Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
2015/01/04 20:03:23
Subject: Israel withholds tax revenue from Palestine over move to join International Criminal Court
Israel has halted transfers of the tax revenue it collects on behalf of the Palestinians in retaliation for their move to join the international criminal court in the Hague, according to Israeli media.
The Palestinians announced earlier this week that they are joining the international criminal court in the Hague to pursue war-crimes charges against Israel. The move is meant to pressure Israel into withdrawing from the territories that Palestinians demand for a future state.
The move drew threats of retaliation from Israel and criticism from the US government, which called it “counterproductive”.
The daily newspaper Haaretz reported on Saturday that Israel had decided to withhold the taxes it collects for the Palestinians under the current interim peace accords and transfers each month to the Palestinian Authority. December’s tax transfer is about $127m, according to Haaretz.
An unnamed Israeli government official confirmed the substance of the reports but refused to elaborate.
Senior Palestinian negotiator Saeb Erekat lashed out at the Israeli manoeuvre, calling it an act of piracy and a “collective punishment” against the Palestinian people.
“If Israel thinks that through economic pressure it will succeed in diverting our approach from freedom and independence, then it is wrong,” Erekat told the Associated Press. “This is the money of the Palestinian people and Israel is not a donor country.”
Israel has stopped tax transfers before but such freezes have been short-lived.
Withholding the funds is just one of several actions Israel could take against the Palestinians, including expanding West Bank settlement construction and curbing certain privileges. Israel’s Channel 2 news reported on Saturday night that prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu would convene his cabinet in the coming days to discuss further retaliatory steps. The US government has not said how it will react, but it provides hundreds of millions of dollars in aid to the Palestinians.
Turning to the international court at the Hague marks a major policy shift, transforming Palestinian president Mahmoud Abbas’s relations with Israel from tense to openly hostile.
Abbas has been under heavy domestic pressure to take stronger action against Israel amid months of rising tensions over the collapse of US-brokered peace talks last spring, a 50-day war between Israel and Palestinian militants in Gaza over the summer, a recent spate of deadly Palestinian attacks on Israelis, and unrest over access to a key holy site in Jerusalem.
JERUSALEM — The Israeli government plans to withhold at least $127 million in tax revenue from the Palestinian Authority, an Israeli official confirmed Saturday, as tensions between the two sides escalated.
The move appears to be a response to Palestinian attempts to join the International Criminal Court in The Hague.
The decision comes after a week of what Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu described as “unilateral moves” by the Palestinians. They included trying to win passage of a U.N. resolution imposing a time frame for a peace accord and an Israeli withdrawal from occupied territory. The Palestinians have also said they will sign 16 international treaties, including one that would make them members of the ICC, as the international court is known.
The U.N. resolution did not pass in the Security Council. But if the Palestinians’ application to the ICC is successful, it would give them the ability to request investigations of alleged atrocities by Israel. That could include probing Israel’s actions last summer in the Gaza Strip, where it fought a 50-day war with the militant Palestinian group Hamas. More than 2,000 Gazans were killed in the fighting, according to U.N. figures. Israel maintains that a significant number of those slain were militants who fired rockets at Israeli communities.
Although it is still unclear whether the Palestinians will be accepted to the ICC or will succeed with the other treaties, their efforts have exacerbated an already tense situation, pushing Israelis and Palestinians further from the negotiating table.
The U.S. government has criticized the Palestinians’ actions, and some members of Congress have warned that humanitarian aid to the Palestinians may be in jeopardy if they continue in the current direction.
In Israel, Netanyahu and members of his coalition have already cautioned that the Palestinians have more cause for concern when it comes to war-crimes investigations than Israel does.
The Israeli government’s decision to freeze the taxes it collects on behalf of the Palestinians from custom and excise duties — funds the Palestinian Authority relies on to pay salaries and provide public services — appears likely to cause a further flare-up.
“It is not good news. The Palestinians are already upset and frustrated. They believe that Israel has been dragging its feet in the negotiations for years and they have no choice but to take unilateral moves in the international community,” said Moshe Maoz, a professor in the Department of Islamic and Middle Eastern Studies at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem.
Maoz said holding back the tax funds could have harsh consequences, including sparking bloodshed or maybe even an intifada, or violent Palestinian uprising, like those of the late 1980s and early 2000s.
Israel has withheld tax revenue meant for the Palestinians in the past, but such standoffs eased after international pressure and backtracking by the Palestinians. This time, however, that seems unlikely to happen.
According to a report Saturday in the Israeli newspaper Haaretz, the Palestinians were meant to have received the $127 million on Friday, but Netanyahu, during an emergency meeting held Thursday to discuss Israel’s response to the ICC application, decided not to transfer December’s funds. It was unclear whether Israel planned to hold up the tax revenue for additional months going forward.
An Israeli official confirmed the blocking of the funds. He spoke on the condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to provide the information.
In a statement Saturday night, Saeb Erekat, a member of the Palestine Liberation Organization executive committee, criticized the Israeli move.
“Israel is once again responding to our legal steps with further illegal collective punishments,” said Erekat, adding that the Palestinians were told unofficially on Saturday that the tax revenue would not be transferred. “This is not Israeli charity to the Palestinian people they are withholding, but our own money, which is rightfully ours.”
Based on previous peace agreements, Israel collects millions of dollars in customs duties on behalf of the Palestinian Authority. Most of the money is from goods that arrive at Israeli ports destined for the Palestinian market, but there is also indirect taxation on fuel, social benefits, health services and income taxes from Palestinians employed in Israel. The money is normally transferred monthly to the Palestinian Authority.
So Israel attempts to block the Palestinians from joining the ICC in order to bring legal action against Israel for their conduct in the recent hostilities by collectively punishing the entire palestinian people through the withholding of funding. Really gonna persuade people that you didn't do anything wrong...
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/01/04 20:08:35
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
2015/01/04 20:26:48
Subject: Re:Israel withholds tax revenue from Palestine over move to join International Criminal Court
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
The claim of warcrimes is ludicrous.
If what Israel has done are considered warcrimes, then the Palestinians are even more guilty of warcrimes.
Its a case of the kettle calling the dirty plate black.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
If what Israel has done are considered warcrimes, then the Palestinians are even more guilty of warcrimes.
Its a case of the kettle calling the dirty plate black.
So having a war crime committed against you gives you the right of committing a war crime back?
Not a very good stance to take, really. Especially when the majority of people who will be harmed by such actions are those who didn't have anything to do with the crime committed against you in the first place.
Palestinians have done a lot of things wrong, yes. But that doesn't make Israel's apparent indiscriminate shelling of homes, schools and hospitals, resulting in the deaths of hundreds of innocent people, any less wrong.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2015/01/04 20:33:47
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
2015/01/04 20:35:33
Subject: Re:Israel withholds tax revenue from Palestine over move to join International Criminal Court
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
I wouldn't consider defending your nation against rocket attacks and suicide bombers to be a war crime. Yet the Palestinians get a free pass when they deliberately target schools and other civilian targets.
Israel doesn't target civilians. In fact they're very good at minimizing civilian casualties. But the Palestinians actually want civilian casualties because its just a PR stunt for them. Its not a warcrime to kill a civilian accidentally if a terrorist was deliberately using them as human shields.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
A Town Called Malus wrote: Palestinians have done a lot of things wrong, yes. But that doesn't make Israeli indiscriminate shelling of homes, schools and hospitals, resulting in the deaths of hundreds of innocent people, any less wrong.
Israeli "shelling" has been anything but indiscriminate. I don't even think shelling is what they have done in most cases. They've done a lot of precision strikes with aircraft. The problem is Hamas purposely sets up firing positions right next to, or on top of homes, schools, and hospitals.
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
Indeed. The terrorists deliberately set up their base of operations and weapon stores near those targets. Its a win-win situation for them. Either they'll be safe from attack OR they get to parade the dead bodies of children around in front of cameras.
The people committing the warcrime in this situations aren't the people firing the missiles, its the dirt bags hiding behind women and children.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Law of Armed Conflict makes it very clear that setting weapons in places like churches, schools, hospitals, etc... is illegal. Doing so does make them legal targets.
The only ones committing crimes in such situations are the Palestinians.
Full Frontal Nerdity
2015/01/04 20:55:19
Subject: Re:Israel withholds tax revenue from Palestine over move to join International Criminal Court
Maybe not, but they do practice something called Collective Punishment. If someone takes a potshot at Israelis the IDF happily takes out a few houses "to make sure it doesn't happen again". And they often do quite dickish moves when after a suspect, such as demolishing his home (or the home of his parents). If that leaves 20 people homeless, well, serves them right for being related to the guy. As they say on the West Bank - you're not innocent until proven guilty, you're guilty until dead.
2015/01/04 21:02:07
Subject: Re:Israel withholds tax revenue from Palestine over move to join International Criminal Court
If what Israel has done are considered warcrimes, then the Palestinians are even more guilty of warcrimes.
Its a case of the kettle calling the dirty plate black.
So having a war crime committed against you gives you the right of committing a war crime back?
Not a very good stance to take, really. Especially when the majority of people who will be harmed by such actions are those who didn't have anything to do with the crime committed against you in the first place.
Palestinians have done a lot of things wrong, yes. But that doesn't make Israel's apparent indiscriminate shelling of homes, schools and hospitals, resulting in the deaths of hundreds of innocent people, any less wrong.
If Israel wanted to perform "indiscriminate shelling" there would be no one left alive in Gaza.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2015/02/04 22:27:01
Subject: Re:Israel withholds tax revenue from Palestine over move to join International Criminal Court
Maybe not, but they do practice something called Collective Punishment. If someone takes a potshot at Israelis the IDF happily takes out a few houses "to make sure it doesn't happen again". And they often do quite dickish moves when after a suspect, such as demolishing his home (or the home of his parents). If that leaves 20 people homeless, well, serves them right for being related to the guy. As they say on the West Bank - you're not innocent until proven guilty, you're guilty until dead.
You can forgive them for being heavy handed sometimes. They are surrounded by people who would enjoy nothing better than the complete extermination of all Jews.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Maybe not, but they do practice something called Collective Punishment. If someone takes a potshot at Israelis the IDF happily takes out a few houses "to make sure it doesn't happen again". And they often do quite dickish moves when after a suspect, such as demolishing his home (or the home of his parents). If that leaves 20 people homeless, well, serves them right for being related to the guy. As they say on the West Bank - you're not innocent until proven guilty, you're guilty until dead.
You can forgive them for being heavy handed sometimes. They are surrounded by people who would enjoy nothing better than the complete extermination of all Jews.
No, people can't seem to forgive them for being heavy handed... they have no concept of what life is like there, having thousands of rockets and mortars launched at them every year...
Full Frontal Nerdity
2015/01/04 22:02:03
Subject: Re:Israel withholds tax revenue from Palestine over move to join International Criminal Court
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
Right, people should forgive them for being heavy handed.
Actually, they should praise them for being light handed given what the situation is actually like. I mean, they might as well be surrounded by Nazis given how much their neighbors hate them.
And its not like Israel did anything that would warrant this level of hatred. Nothing really justifies declaring war on them the day they become a sovereign nation.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Maybe not, but they do practice something called Collective Punishment. If someone takes a potshot at Israelis the IDF happily takes out a few houses "to make sure it doesn't happen again". And they often do quite dickish moves when after a suspect, such as demolishing his home (or the home of his parents). If that leaves 20 people homeless, well, serves them right for being related to the guy. As they say on the West Bank - you're not innocent until proven guilty, you're guilty until dead.
You can forgive them for being heavy handed sometimes. They are surrounded by people who would enjoy nothing better than the complete extermination of all Jews.
Actually no, I can't. They'd probably find less people wanted them dead if they didn't punish innocent people for happening to live close to someone who fired a rocket at them.
Collective punishment is a violation of the laws of war and the Geneva conventions.
Another part of the laws of war which Israel may have breached is that of proportionality.
A crime occurs if there is an intentional attack directed against civilians (principle of distinction) (Article 8(2)(b)(i)) or an attack is launched on a military objective in the knowledge that the incidental civilian injuries would be clearly excessive in relation to the anticipated military advantage (principle of proportionality) (Article 8(2)(b)(iv)).
In the most recent conflict, the UN estimates the number of Palestinian militants killed as 557. In contrast to that they estimate the deaths of 1,500 civilians (including 490 children). So 69% of casualties were civilian. Then there are estimates to 11,00 palestinians wounded, 500,000 displaced, 20,000 homes destroyed.
In the instance of the attack on the hospital which they claimed was being used to store rockets they killed 5 patients and injured 70 people, including 30 medical personnel. Was that proportionate to the small military advantage of possibly removing a small rocket stockpile? Considering that it didn't seemingly reduce Hamas' ability to launch rocket attacks, at all?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/01/04 22:12:55
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
2015/01/04 22:12:49
Subject: Re:Israel withholds tax revenue from Palestine over move to join International Criminal Court
Maybe not, but they do practice something called Collective Punishment. If someone takes a potshot at Israelis the IDF happily takes out a few houses "to make sure it doesn't happen again". And they often do quite dickish moves when after a suspect, such as demolishing his home (or the home of his parents). If that leaves 20 people homeless, well, serves them right for being related to the guy. As they say on the West Bank - you're not innocent until proven guilty, you're guilty until dead.
You can forgive them for being heavy handed sometimes. They are surrounded by people who would enjoy nothing better than the complete extermination of all Jews.
Actually no, I can't. They'd probably find less people wanted them dead if they didn't punish innocent people for happening to live close to someone who fired a rocket at them.
No, they really wouldn't hate them less.
Israel was invaded mere hours after it was established at midnight on May 14th 1948 without provocation.
They were invaded by Jordan, Iraq, Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, and a bunch of Saudi volunteers.
Ever since then Israel has been in a constant state of war with people who have nothing less than genocide on their minds.
Another part of the laws of war which Israel may have breached is that of proportionality.
A crime occurs if there is an intentional attack directed against civilians (principle of distinction) (Article 8(2)(b)(i)) or an attack is launched on a military objective in the knowledge that the incidental civilian injuries would be clearly excessive in relation to the anticipated military advantage (principle of proportionality) (Article 8(2)(b)(iv)).
In the most recent conflict, Israel estimated around 170-200 militant casualties, yet there were around 550 civilian casualties.
In the instance of the attack on the hospital which they claimed was being used to store rockets they killed 5 patients and injured 70 people, including 30 medical personnel. Was that proportionate to the small military advantage of possibly removing a small rocket stockpile? Considering that it didn't seemingly reduce Hamas' ability to launch rocket attacks, at all?
That's an entirely subjective law of war(beside the fact that the very idea of war having laws is silly)
There is no definition of what is "excessive" or "proportional".
Besides, it clearly a choice of either you let them fire that rocket at your civilians and kill a bunch, or you destroy the rocket and kill a bunch of their civilians. Neither is a good choice, but its the lesser of two evils.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Total Israeli civilian losses over the whole 50 day conflict was 6 dead. Speaks volumes about the effectiveness of Hamas' rockets compared to Israeli fighter craft and tanks. Though I guess it helps that Israel has a sophisticated anti-rocket system that intercepts 90% of all rocket attacks which would hit populated areas.
Besides, it clearly a choice of either you let them fire that rocket at your civilians and kill a bunch, or you destroy the rocket and kill a bunch of their civilians. Neither is a good choice, but its the lesser of two evils.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2015/01/04 22:18:56
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
2015/01/04 22:15:00
Subject: Israel withholds tax revenue from Palestine over move to join International Criminal Court
If Israel is innocent of war crimes then they should have no problem with the Palestinians joining the ICC. That opens the Palestinian war criminals to prosecution.
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
Da Boss wrote: If Israel is innocent of war crimes then they should have no problem with the Palestinians joining the ICC. That opens the Palestinian war criminals to prosecution.
I am not familiar with how the courts operate, but why would the Palestinians need to be members of the court to be charged with warcrimes? If thats true, then it makes the entire organization even more laughable.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Like all international bodies, it only operates on the co-operation of members. Nations cannot be forced to comply. That's my understanding of it anyway- not an international law specialist!
Da Boss wrote: Like all international bodies, it only operates on the co-operation of members. Nations cannot be forced to comply. That's my understanding of it anyway- not an international law specialist!
You might think it's laughable, I think it's better than nothing.
This also makes Israels opposition to Palestine joining even more ridiculous, as they could just ignore the verdict if it went against them, safe in the knowledge that their US support won't care either.
Isreal and the US aren't even ratified members, so the ICC doesn't have any real pull over them, at all.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/01/04 22:27:17
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
2015/01/04 22:27:03
Subject: Israel withholds tax revenue from Palestine over move to join International Criminal Court
The US is not a signatory (of course), but the entire thing is symbolic. If they open prosecution, all Israel has to do is refuse to comply. Very little can be done about it if they do that unless international opinion is very firmly against Israel. It isn't at the moment, though it is shifting due to their stupid policies.
What the Palestinians want is the recognition, the publicity, and within their own circles, the politicians who are doing this want their people to see them as being effective and take support away from Hamas.
But Israeli opposition is certainly more about internal Israeli politics and grandstanding than it is about any worry that they'll have to hand over soldiers. Israel knows that as long as big brother USA has it's back, it has nothing to worry about, internationally.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/01/04 22:31:56
A Town Called Malus wrote: Total Israeli civilian losses over the whole 50 day conflict was 6 dead. Speaks volumes about the effectiveness of Hamas' rockets compared to Israeli fighter craft and tanks. Though I guess it helps that Israel has a sophisticated anti-rocket system that intercepts 90% of all rocket attacks which would hit populated areas.
Besides, it clearly a choice of either you let them fire that rocket at your civilians and kill a bunch, or you destroy the rocket and kill a bunch of their civilians. Neither is a good choice, but its the lesser of two evils.
Because the Israeli's spend every day of their lives being attacked by these rockets. They've got defensive drills down to a T. Their probably better at it then our military is.
Does that make it right? Does that make it fair to them? Only 6 die, well that's fine. Nevermind that their lives are constantly being disrupted with the threat of death and maiming, for no other reason then the fact that they exist.
Full Frontal Nerdity
2015/01/04 22:30:00
Subject: Israel withholds tax revenue from Palestine over move to join International Criminal Court
Two sides to the conflict djones520. Does it make it right that the Palestinians were dispossessed and continue to have their land taken from them, their settlements bulldozed and their economy strangled?
It's not a one sided issue. But I can see we're just going to dance the same old dance here.
Da Boss wrote: Two sides to the conflict djones520. Does it make it right that the Palestinians were dispossessed and continue to have their land taken from them, their settlements bulldozed and their economy strangled?
It's not a one sided issue. But I can see we're just going to dance the same old dance here.
It is not a one sided issue, but there one side is the one who is constantly breaking cease fires, conducting terrorist activities, using the state to teach their children hatred in order to keep the status quo, and otherwise has zero intent on finding a peaceful resolution to the matter.
Maybe if the international community would actually start treating the Palestinians with half of the bs they give to the Israeli's, instead of treating them like innocent victims, then this issue could be resolved.
Full Frontal Nerdity
2015/01/04 22:36:49
Subject: Israel withholds tax revenue from Palestine over move to join International Criminal Court
Pffft. come off it. The international community has been far more generous the Israel than to Palestine. Most of it doesn't even recognize Palestinian statehood!
I could throw stuff back about Israel constantly expanding into territory, ignoring treaties and so on and so on.
No doubt, the Palestinians use more disgusting tactics, and are more fanatical than the Israelis (though Israel's shift rightward might make that obsolete in the future too). That's a function of the power dynamic here. One side fights with simple rocket launchers and AKs. The other has one of the most sophisticated and well funded militaries on the planet. If you want to fight something like that, you fight dirty, or you die.
I mean, unless you're saying that the Palestinians should have just peacefully accepted being dispossessed en-mass continuing to have land taken from them piece by piece. I don't know many groups of people who would accept that- I'd say most Americans would say they'd fight to the death to prevent that from happening to them.
And due respect, I'd rather not engage in the he-said-she-said over Israel Palestine too much in this thread. I think the application to the court is interesting, and it might be more interesting than having the same old arguments from our entrenched positions.
Why do you think Israel is worried about this, if it knows it won't have to hand over troops? Do you think it might be found guilty of war crimes?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/01/04 22:39:01
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
The Palestinians would be allowed to live in Israel as citizens if they'd accept it. But instead they'd rather hold onto irrational hatred and the idea that they could have their own nation.
The only reason they even have delusions of statehood is because its a convenient rallying point against Israel. If Israel wasn't there they'd be getting ground under the heels of one of the other neighboring countries(who don't like the Palestinians either, they just hate Israel more)
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Palestinians would be allowed to live in Israel as second class citizens.
I don't think the hatred is that irrational when their land was taken from them by force, do you really think it is?
Your hypothetical holds no water - we have no idea what the Middle East would be like minus Israel (though my money is on it being a far less extreme place, far more friendly to the west and far less entrenched in Islamic extremism. If we're playing hypotheticals, if the middle east had no Israel, I highly doubt 9/11 would have happened.)
Da Boss wrote: Palestinians would be allowed to live in Israel as second class citizens.
I don't think the hatred is that irrational when their land was taken from them by force, do you really think it is?
Your hypothetical holds no water - we have no idea what the Middle East would be like minus Israel (though my money is on it being a far less extreme place, far more friendly to the west and far less entrenched in Islamic extremism. If we're playing hypotheticals, if the middle east had no Israel, I highly doubt 9/11 would have happened.)
Second class citizens? Like all the other Arabs?
They had no land before Israel existed. They were not a state before Israel existed. It was British land. They were offered the chance to have their own nation, and they decided to go to war instead.
Full Frontal Nerdity
2015/01/04 22:45:20
Subject: Israel withholds tax revenue from Palestine over move to join International Criminal Court
They were offered all the marginal land, while Israel was established on the prime agricultural land and coastline. Look at the crazy way the land is divided into two chunks of "palestinian" land - the division favoured Israel and disregarded the Palestinians.
Also "they had no land" - I'm pretty sure they lived on, and owned the land, regardless of which government they were under.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/01/04 22:48:21
