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AegisGrimm wrote: I just don't get why they are renaming the old colors. If Blood Red is the same shade but now it's labelled Saim Hann Red, why isn't it still just friggin' BLOOD RED??

Among other things, I figure GW wants to make it just a little bit harder for Vallejo to ape the new line and name them such that you don't need a color conversion chart to figure out the GW equivalent. Just as the VGC line was a shot across GW's bow, this is a shot across Vallejo's.

I still use some GW paint, but I'm mostly a Vallejo customer now. I'll give the new line a look, but Vallejo's superior containers and lower cost means they'll probably keep most of my business even if the quality of GW's paint improves.

Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:As usual, I'm moaning about GW and as usual, I'll probably be the first to own every new colour. In this respect, I won't be alone!!

While that might be true, I'm guessing that you also won't be in a big crowd either!

gorgon wrote:

AegisGrimm wrote: I just don't get why they are renaming the old colors. If Blood Red is the same shade but now it's labelled Saim Hann Red, why isn't it still just friggin' BLOOD RED??

Among other things, I figure GW wants to make it just a little bit harder for Vallejo to ape the new line and name them such that you don't need a color conversion chart to figure out the GW equivalent. Just as the VGC line was a shot across GW's bow, this is a shot across Vallejo's.

I still use some GW paint, but I'm mostly a Vallejo customer now. I'll give the new line a look, but Vallejo's superior containers and lower cost means they'll probably keep most of my business even if the quality of GW's paint improves.

This is the best theory I have seen so far. The problem with the strategy, however, is to make the customers panic, and flock to Vallejo, where they know they can still get their old colours... Pay day next week will see me experimenting with Decoart paints, which look promising. If it is a success, I'll have to pay £1.70 for a 59ml bottle of concentrated paint. So, if it works, I'll be onto a winner.


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Alpharius wrote:

Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:As usual, I'm moaning about GW and as usual, I'll probably be the first to own every new colour. In this respect, I won't be alone!!

While that might be true, I'm guessing that you also won't be in a big crowd either!

Agreed. And if that crowd could go and put stickers on them, (purple, just to keep that colour associated with me...) I will be most happy to avoid you...

I won't be buying every last colour... I don't need them. And I doubt you'll be buying every last paint in the range, either... So stop doing a Victor Meldrew, and try to relax.

Actually, I think we need to all possibly get a bit calmer... we're getting over excited, it seems, over pots of paint...

-Loki- wrote:I noticed there's no turqoise on the list, at least that I could see. Does anyone know if the Vallejo Game Colour turqoise is a good match to Hawk Turqoise? And, on that note, if they have a good match to Shadow Grey?

Might as well completely swap to Vallejo now outside of washes. And maybe grab a 6 pack of Devlan Mud.

Alfndrate wrote:I have 1 model color dropper bottle, and it has a very similar consistency with my Game Color, but my game color bottles are the ones that are like either really drippy or really gloppy...

Of course that one pot could be an exception, but Vallejo more or less confirmed that they use different formulas for the two lines. If you were to check the Game Color FAQ on their website you will see that the 'heavy' colors use the Model Color formulation.

I sure sure hope this new rumor is false. The new paint names are annoying. Blood red and scab red are fine, but how is "wazdakka red" or "mephiston red" going to help me? I have no idea who Devlan is and why his mud is so special, but at least I know what to expect.

CuddlySquig wrote:I sure sure hope this new rumor is false. The new paint names are annoying. Blood red and scab red are fine, but how is "wazdakka red" or "mephiston red" going to help me? I have no idea who Devlan is and why his mud is so special, but at least I know what to expect.

These proposed new paint names, and new lines of layers, shades, bases, blah blah blah... seems so over the top.

Radical_Edward wrote:These proposed new paint names, and new lines of layers, shades, bases, blah blah blah... seems so over the top.

Could be worse:
Skull White, Skull Blue, Skull Red, ...

I'm interested in the textured paint.

Paint-on basing? Yes please.

Cerebrium wrote:I'm interested in the textured paint.

Paint-on basing? Yes please.

Depends how expensive it is, Tamiya do a good range of texture paints + weathering kits, too.

Hopefully without sounding like an ass...can't you just get textured paint by mixing sand with craft paint? I wouldn't want to pay premium miniature paint prices for textured paint...unless it's a game changing new kind of textured paint which, space age technology has finally created the most realistic looking fake piece of land for your space murderer to stand on that the world has ever seen. I'm bored.

Well, being worried about Devlan Mud changing is over.

I just saw a review about Army Painters new Warpaint range. Their Darktone Ink is Devlan Mud, in an 18ml dropper battle. And it doesn't dry patchy like Devlan Mud, but in a more even coat, but is the same colour.

Cameron Baum wrote:
This is the best theory I have seen so far. The problem with the strategy, however, is to make the customers panic, and flock to Vallejo, where they know they can still get their old colours... Pay day next week will see me experimenting with Decoart paints, which look promising. If it is a success, I'll have to pay £1.70 for a 59ml bottle of concentrated paint. So, if it works, I'll be onto a winner.

not sure why anyone would panic and flock to some other brand just because some new names... is it really that hard to walk into the same store you've been going to and going, hrm, this here isn't called blood red, but they sure look the same (if you can't discern the color in the store, you probably can't do it on your minis either)

[quote}
I won't be buying every last colour... I don't need them. And I doubt you'll be buying every last paint in the range, either... So stop doing a Victor Meldrew, and try to relax.

Actually, I think we need to all possibly get a bit calmer... we're getting over excited, it seems, over pots of paint...

Brother Weasel wrote:not sure why anyone would panic and flock to some other brand just because some new names... is it really that hard to walk into the same store you've been going to and going, hrm, this here isn't called blood red, but they sure look the same (if you can't discern the color in the store, you probably can't do it on your minis either)

Because when GW do this, they sometimes also change manufacturers, which can have unintended affects on the paint that some people don't like, primarily the pigment. Like, Blood Red under a new name might also be a slightly different shade of red. Not intended, but it can happen. For people that are very paricular about colours, this can be offputting.

Another reason is GW frequently drop paints. Ask people who really liked Ruby Red. Or Chestnut Ink. Or Tentacle Pink. Or Imperial Purple. In this case, it appears Hawk Turqoise is going away (though I can't be sure with the weird names), which is a pretty integral part of my Tyranid carapace highlights (the final highlight, actually). Vallejo have this colour. Other companies don't do this as drastically as GW does. Going to Vallejo Game Colour, for example, gives you a near perfect colour matched range of paints to GW, just lacking the foundations and washes but has inks which GW don't do anymore, and lacking GW's regular alterations to the range.

-Loki- wrote:

Brother Weasel wrote:not sure why anyone would panic and flock to some other brand just because some new names... is it really that hard to walk into the same store you've been going to and going, hrm, this here isn't called blood red, but they sure look the same (if you can't discern the color in the store, you probably can't do it on your minis either)

Because when GW do this, they sometimes also change manufacturers, which can have unintended affects on the paint that some people don't like, primarily the pigment. Like, Blood Red under a new name might also be a slightly different shade of red. Not intended, but it can happen. For people that are very paricular about colours, this can be offputting.

Another reason is GW frequently drop paints. Ask people who really liked Ruby Red. Or Chestnut Ink. Or Tentacle Pink. Or Imperial Purple. In this case, it appears Hawk Turqoise is going away (though I can't be sure with the weird names), which is a pretty integral part of my Tyranid carapace highlights (the final highlight, actually). Vallejo have this colour. Other companies don't do this as drastically as GW does. Going to Vallejo Game Colour, for example, gives you a near perfect colour matched range of paints to GW, just lacking the foundations and washes but has inks which GW don't do anymore, and lacking GW's regular alterations to the range.

I also worry about Hawk Turquoise, because it is a key part of the colour scheme of my Kabalite Trueborn. So I am far from happy it seems to be gone.

If they are changing the range in this manner every few years, then that is going to put people off... surely?

Cameron Baum wrote:If they are changing the range in this manner every few years, then that is going to put people off... surely?

They've been doing it since... well, they existed.

It puts people off, and they either get used to the new paints or go to another companies paints. Or use a mix, which is what I do.

-Loki- wrote:

Cameron Baum wrote:If they are changing the range in this manner every few years, then that is going to put people off... surely?

They've been doing it since... well, they existed.

It puts people off, and they either get used to the new paints or go to another companies paints. Or use a mix, which is what I do.

And I can see me doing a mix as well. I don't like all the million of options, so I'll be sticking with Foundations, Colours and Washes. Unless I can be convinced otherwise...

And paints from other sources seems a good idea, too...

-Loki- wrote:
Because when GW do this, they sometimes also change manufacturers, which can have unintended affects on the paint that some people don't like, primarily the pigment. Like, Blood Red under a new name might also be a slightly different shade of red. Not intended, but it can happen. For people that are very paricular about colours, this can be offputting.
.

Yes, and I'm hoping the Devlan Mud no longer smells! If they do this, I will be extremely happy.

-Loki- wrote:
Because when GW do this, they sometimes also change manufacturers, which can have unintended affects on the paint that some people don't like, primarily the pigment. Like, Blood Red under a new name might also be a slightly different shade of red. Not intended, but it can happen. For people that are very paricular about colours, this can be offputting.

Another reason is GW frequently drop paints. Ask people who really liked Ruby Red. Or Chestnut Ink. Or Tentacle Pink. Or Imperial Purple. In this case, it appears Hawk Turqoise is going away (though I can't be sure with the weird names), which is a pretty integral part of my Tyranid carapace highlights (the final highlight, actually). Vallejo have this colour. Other companies don't do this as drastically as GW does. Going to Vallejo Game Colour, for example, gives you a near perfect colour matched range of paints to GW, just lacking the foundations and washes but has inks which GW don't do anymore, and lacking GW's regular alterations to the range.

Or you could check out Coat D'Arms, which was the GW paint supplier before the change from the round style flip tops. They have the equivalents of all the GW ranges, but not the same thickness and coverage for some (I'm looking at the reds), but they have the chestnut ink equivalent (which is, I have and use it), and their blues are pretty good.

I still use primarily GW, with a smattering of P3, Vallejo (but I really, really dislike the droppers). I'll likely check out the new range for some of the new colors, and just get what little paint I might need (as he looks at his two drawers full of paints).

Cameron Baum wrote:

-Loki- wrote:

Brother Weasel wrote:not sure why anyone would panic and flock to some other brand just because some new names... is it really that hard to walk into the same store you've been going to and going, hrm, this here isn't called blood red, but they sure look the same (if you can't discern the color in the store, you probably can't do it on your minis either)

Because when GW do this, they sometimes also change manufacturers, which can have unintended affects on the paint that some people don't like, primarily the pigment. Like, Blood Red under a new name might also be a slightly different shade of red. Not intended, but it can happen. For people that are very paricular about colours, this can be offputting.

Another reason is GW frequently drop paints. Ask people who really liked Ruby Red. Or Chestnut Ink. Or Tentacle Pink. Or Imperial Purple. In this case, it appears Hawk Turqoise is going away (though I can't be sure with the weird names), which is a pretty integral part of my Tyranid carapace highlights (the final highlight, actually). Vallejo have this colour. Other companies don't do this as drastically as GW does. Going to Vallejo Game Colour, for example, gives you a near perfect colour matched range of paints to GW, just lacking the foundations and washes but has inks which GW don't do anymore, and lacking GW's regular alterations to the range.

I also worry about Hawk Turquoise, because it is a key part of the colour scheme of my Kabalite Trueborn. So I am far from happy it seems to be gone.

If they are changing the range in this manner every few years, then that is going to put people off... surely?

as usual, with the internet... people are going to jump to a new brand, before knowing the actual truth? loads of people are going to go to vellejo because there might me some noticeable difference to most people? I paint, a lot... I might notice a real difference if there is one... but first i think i'll wait to see, for all i know they could be the best or worse paints ever...

as for frequently changing colors... i think our definition of frequently differs

Brother Weasel wrote:as usual, with the internet... people are going to jump to a new brand, before knowing the actual truth? loads of people are going to go to vellejo because there might me some noticeable difference to most people? I paint, a lot... I might notice a real difference if there is one... but first i think i'll wait to see, for all i know they could be the best or worse paints ever...

as for frequently changing colors... i think our definition of frequently differs

Frequenty as in every time they decide to change their range. Some old paints disappear, some new paints come in.

Also, I'm already using P3 and Vallejo. I like Bloody Red a lot more than Blood Red. It has a slightly different coverage that makes it easier to layer. And Jack Bone is a lot nicer for bone colours than Bleached Bone.

Like I said, use a mix of different companies paints. you're doing yourself a disservice if you don't.

-Loki- wrote:

Brother Weasel wrote:as usual, with the internet... people are going to jump to a new brand, before knowing the actual truth? loads of people are going to go to vellejo because there might me some noticeable difference to most people? I paint, a lot... I might notice a real difference if there is one... but first i think i'll wait to see, for all i know they could be the best or worse paints ever...

as for frequently changing colors... i think our definition of frequently differs

Frequenty as in every time they decide to change their range. Some old paints disappear, some new paints come in.

Also, I'm already using P3 and Vallejo. I like Bloody Red a lot more than Blood Red. It has a slightly different coverage that makes it easier to layer. And Jack Bone is a lot nicer for bone colours than Bleached Bone.

Like I said, use a mix of different companies paints. you're doing yourself a disservice if you don't.

I use whatever is best for the job and personal preference is what it is

and frequently to me would mean more then the 4 or so times in the last 20 years i've been painting frequently would be like yearly.. hence our use of frequent is not the same.

Cameron Baum wrote:

This is the best theory I have seen so far. The problem with the strategy, however, is to make the customers panic, and flock to Vallejo, where they know they can still get their old colours... Pay day next week will see me experimenting with Decoart paints, which look promising. If it is a success, I'll have to pay £1.70 for a 59ml bottle of concentrated paint. So, if it works, I'll be onto a winner.

I used deco art paints from time to time on my armies. Yes it works and it works pretty well. My suggestion is to make test patterns of your paints that you are going to switch to another brand.

I find that you can get certain miss matches if you just go what people tell you to switch Brand A with Brand B.

@Cameron Braun - welcome to the hobby! I agree with other posters, the changes may be off-setting for a bit, but in 6-9 months, you'll love it.

@Do_I_Not_Like_That - Surely, you'll be second to get them all. I'll be in line before you ;-) And I have too many paints already.

And before I get any other comments - I have a rack full of coat d'arms, I have most of Vallejo's game color, and I have lots of the P3's (though not all yet). Though also as a FYI, I still have boxes of the old GW paints (as in 6s) and a paint rack full of the older (but still great and ready to go) flip tops.

@everyone - couple comments:

GW do occasionally change colors - but the frequency they do so is every - what? 6-8 years? Yes, I think they make a few mistakes....but they tend to correct them eventually - though I still like the old bleached bone over the new one.. (just me, i Guess)

Paint makes up about 10-12% of GW's overall business (different percentages can be attained by paint, paint+brushes+primers, etc.) This was true when I was there (and was mentioned by a retailer earlier in this same thread). They have a reason for every change - including weird name changes - though we may not know it or agree with the change.

Though the other paint lines are basically old colors/recreations/ or even the exact old paint, one point I'd like to make - GW left those paints/manufacturers behind. They consider them inferior (whether you agree or not). The only influence any of that might have on GW is the number of paints they put out.....and they'll use new paint guides in WD and others to corner the market on the newer gamers...who will buy it in droves and paint better than me ;-p. I doubt this is at all a shot across anyone's bow, or even in response to some ex-GW guys new paint range. More like something that had to happen because of the inferior supply they seemed to be getting from China....Though would be interested to find out if they are being supplied from someone here in Michigan.

But I don't know why people are upset....use whatever paints you like, from wherever. If you are painting a GW model, they still are doing ok. I seem to remember Mike McVey used other paint ranges back in the day at GW (and he helped formulate one of the changes to the paint range himself!). In fact in some really old articles, they didn't even remove them all from the photos of his painting area (though I don't think you could read any names/brands - I remember a Tamiya bottle or 2 in there some where)

@Loki

Vallejo Game Colour has Heavy Pigment paints which are the same as foundations. Heavy red actually covers better than Mechrite Red.

I haven't tried their inks yet though.

I've tried their black ink, and it was pretty good. Like the old armour wash, but a lot more pigment, so it needs to be thinned.

Aerethran wrote:Vallejo Game Colour has Heavy Pigment paints which are the same as foundations.

Which use the exact same formulation as their Model Color line.

So, who is volunteering to update the paint comparison chart on Dakka when the new WD comes out?

Brother Weasel wrote:

Cameron Baum wrote:

-Loki- wrote:

Brother Weasel wrote:not sure why anyone would panic and flock to some other brand just because some new names... is it really that hard to walk into the same store you've been going to and going, hrm, this here isn't called blood red, but they sure look the same (if you can't discern the color in the store, you probably can't do it on your minis either)

Because when GW do this, they sometimes also change manufacturers, which can have unintended affects on the paint that some people don't like, primarily the pigment. Like, Blood Red under a new name might also be a slightly different shade of red. Not intended, but it can happen. For people that are very paricular about colours, this can be offputting.

Another reason is GW frequently drop paints. Ask people who really liked Ruby Red. Or Chestnut Ink. Or Tentacle Pink. Or Imperial Purple. In this case, it appears Hawk Turqoise is going away (though I can't be sure with the weird names), which is a pretty integral part of my Tyranid carapace highlights (the final highlight, actually). Vallejo have this colour. Other companies don't do this as drastically as GW does. Going to Vallejo Game Colour, for example, gives you a near perfect colour matched range of paints to GW, just lacking the foundations and washes but has inks which GW don't do anymore, and lacking GW's regular alterations to the range.

I also worry about Hawk Turquoise, because it is a key part of the colour scheme of my Kabalite Trueborn. So I am far from happy it seems to be gone.

If they are changing the range in this manner every few years, then that is going to put people off... surely?

as usual, with the internet... people are going to jump to a new brand, before knowing the actual truth? loads of people are going to go to vellejo because there might me some noticeable difference to most people? I paint, a lot... I might notice a real difference if there is one... but first i think i'll wait to see, for all i know they could be the best or worse paints ever...

as for frequently changing colors... i think our definition of frequently differs

Am I jumping to new brands before knowing the actual truth? Yes. I'm wanting a stable range of paints, not a "guest of the week approach." My DE are not the standard black with coloured edging, they field more colours than that.

I am happy for this rumour, because it has pushed me to experiment with different brands, and thus see what else is out there. Which means that I'll no doubt get used to - and use extensively paints from ranges that are stable, and not ever shifting.

This rumour has taught me that there are plenty of viable alternatives, and that they are, in fact, at my doorstep.


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Adam LongWalker wrote:Cameron Baum wrote:

This is the best theory I have seen so far. The problem with the strategy, however, is to make the customers panic, and flock to Vallejo, where they know they can still get their old colours... Pay day next week will see me experimenting with Decoart paints, which look promising. If it is a success, I'll have to pay £1.70 for a 59ml bottle of concentrated paint. So, if it works, I'll be onto a winner.

I used deco art paints from time to time on my armies. Yes it works and it works pretty well. My suggestion is to make test patterns of your paints that you are going to switch to another brand.

I find that you can get certain miss matches if you just go what people tell you to switch Brand A with Brand B.

Awesome! Thanks for the news. What I'll do is finish off the ones that are part painted, and hold off doing new ones. Then I can go and start the new units with the new paints, to reduce/prevent mismatching. Because I'm so new in, not that much has been painted, so I can always look at re-painting them if needs be.

And I can tell my friend this news, which will be a good thing. He's going to freak when he sees all the millions of paints, and the dozens of different categories. Because he'd have to tell the pupils he is helping to model paint about them.

Again, thanks for the info!