VIGILUS Weekender - 24th november.. page#7 new minis

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**CthuluIsSpy**

Niiai wrote:
Did BOLS have a picture of a grey knight primaris?

No, because they don't exist.

**Pariah-Miniatures**

I still think they should keep inquisitors and stuff around, just as an added ally and not an entire force.
Not all inquisitors are super high up so in a game of suspended belief they rule out entirely that they just can be fielded..
I’m leaning on that they don’t have or want to make new models for them and their rules writers can’t come up with anything but garbage for their rules.

**H.B.M.C.**

The idea that they won't do Imperial Agents because they don't work well on the tabletop is really bizarre. I mean, they realise that's a problem of their own creation, right?

"We can't sell this car. The third wheel on the right side just makes it hard to drive!"

Then remove the 5th wheel and make it work.

BlaxicanX wrote:
People really don't appreciate how much the chapterhouse lawsuit fethed with GW's head. EVERY design change GW has implemented in the past ten years, every single one, can be traced back to them losing that case.

Exactly! It affected everything.

Even their paint range changed as a result.

**casvalremdeikun**

If the Formation bonuses cost 3-5 CP, I would still use them depending on what they are. I often don't use all my CP anyway. I hope the bonuses are decent though. It'll make me actually get his book.

**Audustum**

From what I read, the Inquisition thing is because they don't think it fits thematically, not mechanically (saw something about a guy with a pistol/rapier not really fitting).

**MajorWesJanson**

casvalremdeikun wrote:
If the Formation bonuses cost 3-5 CP, I would still use them depending on what they are. I often don't use all my CP anyway. I hope the bonuses are decent though. It'll make me actually get his book.

I could see them as specific detachments that are -1 to 4 CP depending on the other bonuses, with the bonuses only affecting the units in the detachment.

**casvalremdeikun**

MajorWesJanson wrote:
casvalremdeikun wrote:
If the Formation bonuses cost 3-5 CP, I would still use them depending on what they are. I often don't use all my CP anyway. I hope the bonuses are decent though. It'll make me actually get his book.

I could see them as specific detachments that are -1 to 4 CP depending on the other bonuses, with the bonuses only affecting the units in the detachment.

Fair enough. In which case, I will still be able to run my Battalion and have a neat bonus affect the whole detachment rather than run a Spearhead in addition to the Battalion

Edit: So one of the SM Stratagems is Indomitus Veterans, which makes all Intercessors (but not the rest

**Breotan**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
Even their paint range changed as a result.

Yea, I'm still not sure what the point of that was.

**porkuslime**

My take on the Slanesshi Heraldess..

They took away bewbs because of the chillldrennnn.. what will they think!

But, evidently a sinew harp being plucked out of ye olde human backside is .. OK?

Man.. I like the model and think it evokes the daemon stuff from creepy, but .. I feel mixed messages here.

**Bulldogging**

Audustum wrote:
From what I read, the Inquisition thing is because they don't think it fits thematically, not mechanically (saw something about a guy with a pistol/rapier not really fitting).

Yeah it would clash with the guy that has a cigar/cutlass and monocle/codpiece.

**Tastyfish**

Breotan wrote:
H.B.M.C. wrote:
Even their paint range changed as a result.

Yea, I'm still not sure what the point of that was.

That was due to a change in suppliers I thought, so the paints wouldn't have been exactly the same anyway (and were being reinvented into different types at the same time).

**Carnikang**

porkuslime wrote:
My take on the Slanesshi Heraldess..

They took away bewbs because of the chillldrennnn.. what will they think!

But, evidently a sinew harp being plucked out of ye olde human backside is .. OK?

Man.. I like the model and think it evokes the daemon stuff from creepy, but .. I feel mixed messages here.

Violence and Gore are apparently much more acceptable in normal society than nakedness. Course, Fiends ignored that and kept the caterpillar boobs.

It is a really nice model though. Makes me hope the Keeper of Secrets we might see in the future is just as gruesome.

**H.B.M.C.**

Breotan wrote:
Yea, I'm still not sure what the point of that was.

The almighty ™.

**bullyboy**

So if Imperial Agents are not necessary, we can safely remove Priests, Officer of the Fleet and Master of Ordnance?
Really dumb, I love having Inquisitors in the game, such as Greyfax.

**Pariah-Miniatures**

bullyboy wrote:
So if Imperial Agents are not necessary, we can safely remove Priests, Officer of the Fleet and Master of Ordnance?
Really dumb, I love having Inquisitors in the game, such as Greyfax.

Exactly, they should do away with a lot by that logic.. considering they created the issue of garbage rules and no model support themselves lol

**casvalremdeikun**

bullyboy wrote:
So if Imperial Agents are not necessary, we can safely remove Priests, Officer of the Fleet and Master of Ordnance?
Really dumb, I love having Inquisitors in the game, such as Greyfax.

You can still use them, just as an Auxillary Detachment. They won't have an overall army bonus though.

**Arachnofiend**

bullyboy wrote:
So if Imperial Agents are not necessary, we can safely remove Priests, Officer of the Fleet and Master of Ordnance?
Really dumb, I love having Inquisitors in the game, such as Greyfax.

I'm not even sure if they meant what they said... a Kill Team Inquisition release would still provide 40k rules to the Inquisition. The real reason why an "Imperial Agents" miscellaneous codex wouldn't work is because it wouldn't fit the format set for the other codexes. A codex isn't just a book that has your units in it anymore, committing to a codex for an army means giving them proper full-faction treatment. A mini-dex intended to slot an Inquisition detachment into a larger Imperium force makes much more sense for how the faction operates within a 2000 point army.

Of course there could still be massive issues with what they're doing; if they do the same thing with Rogue Trader again and make KT: Inquisition about a specific Inquisitor's specific underlings and there are no options to customize your wargear or anything then that'd be wholly unsatisfying for existing Inquisition players, especially since it would mean you could only use that Inquisition detachment once in an army.

**Galas**

People should relax about those formation bonuses. etc... from the campaing book.

Yeah they will be able to be used in matched play... just like the advanced rules of City Fighting, and Planetary Strike, etc... and who the feth uses those in regular matched play games?

I seriously doubt this campaing book will be used regularly for matched play.

**casvalremdeikun**

Galas wrote:
People should relax about those formation bonuses. etc... from the campaing book.

Yeah they will be able to be used in matched play... just like the advanced rules of City Fighting, and Planetary Strike, etc... and who the feth uses those in regular matched play games?

I seriously doubt this campaing book will be used regularly for matched play.

Even if they are, it isn't like they don't come with a cost. If you have to give up a Battalion's level of CP to get a bonus to SPECIFIC units, I fail to see how that is going to be overpowered.

The Intercessor one that makes them Veterans, that will be what, +1 Attack? Hard to say that is overpowered.

**THE_LIST_MASTER**

Apparently the formations come in their own book, this is from page 9 of this thread:

Kdash wrote:
Just been talking to one of the guys that did the new "formations" book.

The book contains detachment "buffs" that you spend CP (i think only 1 but my interpretation of how he said things). You spend the cp on the different stratagems before the game to "buff" 1 detachment. All strats have different names so yoi could use it on more than 1 detachment. Each strat gives access to detachment bonuses like new strats. 1 example is the Stompa detachment that allows you to make 1 stompa a charatcher and give it a new wl trait and relics amongst "other things".

It doesn't sound like all the factions will have "formations" in this book. BUT this is numbered as "Book 1" on the spine, so we can expecy more soon.

At least 6 factions in it. Ad mech, Orks, Eldar, Marines, CSMs and i think GSC. Definite on the first 3 BUT the second 3 are off memory and i cant 100% remember

Hinted at December release.

Setup for "all forms of play".

Looking forward to see what they've done with the book, but also SUPER cautious about OP power creep that is almost 99% given. He did however say that they 100% learnt that free formations in 7th was a bad idea and they've learnt additional things.

Book was written over 12 months ago.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
p.s. i didnt manage to get into ylthe Vigilus seminar due to the queue. Running 11 til 12. I opted to spent an extra 90 mims in bed rather than spend 90 mims standing in the cold.

And from his description they sound insane, 1 CP to give a Stompa a relic and warlord trait is crazy. Hopefully he is wrong and it is more CP, but even so I have a hard time seeing how they can balance stuff like that when they struggle to balance the base game stratagems.

**Hulksmash**

Meh, if you're bringing a stompa you've already lost and no relics or warlord traits are going to change that.

**casvalremdeikun**

What's insane is the idea someone would use a Stompa in the first place...

**Arachnofiend**

casvalremdeikun wrote:
What's insane is the idea someone would use a Stompa in the first place...

Not as insane as assuming all of the formations will be bad.

**casvalremdeikun**

Arachnofiend wrote:
casvalremdeikun wrote:
What's insane is the idea someone would use a Stompa in the first place...

Not as insane as assuming all of the formations will be bad.

I never said that. But the Stompa one also has its own Warlord trait table attached to it, so it still might not be bad.

There is a formation for CSM that give +1 to wound to a unit of your choice. Imagine that on something like Havocs or Obliterators.

The Intercessor one says it makes them Veterans. Does that just mean +1 Attack, or does it mean more than that. Time will tell. If they get something weird like +1 WS/ +1 BS, I would use that Stratagem every game.

But I don't think all of them will be pants, but I hope the really good ones come with a really high CP cost

**Hive City Dweller**

Kind of late to the party but I was really hoping to see some new Primaris terminator equivalent with shields and hammers or something of the sort instead of an Ultramarine character. Judging by the honor guard, I can't wait to see the eventual Primaris replacement for Sternguard.

In terms of how these things have gone in the past, are we expecting any more studio previews on Sunday?

**Slayer-Fan123**

Red Corsair wrote:
Mr.Church13 wrote:
Unfortunately they seem to be slipping back to that 7E mentality with this formation idiocy.

Honestly I hope groups and tourneys both insta ban them on launch.

Actually it really depends. While I agree this is slippery ground, it is also potentially a way for them to give fluffy builds that are less commonly seen a boost. Take for example an all custode strike team, hot trash ATM from a competitive standpoint and largely do to lacking the CP needed (screening is another issue but chaf is another issue) but if they make a custode battalion formation and lets say it only required 1 HQ and troop but also required say 1 elite or FA (just spitballing) but still granted them a normal battalions CP then maybe folks would take it and stop using the loyal 32.

What killed formations before was giving out free transports and gear, free points. If they keep them restrained and use the focus for fluffy builds I could see it being a good thing. Like a nemesis SF with set requirements that lets them get CP and come in from reserve on turn 1 again. It's definitely something they need to be careful with though and I'd rather they focus on getting the detachments we already have sorted out before adding more of them to the game, but I'll at least keep an open mind for now.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

An Actual Englishman wrote:
I couldn't agree more with GW with their stance on Imperial Agents. The codex should never have existed in the first place and should, at best, be wrapped up in another codex. They have no place on the battlefield. They'll no doubt give them a mini codex like the Gellarpox Infected which should suffice.

They should roll them back into grey knights, it would fix a lot of the problems that book gained since they removed them.

Exactly. It was only specific formations that you could complain about.

Just because Aspect Shrine was stupidly executed doesn't mean my Terminator Annihilation Force formation wasn't unbalanced in some manner. In fact everyone enjoys Chaos Terminators getting use.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Daedalus81 wrote:
fe40k wrote:
cole1114 wrote:
Wait, do people really not like that grey knights/deathwatch have their own armies? I can almost get that for GK because they've got a history of being poorly balanced, but the deathwatch models are fantastic and add a lot to the game IMO.

A different color of marine = whole different book
A different color of Xenos = different faction trait, in the same book

That’s the problem - one faction gets 10+ books because they paint their armor a different color; while some factions barely get a single book for all of their differently colored klans.

Imagine if each Klan/Dynasty/HiveFleet/Craftworld got their own book; man, wouldn’t that be something?

It is if you’re a space marine.

Different colors of xenos use the exact same units. World Eaters, Blood Angels, Thousand Sons, etc all have several different units focusing on various other aspects with limitations on selections to boot.

Loyalist Scum really don't have that many unique units that the Angels deserve a whole codex.

Hell a post in the Proposed Rules subforum inspired ways for me to consolidate Wolves. Really, all the chapters just need 2-4 unique units and 3 unique relics and you can call it a day.

**insaniak**

Tastyfish wrote:
Breotan wrote:
H.B.M.C. wrote:
Even their paint range changed as a result.

Yea, I'm still not sure what the point of that was.

That was due to a change in suppliers I thought, so the paints wouldn't have been exactly the same anyway (and were being reinvented into different types at the same time).

The rumor at the time was that the previous supplier turned out to own the existing paint names.

Quite why GW chose to replace them with the current absurdity rather than something more representative of actual colors is anyone's guess. If they just wanted trademarkable names, they could have still included actual colors in them.

**ArmchairArbiter**

Carnikang wrote:
porkuslime wrote:
My take on the Slanesshi Heraldess..

They took away bewbs because of the chillldrennnn.. what will they think!

But, evidently a sinew harp being plucked out of ye olde human backside is .. OK?

Man.. I like the model and think it evokes the daemon stuff from creepy, but .. I feel mixed messages here.

Violence and Gore are apparently much more acceptable in normal society than nakedness. Course, Fiends ignored that and kept the caterpillar boobs.

It is a really nice model though. Makes me hope the Keeper of Secrets we might see in the future is just as gruesome.

As a Slaanesh player it always irritates me that people focus so hard on the boob thing. I don’t mean to be rude but it always comes off as a weird neckbeard fascination. They generally prefer the 3rd edition Diaz models too. Which in my opinion are lamest Slaanesh models. They’re just boring naked elves with boobs. Boring and not representative at all. Slaanesh is in excess in all things. Not just sex and boobs. It is every sensation to its max. The fiends and daemonettes have the boob thing. And a more accurate version of it too. As Slaanesh itsself is supposed to be half male/female and the daemonettes shown that. The harp is pretty much everything I wanted, as a Slaanesh player, from a new herald. The horn size is excessive, the creation of the harp is as well. She’s straddling him in a provocative way. It’s just great. Absolutely nailed it in my opinion.

**AegisGrimm**

Why is it a big deal that Calgar's power fists are huge? They have to be big enough that Guilliman was able to wear them, and even in the days of "smaller" primarchs they'd have to be larger than what would be scaled for a normal Space Marine.

**ImAGeek**

porkuslime wrote:
My take on the Slanesshi Heraldess..

They took away bewbs because of the chillldrennnn.. what will they think!

But, evidently a sinew harp being plucked out of ye olde human backside is .. OK?

Man.. I like the model and think it evokes the daemon stuff from creepy, but .. I feel mixed messages here.

Except they haven’t taken away the boobs. Guessing you haven’t seen the new Fiend models?