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odinsgrandson wrote: - Reign of Fire. Terrible film, but the scene where the characters are telling the story of Star Wars as if it were an epic is brilliant.
What do you mean, "as if"?
I always felt that was one of the most realistic post-apocalyptic ideas (if “realistic” is the right word). We’ve lost most of the old pre-industrial fireside stories, so what else are you going to do?
Zed wrote: *All statements reflect my opinion at this moment. if some sort of pretty new model gets released (or if I change my mind at random) I reserve the right to jump on any bandwagon at will.
I mean, to be fair, we could fill the whole thread with Kurosawa.
Currently doing a Kurosawa binge, prompted by this thread and playing through Ghost of Tsushima (AKA, Kurosawa: The Game )
Also, rewatching Yojimbo and the small facial expressions that Mifune uses are very reminiscent of what Eastwood would later utilise as The Man With No Name in Leone's films. Especially that kind of half-face grimace at around the 2:37 mark in the Georg Rockall-Schmidt video.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/08/01 23:21:35
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
Ok, i was reminded of one of the best scenes in a movie IMO.
The Bond movie "thunderball".
The scene was when the british bomber was being hijacked by the traitor crewman. It was so absolutely easy to believe it could actually happen. The plot, why way it was done, the filming, etc, all made it very easy to believe, almost no 'suspension of disbelief" was needed.
It was also the best mix of very cool, rational believable action and cold blooded horror I've ever seen. The way the traitor so coolly and calmly murdered the crew with the poison gas then piloted the plane to it's underwater landing was almost horrifying init's sheer cold bloodedness.
The water landing was made to look pretty believable, asides from the unavoidable water splash issue. The lowering of the landing gear as the plane sank to make it easy to access the bomb bay was very believable and consistent with reality.
The fact a large passenger jet water landed in new york harbor several years ago and remained completely intact and floating after losing engine power makes it even easier to believe now that a fully powered and controlled bomber could land on water and remain intact. Also the design of the bomber made it easier to accept it could do this.
Later the killing of the murderous traitor by his ally was also horrifying in its coldness at the same time gratifying to see him getting his karma.
All in all it may be the best scene in a bond movie, period, and certainly a scene that deserves praise. I guess I like it for the same reasons I like the nonstromo landing in Alien.
PS Yes I know the plane used in the movie, the british vulcan bomber, was not laid out internally like the one in the movie, and that the vulcan bomber was widely hated by british airforce crews and occasionally sabotaged in protest over its design. The fact that the interior was not the same as the real vulcan bomber's did not detract from the movie.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/08/02 19:18:48
"But the universe is a big place, and whatever happens, you will not be missed..."
odinsgrandson wrote: - Reign of Fire. Terrible film, but the scene where the characters are telling the story of Star Wars as if it were an epic is brilliant.
What do you mean, "as if"?
I always felt that was one of the most realistic post-apocalyptic ideas (if “realistic” is the right word). We’ve lost most of the old pre-industrial fireside stories, so what else are you going to do?
It totally makes sense. I mean how many times have we all tried to tell someone the story we are engaged with, and its lost over time.
odinsgrandson wrote: - Reign of Fire. Terrible film, but the scene where the characters are telling the story of Star Wars as if it were an epic is brilliant.
What do you mean, "as if"?
Only that Star Wars wasn't actually written in long form poetry to be recited by a bard for live audiences.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Lance845 wrote: Excuse me sir. I think you will find that Reign of Fire is a excellent film.
Oh, will I now?
Maybe one of us saw some other reality's version of the movie? This might be the Mandela Effect in play.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/08/03 17:20:38
odinsgrandson wrote: - Reign of Fire. Terrible film, but the scene where the characters are telling the story of Star Wars as if it were an epic is brilliant.
What do you mean, "as if"?
Only that Star Wars wasn't actually written in long form poetry to be recited by a bard for live audiences.
Sorry dude, second post replying to you. I swear I’m not stalking you or trying to be a phallus. Like, really. No interest in that!
The role of the Bard was to inform people of news, through the medium of entertainment. Few Bards ever saw the actual events they’re retelling. Instead, they’d pick up the story from hearsay and the ballads of other Bards,
So what we see in Reign of Fire is, Bardically, actually kind of accurate. Two blokes that have actually seen the source, retelling it for a new audience as best they can. Because at that point, with no TV or power, that’s the only option open to them - yet they want the story and the morals contained within passed on to others.
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odinsgrandson wrote: - Reign of Fire. Terrible film, but the scene where the characters are telling the story of Star Wars as if it were an epic is brilliant.
What do you mean, "as if"?
Only that Star Wars wasn't actually written in long form poetry to be recited by a bard for live audiences.
Sorry dude, second post replying to you. I swear I’m not stalking you or trying to be a phallus. Like, really. No interest in that!
The role of the Bard was to inform people of news, through the medium of entertainment. Few Bards ever saw the actual events they’re retelling. Instead, they’d pick up the story from hearsay and the ballads of other Bards,
So what we see in Reign of Fire is, Bardically, actually kind of accurate. Two blokes that have actually seen the source, retelling it for a new audience as best they can. Because at that point, with no TV or power, that’s the only option open to them - yet they want the story and the morals contained within passed on to others.
There’s also an element that fantasy stories are a lot easier to tell in a post-apocalyptic setting where humanity is basically back to medieval levels of technology; trying to explain the modern world to kids who’ve never seen electricity, never mind a computer is hard. But saying a space wizard did it using the power of the Force? Easy.
Zed wrote: *All statements reflect my opinion at this moment. if some sort of pretty new model gets released (or if I change my mind at random) I reserve the right to jump on any bandwagon at will.
Tropic Thunder, a film that is far better than it has any right to be, has what is perhaps the best use of blackface in cinematic history.
Spoiler:
And it also gives us the best Tom Cruise of all time.
And to toss in some Tarantino, the snow duel from Kill Bill volume 1 is breathtaking.
Spoiler:
Klawz-Ramming is a subset of citrus fruit?
Gwar- "And everyone wants a bigger Spleen!"
Mercurial wrote:
I admire your aplomb and instate you as Baron of the Seas and Lord Marshall of Privateers.
Orkeosaurus wrote:Star Trek also said we'd have X-Wings by now. We all see how that prediction turned out.
Orkeosaurus, on homophobia, the nature of homosexuality, and the greatness of George Takei.
English doesn't borrow from other languages. It follows them down dark alleyways and mugs them for loose grammar.
I have to disagree on the Two Towers stuff; it's so blatantly not how horses work that it totally took me out of that movie. Like the part on the causeway where the plate armored pike bearing infantry is just bouncing off of horses and flying away and no one is even trying to stab the horses or anything, and then the galloping a bunch of horses in close order down like a 50 degree downslope (which would have killed or crippled half of them by itself) into a pike hedge... and they just ride through the lowered pikes...it just looks ludicrous. Plus an unrelated note Peter Jackson's treatment of Theoden and Gimli in that movie were awful.
I have to disagree on the Two Towers stuff; it's so blatantly not how horses work that it totally took me out of that movie. Like the part on the causeway where the plate armored pike bearing infantry is just bouncing off of horses and flying away and no one is even trying to stab the horses or anything, and then the galloping a bunch of horses in close order down like a 50 degree downslope (which would have killed or crippled half of them by itself) into a pike hedge... and they just ride through the lowered pikes...it just looks ludicrous. Plus an unrelated note Peter Jackson's treatment of Theoden and Gimli in that movie were awful.
Your other two, I definitely agree with though.
Tell me more about how horses being ridden by Wizards act. I would like to know more about this totally realistic world where Orcs exist.
I have to disagree on the Two Towers stuff; it's so blatantly not how horses work that it totally took me out of that movie. Like the part on the causeway where the plate armored pike bearing infantry is just bouncing off of horses and flying away and no one is even trying to stab the horses or anything, and then the galloping a bunch of horses in close order down like a 50 degree downslope (which would have killed or crippled half of them by itself) into a pike hedge... and they just ride through the lowered pikes...it just looks ludicrous. Plus an unrelated note Peter Jackson's treatment of Theoden and Gimli in that movie were awful.
Your other two, I definitely agree with though.
The inability of a shieldwall to stop a horses is second only to the stupidity of everyone breaking ranks to fight in individual combats in... every movie ever, specifically Avengers Infinity War Wakanda fight.
From the LoTR movies, Faramir's charge against Osgiliath. Horsemen against entrenched infantry with ranged weapons? That was never going to work. Sure I get he was ordered by his Liege to do it but really, that's the sort of order you ignore.
I must say, from the MCU, I like the fight between Iron Man, Captain America and Bucky in Captain America : Civil War. Sure there is a lot of dumb and a lot of "because the script says so" but that fight in the climax was pretty damn well choreographed and executed.
Tell me more about how horses being ridden by Wizards act. I would like to know more about this totally realistic world where Orcs exist.
Only the wizard was on Shadowfax. The others were on what appeared to be normal horses. Long pointy sticks stop horses. If they didn't what's the point of them as weapons?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/08/10 08:18:51
I think one limit for film makers when it comes to battles is that its likely very hard to choreograph live action fights in a battle.
If they stick to rank and file then its a scrum where its hard to get the camera in whilst keeping the feel of the bodies slammed up against each other. Meanwhile if they fragment into fights its hard to co-ordinate dozens of people who in theory should be slashing at anyone close enough. Hence why they seem to fall into individual duels. You can tell two people to duel - change camera angles and keep them fighting to maintain a standard appearance; but if they are randomly slashing its hard to repeat it and if you try and coordinate it likely becomes very complex for the actors.
As for the charge in Two Towers don't forge the sun was behind them and Gandalf was clearly helping to "blaze the trail". Moral is also a huge thing; a whole stampede of horses coming down at you like that is going to break moral. Sure you've got spears and pikes. You're still going to die because that amount of moving horse and rider is not going to stop. Sure it should have been more of a bloodbath, but on both sides. Couple that to the cavalry charge from the keep and you've a force that was winning and taking heavy losses to one that is taking heavy losses and being hit on two fronts.
The pike wall in Two Towers failed because the sun (probably assisted by Gandalf) blinded them, causing them to need to use a hand to shield their eyes. So they were not able to brace their pikes against the charge.
Only the wizard was on Shadowfax. The others were on what appeared to be normal horses. Long pointy sticks stop horses. If they didn't what's the point of them as weapons?
A long pointy stick suitably braced into the ground stops a horse. Without that bracing they certainly do not.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/08/10 14:58:32
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
Indeed. Plus. If memory serves (it’s been a while since I watched it), Saruman ensured they marched under a pall of darkness?
Whilst that doesn’t mean they’re naturally sensitive to light, it is akin to spending a day or two in a dimly lit room, then walking out into blazing sunshine - you can’t see anything.
Pike Blocks take discipline to perform. You’re not just bracing your Pike, but need to have it in the right position relative to the next. Once your formation is broken, Pikes are pretty rubbish weapons, as they’re simply fare too long for closer quarters.
Sure, the scene could’ve done with some of Eomer’s men getting kebabbed, but otherwise it does neatly demonstrate the drawback of Pikes.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/08/10 16:17:40
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Anyways. More Great Scene suggestions, if you please
I’m trying to pick one from the glory that is Fury Road. It’s pretty difficult, as it’s such a beautifully crafted film.
So I’ll use this one. See, none of the vehicle effects are CGI. It’s all practical effects. And on a scale that is truly impressive. Whilst there are many, many great scenes, this is how I would sell this film to someone, I think.
It’s also the Orkiest scene in all of cinema.
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I have to disagree on the Two Towers stuff; it's so blatantly not how horses work that it totally took me out of that movie. Like the part on the causeway where the plate armored pike bearing infantry is just bouncing off of horses and flying away and no one is even trying to stab the horses or anything, and then the galloping a bunch of horses in close order down like a 50 degree downslope (which would have killed or crippled half of them by itself) into a pike hedge... and they just ride through the lowered pikes...it just looks ludicrous. Plus an unrelated note Peter Jackson's treatment of Theoden and Gimli in that movie were awful.
Your other two, I definitely agree with though.
Tell me more about how horses being ridden by Wizards act. I would like to know more about this totally realistic world where Orcs exist.
You can have (Magic Stuff) in your fantasy world, but if you have normal stuff it should act how it acts in our world unless you specifically show that it doesn't. Verisimilitude. Saying that any movie with magic can just dispense with any and all internal logic and reason is how we end up with the later seasons of GoT. That is to be avoided.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Indeed. Plus. If memory serves (it’s been a while since I watched it), Saruman ensured they marched under a pall of darkness?
No, that is Sauron (and Bolg in the book of the Hobbit where a huge swarm of bats blocked out the sun for his army to march and fight under). Normal Orcs are weakened under sunlight. The Uruk-Hai were bred to eliminate this weakness (along with their obvious physical superiority to other orcs).
Which was kinda necessary for Saruman to be any use, seeing as he doesn't have a massive volcano to block out the sun with smoke and ash.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/08/10 18:42:57
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
I have to disagree on the Two Towers stuff; it's so blatantly not how horses work that it totally took me out of that movie. Like the part on the causeway where the plate armored pike bearing infantry is just bouncing off of horses and flying away and no one is even trying to stab the horses or anything, and then the galloping a bunch of horses in close order down like a 50 degree downslope (which would have killed or crippled half of them by itself) into a pike hedge... and they just ride through the lowered pikes...it just looks ludicrous. Plus an unrelated note Peter Jackson's treatment of Theoden and Gimli in that movie were awful.
Your other two, I definitely agree with though.
Tell me more about how horses being ridden by Wizards act. I would like to know more about this totally realistic world where Orcs exist.
Ah, yes, the "it's just fantasy, don't sweat it" argument.
Here's the trick. Horses are real. Pike blocks are real. We KNOW how the two interact. Hint: It goes badly for the horses. Likewise horses and steep slopes.
EDIT: Yes, there were mitigating circumstances to mitigate the effects of the pike. There's no such circumstances mitigating the effects of the slope. Sure, it looked cool to those who've never seen a horse fall down such a slope...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/08/11 01:23:52
Right. Gandalf definitely doesn't know magic that could aid that charge in any way. He's not an Angel sent to stop Orcs and Sarumon or anything.
There is so much in that scene that explains why it works. Even posters here have explained it through real world physics. But uh, I guess just because it's fantasy we should ignore those explanations and be angry about it because it's a fantasy movie.
A lot of really disturbingly enthralling choices from David Lynch movies including the diner scene in Mulholland Drive or the Mysterious Man from Lost Highway, but the "In Dreams" performance by Dean Stockwell from Blue Velvet is one of the most tension drenched pieces I've seen. For those that haven't seen it, Dennis Hopper's terrifying villain, Frank booth has just caught Kyle Mclachlan's character together with his girlfriend, played by Isabella Rosellini. Instead of exacting revenge instantly he takes Mclachlan's character into the seedy, dream like night time world that he inhabits. Typical of David Lynch to leave the audience squirming as we await the character's fate.
*edit* thought I'd include the other two I mentioned. My older cousin showed me lost highway when I was FAR too young to watch it and I couldn't sleep thinking about this scene for an entire summer
Dreadwinter wrote: Right. Gandalf definitely doesn't know magic that could aid that charge in any way. He's not an Angel sent to stop Orcs and Sarumon or anything.
There is so much in that scene that explains why it works. Even posters here have explained it through real world physics. But uh, I guess just because it's fantasy we should ignore those explanations and be angry about it because it's a fantasy movie.
The hand waving away of poor cinematic explanations doesn't mean the explanations are good. Gandalf has never shown magic to be strong enough to carry charging horses down a slope, or to disrupt a shield /pike wall. He didn't even use it to light the signal fires at Gondor.
The Urukhai, slabs of muscle bred for war, equipped with anti horse weapons should not have fallen to the horse attack like they did. It was silly. About as silly as the defenders of Helms Deep not shooting the Urukhai earlier. When the weak ass old man lets slip his bow and shoots the first one they are *obviously* inside the effective range of human bows and well inside the range of Elvish bows. They should have been peppered with arrows well before.
Kayback wrote: Gandalf has never shown magic to be strong enough to carry charging horses down a slope, or to disrupt a shield /pike wall.
Gandalf was able to protect himself from the sword of the Balrog with a magical barrier, destroying the flaming sword in the process. He could easily protect the riders after being reborn more powerful than he was at the time he accomplished that feat.
And we already established that there was no shield or pike wall. None of the uruks with pikes have shields, the uruks bracing for the charge have pikes and the uruks also are not bracing at the point of impact as they are recoiling from the sun.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/08/11 09:18:59
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
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5000pts 
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