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Emperor almighty.. people really need to relax. First people burned their Fantasy armies when Age of Sigmar was announced, and now they will sell their Marine armies because a new type of Marine was made?

I don't mind the fluff. They have even mentioned that some Chapters are actually sceptical and not sure what to think about these new Marines. I think this opens up for some nice progression within the Chapters themselves. Not to mention that the models themselves might just be the coolest minis that GW has ever produced, just from these first few glimpses I am pretty much sold.

I might be a simple man; I see a model I like, that is fun to play with, and I'm a happy camper. Stop treating plastic figures like the end of the world, and just relax.

 Inevitable_Faith wrote:
I'm really worried about my Wyches this edition. I was really hoping they'd have a role to play in a DE army this time around. I know they weren't favoured in 7th but I still ran them and to be honest I had pretty decent success with them but I mostly ran them as a tarpit unit. That 4++ in CC really locked down elite opponents with few attacks. Now that everyone can choose to exit combat I started to fear for their viability as they can't even tarpit anymore but after seeing the Tau rules for getting to shoot after fleeing I'm really wondering how they'll be able to compete.

Fingers crossed that GW and the playtesters have found fun and unique ways to make Wyches a viable choice but I'll admit this is the first time I've been worried about the balance of 8th (not 8th as a whole, just 8th in regards to my favourite unit), just gotta be patient and see what it's like when it launches now I suppose.

Many things could have happened but unfortunately wyches are likely to be troops level light assault infantry (like wracks except they were elites for... reasons). Massed haywire could make a return but without rending (which its hard to see them getting) they are going to bounce on anything vaguely tough. As you say tarpitting is going to be less worthwhile and they will still probably die if anyone with a gun notices they exist.

Sort of hopeful for DE but there are so many of these light assault(ish) units that are unlikely to be good. Wyches, bloodbrides (if a thing), wracks, hellions, beastmasters, mandrakes (they might not be thought of this way any more), the archons court.

 alleus wrote:
Emperor almighty.. people really need to relax. First people burned their Fantasy armies when Age of Sigmar was announced, and now they will sell their Marine armies because a new type of Marine was made?

I don't mind the fluff. They have even mentioned that some Chapters are actually sceptical and not sure what to think about these new Marines. I think this opens up for some nice progression within the Chapters themselves. Not to mention that the models themselves might just be the coolest minis that GW has ever produced, just from these first few glimpses I am pretty much sold.

I might be a simple man; I see a model I like, that is fun to play with, and I'm a happy camper. Stop treating plastic figures like the end of the world, and just relax.

Oh how I wish we were all so enlightened as this simple, simple man.

 Gamgee wrote:

SnotlingPimpWagon wrote:
Whatever dude, you're being a bit of a drama queen, IMHO
Besides this doesn't make sense, because numarines army is not structured that way, they are not made up from vets and they don't have all that access to Xenos weapons. And in no way they're shown as the ones, seeking to be as distinct as possible from each other:
"They're basic troops are the elites of other chapters. They were allowed to have more advanced and even use new technology or captured xenos tech. Now all of that unique aspect is gone. Probably going to even be replaced by numarines eventually with even more advanced "

*facepalm* The chapters give their best men to the deathwatch. What happens when all the chapters are nu-marines? They give nu-marines. Since you need to support the new larger space marines that means developing or giving existing gear to the DW that fits the nu-marines and not the old. Eventually over the course of years nu-marines will replace every marine model everywhere in real life. hastings himself the one and only one of the most accurate rumor people even confirmed the old marines will not be getting any new releases or they would be extremely rare. It's over. A slow putting down the dog over. Stop being in denial and buy nu-marines or get out of the way.

Hi there I'm custodes and I crap all over your rant about "astartes" being your elite marines. As my emporer genesede DNA makes me literally better then You could ever hope to be. Furthermore greyknights > deathwatch. Grey knights are the best of the best AND psychic.

LightKing wrote:
So are the Primaris marines as powerful as the Primarchs?

Either it is a genuine question which means you have no idea what a Primarch is or it is a troll attempt..

Custodes are around since the beginning of the fluff and have always been set as a standard above Space Marines to match their role as Praetorian Guard. They weren't shoehorned in because of "reasons".

Inb4 Primaris Grey Knights because they still need to be Extra special.

Yeah but Custodes used to be so good they sat around defending the Emperor. They weren't out there in mass numbers directly replacing space marines. As a matter of fact there were so few they were basically unique individuals not a real army.

They are also distinct enough and will be around after old marines are gone. Old marines are just out dated. Plain up. Though who knows. Maybe Gulliman will get around to making super cutodes. Hahaha.

Too much fools being too hopeful in this thread.

 Shadow Walker wrote:

LightKing wrote:
So are the Primaris marines as powerful as the Primarchs?

Either it is a genuine question which means you have no idea what a Primarch is or it is a troll attempt..

It's LightKing, so I'd say it's genuine.

No they aren't LightKing, they aren't even as powerful as a Custodian Guard.

Tyel wrote:

 Inevitable_Faith wrote:
I'm really worried about my Wyches this edition. I was really hoping they'd have a role to play in a DE army this time around. I know they weren't favoured in 7th but I still ran them and to be honest I had pretty decent success with them but I mostly ran them as a tarpit unit. That 4++ in CC really locked down elite opponents with few attacks. Now that everyone can choose to exit combat I started to fear for their viability as they can't even tarpit anymore but after seeing the Tau rules for getting to shoot after fleeing I'm really wondering how they'll be able to compete.

Fingers crossed that GW and the playtesters have found fun and unique ways to make Wyches a viable choice but I'll admit this is the first time I've been worried about the balance of 8th (not 8th as a whole, just 8th in regards to my favourite unit), just gotta be patient and see what it's like when it launches now I suppose.

Many things could have happened but unfortunately wyches are likely to be troops level light assault infantry (like wracks except they were elites for... reasons). Massed haywire could make a return but without rending (which its hard to see them getting) they are going to bounce on anything vaguely tough. As you say tarpitting is going to be less worthwhile and they will still probably die if anyone with a gun notices they exist.

Sort of hopeful for DE but there are so many of these light assault(ish) units that are unlikely to be good. Wyches, bloodbrides (if a thing), wracks, hellions, beastmasters, mandrakes (they might not be thought of this way any more), the archons court.

I doubt Wyches will get massed Haywire back, even if they did it wouldn't help since they'll likely still use the "only one model may use a grenade in CC" rule which kills that style of Wych play. To be honest I don't want Wyches to be Haywire delivery systems anyways, that's not really how they're represented in the fluff. Wyches got a buff with the new damage chart though as they now wound T5 on a 5+ and they can hurt anything on a 6 so there is that. I'm very curious to see what they do with combat drugs as that could maybe make them useful, I just hope they don't keep the current random table, there's too many useless drugs on there and random drugs put a level of unpredictability on a unit that needed every advantage it could get in 7th. Actually one way they could maybe help Wyches is with a couple rules, one that lets them always strike first in combat like the Daemonettes or Banshees got and another, maybe call it "inescapable speed" or something, make it so in CC Wyches are so good at keeping pace with their opponent and hounding them that your opponent may not choose to disengage if he's in CC with them. I picture Wyches running alongside and jumping on opponents who are trying to flee, hitching a ride on a suit as he tries to jump away only to have him fall back to earth with a Wych crawling on his back. That would allow Wyches to fill a role as tarpitt CC unit that most units in the game can't since units can disengage now. I'm fine with Wyches attacks hitting very weak, maybe bump up their attacks characteristic so it's a damage by volume thing. Death by a thousand cuts, seems like a very fluffy way for Wyches to kill things.

I'm still hopeful they'll have a place, most of what I've seen for 8th has me very excited, just the Tau stuff today had me worried Tau will be my hard counter again this edition. Balance we won't know until a few weeks after 8th launches but I've got my fingers crossed it'll be significantly better than 7th balance. It can't honestly get much worse now can it?

Oh, thanks, Gamgee, I guess we're fools now.
I though you said all you could, clearly you lied.

/rant

I actually might buy a box of five, I never would've started a new marines army, but I'd like to have some true scale marines to paint.

Tyel wrote:

 Inevitable_Faith wrote:
I'm really worried about my Wyches this edition. I was really hoping they'd have a role to play in a DE army this time around. I know they weren't favoured in 7th but I still ran them and to be honest I had pretty decent success with them but I mostly ran them as a tarpit unit. That 4++ in CC really locked down elite opponents with few attacks. Now that everyone can choose to exit combat I started to fear for their viability as they can't even tarpit anymore but after seeing the Tau rules for getting to shoot after fleeing I'm really wondering how they'll be able to compete.

Fingers crossed that GW and the playtesters have found fun and unique ways to make Wyches a viable choice but I'll admit this is the first time I've been worried about the balance of 8th (not 8th as a whole, just 8th in regards to my favourite unit), just gotta be patient and see what it's like when it launches now I suppose.

Many things could have happened but unfortunately wyches are likely to be troops level light assault infantry (like wracks except they were elites for... reasons). Massed haywire could make a return but without rending (which its hard to see them getting) they are going to bounce on anything vaguely tough. As you say tarpitting is going to be less worthwhile and they will still probably die if anyone with a gun notices they exist.

Sort of hopeful for DE but there are so many of these light assault(ish) units that are unlikely to be good. Wyches, bloodbrides (if a thing), wracks, hellions, beastmasters, mandrakes (they might not be thought of this way any more), the archons court.

.
You have no idea what any of these things do anymore. For all you know wyches are rend -14 base with 6 wounds and a -3 save(i.e. rend -6 to get them off of 2+). 8th is a whole new game and while things may still be really strong or really weak, what they did in 7th isn't really a useful indicator.

Maybe Guiliman will make Sisters of Battle Primaris too.
HERESY!
* Guilimant get melta-to-the-face and die *
* Sisters of Battle close the Cicatrix Maledictum *
Okay back to normal now!

Lord Kragan wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Rippy wrote:
>T'au
It makes me cri everytime

T'au™

>Just now I've heard their homeworlds name.

Nuff said.

They clearly said in the article that they are called the T'au now, not the Tau. Which is what makes me cri every time.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Gamgee wrote:
Yeah but Custodes used to be so good they sat around defending the Emperor. They weren't out there in mass numbers directly replacing space marines. As a matter of fact there were so few they were basically unique individuals not a real army.

They are also distinct enough and will be around after old marines are gone. Old marines are just out dated. Plain up. Though who knows. Maybe Gulliman will get around to making super cutodes. Hahaha.

Too much fools being too hopeful in this thread.

Okay Gamgee, you have made your point. You don't like the new marines.

The storm surge can fall back and still fire at full effect. Yep, great. Make Tau even harder to kill in CC by making it not easy to catch them and not giving them any drawbacks for it.

I said pages ago that the stratagems shown don't look that great when it comes to dealing with the huge problem units, and the storm surge is just that. It's all well and good brining a nice fluffy well rounded force and getting command points for it. Whoopee, you can re roll the failed charge and get in to combat with the storm surge that has been absolutely decimating your whole army almost single handily. Oh wait, that CP you just used to make the charge successful, yeah... The storm surge just ignored that and walked away, sorry buddy.

Tau needed to be hit with an overwhelmingly huge nerf bat along with Eldar, and there has been absolutely nothing shown so far that looks like that has happened. The AM and chaos articles have not pointed to anything anywhere near as powerful and spammable as what those two armies can bring. Heaven knows what the riptide and ghost keels are going to be capable of, and pointing back to Eldar, what the bloody wraith knight will be able to do.

The absolutely only saving grace could be their point values, and it needs to be so high that you are going to struggle to bring two in a 2000 pt games with your other requirements.

 Gamgee wrote:
Yeah but Custodes used to be so good they sat around defending the Emperor. They weren't out there in mass numbers directly replacing space marines. As a matter of fact there were so few they were basically unique individuals not a real army.

They are also distinct enough and will be around after old marines are gone. Old marines are just out dated. Plain up. Though who knows. Maybe Gulliman will get around to making super cutodes. Hahaha.

Too much fools being too hopeful in this thread.

So far that last sentence seems to apply far more to you than anyone else. Are you going to be like this when they release a new Tau tank too? 'Oh boohoo they came out with a new thing, all of my old things are completely useless now boohoo.'

Who cares if they do invalidate space marines? Space marine models were boring anyway, these are way better.

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
The absolutely only saving grace could be their point values, and it needs to be so high that you are going to struggle to bring two in a 2000 pt games with your other requirements.

I think you're pretty close here. I expect the Stormsurge to be feth off expensive.

 Lithlandis Stormcrow wrote:

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
The absolutely only saving grace could be their point values, and it needs to be so high that you are going to struggle to bring two in a 2000 pt games with your other requirements.

I think you're pretty close here. I expect the Stormsurge to be feth off expensive.

I was just about to say this, you will be paying for that giant gak!

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
The storm surge can fall back and still fire at full effect. Yep, great. Make Tau even harder to kill in CC by making it not easy to catch them and not giving them any drawbacks for it.

I said pages ago that the stratagems shown don't look that great when it comes to dealing with the huge problem units, and the storm surge is just that. It's all well and good brining a nice fluffy well rounded force and getting command points for it. Whoopee, you can re roll the failed charge and get in to combat with the storm surge that has been absolutely decimating your whole army almost single handily. Oh wait, that CP you just used to make the charge successful, yeah... The storm surge just ignored that and walked away, sorry buddy.

Tau needed to be hit with an overwhelmingly huge nerf bat along with Eldar, and there has been absolutely nothing shown so far that looks like that has happened. The AM and chaos articles have not pointed to anything anywhere near as powerful and spammable as what those two armies can bring. Heaven knows what the riptide and ghost keels are going to be capable of.

The absolutely only saving grace could be their point values, and it needs to be so high that you are going to struggle to bring two in a 2000 pt games with your other requirements.

You're looking at 8th as if it is 7th with some stank on it. It's an entirely new game, it doesn't matter what the models did before, comparing them is apples and oranges. The stormsurge could be the worst model in the game now, you don't know.

For all we know Dark Eldar and Blood Angels are the big cheese armies now.

ERJAK wrote:

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
The storm surge can fall back and still fire at full effect. Yep, great. Make Tau even harder to kill in CC by making it not easy to catch them and not giving them any drawbacks for it.

I said pages ago that the stratagems shown don't look that great when it comes to dealing with the huge problem units, and the storm surge is just that. It's all well and good brining a nice fluffy well rounded force and getting command points for it. Whoopee, you can re roll the failed charge and get in to combat with the storm surge that has been absolutely decimating your whole army almost single handily. Oh wait, that CP you just used to make the charge successful, yeah... The storm surge just ignored that and walked away, sorry buddy.

Tau needed to be hit with an overwhelmingly huge nerf bat along with Eldar, and there has been absolutely nothing shown so far that looks like that has happened. The AM and chaos articles have not pointed to anything anywhere near as powerful and spammable as what those two armies can bring. Heaven knows what the riptide and ghost keels are going to be capable of.

The absolutely only saving grace could be their point values, and it needs to be so high that you are going to struggle to bring two in a 2000 pt games with your other requirements.

You're looking at 8th as if it is 7th with some stank on it. It's an entirely new game, it doesn't matter what the models did before, comparing them is apples and oranges. The stormsurge could be the worst model in the game now, you don't know.

For all we know Dark Eldar and Blood Angels are the big cheese armies now.

I absolutely understand the point you are making totally. It's just with the information we already have, and with the information just given, it's still hard to figure out the golden goose for all armies when it comes to dealing with problem units like the storm surge will undoubtedly continue to be. That things going to have close to 20 wounds as well I imagine, given the details we have on other units.

I think my main issue with the new rules will actually be the frontline guys being involved. They most certainly have their favourite armies, and Tau is one of them, Eldar another.... I will wait to reserve full judgement on whether I believe there to be any bias on their part till the game comes out and we have a full picture of the rules, the storm surge being able to retreat from combat with no penalty is leaving a sour taste currently though.

I'm also convinced that the nu-marines will eventually phase out the current range, which is a net positive in my book.

People can gradually replace their units if they want to and the old marines will keep being useful for at least one more edition, so you don't have to burn everything in resentment.

Yes, they had to come up with a weird fluff reason for the new marines to exist in the first place, but that's a minor issue, as far as I'm concerned.

Replacing all at once would have conjured up a shitstorm GW seems to have avoided this time (in contrast to the way they handled WHFB).

 alleus wrote:
Emperor almighty.. people really need to relax. First people burned their Fantasy armies when Age of Sigmar was announced, and now they will sell their Marine armies because a new type of Marine was made?

I don't mind the fluff. They have even mentioned that some Chapters are actually sceptical and not sure what to think about these new Marines. I think this opens up for some nice progression within the Chapters themselves. Not to mention that the models themselves might just be the coolest minis that GW has ever produced, just from these first few glimpses I am pretty much sold.

I might be a simple man; I see a model I like, that is fun to play with, and I'm a happy camper. Stop treating plastic figures like the end of the world, and just relax.

Well said.

I like them, and may even pick up a box, but presently I'm going to stick to my standard marine models. I prefer the standard marine, and like their look, plus I'm a Blood Angels player and most of my chapter/home world of Baal is on the wrong side of the giant warp storm spanning the galaxy at present.

I've still got half a Tactical Squad (5 models), a 5 man Assault Squad, 4 more Scouts, at least 5 to 10 more Death Company, plus some possible Terminators and a Drop Pod, plus a Death Company Dreadnought and eventually a Storm Raven.

This information doesn't change my army or my plans in the slightest. If it really bothers you, may I suggest not taking the hobby so seriously and/or personally.

Just my .02 cents. Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

 Lithlandis Stormcrow wrote:
Don't worry they are just new models and we will be adding more and slowly replacing the SM boxes over the next couple of years to bring it in line with the new true scale models"

They would never say that. You don't tell everyone you're going to replace your most popular line 'eventually'. Sales would dry up. They want people to keep buying regular Marines.

Lord Kragan wrote:
>Just now I've heard their homeworlds name.

Nuff said.

You must have permanently wind-swept hair with the amount of things that go whooshing over you.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Lithlandis Stormcrow wrote:
Don't worry they are just new models and we will be adding more and slowly replacing the SM boxes over the next couple of years to bring it in line with the new true scale models"

They would never say that. You don't tell everyone you're going to replace your most popular line 'eventually'. Sales would dry up. They want people to keep buying regular Marines.

Yeah I know... but a little honesty goes a long way where I work. I guess it's just different approaches.

endlesswaltz123 wrote:

ERJAK wrote:

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
The storm surge can fall back and still fire at full effect. Yep, great. Make Tau even harder to kill in CC by making it not easy to catch them and not giving them any drawbacks for it.

I said pages ago that the stratagems shown don't look that great when it comes to dealing with the huge problem units, and the storm surge is just that. It's all well and good brining a nice fluffy well rounded force and getting command points for it. Whoopee, you can re roll the failed charge and get in to combat with the storm surge that has been absolutely decimating your whole army almost single handily. Oh wait, that CP you just used to make the charge successful, yeah... The storm surge just ignored that and walked away, sorry buddy.

Tau needed to be hit with an overwhelmingly huge nerf bat along with Eldar, and there has been absolutely nothing shown so far that looks like that has happened. The AM and chaos articles have not pointed to anything anywhere near as powerful and spammable as what those two armies can bring. Heaven knows what the riptide and ghost keels are going to be capable of.

The absolutely only saving grace could be their point values, and it needs to be so high that you are going to struggle to bring two in a 2000 pt games with your other requirements.

You're looking at 8th as if it is 7th with some stank on it. It's an entirely new game, it doesn't matter what the models did before, comparing them is apples and oranges. The stormsurge could be the worst model in the game now, you don't know.

For all we know Dark Eldar and Blood Angels are the big cheese armies now.

I absolutely understand the point you are making totally. It's just with the information we already have, and with the information just given, it's still hard to figure out the golden goose for all armies when it comes to dealing with problem units like the storm surge will undoubtedly continue to be. That things going to have close to 20 wounds as well I imagine, given the details we have on other units.

I think my main issue with the new rules will actually be the frontline guys being involved. They most certainly have their favourite armies, and Tau is one of them, Eldar another.... I will wait to reserve full judgement on whether I believe there to be any bias on their part till the game comes out and we have a full picture of the rules, the storm surge being able to retreat from combat with no penalty is leaving a sour taste currently though.

You say you understand my point and then you continue to talk about the stormsurge as a 'problem unit' despite knowing less than 50% of it's rules. It could have 2 wounds and a 6+ save. How do you know it will be difficult to deal with? How do you know other armies will NEED a golden goose to deal with it? How do you know it doesn't suck worse than vespids do now? you don't. And you won't for a solid month after 8th drops.

As for the frontline guys, Frankie's favorite army is Dark Eldar and Reece's is Orks/Astra Militarum.

ERJAK wrote:

endlesswaltz123 wrote:

ERJAK wrote:

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
The storm surge can fall back and still fire at full effect. Yep, great. Make Tau even harder to kill in CC by making it not easy to catch them and not giving them any drawbacks for it.

I said pages ago that the stratagems shown don't look that great when it comes to dealing with the huge problem units, and the storm surge is just that. It's all well and good brining a nice fluffy well rounded force and getting command points for it. Whoopee, you can re roll the failed charge and get in to combat with the storm surge that has been absolutely decimating your whole army almost single handily. Oh wait, that CP you just used to make the charge successful, yeah... The storm surge just ignored that and walked away, sorry buddy.

Tau needed to be hit with an overwhelmingly huge nerf bat along with Eldar, and there has been absolutely nothing shown so far that looks like that has happened. The AM and chaos articles have not pointed to anything anywhere near as powerful and spammable as what those two armies can bring. Heaven knows what the riptide and ghost keels are going to be capable of.

The absolutely only saving grace could be their point values, and it needs to be so high that you are going to struggle to bring two in a 2000 pt games with your other requirements.

You're looking at 8th as if it is 7th with some stank on it. It's an entirely new game, it doesn't matter what the models did before, comparing them is apples and oranges. The stormsurge could be the worst model in the game now, you don't know.

For all we know Dark Eldar and Blood Angels are the big cheese armies now.

I absolutely understand the point you are making totally. It's just with the information we already have, and with the information just given, it's still hard to figure out the golden goose for all armies when it comes to dealing with problem units like the storm surge will undoubtedly continue to be. That things going to have close to 20 wounds as well I imagine, given the details we have on other units.

I think my main issue with the new rules will actually be the frontline guys being involved. They most certainly have their favourite armies, and Tau is one of them, Eldar another.... I will wait to reserve full judgement on whether I believe there to be any bias on their part till the game comes out and we have a full picture of the rules, the storm surge being able to retreat from combat with no penalty is leaving a sour taste currently though.

You say you understand my point and then you continue to talk about the stormsurge as a 'problem unit' despite knowing less than 50% of it's rules. It could have 2 wounds and a 6+ save. How do you know it will be difficult to deal with? How do you know other armies will NEED a golden goose to deal with it? How do you know it doesn't suck worse than vespids do now? you don't. And you won't for a solid month after 8th drops.

As for the frontline guys, Frankie's favorite army is Dark Eldar and Reece's is Orks/Astra Militarum.

Come on, you know it will have a decent amount of wounds, Knights are going to have over 20, the storm surge will be around that number. And it would be absurd for it to have a 6+ save. You don't need to wait for the rules to be guessing some things.

Like I said before, the saving grace will be it's point cost, or that lower tier armies will no longer be lower tier as you pointed out and will challenge. I just can't see how currently. To be fair, we need to know a lot more about melee, namely the weapons and what they can do, still though, melee is only good if you can get to the damn thing you are trying to take out.

Anyway, my main issue is the second paragraph in my first post. They are trying to award balanced armies, what good will that do if uber units can ignore those awards, or can just plainly pump out so much damage that there will be little the CP's can be given to or they just don't seem worth it. Basically, I can't see the typical power gaming arms race NOT happening from the current rules we have been given, even though there is claims from the designers and testers that it will not happen/every unit will have a purpose and balanced armies will be able to compete.

 Lithlandis Stormcrow wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Lithlandis Stormcrow wrote:
Don't worry they are just new models and we will be adding more and slowly replacing the SM boxes over the next couple of years to bring it in line with the new true scale models"

They would never say that. You don't tell everyone you're going to replace your most popular line 'eventually'. Sales would dry up. They want people to keep buying regular Marines.

Yeah I know... but a little honesty goes a long way where I work. I guess it's just different approaches.

Well not in sales really. As it is them being truthfull with the 8th ed is likely gamble as it is. Wouldn't be surprised if 40k sales have stalled a lot as people wait for new ed. They are banking it pays back in more sales in long run when it gets released.

 Lithlandis Stormcrow wrote:

endlesswaltz123 wrote:

BlueGrassGamer wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Still missing the Sergeant's wargear

Spoiler:

since we saw im with a power sword and bolt pistol..

Depends on whether or not Game Workshop is keeping with the traditions and markings they they've laid down in Insignium Astartes and their own Studio armies. In the debut video for the Primaris Space Marines, there's a shot or two of what looks to be a squad or two of Space Marines. The squad looks like it's made up of four Primaris Marines and one Primaris Marine that has a red helmet, all armed with bolters. Going by Insignium Astartes and GW's current Studio armies, the red helmeted Primaris Marine should be the Sergeant. The Primaris Marine that has the white-red-white livery running down his helmet and is armed with the bolt pistol and power sword might be a character of some kind (maybe akain to the Space Marine Commander).

White line down the middle of a red helmet has traditionally been used to define a veteran sergeant over a normal sergeant.

ERJAK wrote:

endlesswaltz123 wrote:

ERJAK wrote:

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
The storm surge can fall back and still fire at full effect. Yep, great. Make Tau even harder to kill in CC by making it not easy to catch them and not giving them any drawbacks for it.

I said pages ago that the stratagems shown don't look that great when it comes to dealing with the huge problem units, and the storm surge is just that. It's all well and good brining a nice fluffy well rounded force and getting command points for it. Whoopee, you can re roll the failed charge and get in to combat with the storm surge that has been absolutely decimating your whole army almost single handily. Oh wait, that CP you just used to make the charge successful, yeah... The storm surge just ignored that and walked away, sorry buddy.

Tau needed to be hit with an overwhelmingly huge nerf bat along with Eldar, and there has been absolutely nothing shown so far that looks like that has happened. The AM and chaos articles have not pointed to anything anywhere near as powerful and spammable as what those two armies can bring. Heaven knows what the riptide and ghost keels are going to be capable of.

The absolutely only saving grace could be their point values, and it needs to be so high that you are going to struggle to bring two in a 2000 pt games with your other requirements.

You're looking at 8th as if it is 7th with some stank on it. It's an entirely new game, it doesn't matter what the models did before, comparing them is apples and oranges. The stormsurge could be the worst model in the game now, you don't know.

For all we know Dark Eldar and Blood Angels are the big cheese armies now.

I absolutely understand the point you are making totally. It's just with the information we already have, and with the information just given, it's still hard to figure out the golden goose for all armies when it comes to dealing with problem units like the storm surge will undoubtedly continue to be. That things going to have close to 20 wounds as well I imagine, given the details we have on other units.

I think my main issue with the new rules will actually be the frontline guys being involved. They most certainly have their favourite armies, and Tau is one of them, Eldar another.... I will wait to reserve full judgement on whether I believe there to be any bias on their part till the game comes out and we have a full picture of the rules, the storm surge being able to retreat from combat with no penalty is leaving a sour taste currently though.

You say you understand my point and then you continue to talk about the stormsurge as a 'problem unit' despite knowing less than 50% of it's rules. It could have 2 wounds and a 6+ save. How do you know it will be difficult to deal with? How do you know other armies will NEED a golden goose to deal with it? How do you know it doesn't suck worse than vespids do now? you don't. And you won't for a solid month after 8th drops.

As for the frontline guys, Frankie's favorite army is Dark Eldar and Reece's is Orks/Astra Militarum.

Your common sense will be lost in this thread, like tears in rain.

 Latro_ wrote:

 Lithlandis Stormcrow wrote:

endlesswaltz123 wrote:

BlueGrassGamer wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Still missing the Sergeant's wargear

Spoiler:

since we saw im with a power sword and bolt pistol..

Depends on whether or not Game Workshop is keeping with the traditions and markings they they've laid down in Insignium Astartes and their own Studio armies. In the debut video for the Primaris Space Marines, there's a shot or two of what looks to be a squad or two of Space Marines. The squad looks like it's made up of four Primaris Marines and one Primaris Marine that has a red helmet, all armed with bolters. Going by Insignium Astartes and GW's current Studio armies, the red helmeted Primaris Marine should be the Sergeant. The Primaris Marine that has the white-red-white livery running down his helmet and is armed with the bolt pistol and power sword might be a character of some kind (maybe akain to the Space Marine Commander).

White line down the middle of a red helmet has traditionally been used to define a veteran sergeant over a normal sergeant.

Vorian wrote:
[Your common sense will be lost in this thread, like tears in rain.

Anybody claiming stormsurge might have 2 wounds and 6+ save doesn't really have common sense.

You know what common sense can be used to? Accurately extrapolate rules and their impact from imperfect information. People have been doing that for years. As it is you could already play fairly accurate game of 8th ed if you wanted to put effort to.