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So people were talking about Tank Shock with Dark Eldar. So naturally people were reading the tank shock rules, which was when I realized is it possible to tank shock from deep strike?

So Dark Eldar have a piece of wargear named Chain Snares that allow a vehicle to Tank Shock even if it is not a Tank.

The rules for tank shock though are that you have to declare a tank shock and you can in fact tank shock from reserve. There's nothing that says you can't name ZERO as your movement then just place the Dark Eldar Venom or whatever on top of a unit. As long as it isn't a vehicle.

So someone correct me.

Cause a vehicle Deep Striking counts as moving at Combat Speed.

You can state that you are deep striking when you move on from reserve.

Chain Snares allow you to tank shock.

So someone point out the flaws in this.

The only thing i can see is the requirement to actually move.

as in a starting location > Declare intended distance > move in straight line forward

Its a cool idea though

Does declaring you are tank shocking prevent the mishap?

Have a look at the Tank Shock section. Note the first sentence.

This is impossible if the vehicle is not yet on the table.

 insaniak wrote:
Have a look at the Tank Shock section. Note the first sentence.

This is impossible if the vehicle is not yet on the table.

Except the tank shocks from reserves thing.

You can come in from a table edge as you do move and can declare your direction and stuff which follows the tank shock instructions

 Desubot wrote:

 insaniak wrote:
Have a look at the Tank Shock section. Note the first sentence.

This is impossible if the vehicle is not yet on the table.

Except the tank shocks from reserves thing.

You can come in from a table edge as you do move and can declare your direction and stuff which follows the tank shock instructions

The tank is not moving on, it is Deep Striking.

 Desubot wrote:
Except the tank shocks from reserves thing.

Which says that you can tank shock from reserves, but doesn't actually provide a mechanism for doing so.

Yay for GW once again.

 insaniak wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
Except the tank shocks from reserves thing.

Which says that you can tank shock from reserves, but doesn't actually provide a mechanism for doing so.

Yay for GW once again.

Pretty much. but to be fair there are rules for moving tanks onto the table from a table side (please the vehicle on the table edge then move like normal (DT and all)

there are no actual "movement" rules for things that drop out of the sky.

 Desubot wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
Except the tank shocks from reserves thing.

Which says that you can tank shock from reserves, but doesn't actually provide a mechanism for doing so.

Yay for GW once again.

Pretty much. but to be fair there are rules for moving tanks onto the table from a table side (please the vehicle on the table edge then move like normal (DT and all)

there are no actual "movement" rules for things that drop out of the sky.

This

Eh...


Deep Strike rules

Vehicles, except for Walkers, count as having moved at Combat Speed (even Immobilised vehicles)

Tank Shock

Tank Shock from Reserve
A Tank that moves onto the battlefield from Reserve may attempt a Tank Shock. This must be declared before the Tank moves onto the board.

To perform a Tank Shock, first, turn the vehicle on the spot to face the direction you intend to move it and, after pre-measuring, declare how many inches the vehicle is going to move, up to its maximum speed. The vehicle must move at least Combat Speed. Note that, because pivoting on the spot does not count as moving, this is not enough for a Tank Shock.
Once the Tank has been ‘aimed’ and the intended distance declared, move the Tank straight forwards until it comes into contact with an enemy unit or it reaches the distance declared – no other changes of direction are allowed in a Tank Shock.




You can absolutely declare 0 then not move it 0 and it has reached the distance it has traveled and landed on a enemy unit as you place it from Deep Strike, hell if you declare it Tank Shocking and it scatters onto a unit that unit get's tank shocked.

For completeness sake,

"Moving on from reserve
When a reserves unit arrives, it must move onto the table from the controlling player's table edge (pg130), measure the model's move from the edge of the table, as if they had been positioned just off the board in the previous turn.......
.... if for some reason a model's maximum move is insufficient to fit the entire model onto the board, or it becomes immobilized whilst moving onto the board, place the model as far onto the table as you can..............."


So how do you declare moving 0 then scatter 12 inchs to the left?

you have basically broken the rules as you cannot move further than the declared movement.

Yeah but it's arriving from Reserve by deep strike so those rules would come into play...

It's a wonky thing I admit but I think RAW this does actually work and it may have been intended when you think about the army.

Yup, without the requirement to turn the vehicle on the spot to 'aim it', your idea would be fine.

If we assume that there is supposed to be a rule allowing you to ignore this requirement when tank shocking from reserves, then it's still fine.

If we assume instead that the missing rule would tell us to declare the vehicle's facing as if it was sitting just off the table and move it in that direction, then the Deep Strike plan runs into a problem unless you're going to ram it front-first into the table.

But as the RAW currently stands, no, it doesn't work. But neither does tank shocking from reserves generally, which should work.

You decide it's facing when you place the model. Or do you roll a random arrow? It's just that your pivot itself does not cause the tank shock..

So it couldn't scatter while tank shocking then you turn the vehicle and tank shock a unit but if it lands directly on top of them...

Under stand that last one a little wonky to explain.

Hollismason wrote:
You decide it's facing when you place the model.

You have to face it before you move the model at all.

Deep Striking is movement.

 insaniak wrote:

Hollismason wrote:
You decide it's facing when you place the model.

You have to face it before you move the model at all.

Deep Striking is movement.

Actually you just have to declare the direction, it's not on the board. I could say it's tank shocking and place it facing south it doesn't matter because tank shock only cares if it gets to that distance. That's what the second part of the sentence states.

Hollismason wrote:
Actually you just have to declare the direction,...

Hollismason wrote:
..., first,[u] turn the vehicle on the spot to face the direction you intend to move it ...

Yes and when does that happen? Before it comes in from reserve? Meaning you have to pivot a model offboard? Or when it's placed on the board from deep strike?

Here is the order I see it then you declare your order.

I select a Venom from reserve.

I roll for it's reserve roll, it succeeds.

I declare that it is tank shocking when it arrives from reserve.

I place it according to the deep strike rules.

It scatters onto a unit.

or

I place it over a unit , it hits.

Now what?

It's still tank shocking a unit because I declared it was tanking shocking so if it scatters onto a unit then it's a tank shocking vehicle that has moved over a unit.

Does the vehicle have a Combat Speed of less than or equal to 0?

Hollismason wrote:
You can absolutely declare 0 then not move it 0 and it has reached the distance it has traveled and landed on a enemy unit as you place it from Deep Strike, hell if you declare it Tank Shocking and it scatters onto a unit that unit get's tank shocked.

So you can move on to the board by declaring that you are not moving but yet count as moving?

You count as moving ..

tank shocking from reserves.

you cannot dismebark units on a vehicle if it tank shocks, so first off this is not a great idea.

You may be allowed to do this from reserves, but RAW this is not possible to do from deep striking as you cannot move when you deep strike and there is no permission to place yourself in base contact with a non friendly model as deepstrike initial placement is not movement, it is deploying.

Pivoting on the spot does not count as moving, so the vehicle cannot move 0" and tank shock something.

Tank shock requires that you pivot and move a distance you declare. Then you move the model and if an enemy non vehicle unit is reached by this movement you tank shock them, so you cannot declare 0".

You can tank shock from reserves as you have a spot you are entering from, you can declare the distance and measure a straight line for the path. There is no movement distance or path when arriving from deepstrike and there is no permission to deploy within 1" of an enemy model, as that is a mishap.

tank shock gives permission to move through models, not deploy within 1".

You would just mishap before you are placed on the table.

RAW this doesn't work as a tank shock, its just a way to mishap.

tank shocking from reserves only works when you are actually moving some measurable distance on the board from off the board where you are not starting in base contact with an enemy model.

Psienesis wrote:Does the vehicle have a Combat Speed of less than or equal to 0?

Doesn't matter. However far it moves, it counts as moving at Combat Speed because it Deep Struck.

Hollismason wrote:Here is the order I see it then you declare your order.

I select a Venom from reserve.

I roll for it's reserve roll, it succeeds.

I declare that it is tank shocking when it arrives from reserve.

At which point you have to pivot the vehicle on the spot in the direction it is going to travel.

You can not do this, as the vehicle is not actually present.

Game breaks. Go have a beer.

You have to resolve the deep strike first. Just as you would resolve moving a unit onto the board.

By your logic then you cannot in fact tank shock from reserve, which you in fact can.

There is general permission to perform tank shock during your movement distance onto the board from reserves.

some methods of entering reserves allow you to do this, ie moving on normally from table edge.

some methods do not actually have you move a distance, ie deep strike.

so although generally there is permission to tank shock from reserves, the way some methods of arriving from reserves works does not allow them to move after being deployed, so they may count as moving, but they are not moving in a direction on the table.

so you roll for reserves, you pick a DSing model

you place it in base to base to enemy unit, before you can finish deployment you have now mishapped, roll on mishap chart, then you can try to tank shock but of course you cannot as you have mishapped and also have no permission to turn or move in a certain direction at this point due to the rules for deep strike.

mishap.

You can't mishap because it's tank shocking and also it's a skimmer which brings up this whole other problem.

And yet you cannot Tank shock because you cannot follow all the rules for Tank shocking. You mishap.

 insaniak wrote:

Psienesis wrote:Does the vehicle have a Combat Speed of less than or equal to 0?

Doesn't matter. However far it moves, it counts as moving at Combat Speed because it Deep Struck.

Does matter if this is the actual rule:

To perform a Tank Shock, first, turn the vehicle on the spot to face the direction you intend to move it and, after pre-measuring, declare how many inches the vehicle is going to move, up to its maximum speed. The vehicle must move at least Combat Speed. Note that, because pivoting on the spot does not count as moving, this is not enough for a Tank Shock.

Don't have the book in front of me to verify, so taking it on faith that that is the verbatim rule. It states the vehicle must move at least its Combat Speed. Unless the vehicle has a Combat Speed of 0 or less, you cannot declare a move of 0.

Please explain to me how a tank pivots while off the board in order to move onto the board and tank shock.

Tank Shock is just something you can declare before moving.

Here's the rules and the underlined portion.

TANK SHOCK
To perform a Tank Shock, first, turn the vehicle on the spot to face the direction you intend to move it and, after pre-measuring, declare how many inches the vehicle is going to move, up to its maximum speed. The vehicle must move at least Combat Speed. Note that, because pivoting on the spot does not count as moving, this is not enough for a Tank Shock.
Once the Tank has been ‘aimed’ and the intended distance declared, move the Tank straight forwards until it comes into contact with an enemy unit or it reaches the distance declared – no other changes of direction are allowed in a Tank Shock.
A Tank Shock is an exception to the rule that enemy models cannot be moved through. Remember, though, that friendly models still cannot be moved through, so the Tank’s movement will be stopped if any friendly models are in the way. Also, a Tank Shock cannot be attempted against enemies that are locked in combat, as the risk of harming allies is too high.
If an enemy unit other than another vehicle is reached, that enemy unit must take a Morale check and immediately Fall Back if it fails. If the test is passed, the unit simply lets the Tank move through, as if it was not there. Regardless of the result of the test, the Tank keeps moving straight on, possibly Tank Shocking more enemy units until it reaches its final position. If the Tank would move into contact with a friendly model, enemy vehicle, impassable terrain or a board edge, it immediately stops moving 1" away.
If some enemy models in the enemy unit would end up underneath the vehicle when it reaches its final position (it makes no difference whether the unit is Falling Back or not), these models must be moved out of the way by the shortest distance, leaving at least 1" between them and the vehicle whilst maintaining unit coherency and staying on the board. Any models that cannot manage this are crushed and removed from play as casualties with no saves allowed. Crunch!

Tank Shock

Tank Shock from Reserve
A Tank that moves onto the battlefield from Reserve may attempt a Tank Shock. This must be declared before the Tank moves onto the board.


You have to declare that it is tank shocking before it moves onto the board. Then you follow the rules for deep strike.

This is the problem the underlined portion, they move you don't. They have to move as your tank shocking them.

So the order is :


Declare a Vehicle is tanking shocking.

Move it onto the board.

?????

It's not a mishap at all though because it's a Tank Shocking Vehicle.


Let me put it another way.

Here's the scenario: You have a Landraider off board, Your opponent has a line of models at your board edge. Can you tank shock through them? Why or Why not?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Psienesis wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

Psienesis wrote:Does the vehicle have a Combat Speed of less than or equal to 0?

Doesn't matter. However far it moves, it counts as moving at Combat Speed because it Deep Struck.

Does matter if this is the actual rule:

To perform a Tank Shock, first, turn the vehicle on the spot to face the direction you intend to move it and, after pre-measuring, declare how many inches the vehicle is going to move, up to its maximum speed. The vehicle must move at least Combat Speed. Note that, because pivoting on the spot does not count as moving, this is not enough for a Tank Shock.

Don't have the book in front of me to verify, so taking it on faith that that is the verbatim rule. It states the vehicle must move at least its Combat Speed. Unless the vehicle has a Combat Speed of 0 or less, you cannot declare a move of 0.

Deep Striking vehicles move at Combat Speed. They are not considered stationary. 0 is actually a answer because you can say it moves at combat speed. There's nothing that I can find that states " Combat Speed is 0.1 Inches to 6 inches".

Here's another scenario, you decide you tank shock. You don't place it on a unit but it is still tank shocking, and it scatters onto a unit does that unit get tank shocked?

I say yes.