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I see lots of complaints aimed at SM fangirls/boys all over the place. It is very stigmatised.

On the other hand, as I noticed over in the 'Can-SM-take-a-planet' thread, IG fanboys and so on are just as extreme.

Why has this escaped stigma?

Try to follow rule #1 in this, please. I want to analyse the situation and debate the cause and so on, not point fingers and throw insults.

Like it or not, Space Marines ARE 40k - you can't separate them, they're iconic and a big part of why 40k is so popular. Imagine not having them as part of the lore? Impossible.

I'd just chalk it up to "IG Fanboys" having some strange delusion that Warhammer 40k is different than Marvel and doesn't have superhumans with absurdly powerful abilities. Just that W40K isn't as absurd or garish as Marvel.

At least Eldar skin-tight body armor/suits look good. If you're going to wear spandex, at least put some armor on.

It is? I guess I was understanding the other thread differently.

Personally I don't like to stigmatize anything. You like what you like and that's a okay.

Generally though, I suppose it's more about some people not liking space marines. Then that dislike is reciprocated onto those who like space marines. If you look though, there is a stigma for pretty much everything. Stigmas for being fluff bunnys or Waac players is another big one for example.

It comes down to the people that play the game. Some don't like the idea of someone else liking an aspect of the game they don't. And so they stigmatize.

However, you really shouldn't make a thread about a stigma that you feel is directed unfairly and include your own stigma (IG fanboys). It detracts from the overall message you're trying to spread.

The stigma comes from the belief that space marines get the most attention from GW (which they do). This then leads to people seeing SM players as spoiled, entitled children who have no right to make judgements or complain. This is further illustrated by some SM players who actually have this attitude. Most of the SM fans I know aren't like this but their are a few who are.

 Veteran of The Long War wrote:
The stigma comes from the belief that space marines get the most attention from GW (which they do). This then leads to people seeing SM players as spoiled, entitled children who have no right to make judgements or complain. This is further illustrated by some SM players who actually have this attitude. Most of the SM fans I know aren't like this but their are a few who are.

I wish that love extended to Chaos Space Marines.

;_;

Forever alone.

I think it's because people are sick of Games Workshop and it's subdivision Black Library always spouting how Space Marines are the best and it's fans echoing this sentiment. I certainly don't care for how they are depicted as I think it makes 40k, for lack of a better word, vapid.

And I am a Space Marine fan as well. My growing collection of Black Templars will attest to that.

 Retrogamer0001 wrote:
Like it or not, Space Marines ARE 40k - you can't separate them, they're iconic and a big part of why 40k is so popular. Imagine not having them as part of the lore? Impossible.

Because some think like that. There's also the whole ''my faction dudes are the bestests at everything everytime and nothing you have can do anything to them'' train of though that's really annoying. Yes a SM is better than a guardsman, maybe even a whole squad, but for hell sake, there's a limit.

There's very little books that I've read where SM are even featured, them being removed wouldn't be a great loss to me.

Tbh, that's the internet for you..
It's not just csm & IG vs SM
It's not just Dakka

It's the fact that people act differently on the interwebs than real life..
And far more aggressively, citation- google a psyche thread some time..
Dakka SM threads are no different people who would normally be polite in group face to face situations (not everyone alas) are far more aggressive and demeaning for the sake of domineering others with their argument over forums...

Welcome to humanity..

Personally I also get the feeling that SM fans view the SM as god-like unkillable or nearly so entities and that you might as well kill yourself rather than fight them,

I just see the IG as not incompetent, by comparision. Whereas SM are elite and very efficient shock troops, but still have limitations.

 Bobthehero wrote:

 Retrogamer0001 wrote:
Like it or not, Space Marines ARE 40k - you can't separate them, they're iconic and a big part of why 40k is so popular. Imagine not having them as part of the lore? Impossible.

Because some think like that. There's also the whole ''my faction dudes are the bestests at everything everytime and nothing you have can do anything to them'' train of though that's really annoying. Yes a SM is better than a guardsman, maybe even a whole squad, but for hell sake, there's a limit.

There's very little books that I've read where SM are even featured, them being removed wouldn't be a great loss to me.

Just remember that Dak'ir the Salamander flew through space and cut a capital ship in half with his sword.

Remember it.

I... what? I can buy them tanking Autocannon rounds. I can even accept them be able to take a battlecannon round and walk away with it even though it kills me as a treadhead. But this just reached a new level of silly. This isn't just a superhero military setting. It's just... dumb.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
I... what? I can buy them tanking Autocannon rounds. I can even accept them be able to take a battlecannon round and walk away with it even though it kills me as a treadhead. But this just reached a new level of silly. This isn't just a superhero military setting. It's just... dumb.

Well, I did forget the context. Dak'ir is also almost certainly an Alpha level Psyker. But he did go DBZ at the end of the Tome of Fire trilogy, and goddamn was it glorious.

Oh. Well, that makes sense. Alpha level psykers are insanely powerful.

AAaaaand this is why GW fluff-writers should NOT watch anime

SM's and IG are almost just as powerful as eachother but in different ways but one thing is certain. If either one of them is removed from the Imperium mankind will fall.

As for fanboy/girls, I never really noticed until now. I've been a warhammer 40k player, painter and collector since I was 12. I never noticed very many biased players. Good days I have going to my gaming store and joking and laughing about all the different races and the awesome powers each one possessed. There are a lot of weird things about all the races but remember this stuff is about 38,000 years in the future and anything is possible...

They're all just jealous of the pauldrons SM have. THEY'RE SO LARGE!

Space Marine fanboyism is stigmatized because that's what GW leans towards. Every since they realized they could milk it, GW has been making Space Marines better and betterer and bettererer.

IG fanboys are a pain, but at least we don't have to deal with IG fanboys writing the codices.

It's penis envy, basically. It's the same reason people hate mainstream music and movies that win tons of oscars.

It's a common thing for people to automatically be pushed away from things that are too popular.

Imperial Guard have that underdog swag that makes the ladies go "aaaahhhh", despite the fact that their plot-armor is pretty much thicker on average than even the Astartes.

Nothing wrong with SM

Oh you mean Space Marines
Their are GW's main boys, the big sellers, they get everything first, those who play "lesser" armies are annoyed by this, i hear the weeping of Sister of Battle fans, where is our codex, where are our miniatures!

 BlaxicanX wrote:
It's penis envy, basically. It's the same reason people hate mainstream music and movies that win tons of oscars.

It's a common thing for people to automatically be pushed away from things that are too popular.

Imperial Guard have that underdog swag that makes the ladies go "aaaahhhh", despite the fact that their plot-armor is pretty much thicker on average than even the Astartes.

Oh please that an absurd statement to make about everyone who happens to dislike the faction you like. Its has nothing to do with penis envy and disliking SM fanboys does not mean your a hipster. TheCustomLime said it best with GW and SM fanboys constantly going on about how much better marines are then every other factions combined. It shows a lack of respect for the customers who happen to like something other then SM when their chosen faction is nothing more then bolter fodder for the poster boys. This probably wouldn't be a issue if GW, Black Library and Forge World simply had a more balanced approach and made sure to release plenty of fluff for every faction that shows them in a good light.

 Archon_Zarbyrn wrote:

Oh please that an absurd statement to make about everyone who happens to dislike the faction you like.

The Imperial Guard are my favorite faction.

Its has nothing to do with penis envy and disliking SM fanboys does not mean your a hipster. TheCustomLime said it best with GW and SM fanboys constantly going on about how much better marines are then every other factions combined.

GW does not do this, though. Which is my point.

Space Marines are depicted as being the best... within their own codex. In everyone else's codex they die like fodder. Daemons and CSM has them being corrupted by Chaos, scattered to the winds by the Gods, being overwhelmed, outgunned, tricked. The Necron codex consistently has Imhotek and others embarrassing space marines. Tyranids eat entire chapters and routinely crush them, especially in Space. I was just reading some fluff in my Guard codex this morning and chuckling at an entry regarding Guardsmen overwhelming and slaughtering Night Lords. The Tau have run off Space Marines on numerous occasions, and are apparently such a massive threat to the entire Imperium despite their relatively small population that one of the largest documented campaigns in 40K fluff history has, according to 6E IG codex, been unleashed to beat Shadowsun back, a crusade force that dwarfs the one fighting on Armageddon and is second only to the forces defending Cadia and the Great Crusade itself. In other news, Necrons can casually blow up every star in the Galaxy.

Outside of the codices, the most popular Black Library series for quite some time was... the Gaunt's Ghost novels, a series focused exclusively on a tiny Guardsmen regiment who routinely slaughters several magnitudes its own number in troops and wears a K/D Ratio that would make the Ultramarines feel inadequate. I just finished up Titanicus the other day, and one of the final chapters detailed three Skitarri killing over twelve times their number in enemy Skitarri before finally succumbing to their wounds and dying a heroes death.

Meanwhile, on the table-top itself Space Marines are a solidly mid-tier army who in general serve as a punching bag for Xenos like Tau and Eldar.

So allow me to whip out my tiny violin for non-Astartes factions and the "hype" they get from Games Workshop. Space Marines sell the best, they get the most attention from Forgeworld, they get the most supplements and they have way too many codices in proportion to how unique of a faction they are. But in-universe their depiction has been a lot more balanced than peoples' irrational envy and double-standards will allow them to see.

Not until you read Black Library bolter-porn that is. Then you'll see why people think that Games Workshop make Space Marines out to be the best there ever was. I don't know if such novels are in the majority but they sure speak the loudest on this forum.

Because it's fanboyism. Space marine fanboys aren't content with their favorite army being Starship Troopers power armor (elite of the elite drop pod infantry with jet packs and tactical nukes) with chainsaw swords and a lot more religious icons, they need to make them into literal superheroes that can conquer whole planets with a squad or two.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
Not until you read Black Library bolter-porn that is.

I addressed Black Library in my post.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
It's penis envy, basically. It's the same reason people hate mainstream music and movies that win tons of oscars.

It's a common thing for people to automatically be pushed away from things that are too popular.

Imperial Guard have that underdog swag that makes the ladies go "aaaahhhh", despite the fact that their plot-armor is pretty much thicker on average than even the Astartes.

That's one thing I do like about most marine books. There's no such thing as the unnamed character getting whacked, because normally everybody has a name.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Peregrine wrote:
Because it's fanboyism. Space marine fanboys aren't content with their favorite army being Starship Troopers power armor (elite of the elite drop pod infantry with jet packs and tactical nukes) with chainsaw swords and a lot more religious icons, they need to make them into literal superheroes that can conquer whole planets with a squad or two.

They're not "making them out", that's what they officially do. Although they don't occupy planets, that's a job for the guard.

It's mostly the Ultramarines then mostly done, in a joking way somewhat, due to the endless attention they receive over the top of the other factions and more recently the Ward hype that he's been putting into anything with them. My only issue with marines as a whole is a few of the codices could be cut out to allow smoother updates, or given to more divergent chapters such as the Iron Hands or Raven Guard maybe. The thing is they'd have one giant book that'd take a long time to develop then, but that could be improved by having a core then doing supplements. Which of course would end up with the Ultras being the core due to their size over the other founding chapters to begin with.

The thing as well for me is the attention the Ultras get compared to other founding chapters such as the Iron Hands who seem to regularly get even less attention put to them than Ultra sucessors at times.

To be frank, I find the notion of a squad or two of SM to largely be utter nonsense to conquer whole planets. Although I'm fine with giving exceptions to the heroes of SM and, in particular, the psykers Then again, I largely scale my level a bit above tabletop and a decent bit below SM bolter porn stories which I tend to not take quite seriously because well yeah you all can probably guess why.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:
Because it's fanboyism. Space marine fanboys aren't content with their favorite army being Starship Troopers power armor (elite of the elite drop pod infantry with jet packs and tactical nukes) with chainsaw swords and a lot more religious icons, they need to make them into literal superheroes that can conquer whole planets with a squad or two.

They're not "making them out", that's what they officially do. Although they don't occupy planets, that's a job for the guard.

GW's official position is that the fluff is all myths and propaganda and wild exaggeration for the sake of telling an awesome story. Fanboys just insist that it all has to be literal truth.

Indeed.

Why do you think this phenomenon is exclusive to Space Marine fans, or is more typical in Space Marine fans?