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Santorum: Religious persecution in U.S. could escalate as high as it did under Nazi Germany - by Sara Fischer, CNN (http://www.cnn.com/2014/11/02/politics/rick-santorum-religious-persecution/index.html?hpt=po_c2)

Washington (CNN) -- Former Sen. Rick Santorum, R-Pennsylvania, said this week that the growing threat towards American religious freedom by the government could lead to "Christian persecution," similar to how the oppression of Jews and Christians evolved over time under Nazi Germany.

Arguing that the rise of the Nazi regime happened in a stable country where it was not expected, Santorum said that a similar situation could occur in the United States where, according to Santorum, religious liberties are "under direct assault" for the first time in history.

"Germany, prior to the Nazis getting there, was a very religious country," Santorum said in an interview with the Christian Post. "It was a Christian country. It was a very sophisticated country."

"The idea that you can have this kind of persecution take place over a period of ten years -- where you go from Christians -- Jews, obviously, but also Christians -- being not just persecuted but put to death -- was unfathomable," he said. "It was unfathomable to them that (in) a country like this, this could happen. Same thing here."

While the former presidential candidate did acknowledge that persecution in America is "fairly mild" compared to what's going on in other parts of the world, he warned that it is still dangerous because "it's something that grows over time."

"It starts in a gradual erosion," Santorum said. "We're not in a dire situation right now, but that doesn't mean you can't get there. I would argue that there's a certainty that we will get there if we don't push back and defend our liberties."

"If we don't nip it here, then things get a lot worse," he continued.

Asked why such attacks on religious liberties exist in America, Santorum said it is mostly a result of government overreach.

"The government wants to tell you how to live your life," Santorum said, citing abortion and same-sex marriage issues. "You either conform to what the government says you have to believe in, or you're going to lose certain privileges."

Santorum discussed the topic as part of an interview about his new film, titled "One Generation Away," which is produced by a movie production company run by Santorum called EchoLight Cinemas. The film, Santorum says, highlights where religious persecution comes from, what it is about and why it is a danger to society.

I must have missed something. Did the US government start demanding that men start marrying eachother, or that pregnant women start aborting?

TBF you might be at war with Russia soon so ....

I do have a sincere question for US Christians. I see this claim of Christian persecution made frequently by talking heads. To me it makes no sense whatsoever. The vast majority of the US population are Christian and the vast majority of elected officials in the US are Christian.

Do you as a Christian feel you are being persecuted, and if so, why?

I feel persecuted by stupid threads. He has a point as you never know what the future holds, but he's a dweeb.

On a more interesting topic. The thought of the rise of dictatorships. I'm surprised more dictatorships and general craziness haven't formed. We are in a period of difficulty across the globe. Typically that creates chaos.

Of course, North Africa and the Middle East did have that, in spades. And of course Mother Russia is on the march again.

 jasper76 wrote:
I do have a sincere question for US Christians. I see this claim of Christian persecution made frequently by talking heads. To me it makes no sense whatsoever. The vast majority of the US population are Christian and the vast majority of elected officials in the US are Christian.

Do you as a Christian feel you are being persecuted, and if so, why?

Mixed.

On the one hand, I find the general idea that Christians are being persecuted to be nonsense produced by fear mongering for votes. Christians will vote more if you paint the other side as hating them, and the Conservative end of politics, and Christians themselves have done a dandy job painting that picture. The ACLU for example is constantly painted as this Christian hating snooty liberal group completely ignoring the multitude of cases the ACLU has taken up in defense of religious rights of Christians.

On the other hand, I know that one of my Churches in the past was denied a permit to build a Church by the zoning board and one of the board members said "you Christians can take you magic and go away.' This strikes me as an isolated incident, but it's rather blatant and no one seemed to draw any issue with the statement at the time.

Right now, Christians aren't being persecuted. I think that they're special place in American society is slowly being rolled back after it became so pronounced in the first half of the 20th century. Legalizing abortion and gay marriage gets painted as 'anti-Christian' to get votes, but legalizing those things doesn't strike me as anti-Christian unless Churches (not for profit business') are forced to shut up about them or support them, but so far churches haven't been forced by the government to do this. It's part of the Religious Right's political campaign to rebrand America as the Christian nation, as though we're supposed to be some kind of democratic theocracy.

But at the same time, I do feel concerned about things like the burning down of historical chapels in Scandinavia and Germany, and the things you see people say about Christians on the internet. Could they become a persecuted group some day? Maybe, but not right now.

Ahh crazy politicians. Gotta love em.

Way to equate progressives with Nazis, Rick.

American religious freedom isn't threatened, dillhole...it religion's stranglehold on telling other's how to live that is. I think you do not understand what freedom means. And since when does the gub mint tell anyone what to believe in?

Ugh...this guy makes me glad Obama is in office.(First time I ever said this).

Not all Pennsylvanians are this dense...I swear.

Way to equate progressives with Nazis, Rick.

Well Nazis were social democrats...
This threads Godwins itself!

Well, 2016 will be here soon enough, and it was about time for Rick to poke his head out and start ramping up.

I have certainly no love for his politics, but he sure knows how to push buttons. And as I've said before, button-pushing is exactly what he's doing...he's calculating, not crazy.

 LordofHats wrote:

But at the same time, I do feel concerned about things like the burning down of historical chapels in Scandinavia and Germany, and the things you see people say about Christians on the internet. Could they become a persecuted group some day? Maybe, but not right now.

I remember hearing about that as being associated with Black Metal fans and musicians who actually took the theistic Satanic stuff seriously. Hopefully that was a flash in the pan. Is it still going on?

For the internet stuff, it's my suspicion that this is a backlash against certain elements of Christian society trying to make non-Christians live by certain unwelcome Christian morales and ideas. It's one thing to have an opinion, it's quite another to try and enforce that opinion on others through legislation.

I think if Christian polticians and activists can become comfortable with the idea that they don't have a right to make others live according to their beliefs, religious v. non-religious discussions may well tone down.

It can't really be said enough...telling people they deserve to suffer eternally for something so trivial as a view of the cosmos is really very insulting and hostile. Hopefully that will tone down to. I mean I have been on boards discussing science, and if the subject of biology comes up, its not uncommon that a Christian might come on and start telling people they deserve to burn in hell for eternity. I know this view is probably not representative of many or perhaps even most Christians, but it is frequently voiced on the internet.

See those Christians just don't do their reading. They need to read more Revelation. Most people who go to hell, aren't there forever (or for Catholics, there's purgatory). During the Second Coming comes, nearly everyone except for the most wicked is supposed to get in*. Its one of the few things actually said fairly plainly in Revelation, which otherwise reads like an acid trip half the time.

And the most wicked don't suffer for eternity either. They get tossed into a lava pit with Satan and die.

 jasper76 wrote:

Arguing that the rise of the Nazi regime happened in a stable country where it was not expected, Santorum said that a similar situation could occur in the United States where, according to Santorum, religious liberties are "under direct assault" for the first time in history.

"Germany, prior to the Nazis getting there, was a very religious country," Santorum said in an interview with the Christian Post. "It was a Christian country. It was a very sophisticated country."

Actually... this just shows that Santorum knows absolutely nothing about history. Germany after WW1 was anything but stable. And in fact, there were dozens, maybe even hundreds of far-right, "fascist" groups in Germany. The famous picture of Hitler, pre-election reviewing his "troops" was actually taken at a huge field/rally event where all these groups came together. Thing is, as we all know, Hitler came to power, in many ways it was because he was able to consume all the dozens of other groups to become one entity. The situation in Germany was such that, if he hadn't risen to power, someone that was a near carbon copy would have.


And, if you really want to be technical about Santorums second bit that I quoted... Hitler viewed his country as being Christian as well, even after he took power..... But, it was about as Christian as the US has ever been.


Ohh, and I'm sorry but Christianity =/= Sophistication. Santorum is just a pissed off dweeb with no work, trying to get back into his own den of vipers.

 LordofHats wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:

Do you as a Christian feel you are being persecuted, and if so, why?

Mixed.

On the one hand, I find the general idea that Christians are being persecuted to be nonsense produced by fear mongering for votes. Christians will vote more if you paint the other side as hating them, and the Conservative end of politics, and Christians themselves have done a dandy job painting that picture. The ACLU for example is constantly painted as this Christian hating snooty liberal group completely ignoring the multitude of cases the ACLU has taken up in defense of religious rights of Christians.

On the other hand, I know that one of my Churches in the past was denied a permit to build a Church by the zoning board and one of the board members said "you Christians can take you magic and go away.' This strikes me as an isolated incident, but it's rather blatant and no one seemed to draw any issue with the statement at the time.

Right now, Christians aren't being persecuted. I think that they're special place in American society is slowly being rolled back after it became so pronounced in the first half of the 20th century. Legalizing abortion and gay marriage gets painted as 'anti-Christian' to get votes, but legalizing those things doesn't strike me as anti-Christian unless Churches (not for profit business') are forced to shut up about them or support them, but so far churches haven't been forced by the government to do this. It's part of the Religious Right's political campaign to rebrand America as the Christian nation, as though we're supposed to be some kind of democratic theocracy.

But at the same time, I do feel concerned about things like the burning down of historical chapels in Scandinavia and Germany, and the things you see people say about Christians on the internet. Could they become a persecuted group some day? Maybe, but not right now.

This is similar to my perspective as well. I think that Christianity has enjoyed special prominence for a long time in the USA and as the country becomes more diverse some of that is being lost, and that is perceived by some (usually wrongly in my mind) as persecution. It makes sense that as the country becomes more diverse, laws will have to accomodate that diversity.

Far-Right Christian pundits have always painted the legalizing of various "un-christian" behaviors and the extending or various rights to individuals perceived as "Un-christian" as being an attack on Christianity. They may be in contrast to Christianity, but they aren't an attack.

I think the place that we are going to see real and conflict is where laws compel religious folks to do things they disagree with in the business setting. Requiring owners of businesses to provide birth control methods that they consider abortive, requiring service providers to serve weddings that they deem to be sinful, etc. These are the grey areas where some religious people are coming into very real conflict with their government. I honestly see both sides of the issue. I have little difficulty ignoring someone who doesn't like the fact that gay folks can get married now. That's the extension of a right. It's harder for me to completely ignore those who find themselves in a situation where the government says "in order to run a business, you have to do _________ against your religion."

That said, I'm not at all worried about the "Nazi" scenario that el-gasbag-erino Santorum is bloviating about. I think that there will of course be some public conflict and lots of poop will spew from the mouths of talking heads on both sides. Nonetheless, I'm confident that a few years and a few laws and court cases later, we will have achieved some sort of balance between the rights of the various parties involved.

In the meantime, I'd much rather my evangelical brothers and sisters concern themselves more with the plight of those who really do deal with actual persecution, rather with the piddling incursions they feel they are experiencing.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 LordofHats wrote:
See those Christians just don't do their reading. They need to read more Revelation. Most people who go to hell, aren't there forever (or for Catholics, there's purgatory). During the Second Coming comes, nearly everyone except for the most wicked is supposed to get in*. Its one of the few things actually said fairly plainly in Revelation, which otherwise reads like an acid trip half the time.

And the most wicked don't suffer for eternity either. They get tossed into a lava pit with Satan and die.

To be fair, there are long studied and well-argued Biblical basis' for both eternal suffering for the damned and for "Annihilationism" which posits that after judgement (and possibly some suffering) the damned souls are completely destroyed.

It's not a new conflict, nor -like most theologic divides- is it one that has been conclusively decided one way or the other.

Rick Santorum really doesn't know his history.

Why is this guy even given media coverage? Is the 'Ebola outbreak' all milked out?

Well... he sounds like a tool...

This is what happens when you elect stupid into office.

Friends don't let friends elect stupid.

There are some martyrs who would probably love to smack some of these idiots for claiming "persecution".

There are people willing to be tortured and killed for their faith and who are willing, and happy, to endure poverty and public ridicule for the opportunity to share their faith.

And here we have people who claim that they are under attack because secular laws based on Christian beliefs are being struck down and and because they are being told that it's illegal to discriminate against others.

Being persecuted for loving others is persecution, being told not to use your religion to force your belief on others isn't.

 SilverMK2 wrote:
Well... he sounds like a tool...

Your hearing is...accurate.

Wow, did he just say the Holocaust was mainly about Christians being prosecuted.
I just can't wait for Christmas and all the "War on Christmas" stuff

The fact that Santorum, Perry, and Cain were all considered legitimate options for POTUS is pretty scary.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Frazzled wrote:

 SilverMK2 wrote:
Well... he sounds like a tool...

Your hearing is...accurate.

Could this possibly be the face of a tool?

Honestly people, with a name like Santorum did you really expect anything else to come out?!

PhantomViper wrote:
Honestly people, with a name like Santorum did you really expect anything else to come out?!

If you actually know what Santorum has spewed out in the past, you actually wouldn't be surprised.

http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/santorum-satan-systematically-destroying-america

Yes.

Vote for this guy. He'll make the buses run on time.

 Frazzled wrote:
Yes.

Vote for this guy. He'll make the buses run on time.

Well, he failed spectacularly then...

My mother has just came home from a vacation in Italy last week, she said that its pretty normal there for trains and buses to run 30 or 40 minutes late on average.

A dictator that can't even make the trains run on time is a pretty crap dictator indeed.

 d-usa wrote:
The fact that Santorum, Perry, and Cain were all considered legitimate options for POTUS is pretty scary.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Frazzled wrote:

 SilverMK2 wrote:
Well... he sounds like a tool...

Your hearing is...accurate.

Could this possibly be the face of a tool?

Hard to say. Maybe we should pound it into a few nails and see how effective it is?

Rusty Trombone wrote:
Way to equate progressives with Nazis, Rick.

American religious freedom isn't threatened, dillhole...it religion's stranglehold on telling other's how to live that is. I think you do not understand what freedom means. And since when does the gub mint tell anyone what to believe in?

Tell that to the Little Sisters of the Poor.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Frazzled wrote:

 SilverMK2 wrote:
Well... he sounds like a tool...

Your hearing is...accurate.

That too...

 whembly wrote:

Tell that to the Little Sisters of the Poor.

Biased article is biased

The comments are almost as good as the article for pants on head Christian frothing over being treated the same as everyone else.

 whembly wrote:

Rusty Trombone wrote:
Way to equate progressives with Nazis, Rick.

American religious freedom isn't threatened, dillhole...it religion's stranglehold on telling other's how to live that is. I think you do not understand what freedom means. And since when does the gub mint tell anyone what to believe in?

Tell that to the Little Sisters of the Poor.

See now, this is a perfect example of why it's hard to take "we're under attack" so seriously. Because the religious right has made it seem like every decision that goes against their beliefs is a threat to their very existence.

Is that situation frelled up? Sure; no idea why you would argue a group of nuns aren't religious (unless there is some technical non-religious-bureauratic reason; it's the federal government, after all). Are they actually under attack? Not in the slightest. No one is threatening to murder these nuns. No one is threatening to forcibly convert them to another religion. No one is threatening or forcing them to have abortions, give abortions, or preside over abortions. Is it a crappy thing to do to a group of people who do a lot of good and ask for next to nothing in return? Yes, absolutely. But it's not them being "under attack".

Lets just ignore the Nuns have effectively won that case already. Why let reality cloud a good headline for the internet tabloids?

 LordofHats wrote:
Lets just ignore the Nuns have effectively won that case already. Why let reality cloud a good headline for the internet tabloids?

That's not the point... they had to fight for it.