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Games Workshop has always been expensive. The trick is to buy slowly. Don't be tempted to impulse buy loads. Save up for a Start Playing set and add to it a unit at a time.

Also, as others have wisely suggested, don't always buy direct from GW. There are lot of cheaper online stores who can do you real bargains.

Depending on what kinda player meta you play against it can also be worth it to make a build plan so you dont do the above impulse buy.

craggy wrote:

 Turnip Jedi wrote:
the sticking point comes when you compare 40k to other games (even GW ones like BB or Sharespire) entry level costs, many roll in at the £100 which is far less wallet shock than £300, 40k really needs a supported 'skirmish' format or a Shadespire type game, I'm discouting Necromunda as the Gangs dont overlap well with 40k

Start Collecting box, maybe another unit or an HQ and the free starter rules pdf? Be enough to run a few small games and get a feel for the basics. You could probably even throw in a Codex or Index there if you want. Might not be great for some armies but not an unreasonable comparison to some boxed games.

It's an interesting idea, sort of like how Warmachine does the "Journeyman League" format (escalation league starting off with the starter box). Mind if I take this as a concept and go expand on it in Proposed Rules? There are a couple of minor hurdles I'm seeing straight off (degree to which building the wrong loadouts is punishing in small-format games, presence of T8 in one starter box and not the rest, cost of getting from there to a legal battle-forged detachment...) and there definitely needs to be some kind of endorsed alternate starter for armies that don't have a Start Collecting box/people who don't like an army's Start Collecting box, not to mention I haven't sat down and run the numbers to see if all the Start Collecting kits even come out to similar points values, but it's definitely an interesting idea.

I mean it is a small form game if its a box and an hq maybe.

set a point limit like 500 point

write up some rules for making a densely populated 4x4 or 3x3 even and some specific missions for that scale of a game and you got your self patrol squad or whatever it used to be called.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

craggy wrote:

 Turnip Jedi wrote:
the sticking point comes when you compare 40k to other games (even GW ones like BB or Sharespire) entry level costs, many roll in at the £100 which is far less wallet shock than £300, 40k really needs a supported 'skirmish' format or a Shadespire type game, I'm discouting Necromunda as the Gangs dont overlap well with 40k

Start Collecting box, maybe another unit or an HQ and the free starter rules pdf? Be enough to run a few small games and get a feel for the basics. You could probably even throw in a Codex or Index there if you want. Might not be great for some armies but not an unreasonable comparison to some boxed games.

It's an interesting idea, sort of like how Warmachine does the "Journeyman League" format (escalation league starting off with the starter box). Mind if I take this as a concept and go expand on it in Proposed Rules? There are a couple of minor hurdles I'm seeing straight off (degree to which building the wrong loadouts is punishing in small-format games, presence of T8 in one starter box and not the rest, cost of getting from there to a legal battle-forged detachment...) and there definitely needs to be some kind of endorsed alternate starter for armies that don't have a Start Collecting box/people who don't like an army's Start Collecting box, not to mention I haven't sat down and run the numbers to see if all the Start Collecting kits even come out to similar points values, but it's definitely an interesting idea.

Oh the Start Collecting boxes definitely don't come out anywhere near the same price in points or power level. The Space Marines ones have only slightly fewer models than the Ork one, just off the top of my head.

I came back to the hobby with a bunch of Orks from Gorkamorka and the Battle of Vedros set, as well as some to make up the numbers from the 2nd edition starter that I've not factored in to points or power levels, a reasonably sized Blood Angels force, a mish-mash of Chaos Marines and some unbuilt Guard (for Lost And Damned from Codex: Eye of Terror) and Space Hulk Genestealers and a couple unbuilt Nid Warriors. Have since bulked out the Nids with the old Start Collecting box and bought the Tau Battleforce at Xmas. Once I get them all built and painted I estimate a minimum of 750 points worth of dudes for at least 5 armies. Maybe 6 depending on how I get on with my Exodites project. I'm planning to start running intro games using the basic rules and Index books to try and get friends into the hobby. Will start everyone off at 500pts and work from there with some kind of campaign system. The extra points of each army I have mean people can swap stuff out or bolster their forces til they decide whether they want to invest themselves. I figure at 500pts and without too many stratagems or chapter tactics and the like, it could be better balanced than trying to force some people to play Index lists vs Codex lists, and get a couple of games a night on a small table.

Edit: as to loadouts, I'd definitely be okay with people proxies weapons or even entire units if they want to try specific things out. Honestly don't see anything wrong with this in general, but can understand it'd be tricky to keep track of in larger games.

vaurapung wrote:
So casting my own would be fine.? Or if a recaster could prove he is a non profit. And thats dofferent how. I thought the issue is that your not purchasing from gw not that your purchasing from someone else. And you cant use stand ins in a tourny either so back to square one, how are stand ins or bandai models or hasbro models or recaste different.

If you make your own model from scratch that's fine. If you use a model someone else has designed that's fine.

If you get the benefit of the work they did designing it but don't give them the compensation that they ask for in return for that work (which can be whatever they want btw, they set the terms to that, not you) then it's not fine.

Why is this so hard for you? Once you've designed something of value yourself which someone steals you might feel differently.

 Turnip Jedi wrote:
the sticking point comes when you compare 40k to other games (even GW ones like BB or Sharespire) entry level costs, many roll in at the £100 which is far less wallet shock than £300, 40k really needs a supported 'skirmish' format or a Shadespire type game, I'm discouting Necromunda as the Gangs dont overlap well with 40k

The only problem is that 40K is a terrible skirmish game. It's scale is really the only thing it has going for the game itself - there are very few battlefield scale 28mm sci-fi games that are playable in a sensible timeframe and not completely bland.

If you want to play a game with a low model count or with smaller scale minis there are SO many good alternatives.

 Scott-S6 wrote:

The only problem is that 40K is a terrible skirmish game. It's scale is really the only thing it has going for the game itself - there are very few battlefield scale 28mm sci-fi games that are playable in a sensible timeframe and not completely bland.

If you want to play a game with a low model count or with smaller scale minis there are SO many good alternatives.

Ironically, 28mm is a terrible scale for a "battlefield" game.

 Infantryman wrote:

 Scott-S6 wrote:

The only problem is that 40K is a terrible skirmish game. It's scale is really the only thing it has going for the game itself - there are very few battlefield scale 28mm sci-fi games that are playable in a sensible timeframe and not completely bland.

If you want to play a game with a low model count or with smaller scale minis there are SO many good alternatives.

Ironically, 28mm is a terrible scale for a "battlefield" game.

It's not ideally suited to it, sure, but 15mm and smaller really doesn't make for satisfying models in my opinion.

If that doesn't bother you then Epic 40K (the version before Epic Armageddon) is possibly the best game GW have ever made.

If you are thinking of returning to 40k, have looked at the game and thought yeah, I want to play that then it's not too expensive. End of your argument. If you looked and thought no I won't ever pay that then it is. GW is a premium product that no one else makes, therefore can sell it at whatever price people will pay. Once people stop buying then the price will go down. Since they won't price will not.

 Amishprn86 wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:
I'm totally against recasting.
Proxy models have a bad taste at the battlefield.

When you spend 300$ on models for gakky finecast and they ALL broke insde 200$ of FOAM make to KEEP THEM SAFE, send GW a picture and they say "oh well" you say F&^% you to GW and go Recast... And then when those Recasts are 1/3 the cost AND better materials... BETTER MATERIAL for less.....

How can anyone be against recasts? If or when GW has all their models in nice plastic, sure i'll be ok with people against Recasts, but until then, i'll never tell someone its bad to buy recasts.

Edit: With that said, you SHOULD help your local store, if your buying 100% all recasts and then piggy back riding off a local, thats just being an A$$.

Edit: Spelling, English bad

So you happy that whatever you produce in your work would be copied for cheaper at price original simply CANNOT match due to the way copying works?

I know I won't be happy. That leads me to being unemployed pretty fast.

tneva82 wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:
I'm totally against recasting.
Proxy models have a bad taste at the battlefield.

When you spend 300$ on models for gakky finecast and they ALL broke insde 200$ of FOAM make to KEEP THEM SAFE, send GW a picture and they say "oh well" you say F&^% you to GW and go Recast... And then when those Recasts are 1/3 the cost AND better materials... BETTER MATERIAL for less.....

How can anyone be against recasts? If or when GW has all their models in nice plastic, sure i'll be ok with people against Recasts, but until then, i'll never tell someone its bad to buy recasts.

Edit: With that said, you SHOULD help your local store, if your buying 100% all recasts and then piggy back riding off a local, thats just being an A$$.

Edit: Spelling, English bad

So you happy that whatever you produce in your work would be copied for cheaper at price original simply CANNOT match due to the way copying works?

I know I won't be happy. That leads me to being unemployed pretty fast.

Selling a gakky product will also lead to unemployed pretty fast. If i had a business that produced an item, with cheap/crappy quality materials, that are prone to breaking. I wouldnt be mad that my customers went to a different provider for better and cheaper. I wouldnt run my business that way, i would change.

 Amishprn86 wrote:


Selling a gakky product will also lead to unemployed pretty fast. If i had a business that produced an item, with cheap/crappy quality materials, that are prone to breaking. I wouldnt be mad that my customers went to a different provider for better and cheaper. I wouldnt run my business that way, i would change.

And GW has changed, they've been putting out some of the best plastics on the market for a long while.
Thing is a company can't just dump one product line and shift everything suddenly. Even the big sudden shift to Finecast was the result of a huge amount of work at the back end of GW. Couple that to their need to produce new products for customers who already have those finecast models in order to continue to generate income at a steady rate and chances are that they can't just drop finecast in one big go.

I'm sure htey want too - from their perspective a material that fails; produces more returns; more bad will from customers etc... is a problem for them. But they can't just up-sticks and swap over instantly. They might also still be experimenting and improving the process or material in a hope that the investment in machines, moulds, material etc.... isn't a total waste and that they can land a formula that works.

They could just get a better resin to start with... its not like thats a big deal. They chose some of the worst material to work with on purpose to save money on already over priced models (talking about single model finecast ones, some are 25$+, I mean look at the DE RWF, they are the best example of this, 16 for 3 extremely simple birds that i can sculpt and make at home out of greenstuff and have 50 of them for he price of 10 from GW).


Im not talking about re-doing fully in plastics, but dont sell me a 25$ model that LITERALLY bends at the wastes by not even touching it and it breaks in their own foam even tho its weighs as much as a paper clip.

The recasting argument has been hashed out a dozen times in twice as many threads for anyone who cares enough to go and read it. People's opinions fall upon a reasonably wide spectrum. That being said, Dakka does not condone recasting and will not permit its promotion here on this site.

So moving back onto the original topic of 'Why is everything so expensive', the answer is that the previous CEO, Kirby, led an experiment to see how much he could charge for a pack of models versus how much it cost to produce and sell them. His logic was (I would assume) that if he could sell ten packs of models and make the same amount of profit as he made off of selling fifteen packs before, running/production costs would be less and overall profit would increase. This strategy worked up to a point, but he didn't quite know where to stop and so GW fell over the line and only sold six boxes where before they sold fifteen (to illustrate with imaginary figures). Those plummeting sales led to plummeting profits and him continually raising prices to try and reach that lost equilibrium.

He's gone now, and they've minimised price rises along with opening up some old models with the start collecting and christmas battleforce boxes. So if you're new back, that's where you should start, it's where the value is.

 Ketara wrote:
The recasting argument has been hashed out a dozen times in twice as many threads for anyone who cares enough to go and read it. People's opinions fall upon a reasonably wide spectrum. That being said, Dakka does not condone recasting and will not permit its promotion here on this site.

So moving back onto the original topic of 'Why is everything so expensive', the answer is that the previous CEO, Kirby, led an experiment to see how much he could charge for a pack of models versus how much it cost to produce and sell them. His logic was (I would assume) that if he could sell ten packs of models and make the same amount of profit as he made off of selling fifteen packs before, running/production costs would be less and overall profit would increase. This strategy worked up to a point, but he didn't quite know where to stop and so GW fell over the line and only sold six boxes where before they sold fifteen (to illustrate with imaginary figures). Those plummeting sales led to plummeting profits and him continually raising prices to try and reach that lost equilibrium.

He's gone now, and they've minimised price rises along with opening up some old models with the start collecting and christmas battleforce boxes. So if you're new back, that's where you should start, it's where the value is.

He did more than just that, "we are a modeling company not a rules one". Remember those new Tyranid's that came out to try and sell more nids? well i bet that costed GW a good lost of profit b.c they needed to do all that work for those models and then they gave them terrible rules so many didnt bought/played with them, and then right after that Riptide formation came out.. so it was clear he didnt understand the industry at all, i'm glad Kevin took over.
People say he is why we have Start Collecting boxes and some models did get cheaper (like Carnifex's, they are something liek 25% cheaper now).

He was an accountant who had no interest in wargaming and looked upon it purely as a mathematical exercise to see how costs could be cut and money made. As a large shareholder, he knew that money could be in his own pocket. If you look at practically everything he did, it ultimately came down to the financial equation.

The difficulty in dealing with a hobby like this however, is that there are many intangibles which are difficult to quantify on a balance sheet. And he sucked at gauging where the line was between 'community support' and 'word of mouth' and 'continued sales' and 'advertising' and various other such things.

The price increases for units and models are ongoing and continuous.
The customers have to accept it or not (and leave).
The only discounts are given by starter boxes and clampack models.

 Ketara wrote:
The recasting argument has been hashed out a dozen times in twice as many threads for anyone who cares enough to go and read it. People's opinions fall upon a reasonably wide spectrum. That being said, Dakka does not condone recasting and will not permit its promotion here on this site.

So moving back onto the original topic of 'Why is everything so expensive', the answer is that the previous CEO, Kirby, led an experiment to see how much he could charge for a pack of models versus how much it cost to produce and sell them. His logic was (I would assume) that if he could sell ten packs of models and make the same amount of profit as he made off of selling fifteen packs before, running/production costs would be less and overall profit would increase. This strategy worked up to a point, but he didn't quite know where to stop and so GW fell over the line and only sold six boxes where before they sold fifteen (to illustrate with imaginary figures). Those plummeting sales led to plummeting profits and him continually raising prices to try and reach that lost equilibrium.

He's gone now, and they've minimised price rises along with opening up some old models with the start collecting and christmas battleforce boxes. So if you're new back, that's where you should start, it's where the value is.

Don't the Primaris characters and GuO show a significant price hike?

Well, it depends in whether you want to play at a GW store. If you intend to play at a GW store... Then try to get yourself hired for the employee discount, scour ebay and/or go for the retailers that sell at 20% under MSRP.

Or if you feel adventurous, buy skaven boxes and convert them into guardsmen. Far more work, but skaven bodies are cheaper than guard bodies last I checked.


If however you intend to play at another venue, then there are plenty of alternatives.

Mantic for instance, is well known for its fantasy line which includes entire armies that can seamlessly be used to play WFB armies. Its Sci-Fi line does not have quite the same level of match, but you could do plenty of interesting stuff. The Forge Fathers could allow you to run a Squat army with the rules for Imperial Guard or Space Marines. The other lines could kinda work, but less so.

Again, if you feel like converting you could buy boxes of plastic historical infantry and convert it into Imperial Guard. Napoleonic infantry should make nice Mordians. Warlord Games has a nice selection. I mean, you could also convert WWII Germans into Iron Legion or Soviets into Vallhallans, but the emphasis is on conversion, otherwise you're just running a Bolt Action army in 40k.

Anvil Industry makes gorgeous Imperial Guard miniature parts, that you can buy individually as conversion parts or as units of guards according to your own personnal taste. However, it only becomes cheaper than GW when you buy a lot. Like a 100+ dudes using the custom platoon builder.

If you can get your hands on them, the ancient starter boxes for Warzones Mutant Chronicles (the old version, not the new one) contain a lot of nice looking guardsmen. Trouble is, they are out of print and a lot of guard players bought those boxes in bulk from retailers that still had them, like Prince August, so they are much harder to find now.

If you'd like to run sentinels, there exists no better deal on the market currently than the Robogear T-Rex. Robogear is a russian miniatures game that never really took off in western markets. Some designs look a bit odd, but some are just awesome. The Robogear T-Rex is the best from that line by far and can be found from time to time on ebay. I paid something like 50 dollars for 6 of them. If you speak russian and have an address in that country you can find them even cheaper, but alas I do neither.


And lastly. Scale models to convert into vehicles. This requires either an extensive bits box or looking for bits online, be they GW or third party. However, there are plenty of cheap scale models that make great conversion material. There is a guide for that.
I'm using 1/32 M3 Lees from Newray as Leman Russes. Those are a bit too big, but can be found rather cheap. I've also recently converted a 1/144 P.1000 Ratte into a Baneblade.

A kit that might be worth looking into are the 1/72 E75 walkers from ModelCollect that came out last month. Absolutely gorgeous. At 1/72 they are on a slightly smaller scale than normal 40k minis(1/56), but the dimensions given on the fake datasheet indicates that they are not too undersized. Technically they are walkers, not tanks... But come on, look at them!

Edit : At 11.73 by 8.05 by 4,63 m they should be 16 by 11 by 6 cm in 1/72, fairly bigger than the Leman Russ actually, but those dimensions do take into account the extra width and length from that cannon and those legs. So all in all, it should work fine.