper just to buy a box of similar models and convert. It is also adds more character to your army

This one. I don't think I've bought a character box in years.

Yep very much this.Plus there's so much amazing non-GW stuff out there you can use these days to help make something different/special.

DarkTraveler777 wrote:

 Brotherjulian wrote:
I get enraged with them pulling the rug out from under me every few years and making me buy new stuff again. (Been in this game 23 years) So I'm into 8th ed now for the Dark Imperium set, as well as codexes for Space Marines, Blood Angels, Eldar, Chaos Marines, and Imperial Guard. Also a few boxes of Primaris guys, because they're good at getting my money.

Part of the problem with GW's pricing can be explained by the behavior quoted above.

Per your own admission you still willingly buy the new stuff at prices you don't like. You aren't alone. There are thousands of us doing that. So, why would GW change? We gripe about pricing, then a new edition or new models are released and we fall over ourselves to buy it all up. Rinse and repeat edition after edition.

So who is really insane here? GW? Or us, the customers, who engage in the same behavior over and over again expecting different results?

Also this.

Yeah.

i've been in the hobby just as long as the OP, but I never had a problem with it.

I can stop whenever I want..........

Orks. Just saying.

Second hand is the way to go. And as much as I hate to say it, I have limited myself to Necromunda, and Shadow War.

Our local game stores are now down to one or two games on the table, as the product sits on the shelves, stacking up as fast as they can get it in. No one is buying, a lot of people are selling.

Warmachine is about as bad. People are dropping full painted armies. As of now, Hero clicx, card games, and X wing are taking up the slack. Even those sweet looking new Pathfinder figures that came out are getting more love then GW.

To everyone, get your stuff second hand. It is there for the taking/ trade.

Just went to check the prices on the new nurgle stuff and it's getting more and more ridiculous. 50 CAd for a single beast of nurgle and 80 cad for two guys on flyes (when 3 plague drones are 70$).

Fortunately for me, AOS and 8th edition (to a much lesser extent) pretty much killed my interest for thse games, so Im only buying necromunda stuff at the moment

 streetsamurai wrote:
Just went to check the prices on the new nurgle stuff and it's getting more and more ridiculous. 50 CAd for a single beast of nurgle and 80 cad for two guys on flyes (when 3 plague drones are 70$).

Fortunately for me, AOS and 8th edition (to a much lesser extent) pretty much killed my interest for thse games, so Im only buying necromunda stuff at the moment

Actually surprised the Beast of Nurgle isn't more. It's on a 60mm base, and Tau Broadsides and Commanders are $60 CAN, though they come with drones.

I'm not bothered about the prices across the board for newer, multi-part unit kits, but with individual characters, it does get a little silly.

Units-wise GW kits are consistently among the best models available and the wealth of different options, as well as the ability to combine with other kits with ease, does lead to many great conversion opportunities which I do think it's worth paying extra for, especially if you get ~20% off through an independent retailer. Whenever I buy an Ork Trukk for instance, I always manage to make two Trukks out of the kit, by using the wheels and a scratchbuilt chassis for one and the plastic chassis and a deffkopta rotor to make the second a "hover Trukk" for example.

But paying around £20 for an individual character is a joke, and has lead me to converting most of the new character models I use. It's a real shame as some of the character models are stunning but the price keeps me away. I'd love to pick up the Deathwatch Watch Master purely to paint, but I can't justify that price tag for something that's going to sit on the shelf . As the OP points out, GW could half the price of these kits and still make a great profit. Sadly they insist on keeping the price so high.

I personally buy a model and then paint it. rather than going out and buying a massive army in one go. meaning my expenditure is fairly low.

Also i consider the fact that if i pay £30 for a model, but then spend 10+ hours building and painting it then the cost of my enjoyment per hour is pretty low.

i dont really game though so i guess this wouldn't work if your main thing was gaming.

It also doesn't work if you pay £10 for a model from another manufacturer and then spend the same 10 hours painting that instead...

I think his point is that the cost is small enough per hour to be relatively meaningless.

Yeah, I get that.

But it's flawed logic when it can be applied to any other model which, should it have a lower purchase price, makes the cost per hour even smaller. It still makes the cost of GW against a competitor just as relatively high.

 Azreal13 wrote:
Yeah, I get that.

But it's flawed logic when it can be applied to any other model which, should it have a lower purchase price, makes the cost per hour even smaller. It still makes the cost of GW against a competitor just as relatively high.

He said he didn't game. When you build models to paint and build, you don't want "cheap" models just to paint and build for the act of doing it. You want specific pieces that you love how they look, to motivate you.
So is basically approaching GW's product form a different perspective. If you just want them has a gaming piece, yeah they are overpriced. If you want them has a "painting/modelism" proyect, well. They can't be overpriced has long as you believe the look is good enough to justify the price, becuase in that "Hobby" everything is subjetive.

On the basis of ‘overpriced’, I really don’t get it.

GW set their price in a market largely free from competition.

I mean, it’s not like they’re selling tyres or computers, where value is the key. There, cheap is nasty, and equally you can literally Pay For The Name.

GW? Buy, or buy not. There is no whine. Churlish I know, but also true. There’s great many things in life I wish I could afford, but can’t. But other than housing I don’t get bent out of shape over it.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
On the basis of ‘overpriced’, I really don’t get it.

GW set their price in a market largely free from competition.

I mean, it’s not like they’re selling tyres or computers, where value is the key. There, cheap is nasty, and equally you can literally Pay For The Name.

GW? Buy, or buy not. There is no whine. Churlish I know, but also true. There’s great many things in life I wish I could afford, but can’t. But other than housing I don’t get bent out of shape over it.

Housing, medical care, having children. But please don't price me out of bread and circuses.

 Galas wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
Yeah, I get that.

But it's flawed logic when it can be applied to any other model which, should it have a lower purchase price, makes the cost per hour even smaller. It still makes the cost of GW against a competitor just as relatively high.

He said he didn't game. When you build models to paint and build, you don't want "cheap" models just to paint and build for the act of doing it. You want specific pieces that you love how they look, to motivate you. So is basically approaching GW's product form a different perspective. If you just want them has a gaming piece, yeah they are overpriced. If you want them has a "painting/modelism" proyect, well. They can't be overpriced has long as you believe the look is good enough to justify the price, becuase in that "Hobby" everything is subjetive.

Oh right, and nobody has ever made a miniature that anyone's wanted for less than GW sell theirs for? Frankly, if you're buying models to paint only, GW are a fairly crude and basic choice, they're designed as gaming pieces at least in part and plastic doesn't have the resolution of detail resin does.

You're right that most things are subjective, and "this model gets me X hobby hours" is a perfectly fine rationalization on a personal level, but it doesn't make for a very strong argument against the very objective comparison of models made from the same materials using the same techniques and offered for radically different selling prices.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
On the basis of ‘overpriced’, I really don’t get it.

GW set their price in a market largely free from competition.

I mean, it’s not like they’re selling tyres or computers, where value is the key. There, cheap is nasty, and equally you can literally Pay For The Name.

GW? Buy, or buy not. There is no whine. Churlish I know, but also true. There’s great many things in life I wish I could afford, but can’t. But other than housing I don’t get bent out of shape over it.

The best argument you can offer is "don't like it, don't buy it?" How disappointing, I expected many pages of detailed justifications about how they're using premium polystyrene and the finest Swiss steel cast dies.

How about, large design and production staff with tons of supporting fluff that keeps the buying base interested?

What about it?

A single guy in his bedroom can produce a beautiful model and contract a factory to produce it, or even cast it himself.

A company's overhead obligation forcing its prices higher is NMFP.

[MOD EDIT - RULE #1 - Alpharius] Because that’s how every business ever, well, those that proved successful actually work?

Seriously. That’s how the world turns. Profit motive is not and will never be tied to production cost.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
[MOD EDIT - RULE #1 - Alpharius] Because that’s how every business ever, well, those that proved successful actually work?

Seriously. That’s how the world turns. Profit motive is not and will never be tied to production cost.

I think your last sentence undermines your first.

Production cost doesn't set prices and company overhead isn't the customer's concern.

I just came back myself, and I built all my characters minus one of my Terminator sorcerers (mainly because I didn't wanna pay $50 when I only needed a single model...) However, I now have the bits to convert my own Terminator lords in whatever config I want for a long, long time. Yes, single model prices from GW are insane, especially for finecast; $20 for a single banner wielding model? Get bent, I'll buy a kit of chaos space marines for $15 more and get 10 dudes too!

It really is.

It really, really is.

Or do you seriously think every company, barring The Great Satan Games Workshop aims to merely break even?

No. Of course they don’t. They seek to get their product on the shelf for the highest possibly price, but at the lowest possible cost.

Am....am I the only one with even the most crack-handed and rudimentary grasp of how business actually works in the real world?

And note, I’ve made no move to defend GW’s profit margin. I’m simply pointing out that In The Big Boy’s World, ain’t nobody actually gives am airborne reproductive act at a rolling deep fried comestible whether the asking price is even dimly limited by the production cost.

Elsewise, why pay for Ferrari, when you could by a Skoda? They’ll both get up from A to B. Why pay for a Blu-Ray when one could buy a knackered ex-rental VHS? And so on and so forth.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
It really is.

It really, really is.

Or do you seriously think every company, barring The Great Satan Games Workshop aims to merely break even?

No. Of course they don’t. They seek to get their product on the shelf for the highest possibly price, but at the lowest possible cost.

Am....am I the only one with even the most crack-handed and rudimentary grasp of how business actually works in the real world?

And note, I’ve made no move to defend GW’s profit margin. I’m simply pointing out that In The Big Boy’s World, ain’t nobody actually gives am airborne reproductive act at a rolling deep fried comestible whether the asking price is even dimly limited by the production cost.

Elsewise, why pay for Ferrari, when you could by a Skoda? They’ll both get up from A to B. Why pay for a Blu-Ray when one could buy a knackered ex-rental VHS? And so on and so forth.

You are misunderstanding what others are saying.

Why should customers care if GW needs to make a profit or even just barely break even if the price is too high for the customers?

This is in a discussion about the market including cheaper competitors of equivalent quality, or at least a better value for price. GW's overhead, shareholders and branding requirements don't factor into the customer's comparison shopping.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
To rebut your analogy, people aren't buying blu ray like they used to because streaming exists.