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 Vulcan wrote:
 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Not wanting to tarnish the brand yet still planning to release Ezra Millers flash.......
The cynic in me thinks some sexism might be happening


More likely the budget on Flash was much, much higher. Better to cut the smaller-budget stuff and try to recoup something on the really big-budget films.


Walter Hamada, the current DC boss, came there as a guy with a horror background. And what that genre is mostly about these days is small budgets + moderate box office = big profits. And it shows with most of what he greenlit...BoP, Shazam, Joker, etc. It sounds like the new boss wants big tentpole movies.

Who's right and who's wrong? I dunno. One can point to Joker as something small that blew up, although I think I'd rebut that by saying that film was about a director with a clear vision rather a star vehicle (like BoP and Robbie) that the studio wanted to create. It's interesting to consider that had Aquaman not already been in production when Hamada took over in the wake of BvS, it probably wouldn't have been greenlit by him. And that's an example of a big budget tentpole-style film that ended up with big profits when it broke a billion dollars. And it helped the brand at an important time.

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 AduroT wrote:
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Maybe we’ll see a less Edge Lord DCEU in future. Sure “dark and gritty” (a term which always sets alarms off for me) Batman can work….but that’s about it. Edge Lord, Atlas Shrugged Superman was a bloody waste of Henry Cavill, and for reasons no-one can adequately explain.

Go back to the core of each character. Not the edgiest interpretation. Let Superman be The Big Blue Boy Scout. The one humanity looks up to.


This is the worst part of Black Adam to me. All the marketing with how he’s a down and dirty dude who ain’t afraid to leave destruction in his wake or kill some dudes. Like uuuhhhhh… Have you not been watching the rest of the DC movies? Superman snaps a dude’s neck in his first movie. Wonder Woman blows up a bank to kill a guy who was no real threat to her.

Also is Vin Diesel
Who has a cause in his contract he can never lose a fight in any films he is in.
So the fights will be boring.

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 LunarSol wrote:
This is much much worse in the Synder cut since there's a weird establishing shot added that makes it clear she is inches from him when he fires the initial rounds before he takes the time to flip to full auto to attack the hostages. She has SO much time to disarm him rather than do the crazy block down the line thing in that version. I actually like the Snyder Cut on the whole but this part drives me absolutely crazy.


I like the Snyder Cut so much better than the theatrical cut, and yet my enthusiasm for it falls dramatically whenever I think of everything Snyder had planned to follow it. The hopeful ending is really just a fakeout for all the heel turns and deaths and mutilations to come in the planned sequels.

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 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Cinema takings of late aren’t massively reliable benchmarks due to COVID.

Phase 4 has been, let’s say a bit unfocused. But I still wouldn’t say any MCU entry has been an out and out stinker as such. Eternals may well stick out like a sore thumb in-universe, but it’s still a pretty enjoyable if forgettable movie.

Compare to Suicide Squad and Justice League, which are just pretty rotten films through and through.

Maybe we’ll see a less Edge Lord DCEU in future. Sure “dark and gritty” (a term which always sets alarms off for me) Batman can work….but that’s about it. Edge Lord, Atlas Shrugged Superman was a bloody waste of Henry Cavill, and for reasons no-one can adequately explain.

Go back to the core of each character. Not the edgiest interpretation. Let Superman be The Big Blue Boy Scout. The one humanity looks up to.

I think it comes to alot of stories forgetting the Dynamic of Clark and superman.
Batman identifies as Batman, Bruce Wayne is his alter ego
Its kinda the opposite for superman. Clark Kent is the real entity, while Superman is more of a show he puts on. Clark does believe in the stuff Superman says, he isnt lying, but its a show where its turned up to 11.
Every recent superman movie has focused on only superman and barely Clark as a character. That is the problem
Supergirl and Lois and Clark got him right IMO

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 hotsauceman1 wrote:
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Cinema takings of late aren’t massively reliable benchmarks due to COVID.

Phase 4 has been, let’s say a bit unfocused. But I still wouldn’t say any MCU entry has been an out and out stinker as such. Eternals may well stick out like a sore thumb in-universe, but it’s still a pretty enjoyable if forgettable movie.

Compare to Suicide Squad and Justice League, which are just pretty rotten films through and through.

Maybe we’ll see a less Edge Lord DCEU in future. Sure “dark and gritty” (a term which always sets alarms off for me) Batman can work….but that’s about it. Edge Lord, Atlas Shrugged Superman was a bloody waste of Henry Cavill, and for reasons no-one can adequately explain.

Go back to the core of each character. Not the edgiest interpretation. Let Superman be The Big Blue Boy Scout. The one humanity looks up to.

I think it comes to alot of stories forgetting the Dynamic of Clark and superman.
Batman identifies as Batman, Bruce Wayne is his alter ego
Its kinda the opposite for superman. Clark Kent is the real entity, while Superman is more of a show he puts on. Clark does believe in the stuff Superman says, he isnt lying, but its a show where its turned up to 11.
Every recent superman movie has focused on only superman and barely Clark as a character. That is the problem
Supergirl and Lois and Clark got him right IMO


In the comics, it's been both at different times. The big change happened at the Crisis. The Silver and Bronze Age Supes used bumbling Clark as a cover for his true, Kryptonian god identity. After the Crisis, he became Clark, the son of Jonathan and Martha first, with Superman being something he wears at times.

I'd say Man of Steel is the first post-Crisis, Clark-first version we've seen on the big screen. He explicitly doesn't want to be an alien with superpowers, and his arc in movie is about him accepting his Kryptonian heritage and responsibility. Lois and Clark previously did it on TV as you pointed out. But Chris Reeve's version was very much in the Silver/Bronze age tradition, and then Superman Returns unfortunately kept that going even though it wasn't a modern take anymore. I still maintain that MoS suffered a little bit because it had to break some of the eggs that Superman Returns didn't.


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 hotsauceman1 wrote:

I think it comes to alot of stories forgetting the Dynamic of Clark and superman.
Batman identifies as Batman, Bruce Wayne is his alter ego
Its kinda the opposite for superman. Clark Kent is the real entity, while Superman is more of a show he puts on. Clark does believe in the stuff Superman says, he isnt lying, but its a show where its turned up to 11.
Every recent superman movie has focused on only superman and barely Clark as a character. That is the problem
Supergirl and Lois and Clark got him right IMO


As much as I like Tarentino, the Kill Bill speech definitely further derailed the character for a lot of people. Superman can do anything; he doesn't have any material wants. All of his real conflicts are emotional.

He doesn't tell Lois who he is because he wants Lois to love Clark Kent.

His pride is in his writing more than any of his world saving feats because that kind of success is proof of people accepting his thoughts and ideas and personality. The real Clark.

He's insecure as Clark because he's putting his true self out there and fully aware of how painful that kind of rejection is.

He fundamentally takes no pride in his physical talents because he has no means of connecting with others at that level. His bonds are formed at the emotional and intellectual levels. The things that make him human.
   
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 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
As a wider consideration of Streets Closed For Filming, the exact location is going to matter too.

Cockburn Street for instance is the quickest way from Waverley Station up to the Royal Mile, via Fleshmarket Close. And it has various pubs and food places. If that bit is closed off, the businesses lose more foot traffic than you might think, as folk arriving at the station would need to go over George IVth Bridge.


Hah! also the quickest route to a heart attack... those stairs! Royal Mile properties are amazing in that you go in on one side straight from the street, and you're on the 6th floor on the other side!

Please excuse any spelling errors. I use a tablet frequently and software keyboards are a pain!

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And the Batgirl story takes an interesting turn.

'Batgirl directors receive support from Kevin Feige, James Gunn, and Edgar Wright after film's shelving' - Entertainment Weekly


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Having been out for the evening stroll a dose of direct sunlight caused my troll brain to think maybe its a PR bait and switch and WB suits will cater to fans demands (this demand doesnt really need to happen either), way more buzz than a handful of 2/3 star reviews and a handful of "grrl super powa" articles

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 Turnip Jedi wrote:
Having been out for the evening stroll a dose of direct sunlight caused my troll brain to think maybe its a PR bait and switch and WB suits will cater to fans demands (this demand doesnt really need to happen either), way more buzz than a handful of 2/3 star reviews and a handful of "grrl super powa" articles


I'd believe that based on the huge number of comic movie face book shills I am bombarded with daily. "Fans demand bal bla bla." and the comments are usually mostly in the opposite direction but these adds persist. It feels like they are manufacturing an opinion by simply stating many people want X. Even of no one really does. The same with all the outrage headlines, which for some reason have not gone away and I've never seen proof they work in a positive.

I thought Michael Keaton was going to be in this Bat lady movie. If he was then I hope he had a good contract and got paid.

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 warhead01 wrote:
 Turnip Jedi wrote:
Having been out for the evening stroll a dose of direct sunlight caused my troll brain to think maybe its a PR bait and switch and WB suits will cater to fans demands (this demand doesnt really need to happen either), way more buzz than a handful of 2/3 star reviews and a handful of "grrl super powa" articles


I'd believe that based on the huge number of comic movie face book shills I am bombarded with daily. "Fans demand bal bla bla." and the comments are usually mostly in the opposite direction but these adds persist. It feels like they are manufacturing an opinion by simply stating many people want X. Even of no one really does. The same with all the outrage headlines, which for some reason have not gone away and I've never seen proof they work in a positive.

I thought Michael Keaton was going to be in this Bat lady movie. If he was then I hope he had a good contract and got paid.


The 'outrage' reading seems to be much higher in this case than the 'actual interest in this movie' reading ever was.

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 gorgon wrote:
 warhead01 wrote:
 Turnip Jedi wrote:
Having been out for the evening stroll a dose of direct sunlight caused my troll brain to think maybe its a PR bait and switch and WB suits will cater to fans demands (this demand doesnt really need to happen either), way more buzz than a handful of 2/3 star reviews and a handful of "grrl super powa" articles


I'd believe that based on the huge number of comic movie face book shills I am bombarded with daily. "Fans demand bal bla bla." and the comments are usually mostly in the opposite direction but these adds persist. It feels like they are manufacturing an opinion by simply stating many people want X. Even of no one really does. The same with all the outrage headlines, which for some reason have not gone away and I've never seen proof they work in a positive.

I thought Michael Keaton was going to be in this Bat lady movie. If he was then I hope he had a good contract and got paid.


The 'outrage' reading seems to be much higher in this case than the 'actual interest in this movie' reading ever was.


I think you're probably right. I'm just disgusted at having all of that shown to me because BF thinks it's a good idea. They're doing the same kind of thing with the flash. I think it's more a case that no one actually cares so they're whipping the algo to get people to care. I expected nothing from Bat lady but haring Keaton was going to be back as Batman for some reason sounded like it might be worth my time just for that, he's my favorite Batman. Although they probably rolled him out to kill him off or something equally dumb.


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So, part 3:




More details over the Batgirl cancellation.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

Also is Vin Diesel
Who has a cause in his contract he can never lose a fight in any films he is in.
So the fights will be boring.
It's worse than that. Both him and The Rock have contract requirements on the amount of times they can take hits during fights.

Unless that's apocrypha, but given that the rest is true...

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Supergirl and Lois and Clark got him right IMO
Supergirl treated Superman like a jobber in WWE.

Superman & Lois is what gets Superman right, as the biggest problems he faces are the ones he can't punch or laser-eye his way out of.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2022/08/06 02:50:50


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I didn’t even know a Batgirl movie was even planned, let alone already done filming. I heard nothing about it until this thread and other assorted geek media tubers and sites reported.

Probably a wise choice, since the new leadership will probably not want any stinkers from the previous regime falling on their shoulders.

Distressing to hear the HBO Max stuff, as I feel its the best streaming service out there for my tastes.

Edit: Looked into the HBO Max thing found this interesting quote thats allayed my fears (so far):

As far as other changes, kids and family programming is no longer a priority for the new company. CFO Gunnar Wiedenfels mentioned on the earnings call that they are unlikely to pursue new projects, although the company has a library of content from "Looney Tunes" to "Animaniacs."

Zaslav also addressed worries that HBO will cut back on the number of shows it produces. "We’re going to spend significantly more on the HBO Max product," he said. "We're going to spend more money on content. We're a content company." (He did not elaborate on whether that means fewer but costlier shows).

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/08/07 04:34:37


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I’m hopeful the pending reboot is going to take a leaf from Spider-man Homecoming and skip the bloody origin story.

We the audience know Supes is Kryptonian. We know Batman is a spoiled rich boy who enjoys beating up the poor (that’s bait ) etc, so we really don’t need that tale telling again, just as we didn’t need to see Peter Parker get bitten and lose his Uncle and be told great power great responsibility.

And pleeeeeease don’t go the Dark and Poopy route. You’ve tried that with….mixed results. Let them be heroic. I mean, consider the bit in Avengers Assemble, where Cap gives the Policeman orders. Policeman sort of scoffs, asking who Cap is to give orders. Cap immediately kicks ass, Cop Follows Cap’s plan.

Batman can do that. Superman can certainly do that. No branding criminals. No Bat-tank with illegal, lethal weapons. No flying through buildings and trashing the city. No Maaaaarthaaaa “your Mom has the same name as my Mom we should stop fighting and party because clearly that makes us like brothers and stuff I like Pogs do you collect Pogs my Pog collection is great I bet it’s bigger than your Pog collection” tripe.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/08/07 06:11:05


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Im taking the bait.
We could do a batman that takes off of that. What is a superhero now that we as a society are more sympathetic towards people comitteing low-level crime?
Maybe batman starts off like that, fighting the same crime that killed his family, petty low level crime. He grew up surrounded by people who exploit the poor and thought nothing of it. Funds a police force that foucuses on the low level crime.
But as he grows to realize that crime is a symptom, not a cause. A symptom of the corruption and exploitation of Gotham ruling upper crust. And that is how he starts tackling problems systematically
Then he teams up with poison IVy to kill them all with plants IDK, im not a writer.

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Well, Batman does very specifically fund social initiatives and programs to deal with the issues that create crime to begin with.

There is a story where it is revealed that he has all these black boxes in the underground power network. They boost and reinforce the network in the city so that the poorer areas don't suffer black outs and gak (while also allowing him to disable cameras and such so he can't be tracked).

I think The Batman is the movie that got Batmans early years the most right. He realizes just going after criminals doesn't work. He needs to do and be more to make an actual change. Don't just chase symptoms but address root cause.


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 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:


Batman can do that. Superman can certainly do that. No branding criminals. No Bat-tank with illegal, lethal weapons. No flying through buildings and trashing the city. No Maaaaarthaaaa “your Mom has the same name as my Mom we should stop fighting and party because clearly that makes us like brothers and stuff I like Pogs do you collect Pogs my Pog collection is great I bet it’s bigger than your Pog collection” tripe.


The Martha line was corny, but it was about Superman being humanized in Batman's eyes, not them being brothers. The name simply got his attention and he realized that Superman has real human connections/relationships and empathy.

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trexmeyer wrote:
 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:


Batman can do that. Superman can certainly do that. No branding criminals. No Bat-tank with illegal, lethal weapons. No flying through buildings and trashing the city. No Maaaaarthaaaa “your Mom has the same name as my Mom we should stop fighting and party because clearly that makes us like brothers and stuff I like Pogs do you collect Pogs my Pog collection is great I bet it’s bigger than your Pog collection” tripe.


The Martha line was corny, but it was about Superman being humanized in Batman's eyes, not them being brothers. The name simply got his attention and he realized that Superman has real human connections/relationships and empathy.


I think you and I are the only people on the planet that got that...

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 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Im taking the bait.
We could do a batman that takes off of that. What is a superhero now that we as a society are more sympathetic towards people comitteing low-level crime?
Maybe batman starts off like that, fighting the same crime that killed his family, petty low level crime. He grew up surrounded by people who exploit the poor and thought nothing of it. Funds a police force that foucuses on the low level crime.
But as he grows to realize that crime is a symptom, not a cause. A symptom of the corruption and exploitation of Gotham ruling upper crust. And that is how he starts tackling problems systematically
Then he teams up with poison IVy to kill them all with plants IDK, im not a writer.


That’d be a much better take on it for sure. And be the common ground Supes finds with Bats, given Batman does largely break the law when taking down criminals (I mean, he gives a kicking well beyond the realms of Reasonable Force).

Show that Bruce Wayne isn’t just a spoiled angry brat. That he is trying to make the difference to stop folk turning to crime. Perhaps leave some ambiguity as to whether Batman gets a kick out of the kicking he dishes out.

Go for a Cap/Iron Man dynamic ala the MCU. The Futurist vs The Man Out Of Time was somewhat underplayed, but it is there as a constant thread running through the various movies. Checks and balances on each other. Both parties blinkered in their own ways, but together tending to make competent calls.

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 Lance845 wrote:

I think The Batman is the movie that got Batmans early years the most right. He realizes just going after criminals doesn't work. He needs to do and be more to make an actual change. Don't just chase symptoms but address root cause.


The Batman is a Bruce Wayne origin story.
   
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 Just Tony wrote:


The Martha line was corny, but it was about Superman being humanized in Batman's eyes, not them being brothers. The name simply got his attention and he realized that Superman has real human connections/relationships and empathy.


I think you and I are the only people on the planet that got that...


You're not.
That I (and others) understood the aim didn't change the fact it was poor writing in a fairly crap movie. Or that it deserves to be mocked.
   
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But it wasn't, and it doesn't. Let's be real here, the DC films get mocked more for not being Marvel films than they do anything else. It's also funny when some Marvel films have the same flaws as some DC films they get a pass when the DC films get eviscerated. Most of the complaining about those movies have been Flanderized to the point that they don't even register with the actual faults they call out.

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Seems Ezra Miller is in the poo again. This time charged with felony burglary….

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 Just Tony wrote:
But it wasn't, and it doesn't. Let's be real here, the DC films get mocked more for not being Marvel films than they do anything else. It's also funny when some Marvel films have the same flaws as some DC films they get a pass when the DC films get eviscerated. Most of the complaining about those movies have been Flanderized to the point that they don't even register with the actual faults they call out.


It really was. I remember being at the cinema and when that line dropped, a good portion of the viewers burst out in laughter. It was bad. And the majority of DC movies get mocked is because they are bloody awful.
   
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 Just Tony wrote:
Let's be real here, the DC films get mocked more for not being Marvel films than they do anything else.
That's not why they get mocked.

DC tried to sprint before they could crawl, and paid the price. There's a reason why they need the dreaded Axe of Zaslav to get things back on track.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/08/09 10:22:12


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DC get mocked for not only missing the point of their characters, but some woeful miscasting (Jared Leto. Why anyone ever hires him, given he’s entirely devoid of charisma and talent, I don’t know).

Remember. The MCU took a bunch of characters relatively unknown to General Public, and worked with that. They got actors who fit the roles and convince in them.

When a new MCU film comes out, we ask the question “will it be as good as X”, where X is another film in the stable seen a close fit to the expected tone.

DCEU? People ask “oh god tell it’ll be better than Justice League” etc.

Man of Steel for instance is….boring. That’s a pretty cardinal sin for any movie, but especially when you’re trying to get the same level of Audience love as your rival. And when we’re bored, we nit pick, because you’ve provided nothing to distract us. Example? Why did Zod insist Lois Lane be taken on his ship? Seemingly just so Russel Crowe could bust her out of Super Prison, to move the plodding, dull, achingly boring plot along. At the arthritic pace of a three legged donkey dragging a meteorite shackled to its leg uphill.

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 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
DC get mocked for not only missing the point of their characters, but some woeful miscasting (Jared Leto. Why anyone ever hires him, given he’s entirely devoid of charisma and talent, I don’t know)
Well, there is Morbius...
   
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 Just Tony wrote:
But it wasn't, and it doesn't. Let's be real here, the DC films get mocked more for not being Marvel films than they do anything else. It's also funny when some Marvel films have the same flaws as some DC films they get a pass when the DC films get eviscerated. Most of the complaining about those movies have been Flanderized to the point that they don't even register with the actual faults they call out.

The DC films get mocked for generally not being very good. Wonder Woman is pretty well-liked, so it's hardly a universal anti-DC thing. There have been a bunch of Marvel movies that have also been critically slated - Thor 2 and Iron Man 3 spring immediately to mind - so there's hardly universal love for that franchise either.

The Martha line is just bad writing. I don't think the problem is people not understanding the human connection angle. It's how ham-fisted it is.
   
 
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