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* The feel of the range has been re-skinned to make it less ‘Terminator’

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

AlexHolker wrote:

syypher wrote:I'm pretty sure Necrons is coming out in June/July.

We know they aren't June, or we would have received the Incoming! announcement last month. If we don't receive an announcement tomorrow, they probably aren't July.

Well for sure from the stores I order from I have been told new Necron models are coming out in either June or July. That's why GW stopped sending them specific models and those models are now only GW direct. (July in the case that you said their not coming out in June) So at the very least if not new codex we are at least getting new models...Not as good but still.

Normally new models comes with a new codex right?

I had originally been filled with a sense of pleasant anticipation at the thought of this. After reading that Matt Ward" Grey Knights are actually the same as Khorne Berserkers" nonsense, now I'm mostly filled with nervous trepidation.

That and apparently there are sergeant upgrades for squads and such. Having trouble making them not play like space marines my ass...

Kurgash wrote:That and apparently there are sergeant upgrades for squads and such. Having trouble making them not play like space marines my ass...

The only way I could see seargants working is by making them Bronze Lords. If memory serves, and I'm going mainly off Hellforged here, bronze lords seem to be fairly numerous and could fit this role. However, I hate the bronze/silver/gold/platinum lord system, and Fall of Damnos seems to have departed from it, so there goes my idea...

If they do that does that mean for every Warrior squad we'll need to buy a $15 Lord blister to go with it? No thanks times 100 GW.

I like the idea of using Pariahs as "Sergeants" myself. In the current rule set you get the benefits of the Pariah's melee capabilities and LD modifier to help benefit the unit, but then it becomes unable to be teleported due to the presence of the non-Necron.

I rather stick to mass conformity than sarge equivalents.

asimo77 wrote:I rather stick to mass conformity than sarge equivalents.

Completely agree with you there, Necrons should be phalanxes of featureless death, not squads of featureless death led by slightly less featureless death, with the army being ruled by death that wears a pretty red dress when she goes out with her gal pal blood angels.

One idea I had was to make the Lords Mephiston-esque in power level and points. These solo units that buffed friendly Necrons around them while packing a serious punch. This gives the enemy an interesting desicion: go for the uber leader and thus remove the buffs or try to phase out the buffed phalanxes.

Since it seems to the case in the fluff that Necrons are always led by some indomitable high level lord, and defeating him is the only way to end a Necron invasion I think there could be some potential in this idea.

Just my two cents but i think it might go oldest to newer armies. GW should be able to see that they can leave tau alone for a while and get more people buying revamped older armies. This is the order I think.

Sisters
Necrons
Tau

Surely, GW would see tau is already widely played while the other two haven't been touched for millennia. If I were them, I'd get people buying the armies they don't already have.

Monk1junk1 wrote:Just my two cents but i think it might go oldest to newer armies. GW should be able to see that they can leave tau alone for a while and get more people buying revamped older armies. This is the order I think.

Sisters
Necrons
Tau

Surely, GW would see tau is already widely played while the other two haven't been touched for millennia. If I were them, I'd get people buying the armies they don't already have.

That order, whilst being my preferred order, is unlikely, as it means 2 imperial releases consecutively, followed by 2 xeno releases. " -> -> " would seem to be more likely.

I'd do it;

Necrons
Sisters
Eldar
Dark Angels
Tau

myself. That keeps the Imperial/Xenos/Imperial pattern, and I think Eldar need it more than Tau at the moment, though Tau do still need it as well.

Yeah I don't like the idea of sergeants either. They should be rows and rows of robots just marching forward and blasting away at everything without making a sound.

Necros wrote:Yeah I don't like the idea of sergeants either. They should be rows and rows of robots just marching forward and blasting away at everything without making a sound.

Nothing but the sound of a hundred thousand metal footsteps in perfect unison and the crackle of Gauss weaponry stripping life away at the atomic level

I love Necrons so much...

Since GK just got their big release, I can't see that happening.

I don't like the idea of Serge's for Necrons, but I like the idea of Pariahs being in the units of Warriors. Not as a leadership role, but because there are less of them, and the C'Tan would in theory want to spread their effect around further rather than clustering them up into a single unit, plus giving their valuable commodity the protection of a bodyguard of Warriors.

Other than the 3rd edition rules there really isn't any reason fluffwise why the Pariahs can't teleport. I think it would be fair for them not to have a WBB ability but as a command type character they should be fine and be able to teleport.

Scarey Nerd wrote:

Kurgash wrote:That and apparently there are sergeant upgrades for squads and such. Having trouble making them not play like space marines my ass...

The only way I could see seargants working is by making them Bronze Lords. If memory serves, and I'm going mainly off Hellforged here, bronze lords seem to be fairly numerous and could fit this role. However, I hate the bronze/silver/gold/platinum lord system, and Fall of Damnos seems to have departed from it, so there goes my idea...

I dislike the idea of sergeants for Necrons as they simply do not need that role. The role of a sergeant is to reinforce the morale of his men and provide squad level leadership. Necrons do not need this. Necron warriors are already LD10 - they do not feel fear, or doubt, or indecision.

Scarey Nerd wrote:

Necros wrote:Yeah I don't like the idea of sergeants either. They should be rows and rows of robots just marching forward and blasting away at everything without making a sound.

Nothing but the sound of a hundred thousand metal footsteps in perfect unison and the crackle of Gauss weaponry stripping life away at the atomic level

I love Necrons so much...

Pariahs can't march in step?

Look, I love the image of legions of Necrons as much as anyone, but I have been a major supporter of Pariahs as upgrade characters for Warrior units for quite awhile. There is no solid fluff against it, and there is no reason that Pariahs ccan't be marching side-by-side with the warriors silently transmitting orders.

From a rules perspective, they are perfect for it. Pariah's special rules are largely wasted by bunching them up into one large expensive unit. Many people seem to want to make them into assault termies for Crons, and that is simply not what they are made for, even with trying to shoehorn them into the role with stat/rule changes. Create a new unit for that purpose, but put the Pariahs into the warrior squads.

They vastly increase the effectiveness and desirability of having warrior squads in a list. The 12" Ld7 bubble is about as effective as SitW for psychic defense, as well as the other uses it has. Give them the Necron special rule (which they should have regardless of how they are implemented in the new dex), +1 attack, +1 initiative, drop them to T4, and you have a very nice assault deterrant with the hidden warscythe.

Don't like seeing pariahs in a "sergeant" role? Don't take them and spend the points elsewhere.

Monk1junk1 wrote:Just my two cents but i think it might go oldest to newer armies. GW should be able to see that they can leave tau alone for a while and get more people buying revamped older armies. This is the order I think.

Sisters
Necrons
Tau

Surely, GW would see tau is already widely played while the other two haven't been touched for millennia. If I were them, I'd get people buying the armies they don't already have.

The problem with your list though is Sisters are not truly the oldest army. Codex: Witch Hunters released in 2004. Codex: Necrons 2002.

I'm very nervous at the moment. Necrons are the only army I like in 40k. I hope they don't get changed to something I don't like.

Ouze wrote:

Scarey Nerd wrote:

Kurgash wrote:That and apparently there are sergeant upgrades for squads and such. Having trouble making them not play like space marines my ass...

The only way I could see seargants working is by making them Bronze Lords. If memory serves, and I'm going mainly off Hellforged here, bronze lords seem to be fairly numerous and could fit this role. However, I hate the bronze/silver/gold/platinum lord system, and Fall of Damnos seems to have departed from it, so there goes my idea...

I dislike the idea of sergeants for Necrons as they simply do not need that role. The role of a sergeant is to reinforce the morale of his men and provide squad level leadership. Necrons do not need this. Necron warriors are already LD10 - they do not feel fear, or doubt, or indecision.

Yes but the utilization of the Pariahs in a Warp nullifying role does fit and would be a resource that is potent enough in one Pariah that it would tactically make more sense to spread them around. They may not 'lead' the squads but they certainly could serve a heavy weapon or special ability role.

Kurgash wrote:That and apparently there are sergeant upgrades for squads and such. Having trouble making them not play like space marines my ass...

Where did you hear this? I haven't seen or heard anything like this before this post, and it's getting people in a tizzy. I don't see it happening.

Brother SRM wrote:

Kurgash wrote:That and apparently there are sergeant upgrades for squads and such. Having trouble making them not play like space marines my ass...

Where did you hear this? I haven't seen or heard anything like this before this post, and it's getting people in a tizzy. I don't see it happening.

But can't you just see it, just over the horizon? Necron warriors all equipped with frag grenades, Gauss Weaponry loses its auto-glance ability, they can be mounted in a transport called the Scorpion that can self-repair immobilised results on a 6, "Logical retreat" where they can auto-fail morale checks... See where I'm going here?

"Duh, peoples seem to like spehss mahreens, maybe if'n we make necrobots or whatever they're called (It's been so long since we updahted them i've forgotted) be almoest the same, they'll buy dem more!"

NecronLord3 wrote:Yes but the utilization of the Pariahs in a Warp nullifying role does fit and would be a resource that is potent enough in one Pariah that it would tactically make more sense to spread them around. They may not 'lead' the squads but they certainly could serve a heavy weapon or special ability role.

This, I could buy. Pariahs as "specialists" rather then as Sergeants. Still, would adding a Pariah prevent the squad from teleporting? I'd say it should.

Of course, if Matt Ward has his way, Pariahs will be able to teleport 3d6 + assault anyway, so long as they killed a squad of Grey Knight purifiers and were wearing their blood.

Ouze wrote:

NecronLord3 wrote:Yes but the utilization of the Pariahs in a Warp nullifying role does fit and would be a resource that is potent enough in one Pariah that it would tactically make more sense to spread them around. They may not 'lead' the squads but they certainly could serve a heavy weapon or special ability role.

This, I could buy. Pariahs as "specialists" rather then as Sergeants. Still, would adding a Pariah prevent the squad from teleporting? I'd say it should.

Of course, if Matt Ward has his way, Pariahs will be able to teleport 3d6 + assault anyway, so long as they killed a squad of Grey Knight purifiers and were wearing their blood.

They could easily do the same approach to Pariahs as they did with Wolf Guard. Buy a unit, and then when deploying you peel off Pariahs and attach them to other units as upgrade characters. You could also go the same route as Sanguinary Priests and Haemonculi and buy several that act as ICs in a single FOC slot, and then distribute them how you will.

I think on the teleporting thing, it's complicated. I don't see any fluff basis to limiting the teleportation to strictly "old school" Necrons. On top of that, I haven't seen anything in the fluff that really points to them being made out of anything different than the same living metal used on the majority of the Necron stuff. From a rules standpoint, they are too slow and too easy to take out when you look at older "less advanced" Crons. The Necron rule and the benefits it comes with would go a long way in helping that situation out.

If giving them the Necron rule just isn't going to happen, they need to lift the "Necron" qualifier for teleporting, as that's what I think they should be focusing on for the mobility of Crons.

Maelstrom808 wrote:I think on the teleporting thing, it's complicated. I don't see any fluff basis to limiting the teleportation to strictly "old school" Necrons.

Under the superior, 2nd edition fluff for Gauss-flayer technology, the idea makes perfect sense: a race that has the technology to teleport the enemy's flesh intact (given a sufficently powerful Gauss-flayer) should be more than capable of doing the same with non-enemies. The new fluff does not, to my knowledge, provide any indication that the Necrons possess this capability. And it would be more difficult - living metal is presumably less susceptible to system shock or misplaced organs than human flesh.

On top of that, I haven't seen anything in the fluff that really points to them being made out of anything different than the same living metal used on the majority of the Necron stuff.

Here I disagree. There has to be something in a Pariah that makes it a Pariah. It can't be the soul, because a blank doesn't have one. And it can't be the body, if the body has been completely replaced with living metal.

Aduro wrote:Necrons
Sisters
Eldar
Dark Angels
Tau

Why this? Sisters are the most viable out of that list. Eldar are still very competitive but require much skill and timing. Dark Angels have been revived by the FAQ with Deathwing even being a bit overpowered thanks to how insanely inexpensive Belial is.

After Necrons, Tau are the weakest codex and deserve the next book release. I would have Tau as mostly just a book release as the line is nearly all plastic anyways; followed by Sisters having a Dark Eldar type release.

AlexHolker wrote:

Maelstrom808 wrote:I think on the teleporting thing, it's complicated. I don't see any fluff basis to limiting the teleportation to strictly "old school" Necrons.

Under the superior, 2nd edition fluff for Gauss-flayer technology, the idea makes perfect sense: a race that has the technology to teleport the enemy's flesh intact (given a sufficently powerful Gauss-flayer) should be more than capable of doing the same with non-enemies. The new fluff does not, to my knowledge, provide any indication that the Necrons possess this capability. And it would be more difficult - living metal is presumably less susceptible to system shock or misplaced organs than human flesh.

On top of that, I haven't seen anything in the fluff that really points to them being made out of anything different than the same living metal used on the majority of the Necron stuff.

Here I disagree. There has to be something in a Pariah that makes it a Pariah. It can't be the soul, because a blank doesn't have one. And it can't be the body, if the body has been completely replaced with living metal.

The problem with most of the arguments you presented are (as far as I can tell) that they are based on what isn't in the current fluff as opposed to what is. The reality is we have no idea how Cron teleportation works, or what really goes into making a Pariah. The majority of the current fluff is built around the fact that no one knows how they do what they do (other than a little bit on how the gauss weapons work). There is a lot of assumption of certain abilities out there based on the way certain rules work, but rules are not fluff and fluff is not rules. Allowing Pariahs to take advantage of Cron teleportation, or even allowing them living metal in some form is hardly a large leap of faith, especially when compared to other changes in the GW has done with fluff in the past.

We all have our own ideas of what Crons are and should be, and that tends to vary wildly from player to player. Just look at all the arguments over what changes should be made in the new dex. Some people want the current MEQ warriors, some want more of a GEQ horde, still others want sort of a MEQ+ elite warrior. You have disagreements all over the place, even moreso than most "on the horizon" dexes mainly because the fluff is so open-ended and vague on so many things and we've had so much time to fill in the blanks in our own heads.

Brother SRM wrote:

Kurgash wrote:That and apparently there are sergeant upgrades for squads and such. Having trouble making them not play like space marines my ass...

Where did you hear this? I haven't seen or heard anything like this before this post, and it's getting people in a tizzy. I don't see it happening.

That Steel Spectre guy on Warseer, who originally said necrons were pushed back, made a post about new info he heard. Not from his same dude but new info none the less.

Ah here it is.

Spectral Dragon;5432930 wrote:*Holds head in hands*

Ok, I had to mention this because knowing Matt Ward, this is probably true.

There ARE squad leaders in the codex, and the feel of necrons as well as their fluff, even though it is drastically being changed, is simply going to be so drastically changed they are going to be virtually unrecognizable.

FNP (I don't want to play plague marines) is in the codex. Phase out is changed and renamed into something stupid. One of the new units doesn't fit the army at all.

In short, it's Matt's usual work.

This from a different source than the one that told me that they were going to be pushed back. I trust the guy who told me they are being pushed back more, this guy is usually only correct half the time.

Salt Required. I hope this doesn't pan out.