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 Latro_ wrote:

 Lithlandis Stormcrow wrote:

Spoiler:

endlesswaltz123 wrote:

BlueGrassGamer wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Still missing the Sergeant's wargear [spoiler]since we saw im with a power sword and bolt pistol..

Depends on whether or not Game Workshop is keeping with the traditions and markings they they've laid down in Insignium Astartes and their own Studio armies. In the debut video for the Primaris Space Marines, there's a shot or two of what looks to be a squad or two of Space Marines. The squad looks like it's made up of four Primaris Marines and one Primaris Marine that has a red helmet, all armed with bolters. Going by Insignium Astartes and GW's current Studio armies, the red helmeted Primaris Marine should be the Sergeant. The Primaris Marine that has the white-red-white livery running down his helmet and is armed with the bolt pistol and power sword might be a character of some kind (maybe akain to the Space Marine Commander).

White line down the middle of a red helmet has traditionally been used to define a veteran sergeant over a normal sergeant.

Veteran of what, though? If these guys are brand spanking new... Did he go through more combat drills than the other ones?

one possible explanation is that the timeline was moved on a number of years...

That has to be the case, especially since Cawl said in the one of the Gathering Storm books that he had abandoned the project (now revealed to be the Primaris Marines) sometime during the Scouring.
So some time would had to have passed for Cawl to construct the machines required to create the Primaris Marines and their equipment.

Oh, also that giant bloody warp tear across the Galaxy would indicate a decent passing of time, too. Lol.

Quite like the new marines simply because they're actually the size that marines are depicted in the background.

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:

 Latro_ wrote:

 Lithlandis Stormcrow wrote:

Spoiler:

endlesswaltz123 wrote:

BlueGrassGamer wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Still missing the Sergeant's wargear [spoiler]since we saw im with a power sword and bolt pistol..

Depends on whether or not Game Workshop is keeping with the traditions and markings they they've laid down in Insignium Astartes and their own Studio armies. In the debut video for the Primaris Space Marines, there's a shot or two of what looks to be a squad or two of Space Marines. The squad looks like it's made up of four Primaris Marines and one Primaris Marine that has a red helmet, all armed with bolters. Going by Insignium Astartes and GW's current Studio armies, the red helmeted Primaris Marine should be the Sergeant. The Primaris Marine that has the white-red-white livery running down his helmet and is armed with the bolt pistol and power sword might be a character of some kind (maybe akain to the Space Marine Commander).

White line down the middle of a red helmet has traditionally been used to define a veteran sergeant over a normal sergeant.

Veteran of what, though? If these guys are brand spanking new... Did he go through more combat drills than the other ones?

one possible explanation is that the timeline was moved on a number of years...

That has to be the case, especially since Cawl said in the one of the Gathering Storm books that he had abandoned the project (now revealed to be the Primaris Marines) sometime during the Scouring.
So some time would had to have passed for Cawl to construct the machines required to create the Primaris Marines and their equipment.

Oh, also that giant bloody warp tear across the Galaxy would indicate a decent passing of time, too. Lol.

Or GW pushed other events back in time so it's now 999 but they got started in 900.

Or GW ignores numbers in logistics and claim they were created within months. Numbers been never GW's strong point.

And warp tear btw could appear without much time. It's basically warp breaking into real world. It's not like it has to move linearly from eye of terror at sublight speed or something. It can manifest itself in everywhere simultaneously.

It would be in GW's best interest to just stop mentioning the year in 8th edition.

That or don't worry about going in to 41k

To be honest the distances between the star systems in 40k (from our understanding of the galaxy) is so vast and warp travel so odd that time in 40k is probably meaningless anyhoo XD

T'au are up to the fifth tier of expansion so there probably has been a timeskip.

 Latro_ wrote:
To be honest the distances between the star systems in 40k (from our understanding of the galaxy) is so vast and warp travel so odd that time in 40k is probably meaningless anyhoo XD

It's totally possible (as I am to believe) that due to the warp RG could be on a ship, travel through he warp and meet his past self back before the heresy started. It's just all a bit bonkers.

My thoughts for the new marines is that it helps GW stop writing themselves into a corner with the whole "oh, we just found this STC under the couch" thing. New marines created now, with a tech priest dominus and Primarch working together, means that we can expect to see genuinely new technology from the Imperium - they no longer have to pretend units always existed, and have an excuse to make new models. I suspect that's the main driver behind this change - they could have easily just said these new marines were bigger to more accurately represent the background if they'd wanted to, but instead have done this. As such, I'm not expecting the old marines to be phased out for a good long while (if ever), but I'm also not expecting them to get many more releases because, well, what can they really still make for them? Beyond updating old sculpts, and marines are probably the army which least needs that, they've already got a fully fledged roster with decades of backstory. Bear in mind that the old marines will always be around with the way they've done this, both due to the Heresy and from the fact that chaos doesn't have access to this new technology; I really do feel this is just a way that they can keep selling new Imperium marine models, as well as having the creative freedom with Chaos they've always had (this tank was made from 100% tech heresy, etc). Now, whether you think it's a good thing that the Imperium is no longer a crumbling empire, but one which can rebuild, is another issue entirely.

As for the Tau (sorry, "T'au") article, people are freaking out over nothing. The vast majority of their units are completely fine, it's just a choice few which are too good. When, for example, did you last see Vespids, Hammerheads, Razorsharks, Pathfinders, Ethereals, etc? Probably not since at least 6e I'd imagine, if even then. We have no idea how expensive these units they're talking about will be - Stormsurge's power mostly comes from being slightly undercosted; if they raise the points by 100 in the current rules, it probably wouldn't see any play. Likewise, the majority of the Riptide's current power comes from the reactor rules, combined with broken MC rules where they could take at most 1 wound from any non-D shot. On the grounds that their main strength was durability which is going to be dramatically different in 8e due to the to wound chart, armour modifiers and multiple damage per shot, there's really no telling how good they'll be. For instance, say that powerfists are now AP-3, S8, D6 damage - that alone would mean that if a unit of terminators got the charge on a T6 2+/5++ Riptide (if it also doesn't change), they will smash it into fine dust - you're looking at an average of more than 1 wound per attack. Bear in mind that Tau only really have 2 good phases - movement and shooting; they miss the psychic phase due to having no psykers, they don't want to charge and they really don't want to be in combat. Eldar have always been far worse in that regard.

The real question will come down to how decisive combat is in 8e, and we won't know that for sure until we have all the related rules: can we assault from reserves, can you assault off deep strike, can you do first turn charges, are there extra bonuses for charging, how impactful is hitting on a 3+ instead of usually a 4+ for most units, etc. There's a lot which might make combat either very good, or useless - for example, if you can charge from a deep strike, and deep strike itself becomes more reliable, then terminators are suddenly going to be borderline broken. On the other hand, if you strike last charging into terrain, combat might be dead. We simply don't have enough information to judge.

GW kills the hype for the new edition with their decision to slowly but surely invalidate people's entire range of marines. GW don't have shelf space for both old and new and when vehicles change too it will be over for the old stuff..

GW keeps making up excuses incl. fluff excuses to invalidate stuff. Unfortunately they don't know how to grow the player base or make existing players buy mpre stuff so they are killing rain forests to invalidate thousands of pages published and printed every two years and now they want to incalidate the SM range...
The new ones magically have better stats too..

Nothing innovative about GW any more...

tneva82 wrote:

Vorian wrote:
[Your common sense will be lost in this thread, like tears in rain.

Anybody claiming stormsurge might have 2 wounds and 6+ save doesn't really have common sense.

You know what common sense can be used to? Accurately extrapolate rules and their impact from imperfect information. People have been doing that for years. As it is you could already play fairly accurate game of 8th ed if you wanted to put effort to.

Thanks for proving my point.

endlesswaltz123 wrote:

 Latro_ wrote:
To be honest the distances between the star systems in 40k (from our understanding of the galaxy) is so vast and warp travel so odd that time in 40k is probably meaningless anyhoo XD

It's totally possible (as I am to believe) that due to the warp RG could be on a ship, travel through he warp and meet his past self back before the heresy started. It's just all a bit bonkers.

I think from WD to travel 1 light year in 40k is 2-6 minutes via warp travel so lets say 3.5
milkyway is 100,000 light years in diameter
So to just travel half way should take 121 days

While you are in the warp time in realspace churns on slower i think the old WD said 1LY = about an hour so it'd seem like 125,000 days (or 342 years) has past,,,

ye mind starts to get nose bleeds, the more i think about the science of 40k the more my suspension of disbelief fades away and i just pretend to be an ork again waahahaaaaagghh

Vorian wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

Vorian wrote:
[Your common sense will be lost in this thread, like tears in rain.

Anybody claiming stormsurge might have 2 wounds and 6+ save doesn't really have common sense.

You know what common sense can be used to? Accurately extrapolate rules and their impact from imperfect information. People have been doing that for years. As it is you could already play fairly accurate game of 8th ed if you wanted to put effort to.

Thanks for proving my point.

It would be an awfully boring game, though; Primaris Marine Intercessors vs Thousand Sons. Without knowing what each squad's special ability does, and no access to any of the Stratagems. Thousand Sons would be a bit handicapped by only having one psychic power.

You want to know how I plan on dealing with a stormsurge?

Drop a squad of devastator marines out of a drop pod next to it before it can shoot. Drop 4x multimeltas + the Sergeant's Combimelta into it after disembarking, Hopefully within 12" of the thing.

Get one hit with the combimelta on 3+ (hopefully) at -4 save. Even with a 2+ save (I suspect it'll have a 3+ save and high toughness, the Riptide will likely have a 2+ and lower toughness to compensate) and in cover it's got a 5+ or 6+ save at that point. D6 wounds. Then average 2 more hits on 4+ with multimeltas, once again at 5+ or 6+ save, hopefully another D6 to 2D6 wounds, with the likely second D6 rolled with each, take the higher roll of the two. If that doesn't all but kill or outright cripple the stormsurge most of the time, I'll be genuinely surprised. That's just one squad shooting it. Put a few other long range shots into it an it'l likely be dead or degraded so much as to be a shadow of it's unwounded effectiveness.

I also seriously doubt it'll have 20+ wounds. Maybe 15 to 18 at most., with 18 being my guess. A wraithknight will likely be sporting 20 or so, and the Imperial Knight will be 21 or 22 max I'm willing to bet.

Most armies will be able to focus down a single big model, and I'm willing to bet Super Heavies will be points sinks in matched play. If a single Multimelta upgrade in a Tactical Squad is a TWENTY-SEVEN points, I can only imagine what the Super Heavies are going to cost to field.

In summary, don't panic guys. The sky isn't falling.

Just offering my thoughts once again. Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

Honestly, I'd prefer it if these "NuMarines" were simply existing and experienced adult Space Marines that have had further genetic manipulation and enhancements and upgraded gene-seed, rather than newly recruited Marines implanted at a young age with the upgraded geneseed. It would also explain why some "NuMarines" can be considered Veterans - because they truly are Veterans, having served for years as a regular Marine in their respective Chapters before being sent to Mars for upgrades. Chapters might be more willing to accept existing members of their Chapter who've been sent to Mars for upgrades than complete outsiders foisted upon them without their consent.

Is that even possible? Can you take an existing adult Marine and make further alterations to his gene-seed and body?

 Red__Thirst wrote:
You want to know how I plan on dealing with a stormsurge?

I am currently saving up for a Warhound.

 Red__Thirst wrote:
You want to know how I plan on dealing with a stormsurge?

Drop a squad of devastator marines out of a drop pod next to it before it can shoot. Drop 4x multimeltas + the Sergeant's Combimelta into it after disembarking, Hopefully within 12" of the thing.

Get one hit with the combimelta on 3+ (hopefully) at -4 save. Even with a 2+ save (I suspect tit'll have a 3+ save and high toughness, the Riptide will likely have a 2+ and lower toughness to compensate) and in cover it's got a 5+ or 6+ save at that point. D6 wounds. Then average 2 more hits on 4+ with multimeltas, once again at 5+ or 6+ save, hopefully another D6 to 2D6 wounds, with the likely second D6 rolled with each, take the higher roll of the two. If that doesn't all but kill or outright cripple the stormsurge most of the time, I'll be genuinely surprised. That's just one squad shooting it. Put a few other long range shots into it an it'l likely be dead or degraded so much as to be a shadow of it's unwounded effectiveness.

I also seriously doubt it'll have 20+ wounds. Maybe 15 to 18 at most., with 18 being my guess. A wraithknight will likely be sporting 20 or so, and the Imperial Knight will be 21 or 22 max I'm willing to bet.

Most armies will be able to focus down a single big model, and I'm willing to bet Super Heavies will be points sinks in matched play. If a single Multimelta upgrade in a Tactical Squad is a TWENTY-SEVEN points, I can only imagine what the Super Heavies are going to cost to field.

In summary, don't panic guys. The sky isn't falling.

Just offering my thoughts once again. Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

How would you do that with orks?

 Draccan wrote:

GW kills the hype for the new edition with their decision to slowly but surely invalidate people's entire range of marines. GW don't have shelf space for both old and new and when vehicles change too it will be over for the old stuff..

GW keeps making up excuses incl. fluff excuses to invalidate stuff. Unfortunately they don't know how to grow the player base or make existing players buy mpre stuff so they are killing rain forests to invalidate thousands of pages published and printed every two years and now they want to incalidate the SM range...
The new ones magically have better stats too..

Nothing innovative about GW any more...

The strange thing is, GW said that they are NOT invalidating regular Space Marines, neither fluff wise nor rules wise. Not slowly nor fast. In fact the rules preview showed that they have different tactical uses than regular Marines. That is why GW posted their Pri-Marine FAQ.

 Seneca wrote:

 Draccan wrote:

GW kills the hype for the new edition with their decision to slowly but surely invalidate people's entire range of marines. GW don't have shelf space for both old and new and when vehicles change too it will be over for the old stuff..

GW keeps making up excuses incl. fluff excuses to invalidate stuff. Unfortunately they don't know how to grow the player base or make existing players buy mpre stuff so they are killing rain forests to invalidate thousands of pages published and printed every two years and now they want to incalidate the SM range...
The new ones magically have better stats too..

Nothing innovative about GW any more...

The strange thing is, GW said that they are NOT invalidating regular Space Marines, neither fluff wise nor rules wise. Not slowly nor fast. In fact the rules preview showed that they have different tactical uses than regular Marines. That is why GW posted their Pri-Marine FAQ.

Nothing will stop people getting angry over stuff they've completely made up from nothing and have no evidence for.

Vorian wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

Vorian wrote:
[Your common sense will be lost in this thread, like tears in rain.

Anybody claiming stormsurge might have 2 wounds and 6+ save doesn't really have common sense.

You know what common sense can be used to? Accurately extrapolate rules and their impact from imperfect information. People have been doing that for years. As it is you could already play fairly accurate game of 8th ed if you wanted to put effort to.

Thanks for proving my point.

Better to have your "lack of common sense" than pretend everything is all fine and rosy and nothing to worry about when evidence points there being something to worry about.

Sure one can be like ostrich but you know what? They don't get any protection from that. They just get eaten.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Seneca wrote:
The strange thing is, GW said that they are NOT invalidating regular Space Marines, neither fluff wise nor rules wise. Not slowly nor fast. In fact the rules preview showed that they have different tactical uses than regular Marines. That is why GW posted their Pri-Marine FAQ.

You really think they would say "oh btw we will stop all sales and support of old marines in 5 years"?-)

Really? You think they would say anything that even MIGHT cost them sales?

 jhnbrg wrote:

 Red__Thirst wrote:
You want to know how I plan on dealing with a stormsurge?

Drop a squad of devastator marines out of a drop pod next to it before it can shoot. Drop 4x multimeltas + the Sergeant's Combimelta into it after disembarking, Hopefully within 12" of the thing.

Get one hit with the combimelta on 3+ (hopefully) at -4 save. Even with a 2+ save (I suspect tit'll have a 3+ save and high toughness, the Riptide will likely have a 2+ and lower toughness to compensate) and in cover it's got a 5+ or 6+ save at that point. D6 wounds. Then average 2 more hits on 4+ with multimeltas, once again at 5+ or 6+ save, hopefully another D6 to 2D6 wounds, with the likely second D6 rolled with each, take the higher roll of the two. If that doesn't all but kill or outright cripple the stormsurge most of the time, I'll be genuinely surprised. That's just one squad shooting it. Put a few other long range shots into it an it'l likely be dead or degraded so much as to be a shadow of it's unwounded effectiveness.

I also seriously doubt it'll have 20+ wounds. Maybe 15 to 18 at most., with 18 being my guess. A wraithknight will likely be sporting 20 or so, and the Imperial Knight will be 21 or 22 max I'm willing to bet.

Most armies will be able to focus down a single big model, and I'm willing to bet Super Heavies will be points sinks in matched play. If a single Multimelta upgrade in a Tactical Squad is a TWENTY-SEVEN points, I can only imagine what the Super Heavies are going to cost to field.

In summary, don't panic guys. The sky isn't falling.

Just offering my thoughts once again. Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

How would you do that with orks?

Crush it with a morkanaught or powerklaws...

 jhnbrg wrote:


How would you do that with orks?

Dakkajet or two? Push a Gork/Morkanaught at it, with some MANZ inside? Or face hug it with a Stompa? Flashgitz? Ram it with a red paint job battlewagon, with Flashgitz riding in it?

All the above?

It's a brave new world. Let's see what comes shall we?

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

This thread is honestly brilliant, the official Chicken Licken thread

We had this when AoS dropped, loads of people stomping feet and throwing teddies, threatening to bin minis. I think I messaged 3 people that were loudly proclaiming that they were giving away all their stuff ( I offered to pay for postage) and it was all over dramatic attention seeking.

Killing hype and killing rain forests

My other favorite comment is that someone could extrapolate the rest of the rules and stats and play 8th ed now


I've not see any comment really on the 'some chapters view the Primaris with suspicion' comment. It certainly paints a future with both types of marine, and they have gone to great lengths to explain that both will offer different things to a general. There was a few Primarchs that didn't like Robute's ideas 10k years ago, is that list kicking about still somewhere? Would be interesting, especially as it's a strong possibility that we have another Primarch coming back..

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Honestly, I'd prefer it if these "NuMarines" were simply existing and experienced adult Space Marines that have had further genetic manipulation and enhancements and upgraded gene-seed, rather than newly recruited Marines implanted at a young age with the upgraded geneseed. It would also explain why some "NuMarines" can be considered Veterans - because they truly are Veterans, having served for years as a regular Marine in their respective Chapters before being sent to Mars for upgrades. Chapters might be more willing to accept existing members of their Chapter who've been sent to Mars for upgrades than complete outsiders foisted upon them without their consent.

Is that even possible? Can you take an existing adult Marine and make further alterations to his gene-seed and body?

That would have made MUCH more sense. It explains why they are widely available, why all chapters accepted them (even the most secretive), why they can have veterans, why they would be able to be created so quickly and in such quantities, why they already have dreadnoughts etc.

tneva82 wrote:

Vorian wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

Vorian wrote:
[Your common sense will be lost in this thread, like tears in rain.

Anybody claiming stormsurge might have 2 wounds and 6+ save doesn't really have common sense.

You know what common sense can be used to? Accurately extrapolate rules and their impact from imperfect information. People have been doing that for years. As it is you could already play fairly accurate game of 8th ed if you wanted to put effort to.

Thanks for proving my point.

Better to have your "lack of common sense" than pretend everything is all fine and rosy and nothing to worry about when evidence points there being something to worry about.

Sure one can be like ostrich but you know what? They don't get any protection from that. They just get eaten.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Seneca wrote:
The strange thing is, GW said that they are NOT invalidating regular Space Marines, neither fluff wise nor rules wise. Not slowly nor fast. In fact the rules preview showed that they have different tactical uses than regular Marines. That is why GW posted their Pri-Marine FAQ.

You really think they would say "oh btw we will stop all sales and support of old marines in 5 years"?-)

Really? You think they would say anything that even MIGHT cost them sales?

You have no idea of the power level. You're being ridiculous.

And what would they say if they genuinely had no intention of retiring the old marines? Exactly what they are saying.

You can whip up whatever paranoid rubbish you want, but it's totally made up with nothing actually pointing to it.

Thebiggesthat wrote:
My other favorite comment is that someone could extrapolate the rest of the rules and stats and play 8th ed now

Not complete obviously but yes you can extrapolarite enough that you can have fairly good idea of what it is. Infact I would be willing to bet tournament hardcores are allready doing that as that way they get headstart over those who naively believe you need to know everything before you can extrapolate from it.

Newsflash: People have been doing it for years.

It's not like this is complete overhaul where autocannons are suddenly S1 pou-pou guns. Indeed I bet there won't be major changes with S values and AP values can be already figured out.

But sure keep telling you need to know 100% to be able to figure out how game works. You just are at disadvantage to those who are willing to think about things in advance.

Tournament hardcores

I'll be playing power levels most likely, so I'm under no disadvantage.

You clearly enjoy being unhappy, so I'll let you carry on. As I've said, those that want to put their money where their mouth is, I've got plenty of money for postage, and will donate to charity for each army someone wants to throw away. Will even let that person choose their charity.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
So hyped for those Death Guard

2 sets incoming!

zamerion wrote:

Excellent!

Thebiggesthat wrote:
Tournament hardcores

I'll be playing power levels most likely, so I'm under no disadvantage.

You clearly enjoy being unhappy, so I'll let you carry on. As I've said, those that want to put their money where their mouth is, I've got plenty of money for postage, and will donate to charity for each army someone wants to throw away. Will even let that person choose their charity.

If you bothered to read what I say I have praised GW for their good things. But unlike some I'm not going to just pretend everything is fine and dandy. That's not usefull. Taking realistic view and accepting good and bad is much better.

And btw power levels don't protect you from being worse player. Those who study already how to play 8th ed efficiently are obviously more at advantage than those who aren't. Actually they will have even bigger advantage with power levels so...

zamerion wrote:

OH
MY
GOD

Papa be blessed

Also, thin those paints, Jesus.