Beasts of Chaos thread...

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**Neconilis**

They're more hyena like, not wolves.

**Chaoslord**

By gods, those razorgors are awful...

It seems that during this millenium, whenever there's a real stinker figure in the GW lineup (monsters in particular), the Morrisons are to blame. It's not that they are totally unable to produce at least decent miniatures, but have some quality control for heaven's sake.

**lasgunpacker**

Therion wrote:Well I kept repeating myself about this subject already back in the days of Portent.net. Gary Morley and Aly & Trish Morrison sculpt (in my opinion) absolutely horrible miniatures by GW's modern standards. Trish usually gets to sculpt the animals and monsters and has (in my opinion) miserably failed every single time apart from the unrealistic and weird-but-still-cool-looking Carnosaur. The other two can't sculpt faces without making females look like transvestites or monsters, and the way they pose the models are straight from the early 1990's. I believe the only model by either of them that is still used and generally liked is Prince Tyrion which seems to have been a one hit wonder. The reason they have been able to keep their jobs (in my opinion) has to have something to do with their long standing work history at the company instead of the actual results.

People were predicting a massive 'Beastfail' already when they heard about the sculptor lineup for the release, and although I wouldn't call all of the models absolutely useless they certainly aren't even close to what I've come to expect from Citadel Miniatures. Juan Diaz, Jes Goodwin and Alex Hedström are all household names I hold to a very high regard. Seb Perbet and Brian Nelson are very talented too, although Nelson's work is sometimes a bit more inspired than some other times. Feel free to disagree, and I'm sure there are exceptions to everything.

All three of them have made SOME good models, e.g. for the LotR line.

However, plenty of stinkers have been produced, particularly in the range of monsters and dragons, miniatures which should be the iconic center of any army, not the ignored.

Maybe the design team should be pared back to just the Perrys, Brian Nelson, and Jes... sure, we would wait longer for figures, but at least they would be good ones when they came out.

**Buttlerthepug**

Hmmm I dont think the "sculpting" on the razorgors are bad at all... the concept? Oh yeah... but hell i couldnt scuplt anything like that if i tryd to. I still will probably stick to using the karanak model for them if its the right size... anyone know how big it is compared to them?

**cygnnus**

Finally saw some Minotaurs in person today. Yes, they do look better than those horrible studio paint jobs make 'em look, but they're still, IMHO, still FAR below what one would hope to see, especially when folks like Avatars of War, among others, are around.

Vale,

JohnS

**grobbicull**

I have to agree with Buttlerthepug: good execution, bad concept. I think the Razorgor would be a really great addition to the VC army, it meshes well with their new direwolves. I just don't think that it particularly matches the Beasts army that well. I am still on the fence over the minotaurs, I need to see them in more traditional beasty colours before I make my judgement (I used to hate the old models, then I saw them up close and really like them now, so we'll see).

As for the rules, from what I have heard this will be a solid book, meant to compete with the majority of the others, while not joining in the powercreep. And I say good job GW. It is easy to keep pumping out more and more powerfull lists, it takes guts to put out a book that is going to perform on par with an average codex. Leave the three WAACy armies alone, and let the new edition sort them out (fear rules changes would severely weaken all 3).

**Cheese Elemental**

Lunahound wrote:I not sure what Gnolls are , but they look like wolves? im using these:

What? But weren't you a Warcraft player? Gnolls are those hyena/wolf people (it depends on the setting), and they've been around since the early days of D&D.

**LunaHound**

Alliance FTW

**Buttlerthepug**

LunaHound wrote:Alliance FTW

No...no! Unacceptable in the extreme! Just...NO!!!!! AHHHHHHH...

Horde

**G_Model101**

They are waxing lyrical about the Razorgor's in the new WD. Something about the vision of them having slabs of over the top muscle with lots of spikes and then more spikes thrown on top in a "typical Warhammer fashion".

But those bug eyes.....they are like Andrewsarchus on steroids, just plain wrong!

**Llamahead**

I've started a thread on alternative Beastmen miniatures in the Warhammer Discussion box it seemed to me far more constructive than just whinging! Any suggestions bung them there!

**gorgon**

Miniatures like the Razorgor are just a reminder that GW views its products as stuff for *children*. Having said that, I think even 8-year-olds will laugh at it. Still, for some reason I like it more than the Minos. The Razorgor is so over-the-top bad that it's somehow...good. Well okay, not good at all, but at least a conversation piece along the lines of Nagash.

The Minos on the other hand, aren't bad enough to come out around the other end. They're just stuck solidly in "bad". I've seen them in person. And sure, in grey plastic they look slightly better, if still ridiculous. However, I feel like when they're painted all those silly muscles are going to "pop" again unless you stick with some really subtle shading. I think I have enough of the metal Minos, thank god.

I know the Bestigors have their critics, but those sprues seem just fine to me. If the Minos and Razorgor were to their quality, it'd be a darn good range, really.

**Kanluwen**

Except once again, that ridiculous expression doesn't come standard.

It really is the eyes giving the Razorgor that comical effect.

Yeah, the models themselves aren't that great--but they're not a big honking joke model like it's made out to be.

**Alpharius**

Kanluwen wrote:Except once again, that ridiculous expression doesn't come standard.

It really is the eyes giving the Razorgor that comical effect.

Yeah, the models themselves aren't that great--but they're not a big honking joke model like it's made out to be.

Actually, I think they might be.

Seriously, they are NOT up to the recent GW 'standard'.

**Kanluwen**

I still maintain that it's the eyes really throwing them off, much like it was the overaccentuated paintjob on the Minotaurs doing the same.

Or heck, look at the Land Speeder Storm. People complained that it looked far, far, far too toylike when it was shown as bare plastic.

**Railguns**

The painters probably used the paint job to make what was an outright downsy model a great ironic joke about GW miniature design.

**JOHIRA**

Kanluwen wrote:I still maintain that it's the eyes really throwing them off, much like it was the overaccentuated paintjob on the Minotaurs doing the same.

We'll have to respectfully agree to vehemently disagree then. Say I'm overly confident in my ability to identify 3-dimensional shapes in a 2-dimensional image, but I don't agree with you. I think the whole models are bad, from concept to finished product, from stupid facial expression to the tip of their clown-tails. I cannot believe that any paint job can save those models. Even if Bongo, the god of model painting, came down from Olympus and put a perfect paint job on these, they would still be the worst models Games Workshop has ever made. Worse than Lamartes. Worse than the Dark Eldar Warp Beasts. Worse than Nagash.

But feel free to prove me wrong. Paint one up and post it here. Maybe that could even be the theme of a Dakka painting challenge- see who can get the most out of the worst model.

**Alpharius**

JOHIRA wrote:
Kanluwen wrote:I still maintain that it's the eyes really throwing them off, much like it was the overaccentuated paintjob on the Minotaurs doing the same.

We'll have to respectfully agree to vehemently disagree then. Say I'm overly confident in my ability to identify 3-dimensional shapes in a 2-dimensional image, but I don't agree with you. I think the whole models are bad, from concept to finished product, from stupid facial expression to the tip of their clown-tails. I cannot believe that any paint job can save those models. Even if Bongo, the god of model painting, came down from Olympus and put a perfect paint job on these, they would still be the worst models Games Workshop has ever made. Worse than Lamartes. Worse than the Dark Eldar Warp Beasts. Worse than Nagash.

But feel free to prove me wrong. Paint one up and post it here. Maybe that could even be the theme of a Dakka painting challenge- see who can get the most out of the worst model.

This is almost a great idea...

...if we could somehow get the Razorgor models FREE.

There is NO WAY anyone should help GW think that hideous thing is at all a success.

A wave of 'counts as' Razorgors should show up at official tournaments worldwide.

Sure, it will not be allowed!

So that's when you just take out your alternative army list, with alternative models, and play away!

Fun is still had, message still sent!

**Sidstyler**

...holy god.

I just...um...I'm going to go away for a while. I don't know when I'll be back...

*stares at the razorgor models for 10 minutes straight without blinking, then turns and slowly walks away while whispering "The horror..." over and over*

**Alpharius**

Sidstyler wrote:...holy god.

I just...um...I'm going to go away for a while. I don't know when I'll be back...

*stares at the razorgor models for 10 minutes straight without blinking, then turns and slowly walks away while whispering "The horror..." over and over*

(Looks at Sid's avatar)

(Realizes Sid's avatar looks like it is looking at the new Razorgor models)

(Laughing begins!)

**Thorgut**

I'm confused. If they're the Razorgors, what's up with the model GW just released?
EDIT: Are these just conversions?

**Morathi's Darkest Sin**

LunaHound wrote:Alliance FTW

+1

As to the Razorgor thingies, omg I haven't laughed that hard in ages, especially with Luna's descriptions. Once again, the blind fella in charge of final approval has let the side down. I knew they shouldn't have hired Bennie 'Snake Eyes' Wilson.

**LunaHound**

Morathi's Darkest Sin wrote:As to the Razorgor thingies, omg I haven't laughed that hard in ages, especially with Luna's descriptions.

Yay!

Back on Topic , i agree with JOHIRA about the "Simpsons Eye ball" on the Razorgors .
because 2D pic or not , "bad" paint job or not , i would like to see anyone make them look not comedic.
Photo shop would suffice .

@Alpharius i found some count as razorgor for you!

**Olaf the Hairy**

[quote

A wave of 'counts as' Razorgors should show up at official tournaments worldwide.

Sure, it will not be allowed!

So that's when you just take out your alternative army list, with alternative models, and play away!

Fun is still had, message still sent! quote] (having some difficulty with the quote funtcion there)

Here are some alternatives.

Hellbeasts by Heresy Miniatures. Those are 40mm bases they are barely fitting on. Imagine them painted like Dobermans.

**The Crippler**

Ok, I have seen the assembled minotaur plastics in person and done a complete 180 on them. They're actually pretty sweet. That was indeed one ridiculous and horrible paint job.

**Waaagh_Gonads**

Thorgut wrote:I'm confused. If they're the Razorgors, what's up with the model GW just released?
EDIT: Are these just conversions?

Yes the unit of razorgors is made up of conversions on the original model.

**Buttlerthepug**

Waaagh_Gonads wrote:
Thorgut wrote:I'm confused. If they're the Razorgors, what's up with the model GW just released?
EDIT: Are these just conversions?

Yes the unit of razorgors is made up of conversions on the original model.

Oh... well then why is there so much fuss about the models... did I miss it or was it never said that they were conversions? I thought they were at first since there was one tail in there I recognized from spawn kit but since i didnt see it mentioned at all I assumed it wasnt a conversion...

**LunaHound**

Inspiration of Minotaur sculpt:

**Buttlerthepug**

Oh gosh... that means that Al gore now infulences gw sculpts? starting with man bear pig?

**LunaHound**

Do you guys feel some skaven models look close enough to beastman to be fielded?

like clan rat for spear ungors
or storm vermin for bestigors