Rumour about changes of GW paint range (now with paint names and colour diagram)

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**Lockark**

Aerethan wrote:@Loki

Vallejo Game Colour has Heavy Pigment paints which are the same as foundations. Heavy red actually covers better than Mechrite Red.

I haven't tried their inks yet though.

Just to throw out their, Reaper's "HD Paints" are suppose to be comparable to foundation paints. I don't know for sure since I've only ever used reaper's regular paints, but I've heard them recommended.

**Knights-Abhorrent**

Reading through that list makes my eyes hurt, but it explains why my local GW store doesn't regularly restock paints I guess.
I'll be making sure to go down there next payday and grab a few pots of the paints I use mostly at the moment before they're discontinued.

CHANGE SCARES ME T_T

**Cameron Baum**

Tethyr13 wrote:@Cameron Braun - welcome to the hobby! I agree with other posters, the changes may be off-setting for a bit, but in 6-9 months, you'll love it.

@Do_I_Not_Like_That - Surely, you'll be second to get them all. I'll be in line before you ;-) And I have too many paints already.

And before I get any other comments - I have a rack full of coat d'arms, I have most of Vallejo's game color, and I have lots of the P3's (though not all yet). Though also as a FYI, I still have boxes of the old GW paints (as in 6s) and a paint rack full of the older (but still great and ready to go) flip tops.

@everyone - couple comments:

GW do occasionally change colors - but the frequency they do so is every - what? 6-8 years? Yes, I think they make a few mistakes....but they tend to correct them eventually - though I still like the old bleached bone over the new one.. (just me, i Guess)

Paint makes up about 10-12% of GW's overall business (different percentages can be attained by paint, paint+brushes+primers, etc.) This was true when I was there (and was mentioned by a retailer earlier in this same thread). They have a reason for every change - including weird name changes - though we may not know it or agree with the change.

Though the other paint lines are basically old colors/recreations/ or even the exact old paint, one point I'd like to make - GW left those paints/manufacturers behind. They consider them inferior (whether you agree or not). The only influence any of that might have on GW is the number of paints they put out.....and they'll use new paint guides in WD and others to corner the market on the newer gamers...who will buy it in droves and paint better than me ;-p. I doubt this is at all a shot across anyone's bow, or even in response to some ex-GW guys new paint range. More like something that had to happen because of the inferior supply they seemed to be getting from China....Though would be interested to find out if they are being supplied from someone here in Michigan.

But I don't know why people are upset....use whatever paints you like, from wherever. If you are painting a GW model, they still are doing ok. I seem to remember Mike McVey used other paint ranges back in the day at GW (and he helped formulate one of the changes to the paint range himself!). In fact in some really old articles, they didn't even remove them all from the photos of his painting area (though I don't think you could read any names/brands - I remember a Tamiya bottle or 2 in there some where)

Thanks for the welcome. The confusing changes are already loved by me, to be honest. I've found alternatives as a result, so am less dependant on one range. As for confusing, well, your well thought out post made me realise something, so I went and did it. And there is less confusion now...

I realised I'd not checked out Faeit212 lately, and when I did, I found this little gem in the post about the paint...

I got this info passed onto me about the new GW paint changes.
-144 colours are in.
-lots of renaming of colours, nothing is leaving.
-All in different catagories now, Shades (washes) bases, layers, glazes (thin washes) and textures.
-Prices are staying the same.

So it sounds to me like the main thing GW is doing is reorganizing the line to make it more clear which paints/washes/etc are designed to be used in what situations.

• There are 144 paints (the current line is only 73), so the range is doubling in size.
• Broken down into Bases (foundations), Layers (normal colours), shades (washes), Dry (essentially goopy paint for dry brushing), Glaze (thinned washes for easier blending), Texture (sand + colour) and Technical (liquid green stuff).
• Bottles are not changing.
• Every color is renamed, there will be a white dwarf with a comparison guide released. Blood red is now wild rider red, ultramarine blue is Calgar blue, skull white is white scar etc etc. There is a big expansion in the greens. There are pinks again, and more purple.
• Foundation white!! Named Ceramite White
• New how to paint book that includes a 90 minute DVD
• Mega paint set available year round now, but is super expensive apparently. Prices are apparently the same (for now).

So now, there is a bit more clarity. Even if it isn't true, it at least makes the waters less murky...

And Michigan again? I heard that place back in January, when I first heard about the paint changes. And back then, it was grade 42 paint being ordered by GW from there. And the highest grade is grade 50.

So, again, thanks for the well thought out post. And I hope what I've put up has elucidated matters somewhat...

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Lockark wrote:
Aerethan wrote:@Loki

Vallejo Game Colour has Heavy Pigment paints which are the same as foundations. Heavy red actually covers better than Mechrite Red.

I haven't tried their inks yet though.

Just to throw out their, Reaper's "HD Paints" are suppose to be comparable to foundation paints. I don't know for sure since I've only ever used reaper's regular paints, but I've heard them recommended.

Interesting. I was wondering where alternatives to Foundation paints could possibly come from...

**Grarg**

Aerethan wrote:@Loki

Vallejo Game Colour has Heavy Pigment paints which are the same as foundations. Heavy red actually covers better than Mechrite Red.

I haven't tried their inks yet though.

I have a bunch of the "heavies" but my heavy red is watery and doesn't cover well :( I think i'll have to get a new one.The rest are fine, the same as the foundations or better.

**Aerethan**

Ghaz wrote:
Aerethran wrote:Vallejo Game Colour has Heavy Pigment paints which are the same as foundations.

Which use the exact same formulation as their Model Color line.

And you got this information how?

And sadly Reapers HD line is lackluster. Granted I only have 2 colors(red and bone) but they don't cover all that well.

**Brother Weasel**

Cameron Baum wrote:

Am I jumping to new brands before knowing the actual truth? Yes. I'm wanting a stable range of paints, not a "guest of the week approach." My DE are not the standard black with coloured edging, they field more colours than that.

I am happy for this rumour, because it has pushed me to experiment with different brands, and thus see what else is out there. Which means that I'll no doubt get used to - and use extensively paints from ranges that are stable, and not ever shifting.

This rumour has taught me that there are plenty of viable alternatives, and that they are, in fact, at my doorstep.

guest of the last 6 year approch

you act like paint changes on a montly basis...

I think my point is simply we don't KNOW what the changes IF ANY there are... they could be making the best paints in the world.... they could be keeping the exact same paints with a rename and add of colors... (btw the only black with edge hilighted DE i've seen are online, all the ones in my area are all sorts of different colors

)

in any event i welcome an expansion of colors, even if i tend to use very few in general and mix what i need off those, having a diffrent base to play with is always good.

**Chemical Cutthroat**

It's the paint I've grown up using, so I tend to stick with it. New names, new paints... whatever, I'll adapt.

When the Foundation Paints came out, that was cool. I tried those, figured out how to use them effectively, and I'm still finding new uses for them.

When the new Washes came out and replaced the Inks, I tried those out, figured out how to use them, and applied them to my painting.

Over the course of these releases, I've improved my painting. It might be in some part due to the paint, and it may be in part to me getting better as well.

I still have a few other oddball paints in my box, but the majority are still Citadel Colors.

I ain't skeered... I just want a release date so I can start playing with them.

My only concern continues to be price. I'd be worried about GW showing up at my door to mug me, but since they fired all their staff and have management running the stores solo they really don't have the manpower for that. So I'm in the clear.

I have to go IN to the store for them to mug me.

Usually though, I just give them my card and shoot the sh*t, because the guy who works there is awesome. He doesn't set the prices, he doesn't want to listen to belly-aching about it. Might as well talk about Space Wolves and Beer.

**Cameron Baum**

Brother Weasel wrote:
Cameron Baum wrote:
as usual, with the internet... people are going to jump to a new brand, before knowing the actual truth? loads of people are going to go to vellejo because there might me some noticeable difference to most people? I paint, a lot... I might notice a real difference if there is one... but first i think i'll wait to see, for all i know they could be the best or worse paints ever...

as for frequently changing colors... i think our definition of frequently differs

Am I jumping to new brands before knowing the actual truth? Yes. I'm wanting a stable range of paints, not a "guest of the week approach." My DE are not the standard black with coloured edging, they field more colours than that.

I am happy for this rumour, because it has pushed me to experiment with different brands, and thus see what else is out there. Which means that I'll no doubt get used to - and use extensively paints from ranges that are stable, and not ever shifting.

This rumour has taught me that there are plenty of viable alternatives, and that they are, in fact, at my doorstep.

guest of the last 6 year approch

you act like paint changes on a montly basis...

I think my point is simply we don't KNOW what the changes IF ANY there are... they could be making the best paints in the world.... they could be keeping the exact same paints with a rename and add of colors... (btw the only black with edge hilighted DE i've seen are online, all the ones in my area are all sorts of different colors

)

in any event i welcome an expansion of colors, even if i tend to use very few in general and mix what i need off those, having a diffrent base to play with is always good.

**Thorn678**

I have a feeling that they aren't REALLY doing anything drastic. They're changing names and adding some foundation colors. I highly doubt they are cutting any colors or even introducing NEW colors, really. Probably just reintroducing old colors that they don't make anymore.

Then again, I'm an avid P3 fan (although I have the entire GW line as well...and use alot of vallejo and reaper) and I am feeling very anxious about the whole thing XD. What the heck do I know?

**Brother Weasel**

Cameron Baum wrote:
Wow... you mangled up the quote trimming... Amusing to see me now being quoted as saying stuff I never have.

fixed it, it's still early in California

You don't seem to realise that I don't care if the rumour is true or not. I've gone and started fielding alternatives. Lots of people have already stated that it is a supremely good idea to use paints from more than one company. I see this as a good idea. Oh, and you missed the post where I've fielded additional information. It helps to clarify things a lot.

i'm one of those who suggests using the best paint for the job, gw, p3, vellejo, hell use house paint if it works!

So what if there is an expansion of colours? I'm only using a certain number, and am not likely to be interested in the new ones. Because I'm phasing out GW colours as best I can. Foundations and Washes are still to be bought, but Only because I've yet to work out viable alternatives...

i care

I don't paint just 1 army... I paint armies, i paint single, i paint lots of things... obviously if you don't paint a lot of things it won't matter to you... does it make a color expansion bad, no, just makes it not relevant to you. (much like when minis come out to things i don't use, like fantasy, IG, etc... doesn't mean it's bad)

**oni**

My curiosity is certainly piqued, but those names... They're just horrible.

Here's to hoping that the range is spectacular enough that we can get past those horribly awful names.

I was thinking about how awkward hobby conversations will be using these names.

"Just give her some Rhinox Hide in the face."

Taken out of context ones imagination could certainly run in all directions with that one.

**Cameron Baum**

Brother Weasel wrote:
Cameron Baum wrote:
Wow... you mangled up the quote trimming... Amusing to see me now being quoted as saying stuff I never have.

fixed it, it's still early in California

You don't seem to realise that I don't care if the rumour is true or not. I've gone and started fielding alternatives. Lots of people have already stated that it is a supremely good idea to use paints from more than one company. I see this as a good idea. Oh, and you missed the post where I've fielded additional information. It helps to clarify things a lot.

i'm one of those who suggests using the best paint for the job, gw, p3, vellejo, hell use house paint if it works!

So what if there is an expansion of colours? I'm only using a certain number, and am not likely to be interested in the new ones. Because I'm phasing out GW colours as best I can. Foundations and Washes are still to be bought, but Only because I've yet to work out viable alternatives...

i care I don't paint just 1 army... I paint armies, i paint single, i paint lots of things... obviously if you don't paint a lot of things it won't matter to you... does it make a color expansion bad, no, just makes it not relevant to you. (much like when minis come out to things i don't use, like fantasy, IG, etc... doesn't mean it's bad)

Well, the advantage I see with Deco Art is that I can also use it on canvasses. Which is a good incentive... As for one army... well, it is one army, but has bits from other armies as well. The fun of conversions....

Heck, I'd use my oils on the models, if they'd dry fast enough. Might just try it out on a one-off model, because if it can be pulled off, the pigmentation would be astounding.

**Chemical Cutthroat**

Here's to hoping that the range is spectacular enough that we can get past those horribly awful names.

Because Vomit Brown was a purely magical name. *chuckles*

I don't care what it's called as long as it looks good on my models.

We had some guy at the store who called Tausept Ochre "Tankernocker". (Say it out loud, it's ridiculous.)

We let him go for a week before we told him what it was really called.

**Brother Weasel**

Cameron Baum wrote:

Well, the advantage I see with Deco Art is that I can also use it on canvasses. Which is a good incentive... As for one army... well, it is one army, but has bits from other armies as well. The fun of conversions....

Heck, I'd use my oils on the models, if they'd dry fast enough. Might just try it out on a one-off model, because if it can be pulled off, the pigmentation would be astounding.

i'm not a personal fan of deco art on minis, but some people have great success with em...

I do use oils on my minis here and there, i'm actually trying to expand the uses for them (shading and what not) but i'm thinking more for display minis because of the drying time

oils work great for weathering because of the dry time

**Goatboy**

For all you P3 users out there. Did they finally fix and release all the golds again.

I was starting to use the line when pot after pot of gold was 'glue'

I'm liking the line alot.

Okay so all paints contain pigments that are suspended in a medium right.

The finer the pigment the better and closer they will lay on the model. Less pooling of pigment.

Bigger pigments are harder to lay down as they want to stay on top of each other. Think pooling.

The owner of Silver Spring Hobby in Milwaukee Wisconsin is a chemist and has a masters degree in some form of chemistry that relates to paint. His wife is a professional artist. He is good friend with Ron Kruzie. I keep missing Ron as he pops in the store

Accordint to the owner. P3 paints contain the smallest pigment fragement (not the right word) and the most pigment of any color. Vallejo and Reaper are next in line (getting bigger fragments), then GW , then the other lesser brands. He didnt know about coat d arms or I kore as we do not see them in this area. Art paints for canvas are a different pigment base and size all todether. I've never used art tube paints but I think they all need to be mixed with a 'flow improver or another medium' to work on models.

Foundation type paints have more pigment and less medium. Call him ,, he will talk your damn ear off for hours on this.

When I started painting I was using P3 and he said it was one of the nicest paints to use if your an artist. If your new or not an artist he said stick with GW as they are a forgiving paint.

Dropper bottles or pots.
Dont care for either any one way. All I know is between my cats, dogs, beer and the occasionaly wife. I have spilled more GW paints and washes than I care to admit. Bottles dont spill they clog, so either way Im clearing some mess up when I want to paint.

Wonde if storing dropper bottles upside down would be better as the paint would sit in the droper part and stay wet.

just got a P3 pallet to try wet belending... so stoked.

sorry long gak post but im working and bored during lunch

**JHall**

P3 has reformulated a bunch of the metallics, including the golds. The new versions have Black labels instead of White for the Metallics. I have been using the new Rhulic Gold and it is great.

Love the P3 line, but the best paint around is the Wargames Foundry line by far. It is hard to get in the states, and pricey, but at almost 300 colors all arranged in Triads, they are amazing.

**davethepak**

I look forward to the new paints and will give them a try.

While paints themselves are very objective (chemistry, their characteristics, etc.) the way people use them and like them is not.

I use many different paints, but tend to favor the vallejo model air range, as I don't don't have to thin them to use them in my airbrush (yes, you can brush them on like any other paint).

I look forward to these new paints, and hope they look good (boltgun metal was in my subjective opinion one of the best versions of "that" color) and thin well for airbrush use.

**Mastiff**

Miguelsan wrote:

Because years ago GW had a spat with Vallejo over Ultramarine Blue and other colors they thought they could trademark and lost. That´s why paint 72022 in Vallejo´s catalog is called Ultramarine Blue and ofc GW can´t build upon exclusivity if other brands DARE using the same names.

M.

There may be other examples of names they fought over, but I had to laugh at "Ultramarine Blue". The name/colour is centuries old, so even GW would have a tough time claiming any rights on that one.

Lapis lazuli has been mined for centuries from a location still in use today in the mountain valley of Kokcha, Afghanistan. First mined 6,000 years ago, the rock was transported to Egypt and later to Europe where it was used in jewelry and paint pigment. Europeans called the expensive powdered pigment ultramarine, which literally means over the sea. Since the 19th century, ultramarine has been manufactured artificially

**Cameron Baum**

Mastiff wrote:
Miguelsan wrote:

Because years ago GW had a spat with Vallejo over Ultramarine Blue and other colors they thought they could trademark and lost. That´s why paint 72022 in Vallejo´s catalog is called Ultramarine Blue and ofc GW can´t build upon exclusivity if other brands DARE using the same names.

M.

There may be other examples of names they fought over, but I had to laugh at "Ultramarine Blue". The name/colour is centuries old, so even GW would have a tough time claiming any rights on that one.

Lapis lazuli has been mined for centuries from a location still in use today in the mountain valley of Kokcha, Afghanistan. First mined 6,000 years ago, the rock was transported to Egypt and later to Europe where it was used in jewelry and paint pigment. Europeans called the expensive powdered pigment ultramarine, which literally means over the sea. Since the 19th century, ultramarine has been manufactured artificially

Says on my pot it is Ultramarines Blue... And the colour is nothing like ultramarine. True Ultramarine is a deep, vivid, rich blue.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Brother Weasel wrote:
Cameron Baum wrote:

Well, the advantage I see with Deco Art is that I can also use it on canvasses. Which is a good incentive... As for one army... well, it is one army, but has bits from other armies as well. The fun of conversions....

Heck, I'd use my oils on the models, if they'd dry fast enough. Might just try it out on a one-off model, because if it can be pulled off, the pigmentation would be astounding.

i'm not a personal fan of deco art on minis, but some people have great success with em...

I do use oils on my minis here and there, i'm actually trying to expand the uses for them (shading and what not) but i'm thinking more for display minis because of the drying time

oils work great for weathering because of the dry time

Try colouring a copy of an Egyptian wall picture with oils... nightmare, until I used Acrylics.

I am more than aware of the dry time for oils, as it can take years to dry on the canvas. Hence, in part, the price: the time you take in painting is massive.

**blood angel**

If that (devlan mud) wasn't there it is possible there would be riots in the streets.

I hope that nuln oil is badab black.

**Brother Weasel**

Cameron Baum wrote:
Try colouring a copy of an Egyptian wall picture with oils... nightmare, until I used Acrylics.

no thanks

my canvas is minis, not canvas

I am more than aware of the dry time for oils, as it can take years to dry on the canvas. Hence, in part, the price: the time you take in painting is massive.

indeed, i generaly let them dry few days, i just like to see if some things cant be used to get the desired effects

99% is acrylic done pretty traditionaly

**Cameron Baum**

blood angel wrote:If that (devlan mud) wasn't there it is possible there would be riots in the streets.

I hope that nuln oil is badab black.

That is the general belief. It seems that Badab and Devlan are still there, but under names no other company can rip off in creating a comparable range...

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Brother Weasel wrote:
Cameron Baum wrote:
Try colouring a copy of an Egyptian wall picture with oils... nightmare, until I used Acrylics.

no thanks my canvas is minis, not canvas

I am more than aware of the dry time for oils, as it can take years to dry on the canvas. Hence, in part, the price: the time you take in painting is massive.

indeed, i generaly let them dry few days, i just like to see if some things cant be used to get the desired effects 99% is acrylic done pretty traditionaly

It wasn't canvas. It was plaster. I'd bought this wall hanging plaster copy releif, hated it all in black, so opted to colour it in. Worked nicely, too.

For a display item, you really want to go to town on it, so yeah, oils would be an idea. The pigment level alone would make the effort worthwhile. Would hate to do it for a mass production effort, though, because you'd never see it finished...

**-Loki-**

Cameron Baum wrote:
blood angel wrote:If that (devlan mud) wasn't there it is possible there would be riots in the streets.

I hope that nuln oil is badab black.

That is the general belief. It seems that Badab and Devlan are still there, but under names no other company can rip off in creating a comparable range...

They can still rip off the colour (Army Painters Warpaint range has Darktone Wash, which is exactly the same as Devlan Mud, but doesn't dry patchy on flat surfaces like Devlan Mud). All this does it lets them trademark the names.

But when no other companies were using their names anyway, it seems like a wasted effort.

**-666-**

I hope they bring back tentacle pink .

**Cameron Baum**

-Loki- wrote:
Cameron Baum wrote:
blood angel wrote:If that (devlan mud) wasn't there it is possible there would be riots in the streets.

I hope that nuln oil is badab black.

That is the general belief. It seems that Badab and Devlan are still there, but under names no other company can rip off in creating a comparable range...

They can still rip off the colour (Army Painters Warpaint range has Darktone Wash, which is exactly the same as Devlan Mud, but doesn't dry patchy on flat surfaces like Devlan Mud). All this does it lets them trademark the names.

But when no other companies were using their names anyway, it seems like a wasted effort.

They can claim then a feeble excuse, and slap the price up to £2.50 a pot.

Army Painter does washes? Huh. That's interesting to know...

**Goatboy**

JHall wrote:P3 has reformulated a bunch of the metallics, including the golds. The new versions have Black labels instead of White for the Metallics. I have been using the new Rhulic Gold and it is great.

Love the P3 line, but the best paint around is the Wargames Foundry line by far. It is hard to get in the states, and pricey, but at almost 300 colors all arranged in Triads, they are amazing.[/quote

wow high prices!

**Kroothawk**

BramGaunt wrote:The whole range is discontinued. All of them. None of the old paints will be available come 7th of April. These are not only renamded foundations and washes and paints. These are completly new paints. New recipe, if you wish. Shades will be very similar, but there might be small differences. If you feel like stocking up on your favorites, feel free to do so, but it shouldn't be necessary.

Harry wrote:These are new paints.
They can't give them the same names .... they are not the same paints.
They are different colours and different consistencies.

Folks would be going in buying a pot of .... say ... bleached bone and coming back the next day saying 'what the *$@% is this you sold me? It is nothing like bleached bone'.

This happened at the last paint change. Bestial brown was never the same again.

They are clearly trying to make a distinction between the old paints and the new.
It is a simple way of making it clear that these are not the same paints.

Slightly different colours is not going to be the biggest issue but the changes to consistency.

... and I was only just getting to grips with painting with the current stuff.

Bram is right when he said shades will be similar .... some are bang on but some are not.
I am not saying the new paint won't be great (in fact I am sure they will be) but if you are half way through a project I think you would be wise to pick up a couple of pots of paint as there is no guarantee that any individual paint will have a perfect match in the new range.

artificial orange wrote:some summaries of new paint types:

Citadel Dry Compounds are of a thicker consistency than other Citadel paints, which makes them perfect for drybrushing - a handy way to pick out the details on a model, or apply highlights swiftly and easily.

Citadel Texture paints are designed to provide a swift, effective solution to detailing your bases. They contain a mixture of both coarse and fine grit, which forms a rough, grainy surface that is ideal for drybrushing and ready for further detailing. They give strong, effective coverage over both black and white undercoats.

**Cameron Baum**

This is annoying news...

Since I'm still starting my army, I can see a repaint happening, to keep the colours consistent.

**Great White**

Huh, wonder if I should buy these new ones or reaper when I start my army?

**Adam LongWalker**

Here are some pictures of some very old Tau work using Deca coat paint to show the person that you can really do a decent job with the paint. The paint job was done almost 9 years ago and have seen some heavy action untill two years ago.

There are a lot of people who swear this is good or that is good, but it comes down to several factors.

The artist in general and his thoughts on what types of medium to use and the cost of his budget that he wants to keep.

Are you going for professional results that are needed for a Professional painting competition or just table top quality and if so how high in quality you want to have on your models that you are going to game with?

How comfortable are you with your paints. I personally use Inks instead of washes because I am so used to using inks and know a few tricks in using them. Same goes with certain paints I have used over the years as well. I do more inlay painting than dry brush. That is how I like to paint.

As far as the Quality of certain paints? How is this based on. Word of mouth? Advertising? It is hard to define how good certain paints are without hard data and that is difficult to achieve from the companies that are supplying the paints to the customer base.

I'll have to see the "new formulas" of paints GW is trying to sell and decide if any of that is useful for me.