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Yeah, we've asked for the Psychic Powers but since the pics have shown up all over the web now he seems reluctant to share more.

It's ok, he can send them in a private message to me, I'll never tell


And a leak is a leak, leaking a little bit or all of it doesn't matter, he might as well reveal all now and become a hero of the community!

Dionysodorus wrote:
Midnight Sorrow seems potentially very strong for the 6" consolidate. I doubt the extra move when falling back will be a big deal, but 6" pseudo-Fly consolidation means that you're both very good at piling into new units but more importantly it means that you're very good at surrounding models to prevent fall back moves.

Correct me if I'm wrong (and I hope you do, I would love for this to be true), but since the consolidate move must end up closer to the nearest enemy model, doesn't that remove the option of dancing through to the opposite side of a unit to box it in?

Ending closer to a unit includes going over it, since you "end up closer"

So the webway gate doesn't seem great. It allows you to hide units from alpha strike, but doesn't provide much in the way of using it as an assault platform. HOWEVER - there are some juicy stratagems that give some options here. It's gonna take some practice using it as a focus of a list.

gosublanky wrote:
Ending closer to a unit includes going over it, since you "end up closer"

Yeah, but you still need to end closer to the enemy model you're closest to before consolidating. You could perhaps set it up with some tricksy placement during the fight phase but it would all come down to how many models you kill, which ones your opponent decide to remove, and so on... feels unreliable.

Seems like 120 points to deepstrike a unit, and potentially 1 cp as well if you go turn 2. I'm not sold on it asof yet

gosublanky wrote:
Seems like 120 points to deepstrike a unit, and potentially 1 cp as well if you go turn 2. I'm not sold on it asof yet

Depends on the unit. For harlequins, its probably a pass. For Eldar, its not a bad way to save your WK.

gosublanky wrote:
Seems like 120 points to deepstrike a unit, and potentially 1 cp as well if you go turn 2. I'm not sold on it asof yet

It might make for some interesting terrain but the rules aren't great, I'd much rather spend a couple CP on Screaming Jets/ Webway Portal than 120pts on a Webway Gate that can't really be used before turn 2 and can be shut down by you're opponent parking right next to it.

The webway gate is trash and useless for harlequins especially with beta rules. A starweaver will get your troupe up further and more reliably.

It's....a cool scenery kit I suppose?

 mokoshkana wrote:

gosublanky wrote:
Seems like 120 points to deepstrike a unit, and potentially 1 cp as well if you go turn 2. I'm not sold on it asof yet

Depends on the unit. For harlequins, its probably a pass. For Eldar, its not a bad way to save your WK.

We'll have to check. The rules say you have to deploy wholly within 3" of the gate. I'm not even sure it's possible for a WK given the size of its base (which would be ironic given they put the pictures of the WK coming out of the gate everywhere).
It might be possible to have half the base wholly within 3" of one of the two arches, and the other half of the base within 3" of the other arch, but it's going to be a tight fit (and the opponent can completely block your WK getting out with a single model).

fresus wrote:

 mokoshkana wrote:

gosublanky wrote:
Seems like 120 points to deepstrike a unit, and potentially 1 cp as well if you go turn 2. I'm not sold on it asof yet

Depends on the unit. For harlequins, its probably a pass. For Eldar, its not a bad way to save your WK.

We'll have to check. The rules say you have to deploy wholly within 3" of the gate. I'm not even sure it's possible for a WK given the size of its base (which would be ironic given they put the pictures of the WK coming out of the gate everywhere).
It might be possible to have half the base wholly within 3" of one of the two arches, and the other half of the base within 3" of the other arch, but it's going to be a tight fit (and the opponent can completely block your WK getting out with a single model).

I have never so badly wanted to mod a space marine picking his nose just for this purpose.

fresus wrote:

 mokoshkana wrote:

gosublanky wrote:
Seems like 120 points to deepstrike a unit, and potentially 1 cp as well if you go turn 2. I'm not sold on it asof yet

Depends on the unit. For harlequins, its probably a pass. For Eldar, its not a bad way to save your WK.

We'll have to check. The rules say you have to deploy wholly within 3" of the gate. I'm not even sure it's possible for a WK given the size of its base (which would be ironic given they put the pictures of the WK coming out of the gate everywhere).
It might be possible to have half the base wholly within 3" of one of the two arches, and the other half of the base within 3" of the other arch, but it's going to be a tight fit (and the opponent can completely block your WK getting out with a single model).

So you're thinking they created a WK on a base that doesn't fit within the arches? That seems kind of weird, no?

Also, your scenario of one model ruining the webway's potential is possible, but that probably means you didn't plan correctly upfront. A little knowledge and pre-measuring can go a long way.

 mokoshkana wrote:

fresus wrote:

 mokoshkana wrote:

gosublanky wrote:
Seems like 120 points to deepstrike a unit, and potentially 1 cp as well if you go turn 2. I'm not sold on it asof yet

Depends on the unit. For harlequins, its probably a pass. For Eldar, its not a bad way to save your WK.

We'll have to check. The rules say you have to deploy wholly within 3" of the gate. I'm not even sure it's possible for a WK given the size of its base (which would be ironic given they put the pictures of the WK coming out of the gate everywhere).
It might be possible to have half the base wholly within 3" of one of the two arches, and the other half of the base within 3" of the other arch, but it's going to be a tight fit (and the opponent can completely block your WK getting out with a single model).

So you're thinking they created a WK on a base that doesn't fit within the arches? That seems kind of weird, no?

Also, your scenario of one model ruining the webway's potential is possible, but that probably means you didn't plan correctly upfront. A little knowledge and pre-measuring can go a long way.

The base clearly fits between the arches.
But by the rules, every point of the base must be less than 3" away from one of the two arches. As the base is pretty big, I'm not sure that's feasible.
As for blocking the arch, remember you deploy it at the beginning of the game, and it cannot move after that. So unless you flood the area with your models (but somehow leave a big big enough for your WK in the middle of the arch, and somehow prevent any flying model from getting there), it's going to be tough to completely prevent the opponent from messing up with your deployment.
Units with much smaller bases won't have the same issues, but the WK is going to be very difficult to drop in (especially since shutting down a 500pts model is going to be attractive to your opponent).

If the rule was only "within 3" of the arch", like I hoped it would be (since it's what we have for transports), none of these problems would exist.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So, the base is ~4.8"x3.7" (120x92mm). In the Warhammer community picture, the WK barely fits between the two arches, but it looks like a photoshoped picture, so it might be a bit off.
In any case, if the arches are even 5" apart, and you put your WK right in the middle, parts of its base will be over 3" from the arches (I got 3.1" away for the edge of the base in this configuration). So it seems it's impossible to deepstrike a WK with it.
Hopefully I messed up the math or misread something, but if it's really the case, I'm pretty disappointed.

Our basic melee weapons are 0 points?!

Praise Cegorach!

 Robin5t wrote:
Our basic melee weapons are 0 points?!

Praise Cegorach!

And troupers are 13ppm. basic troupers for horde control are a real possibility right now.

 mokoshkana wrote:
For Eldar, its not a bad way to save your WK.

Actually, it might be a way to make your WK MORE expensive and EASIER to kill. If the WW gate is destroyed, units "in it" are considered slain.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the WW gate looks easier to kill than a WK, meaning all the opponent needs to do is kill it before the WK emerges to kill the WK.

Beautiful piece that I will be buying, but never using.

-

EDIT: Scratch that. Mixed up wholly and entirely.

 MasterSpark wrote:

gosublanky wrote:
Ending closer to a unit includes going over it, since you "end up closer"

Yeah, but you still need to end closer to the enemy model you're closest to before consolidating. You could perhaps set it up with some tricksy placement during the fight phase but it would all come down to how many models you kill, which ones your opponent decide to remove, and so on... feels unreliable.

I mean, if I'm 1" away from the rhino im assaulting, hop past it, and end up .75" away, seems pretty doable.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

fresus wrote:

 mokoshkana wrote:

fresus wrote:

 mokoshkana wrote:

gosublanky wrote:
Seems like 120 points to deepstrike a unit, and potentially 1 cp as well if you go turn 2. I'm not sold on it asof yet

Depends on the unit. For harlequins, its probably a pass. For Eldar, its not a bad way to save your WK.

We'll have to check. The rules say you have to deploy wholly within 3" of the gate. I'm not even sure it's possible for a WK given the size of its base (which would be ironic given they put the pictures of the WK coming out of the gate everywhere).
It might be possible to have half the base wholly within 3" of one of the two arches, and the other half of the base within 3" of the other arch, but it's going to be a tight fit (and the opponent can completely block your WK getting out with a single model).

So you're thinking they created a WK on a base that doesn't fit within the arches? That seems kind of weird, no?

Also, your scenario of one model ruining the webway's potential is possible, but that probably means you didn't plan correctly upfront. A little knowledge and pre-measuring can go a long way.

The base clearly fits between the arches.
But by the rules, every point of the base must be less than 3" away from one of the two arches. As the base is pretty big, I'm not sure that's feasible.
As for blocking the arch, remember you deploy it at the beginning of the game, and it cannot move after that. So unless you flood the area with your models (but somehow leave a big big enough for your WK in the middle of the arch, and somehow prevent any flying model from getting there), it's going to be tough to completely prevent the opponent from messing up with your deployment.
Units with much smaller bases won't have the same issues, but the WK is going to be very difficult to drop in (especially since shutting down a 500pts model is going to be attractive to your opponent).

If the rule was only "within 3" of the arch", like I hoped it would be (since it's what we have for transports), none of these problems would exist.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So, the base is ~4.8"x3.7" (120x92mm). In the Warhammer community picture, the WK barely fits between the two arches, but it looks like a photoshoped picture, so it might be a bit off.
In any case, if the arches are even 5" apart, and you put your WK right in the middle, parts of its base will be over 3" from the arches (I got 3.1" away for the edge of the base in this configuration). So it seems it's impossible to deepstrike a WK with it.
Hopefully I messed up the math or misread something, but if it's really the case, I'm pretty disappointed.

Read the FAQ ruling on "wholly within".

GW said it meant "some part of every model in the unit must be within.

For single model units, "within" and "wholly within" are the same, functionally.

I keep seeing this and it just doesn't line up.

From the FAQ:

'Wholly within' "Only applies if the entire unit/model is within."

That tells me the entire unit, base and all needs to be within, down to a single model level.

Just 'Within' "applies so long as any part of the unit/model is within"

So if it was just 'Within' the "as long as part of it is in, it's good" idea would work, but the 'Wholly' in there requires the entire thing.

Points cost leak has made me a bit downcast.

Troupe and character reductions are great. I can't see Skyweavers or Voidweavers being any more viable than now though. Barring some core change to their stats or rules.

For Skyweavers to be good they probably need at least 5-6 attacks base.

I am hoping for Voidweavers to double their shooting with their main gun, which might make them okay. Maybe. Haven't calculated anything. (Oh and they lose the fact the main gun is heavy because its stupid for Eldar. Go to Commorragh and sort yourselves out.)

The rule says 3" wholly within the webway gate, the gate it's not only a single arch but also the space between both.

So i think there is space for a wraithknight to be deployed there ( worth to consider the deploy rule can't be fully seen due the brightness but i think it gives a distance to put each arch otherwise we could mane the gate cover fully a table side and deny deepstrike there.

That said, the Wraithknight should fit if the base is 92mmx120mm. If the edges of his base are in base contact (92mm across) with both arches, he should have more than .025" on either perpendicular side (roughly 121.5mm) at the narrowest point were the Arch circles overlap.

Tyel wrote:
Points cost leak has made me a bit downcast.

Troupe and character reductions are great. I can't see Skyweavers or Voidweavers being any more viable than now though. Barring some core change to their stats or rules.

For Skyweavers to be good they probably need at least 5-6 attacks base.

I am hoping for Voidweavers to double their shooting with their main gun, which might make them okay. Maybe. Haven't calculated anything. (Oh and they lose the fact the main gun is heavy because its stupid for Eldar. Go to Commorragh and sort yourselves out.)

There's no way that some of the vehicle weapon options aren't getting profile changes. Haywire Cannons right now have literally the exact same profile as the Dark Eldar's Haywire Blasters, except they cost 6 points more and are Heavy instead of Assault.

Removed - BrookM

Are the units coming out of the Eldar Webway Gate affected by the Beta rules?

 Red_Five wrote:
Are the units coming out of the Eldar Webway Gate affected by the Beta rules?

RAW yes. They would be.

It's basically a slightly different version of the Stratagem that makes sense with a few heavy units out of Craftworld and coven units...and not at all with Harlequins.

the_scotsman wrote:

 Red_Five wrote:
Are the units coming out of the Eldar Webway Gate affected by the Beta rules?

RAW yes. They would be.

It's basically a slightly different version of the Stratagem that makes sense with a few heavy units out of Craftworld and coven units...and not at all with Harlequins.

The only reason it makes any sense with quins is because they are billed in some cases as "the guardians of the webway". its a lore thing not a practicality thing.

It might be decent for getting 1-2 10 or 12 model troupes on the table in a somewhat reasonable place.

The Troupe Master went up 11pts so I hope his stats reflect that.

The Silent Shroud is certainly the choice for anyone running a freakshow, using as many Ld debuffs as possible and just causing a few wounds. Of course, the armies that basically ignore morale will just laugh at this. Nice strategem to ignore overwatch too, super easy to use with skyweavers to lock down a big shooty unit.

Not sure on the webway gate yet, will definitely get one for my Eldar.....getting 2 wraithlords out of it seems fun.

Another thing to take in to mind is that you are giving up two detachments.

One for the fortification network for the building and one super-heavy detachment to get a wraith knight in.

So costing 120 points, 1 CP most likely, and 2 detachments to deepstrike a wraith knight along side your Harlequin army. Which also means you are stuck at 4 CP for the game as well