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Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, I plan to play old-school Marines with 2W for my BA in the near future eagerly waiting for the release of the codex.
In a BA army, the signature units like DC and Baal Preds are a must have.


And I think Space Wolf Grey Hunters are going to compare nicely to intercessors. loosing out on some shooting but having superior melee.

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in de
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

BrianDavion wrote:
 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, I plan to play old-school Marines with 2W for my BA in the near future eagerly waiting for the release of the codex.
In a BA army, the signature units like DC and Baal Preds are a must have.


And I think Space Wolf Grey Hunters are going to compare nicely to intercessors. loosing out on some shooting but having superior melee.

Primaris Marines will not have room in my BA to be played in the near future.
They just don't fit.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/01 09:33:34


Former moderator 40kOnline

Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!

Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."

Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss 
   
Made in ca
Hurr! Ogryn Bone 'Ead!




OP lacks foresight to a worrying degree

123ply: Dataslate- 4/4/3/3/1/3/1/8/6+
Autopistol, Steel Extendo, Puma Hoodie
USRs: "Preferred Enemy: Xenos"
"Hatred: Xenos"
"Racist and Proud of it" - Gains fleshbane, rending, rage, counter-attack, and X2 strength and toughness when locked in combat with units not in the "Imperium of Man" faction.

Collection:
AM/IG - 122nd Terrax Guard: 2094/3000pts
Skitarii/Cult Mech: 1380/2000pts
Khorne Daemonkin - Host of the Nervous Knife: 1701/2000pts
Orks - Rampage Axez: 1753/2000pts 
   
Made in au
Rookie Pilot




Brisbane

They discontinued:

Praetorians
Mordians
Valhallans
Atillans
Armageddon Steel Legion
Vostroyans
Tallarn

Catachans might be the next to go, as the Cadians can fit the whole PDF substitute quite well. No, I won't count Made-To-Order, as preventing an army from being discontinued.

If these can be discontinued, then other armies can also be discontinued. The Orks lost their Wartraks, the Necrons lost their Pariahs, Crimson Fists lost Captain Cortez (unforgivable), eventually other kits will be Webstore only, and phased out from there.

I will not rest until the Tabletop Imperial Guard has been reduced to complete mediocrity. This is completely reflected in the lore. 
   
Made in us
Happy Imperial Citizen



Houston, TX

GW is doing pineapple pen with Space Marines and Primaris, albeit very slowly.

I have a Space Marine. I have a Primaris. Ugh, Adeptus Astartes.
   
Made in us
Scarred Ultramarine Tyrannic War Veteran





Tycho wrote:
They’ve all but told us Cawl will make/has already made Traitor Legion Primaris,


Where's that?

We have numerous sources saying Bile will have some sort of answer, but I haven't seen anything suggesting Cawl has/will make traitor marines. That makes even less sense than the original fluff for the loyal Primaris. That said, I know there's Cawl stuff I haven't read so maybe it's in there? What's the source for that assumption?


The Guilliman books. Cawl keeps begging to be allowed to make Traitor Pimaris, Guilliman says no, and if Cawl does Guilliman will kill him for it. Then they let it drop in this awkward way that kind of implies Cawl already did followed by Grandpapa Smurt admitting he doesn't trust Cawl (Ergo its just a matter of time)....

My WHFB armies were Bretonians and Tomb Kings. 
   
Made in fi
Decrepit Dakkanaut





 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, I plan to play old-school Marines with 2W for my BA in the near future eagerly waiting for the release of the codex.
In a BA army, the signature units like DC and Baal Preds are a must have.


Uuh. Your group only has marines who also plays old marines same way? As no way just playing them as 2w is balanced now. Even with all marine group that would break balance
   
Made in us
Scarred Ultramarine Tyrannic War Veteran





 Gadzilla666 wrote:

Then how did tacs gw 2W? It has nothing to do with absorbing chaos energy, it's just gw making all marines equal. 2W Chosen are csm answer to primaris: same number of wounds, attacks, cc weapons in addition to guns, and a greater selection of available weapons.
I was talking the CSM going to 2W not the loyalist.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
BrianDavion wrote:

And I think Space Wolf Grey Hunters are going to compare nicely to intercessors. loosing out on some shooting but having superior melee.


They might as well have put Space Wolf markings on the Assault Intercessors. Blood Claw/ Grey Hunter is written all over them.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/01 12:54:18


My WHFB armies were Bretonians and Tomb Kings. 
   
Made in gb
Chalice-Wielding Sanguinary High Priest





Stevenage, UK

Breton wrote:
They might as well have put Space Wolf markings on the Assault Intercessors. Blood Claw/ Grey Hunter is written all over them.


That's not *UN*-true... but my Blood Angels have also been waiting patiently for Assault Intercessors since Primaris first appeared. I had a feeling they'd be coming.

"Hard pressed on my right. My centre is yielding. Impossible to manoeuvre. Situation excellent. I am attacking." - General Ferdinand Foch  
   
Made in us
Scarred Ultramarine Tyrannic War Veteran





 Super Ready wrote:

That's not *UN*-true... but my Blood Angels have also been waiting patiently for Assault Intercessors since Primaris first appeared. I had a feeling they'd be coming.



They're not Jumpy enough. I can't believe they made assault intercessors and didn't give them jump packs or the option for them.

My WHFB armies were Bretonians and Tomb Kings. 
   
Made in gb
Chalice-Wielding Sanguinary High Priest





Stevenage, UK

Well, we'll see what the Codex/supplement brings, but if anything I'd bet on a new type of Inceptor. We've not had jump-pack troops for aaaaages now.

"Hard pressed on my right. My centre is yielding. Impossible to manoeuvre. Situation excellent. I am attacking." - General Ferdinand Foch  
   
Made in us
Mysterious Techpriest




The Guilliman books. Cawl keeps begging to be allowed to make Traitor Pimaris, Guilliman says no, and if Cawl does Guilliman will kill him for it. Then they let it drop in this awkward way that kind of implies Cawl already did followed by Grandpapa Smurt admitting he doesn't trust Cawl (Ergo its just a matter of time)....


Which books? Dark Imperium and Plague War? Because as I recall there's maybe one quick section where it's mentioned Cawl would want to try one of the original Legions (who eventually went traitor) but that's really not at all the same as saying "Cawl is gonna make traitor Primaris!" It's an awfully big leap imo. Even for this setting. Especially since Chaos has Bile who is much more likely to have an answer. Or they can just be lazy and say "Chaos Magic", "Warp Exposure", something, something, dark side, and now CSM are bigger. lol

And no one trusts Cawl. That's the beauty of Cawl. His own people don't even trust him.

Edit: I just googled ablutions and apparently it does not including dropping a duece. I should have looked it up early sorry for any confusion. - Baldsmug

Psiensis on the "good old days":
"Kids these days...
... I invented the 6th Ed meta back in 3rd ed.
Wait, what were we talking about again? Did I ever tell you about the time I gave you five bees for a quarter? That's what you'd say in those days, "give me five bees for a quarter", is what you'd say in those days. And you'd go down to the D&D shop, with an onion in your belt, 'cause that was the style of the time. So there I was in the D&D shop..." 
   
Made in fi
Water-Caste Negotiator






I too think the jury on firstborn is still out.

If space marines are GW's bestselling faction, why not just introduce both flavours of marines as equally valid? Primaris for the fans of movie marines and people new to the hobby, and firstborn to us old beards who wax nostalgic about running a 100% beakies marine army..

The only way I see firstborn getting squatted is if they stop selling.. And given just much Horus Heresy has been given sporlight, we will see when that happens. Its possible that GW keeps the firstborn around just to please Horus Heresy players who might prefer a bulk of their legion to be plastic instead of resin.

Its the success of HH that will determine the fate of firstborn more than anything at this point.

This is where I'm placing my bets on.. which is why I'm going to make sure that my firstborn army is also HH compatible as much as possible.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/09/01 14:19:45


 
   
Made in gb
Wight Lord with the Sword of Kings






UK

Breton wrote:
 Super Ready wrote:

That's not *UN*-true... but my Blood Angels have also been waiting patiently for Assault Intercessors since Primaris first appeared. I had a feeling they'd be coming.


They're not Jumpy enough. I can't believe they made assault intercessors and didn't give them jump packs or the option for them.


Probably be stuck as a completely new Primaris unit for that.

I AM A MARINE PLAYER

"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos

"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001

www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/528517.page

A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User





Chapel Hill, North Carolina

 Crusaderobr wrote:
Anyone who thought Primaris was going to " replace " regular Marines, or that regular Marines were going to phase out, well hopefully you all can see that it is simply not true


Well, this sounds like pandering fanboyism. Because Geedubs hasn't phased out tons of other models? GW wants to sell more kits; it's how they make money. That's understandable, but it is obnoxious if you spent hundreds of dollars and hundreds of hours on a set of models, only to be told that they're no longer valid for the hobby and that you have to spend hundreds more dollars and hundreds more hours to keep participating.

As others have pointed out, the decision to keep old marine models in the game (for now) is a response to customer backlash. You're either an apologist or engaging in magical thinking if you imagine that the company will continue making rules support for miniatures they don't sell any longer.

 
   
Made in us
Mutilatin' Mad Dok




Sedona, Arizona

I'm entirely convinced First Born will be gone next edition.

Hear me out.

GW has a lot of standard SM kits. More over they have a lot of money in the molds. So they need to move kits and they also need to make their money back, and what's the fastest way to do that? Well, sell an absolute fuckload of kits.

And they do that by buffing them.

We know for a fact that GW has no problem using rules as a tool to motivate sales, via making sure that new units / specific units are strong enough that they heavily out sell everything else. So making standard marines as good or better than Primaris at a point-for-point level ensures that they'll be able to move a lot of product for the duration of the edition.

After that they can retire the molds, and the entire mini-marine line, having sold off their substantial backend and having gotten their money's worth out of the molds.

 welshhoppo wrote:

I like my Orks how I like my Emperor, dead.
 
   
Made in us
Ancient Ultramarine Venerable Dreadnought






 morganfreeman wrote:
I'm entirely convinced First Born will be gone next edition.
We heard that last edition.

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in au
[MOD]
Making Stuff






Under the couch

Nah, last edition the more common opinion was that this edition would focus on Primaris with Firstborn being shunted into the background, and then removed or pushed into Legends next go around.

It wouldn't have been particularly surprising if they had gone faster and dropped Firstborn into Legends with 9th edition, but few people thought it was likely.

 
   
Made in us
Ancient Ultramarine Venerable Dreadnought






 insaniak wrote:
Nah, last edition the more common opinion was that this edition would focus on Primaris with Firstborn being shunted into the background, and then removed or pushed into Legends next go around.

It wouldn't have been particularly surprising if they had gone faster and dropped Firstborn into Legends with 9th edition, but few people thought it was likely.
Oh I bet you I could find some posts to that effect.

Not going to bother atm, just sayin.

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in au
[MOD]
Making Stuff






Under the couch

Hence my use of the word 'few' rather than 'no'...

 
   
Made in us
Ancient Ultramarine Venerable Dreadnought






 insaniak wrote:
Hence my use of the word 'few' rather than 'no'...
Fair, fair.

Although, I did say that I heard it, not that everyone was saying it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/01 21:03:07


And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in gb
Executing Exarch






My tinfoil hat theory is that this is the last edition for mini marines.

They get brought in line with primaris in terms of wounds/ increased range and very similair point cost eroding the difference between the two. People get to use their mini marines with all the OPness of the current rules paradigm, realising they are basically the same thing as intercessors... GW announces that primaris are "space marines" to cut bloat and axes old marines for the new 10th edition with the primaris being in all intents and purposes a basic space marine and the word primaris ceases to exist. And it gets sort of forgotten about in the fluff..

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/02 00:42:31


https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/772746.page#10378083 - My progress/failblog painting blog thingy

Eldar- 4436 pts


AngryAngel80 wrote:
I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
 
   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





they're not upranging boltguns, the evidance against that is pretty strong.

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in us
Oozing Plague Marine Terminator





Re: OP topic.

True. See: Berzerkers. Eventually we all know it will be replaced, but they dont seem to be in any big rush.

Also see: all elder aspect warrior fans.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/02 05:12:07


 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




 Mr Morden wrote:
Sisters survived when they were mail order AND metal only - I think the truely vast amounts of plastic marines means they will be around for at least a few decades.


The difference being that Sisters are a separate army, rather than a massive increase to an already bloated one.

-b-

This time around, I'm on the bet firstborn are gone next edition guess. If not entirely, at least in legends status.

-b-

In response to the lost model values when mini-marines stop being supported, you might be expecting a bit too much.
Assuming a shorter 3 year 9th edition, we'll have had 6 years of notice to read the writing on the walls.
If you bought a box right as Primaris arrived, most equate to less than $1 a month by the time we get to 10th edition, capping at $1.5 for a Stormraven.
That's if you're using 2020 retail prices for individual units (aka not 2017, discounted, or set prices).
We obviously want as much value as we can wring out of our minis, but that's a reasonable rate even if you're playing one game a month.

That cost/month value only gets better the longer you've had each kit and duration of 9th.
Heck. Even if you bought a kit today, most would still be okay but pushing it in the value department.

-CF
   
Made in de
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

 Insectum7 wrote:
 morganfreeman wrote:
I'm entirely convinced First Born will be gone next edition.
We heard that last edition.

Legend state is certainly an option.
In the meanwhile, Legend is a legal option for GW to shift the game leaving models and units no longer produced behind.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/02 06:31:06


Former moderator 40kOnline

Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!

Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."

Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss 
   
Made in us
Ancient Ultramarine Venerable Dreadnought






 wuestenfux wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:
 morganfreeman wrote:
I'm entirely convinced First Born will be gone next edition.
We heard that last edition.

Legend state is certainly an option.
In the meanwhile, Legend is a legal option for GW to shift the game leaving models and units no longer produced behind.
We'll see. GW seems to be putting in a lot of effort to repackage them all.

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in no
Longtime Dakkanaut






The fact that primaris WAS released and are better then old marines from day1 indicated that old marines ARE going away, noone knows when and that should be the debate.

Had they instead made primaris rulesand stats in the same way they have done different versions of Stormcasts in AoS, noone would belive or think that old marines was beeing removed.


darkswordminiatures.com
gamersgrass.com
Collects: Flames of War/Tanks. Wings/Sails of Glory. Warmachine. SW Armada. Adeptus Titanicus. 
   
Made in de
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

GW: Sept. 1 2020: If you’re playing Warhammer 40,000, you need a plan to kill Space Marines. With all fully fledged Adeptus Astartes going to 2 Wounds, tabletops are in for a considerable shake-up – and we’re here to ensure that you come out on top. Behold, the top 9 units for killing Space Marines!

How many of these top units can you field in your army?
Guilty conscience?

Not very much.

If you play Space Marines, heavy bolters and Bladeguard.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/02 06:50:11


Former moderator 40kOnline

Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!

Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."

Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss 
   
Made in us
Ancient Ultramarine Venerable Dreadnought






 FrozenDwarf wrote:
The fact that primaris WAS released and are better then old marines from day1 indicated that old marines ARE going away, noone knows when and that should be the debate.

Had they instead made primaris rulesand stats in the same way they have done different versions of Stormcasts in AoS, noone would belive or think that old marines was beeing removed.
With original/classic/true marines going to 2W, Primaris lost their biggest advantage over them. Imo the equipment options put the classics squarely ahead in most circumstances. Vanguard well outperform Assault Intercessors for example, and for the moment standard Assault Squads have the advantage too, with sergeant equipment, Flamers/Plasma Pistols, Eviscerators and Jump Packs. We'll see what the codex brings though.

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
 
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