Warhammer Quest: Darkwater

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**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

BSF was kinda of an anomalous.

Up until that point, Quest had always been a Fantasy game.

**deano2099**

BSF was definitely an experiment. But by any measure it was a hugely successful one.

**tauist**

What a relief to see its not a 40K boxed game! My piles of shame will be safe. I still got most of my BSF stuff shrinkwrapped, I wouldnt have storage for any more 40K Quest stuff..

I do love the cover art of this one. It looks retro, but anatomically correct and technically modern and refined. A great combination if I may say so

**Inquisitor Gideon**

Now that i've gotten a chance to look at the art properly, i can see the AoS side of things a lot more. The "Bret" is carrying a Freeguild shield, the lion embossment on the shield and the head and wings on the helmet look like a reference to Tahlia and her Manticore. And the breastplate has the Sigmar "S" in it and the axe has the comet. It's more subtle, but obvious if you know what you're looking at.

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

I’m wondering if the more…subdued? Generic? Box Art might be an attempt to broaden appeal in board game stores?

It’s not a complete thought, just something that’s been flirting around my head. Like an attempt to draw the eye and tempt the picket of those that might normally purposefully ignore a GW product?

**Inquisitor Gideon**

If that's the case, they risk getting drowned out in the legion of other fantasy dungeon divers.

**His Master's Voice**

Why would GW bother to appeal to people who purposefully avoid their products when they can't get enough product in the hands of people who want it.

I doubt GW thinks about the board game market much at all. It's probably just the amorphousness of AoS as a setting allowing them to crank up the nostalgia factor of the already deeply nostalgic Quest product line.

**Necronmaniac05**

I don't think this will get released in stores other than GW stores. This looks to me to be a bit like Silver Tower and Cursed City (or at least what was intended for CC) in that it is a way for them to launch the new Nurgle product line while also tapping into the nostalgia/Interest for modern WHQ games.

I don't mind that as Silver Tower was great. However, I do hope they support the game post launch for a bit like BSF got.

**HidaO-Win**

I'm interested to see what Warhammer Quest: Still in AoS, honest! does, but every new iteration has disappointed as they keep insisting on pruning back the secret sauce of the game; progression, because it's extremely difficult to balance.

Warhammer Quest 1995, Bloodbowl, Gorkamorka, Mordheim all had progression as a core aspect and that was the element that made them work as campaign games. They've peeled them back to almost nothing in most of their modern gamelines, (Necromunda and Bloodbowl are the exception) and it really hurts the appeal.

**The Phazer**

His Master's Voice wrote:
Why would GW bother to appeal to people who purposefully avoid their products when they can't get enough product in the hands of people who want it.

I doubt GW thinks about the board game market much at all. It's probably just the amorphousness of AoS as a setting allowing them to crank up the nostalgia factor of the already deeply nostalgic Quest product line.

I dunno, that cover is pretty clearly trying to go for a Hero Quest vibe.

**His Master's Voice**

The Phazer wrote:
I dunno, that cover is pretty clearly trying to go for a Hero Quest vibe.

Eh, not enough power squatting.

In any case, yeah, nostalgia. GW has plenty and they know it sells.

**Cyel**

HidaO-Win wrote:
I'm interested to see what Warhammer Quest: Still in AoS, honest! does, but every new iteration has disappointed as they keep insisting on pruning back the secret sauce of the game; progression, because it's extremely difficult to balance.

Warhammer Quest 1995, Bloodbowl, Gorkamorka, Mordheim all had progression as a core aspect and that was the element that made them work as campaign games. They've peeled them back to almost nothing in most of their modern gamelines, (Necromunda and Bloodbowl are the exception) and it really hurts the appeal.

Other games make up for this though. For example Gloomhaven, Tidal Blades2 have wonderful, extremely addictive and satisfying progression systems as do Aeons Tresspass: Odyssey or Oathsworn. A scenario-driven tactical skirmish with progression is probably one of the most popular board game genres on KS and there are gems there that really put to shame what GW tries to sell as state-of-the-art game design.

**HidaO-Win**

Cyel wrote:
HidaO-Win wrote:
I'm interested to see what Warhammer Quest: Still in AoS, honest! does, but every new iteration has disappointed as they keep insisting on pruning back the secret sauce of the game; progression, because it's extremely difficult to balance.

Warhammer Quest 1995, Bloodbowl, Gorkamorka, Mordheim all had progression as a core aspect and that was the element that made them work as campaign games. They've peeled them back to almost nothing in most of their modern gamelines, (Necromunda and Bloodbowl are the exception) and it really hurts the appeal.

Other games make up for this though. For example Gloomhaven, Tidal Blades2 have wonderful, extremely addictive and satisfying progression systems as do Aeons Tresspass: Odyssey or Oathsworn. A scenario-driven tactical skirmish with progression is probably one of the most popular board game genres on KS and there are gems there that really put to shame what GW tries to sell as state-of-the-art game design.

Oh yeah GW are badly out of date on cutting edge design, it's just frustrating they cut what is actually the best part of their games because its hard to design for.

**The_Real_Chris**

I would be quite keen to know the rules set and campaign before getting this. Blackstone got samey fast. Cursed city I was incredibly relieved my order got cancelled after I actually played it.

Necronmaniac05 wrote:
Hellebore wrote:
Well that is an exceedingly generic WFB-esque DnD cover.

There's nothing in that image that says AOS at all and barely anything that says warhammer. the plague guys are so similar in colour to the background they disappear.

It actually reminds me of the kind of art the talisman boardgames from BI and FFG used to have.

Do we know if they're sticking with the mechanics? I've avoided all versions since they Redid them

I doubt they will make significant changes to how the game works. I fully expect it to be a co-operative dungeon crawler (no 'games master' type role like Shadows over Hammerhal) with an 'activation dice' core mechanic and custom D6, D8 and D12 action dice. I honestly can't see them doing anything other than that and certainly nothing like what the old 1995 Warhammer Quest game was with all the expansive RPG type elements. That said, I do hope they release some sort of bestiary type book supplement with game stats/rules for more baddies and some solid rules for one off games outside of whatever the campaign looks like for this as that is important for replayability. As has been previously said, dungeon crawlers really thrive with real variety of enemies so while I would not be unhappy with hero pack expansions I still think a bestiary book would be even better.

**Dryaktylus**

If the setting is 'fighting plague-ridden guys in the sewers' I hope there's a Clan Pestilens expansion.

**Shakalooloo**

I hope there's a Pirates of Darkwater expansion.

**SamusDrake**

That would be funny.

**frankelee**

I think they didn't go back to 40K for a Quest game because you lot would just buy it and use the hero models to stand in for characters that you're supposed to be buying for $35 a pop. That's all well and good for Age of Sigmar, because at least you're buying something, but why cannibalize their own sales?

I think people are reading way too much into what bland, corporate board room, art by committee artwork looks like. It looks uninspired and overly safe because the artist received heavy handed direction and just made the boring painting like the bosses said to.

**Hellebore**

Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
Now that i've gotten a chance to look at the art properly, i can see the AoS side of things a lot more. The "Bret" is carrying a Freeguild shield, the lion embossment on the shield and the head and wings on the helmet look like a reference to Tahlia and her Manticore. And the breastplate has the Sigmar "S" in it and the axe has the comet. It's more subtle, but obvious if you know what you're looking at.

None of those are unique to AOS though. They were all empire motifs before the freeguild existed.

**Inquisitor Gideon**

And? That's what they're stylised in the setting and the S and Freeguild shield in particular are specifically AoS in design.

**chaos0xomega**

Mod edit - removed.

**Porsenna**

The thing I'm most excited for is that there is no stormcast plastered on the cover.

**Hellebore**

Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
And? That's what they're stylised in the setting and the S and Freeguild shield in particular are specifically AoS in design.

they were on empire models first. Sigmars s has alwsys been there. The order of the golden lion has a range of lion head motifs including one that looks just like that:
https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Order_of_the_Gold_Lion?file=Emblem_of_the_Gold_Lion.jpg

I would have just liked some of the more unique features of if AOS more visible. As I said in my original post. It's kind of DnD bland, it just looks pretty generic fantasy. More so than I would have expected especially for an AOS branded product.

Maybe the uniqueness will be in the terrain or boards? Realm gate shenanigans or something.

**lord_blackfang**

That party really could be on the box cover of literally any setting agnostic dungeon crawler on the market, there's nothing that makes it AoS, there's not even anything that makes it GW.

**schoon**

For WQ:CC players, isn't this technically an expansion that allows you to take your city quest into the sewers beneath (if you squint very hard).

And as for the generic nature of the cover, they're trying to market this to the broadest fantasy audience they can, not just Warhammer players, for the holidays.

Don't necessarily agree, but understandable.

**lord_blackfang**

schoon wrote:
For WQ:CC players, isn't this technically an expansion that allows you to take your city quest into the sewers beneath (if you squint very hard).

If the rules are close enough that you can mix heroes...

**Dryaktylus**

lord_blackfang wrote:
That party really could be on the box cover of literally any setting agnostic dungeon crawler on the market, there's nothing that makes it AoS, there's not even anything that makes it GW.

Wait till you see the other heroes. The Locust Bard, who plays songs with his legs and jumps over the whole board. The Sewage Elemental that can possess water corpses and goes to the next if the host is destroyed. And of course the Sponge Magician who filters the water to create feces golems while at the same time weakens the Nurgle guys who are not used to clean water.

**flaherty**

lord_blackfang wrote:
That party really could be on the box cover of literally any setting agnostic dungeon crawler on the market, there's nothing that makes it AoS, there's not even anything that makes it GW.

I think this is a strength in some ways. GW makes the best minis. They should just make the best version of a fantasy dungeon crawler possible. AOS is on a negative trajectory, there's no point in worrying about legally distinct trade names and goofy, bespoke takes on elves and dwarves for a game that's headed to the specialist games studio.

**Jammer87**

flaherty wrote:
lord_blackfang wrote:
That party really could be on the box cover of literally any setting agnostic dungeon crawler on the market, there's nothing that makes it AoS, there's not even anything that makes it GW.

I think this is a strength in some ways. GW makes the best minis. They should just make the best version of a fantasy dungeon crawler possible. AOS is on a negative trajectory, there's no point in worrying about legally distinct trade names and goofy, bespoke takes on elves and dwarves for a game that's headed to the specialist games studio.

Do you have any proof AOS is on a negative trajectory? Or is this just your disdain for AOS showing?

**Inquisitor Gideon**

Ignore bait when it makes an appearance.