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Made in us
Auspicious Aspiring Champion of Chaos




Until tzeentch gets a new battletome.

Basically if you are playing an army / factiion that doesn't have up to date rules (the vast majority of factions) you are likely boned if your opponent is going alpha list.

GW points don't bring balance. They exist purely for structure. You can get more balance from no points than you do from GW points. You however can get no structure in your game without points. 
   
Made in us
Enigmatic Exalted Daemon





Albany, NY

 Manfred von Drakken wrote:
I play Tzeentch, which really does only one thing well.
*cough* and we don't always do that all that well *cough*

So I own a Khorne Daemon army (100% metal) that I've used in AOS a few times, pre-battletome era. It was a thing. Then I started building a new Khorne Daemon army (100% plastic), got sick of AOS and ported the project to 40k, had no interest in 7E so ported back to AOS when Blades dropped and played a game or two, soured of AOS and ported back to 40k for 8E, where it's gained some traction. Could possibly pop back over to see how this new book works?

I'll give AOS credit, the new battletomes do add significant flavor to daemons in particular, who are pretty one note in 40k. While I enjoy playing 40k the game with my Tizz Daemons due to the system being more developed, I enjoy playing my Tizz Daemons the army in AOS due to the subfaction actually having rules that do Tzeentchian things #destinydiceforever

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/03/14 13:12:20


BLOODFIRE: KOW SALAMANDER REPORTS 
   
Made in si
Steady Stonecleaver







Would be nice if Tzeentch could just roll a 3+ to shut down the Khorne combat phase since apparently it's fine to just remove phases you're not good at.

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Made in us
Auspicious Aspiring Champion of Chaos




I mean, they don't have a "2.0" book yet so who knows, that wouldn't surprise me to see.

GW points don't bring balance. They exist purely for structure. You can get more balance from no points than you do from GW points. You however can get no structure in your game without points. 
   
Made in es
Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets




Vigo. Spain.

The only thing I dislike is the terrain piece because don't bypass the language filter like this. free terrain pieces with free bonuses.

Eveyrthing else I don't see a problem with. At the end of the day they receive those bonuses instead of others and agaisnt many factions they aren't even gonna work. I'm actually angsty, because if they become too much anti-psyker army they could end up going the GK route.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/16 13:19:21


 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
Made in jp
Longtime Dakkanaut





 lord_blackfang wrote:
Would be nice if Tzeentch could just roll a 3+ to shut down the Khorne combat phase since apparently it's fine to just remove phases you're not good at.

That’s just a tiny bit of an exaggeration don’t you think? The endless spell effect can be mitigated by the lord of change, and you can roll exactly 8 nine times before you need to worry about losing any spells. I’m not saying Tzeentch is the greatest army going right now but you maight actually do better against Khorne than some other magic heavy armies thanks to the destiny dice.
   
Made in us
Androgynous Daemon Prince of Slaanesh





Norwalk, Connecticut

 Manfred von Drakken wrote:
 D6Damager wrote:
 Manfred von Drakken wrote:
So, basically GW is telling me that I auto-lose to a Khorne army?


There's only two models (both mortal) that actually enable the Judgements, Slaughterpriests and the Warshrine. The Warshrine doesn't really work sitting stationary in the back of the army as it is a support piece for mortals that needs to move up with the army.

Then there's the opportunity cost. A slaughterpriest (the cheapest priest) is 100 points plus the cost of the judgement spells. You could just be adding another unit of bloodletters to your army which also do mortal wounds, capture objectives, and put more bodies on the field for blood tithe purposes.

So the only thing that really is gained if you don't invest in the priests and judgements, is just the free terrain piece for the 16" bubble of difficult spellcasting. Which isn't bad, but easily played around/avoided by your opponent.

I'm really hoping there is an artifact or warlord trait that turns a model (especially for daemons) into a priest.




I play Tzeentch, which really does only one thing well. Khorne has about 8,000 ways to mess that up, and rocks face in combat while doing it.

So, I'm boned. Seems like there's little point in playing against Khorne anymore.


Aren’t you worried more about Slaanesh? That Infernal Enrapturess makes doubles peril...and LoCs of all varieties ONLY roll doubles. Tzeentch GW Slaanesh is basically an automatic loss if you play with any LoCs. You won’t out-CC a Slaanesh army, they’ll be hitting you turn 1 with half the army, turn 2 with the second half, and they shut down tzeentch magic more than Khorne does. Trust me, this Khorne matchup is WAY more favorable for you.

Reality is a nice place to visit, but I'd hate to live there.

Manchu wrote:I'm a Catholic. We eat our God.


Due to work, I can usually only ship any sales or trades out on Saturday morning. Please trade/purchase with this in mind.  
   
Made in us
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle






Chikout wrote:
 lord_blackfang wrote:
Would be nice if Tzeentch could just roll a 3+ to shut down the Khorne combat phase since apparently it's fine to just remove phases you're not good at.

That’s just a tiny bit of an exaggeration don’t you think? The endless spell effect can be mitigated by the lord of change, and you can roll exactly 8 nine times before you need to worry about losing any spells. I’m not saying Tzeentch is the greatest army going right now but you maight actually do better against Khorne than some other magic heavy armies thanks to the destiny dice.
Khorne pays points for the ability to summon a model that applies a penalty to magic in a large but still limited-range bubble that has a chance to vanish on its own at the end of turn without the Tzeentch player doing anything.

With all due respect, if what we have seen so far means auto-lose for a Tzeentch player then that player needs to learn and apply better counter-strategies. Now if it turns out to be like 20 points for the skulls and the altar can be deployed anywhere on the Khorne's player's table half than that is a different matter.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Alpharius wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Not too impressed with the judgements of khorne. The skulls are cool but the other two are just MW delivery with a side benefit. The skull altar on the other hand I like, it gives the army prayer re rolls without gore pilgrims.
Seems that most Endless Spells of late just deliver MW's in varying ways.


I do kind of like AoS, but it really is the +1/-1/Re-roll/MW game.

Maybe that's an inherent limitation of a d6 system, or maybe it is down to the limitations of whoever is in charge or writing the rules?
It is the rules writing. There are a number of routes they could take (including just having sources of MWs not deal as many of them) that are not taken. That said, the statement that most endless spells of late are MW delivery mechanisms is inaccurate.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/03/14 21:46:32


"Putting a statement in quotations makes it seem more legitimate."
--Bette R. Withname

Imagine three people with the same set of values but radically different emotional states, each of them believes their position is more valid than the other two, they all post using the same account, and your job is to make it coherent. 
   
Made in us
Unrelenting Rubric Terminator of Tzeentch





Southern New Hampshire

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Chikout wrote:
 lord_blackfang wrote:
Would be nice if Tzeentch could just roll a 3+ to shut down the Khorne combat phase since apparently it's fine to just remove phases you're not good at.

That’s just a tiny bit of an exaggeration don’t you think? The endless spell effect can be mitigated by the lord of change, and you can roll exactly 8 nine times before you need to worry about losing any spells. I’m not saying Tzeentch is the greatest army going right now but you maight actually do better against Khorne than some other magic heavy armies thanks to the destiny dice.
Khorne pays points for the ability to summon a model that applies a penalty to magic in a large but still limited-range bubble that has a chance to vanish on its own at the end of turn without the Tzeentch player doing anything.

With all due respect, if what we have seen so far means auto-lose for a Tzeentch player then that player needs to learn and apply better counter-strategies. Now if it turns out to be like 20 points for the skulls and the altar can be deployed anywhere on the Khorne's player's table half than that is a different matter.


When so much of an army is dedicated to screwing up the ONE thing you're good at and you can't counter the thing they're good at, "get better, newb' isn't the most helpful piece of advice.

And how many of the new faction terrain pieces can't be placed anywhere in your own deployment zone? Skaven Gnawholes, of which you get three and can set up in the opponent's zone?

"There are no problems that cannot be solved with cannons." - Chief Engineer Boris Krauss of Nuln

AoS - Fires of Change : "The Everchosen stole my destiny. Soon, I shall return the favor." The Unmaker, Gaunt Summoner of Tzeentch

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WHFB 'Ard Boyz 09: Prelims - 70 (1st) Semis - 53 (2nd) Finals - 21 (Thumped!) 
   
Made in tr
Dakka Veteran





Voss wrote:
 silverstu wrote:
Warcry looks good - the terrain looks great and I like the idea. But I'm not a chaos fan- hopefully they will add other factions to this. I was hoping it would be layer above shadespire towards the full AoS game.


It looks very much like a Necromunda equivalent. 2 of 6 gangs in the box with more to follow.
Plus beasties, some of which look like they're attached to a warband, others like 'map hazards'


But I really hope the release and rules model isn't as awful as Necromunda.


As it’s GW not FW led, I’d assume it to be more like Underworlds/Kill Team/BSF or anything in that vein..


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, unrelated;

You know what puzzles/annoys me.
AoS gets this one thread for anything in the Mortal Realms setting. (All main game,Warcry,Underworlds, everything..)

But 40k gets threads for every game (Necro/BSF), faction release (Orks,GSC,Sisters etc), expansion (Vigilus/Shadowspear) And any tiny thing they release pretty much.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/03/14 23:04:18


 
   
Made in ie
Longtime Dakkanaut






Danny76 wrote:


Also, unrelated;

You know what puzzles/annoys me.
AoS gets this one thread for anything in the Mortal Realms setting. (All main game,Warcry,Underworlds, everything..)

But 40k gets threads for every game (Necro/BSF), faction release (Orks,GSC,Sisters etc), expansion (Vigilus/Shadowspear) And any tiny thing they release pretty much.


Anyone can start a new thread if they so wish (and Underworlds already has thread) so you can be annoyed about it or you could start a new thread

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/03/14 23:15:07


 
   
Made in jp
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Manfred von Drakken wrote:
 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Chikout wrote:
 lord_blackfang wrote:
Would be nice if Tzeentch could just roll a 3+ to shut down the Khorne combat phase since apparently it's fine to just remove phases you're not good at.
When so much of an army is dedicated to screwing up the ONE thing you're good at and you can't counter the thing they're good at, "get better, newb' isn't the most helpful piece of advice.

OK, how about this. Put the blue scribes in your list. Once a turn they can cast a spell on 2+ that is unaffected by modifiers, as it is not a typical casting roll. You can then cast the spell that lets everyone else reroll failed casting roles. You also have on the the best combat units in the game with the Tzaangor enlightened.
   
Made in tr
Dakka Veteran





 DaveC wrote:
Danny76 wrote:


Also, unrelated;

You know what puzzles/annoys me.
AoS gets this one thread for anything in the Mortal Realms setting. (All main game,Warcry,Underworlds, everything..)

But 40k gets threads for every game (Necro/BSF), faction release (Orks,GSC,Sisters etc), expansion (Vigilus/Shadowspear) And any tiny thing they release pretty much.


Anyone can start a new thread if they so wish (and Underworlds already has thread) so you can be annoyed about it or you could start a new thread


I guess, though in the last year I’m sure I’ve seen several closed with ‘already discussed here’ cited. Which is fair enough.
But the new chaos crawler for instance, gets discussed in the Rumour Mill, Gama, Shadowspear etc.

It shouldn’t bother me, as I don’t play any kind of AoS (nothing since Fabatsy RIP) games.
Though Warcry could be the one, it looks awesome, great models, I love Kill Team.
(And of course I need more models to paint and have loads of free time to invest in a new game.. )
   
Made in us
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle






 Manfred von Drakken wrote:
 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Chikout wrote:
 lord_blackfang wrote:
Would be nice if Tzeentch could just roll a 3+ to shut down the Khorne combat phase since apparently it's fine to just remove phases you're not good at.

That’s just a tiny bit of an exaggeration don’t you think? The endless spell effect can be mitigated by the lord of change, and you can roll exactly 8 nine times before you need to worry about losing any spells. I’m not saying Tzeentch is the greatest army going right now but you maight actually do better against Khorne than some other magic heavy armies thanks to the destiny dice.
Khorne pays points for the ability to summon a model that applies a penalty to magic in a large but still limited-range bubble that has a chance to vanish on its own at the end of turn without the Tzeentch player doing anything.

With all due respect, if what we have seen so far means auto-lose for a Tzeentch player then that player needs to learn and apply better counter-strategies. Now if it turns out to be like 20 points for the skulls and the altar can be deployed anywhere on the Khorne's player's table half than that is a different matter.


When so much of an army is dedicated to screwing up the ONE thing you're good at and you can't counter the thing they're good at, "get better, newb' isn't the most helpful piece of advice.

And how many of the new faction terrain pieces can't be placed anywhere in your own deployment zone? Skaven Gnawholes, of which you get three and can set up in the opponent's zone?
Territory =/= deployement zone. Anywhere in territory can mean anywhere on the whole board half, as in basically the middle of the board. Anywhere in deployment zone would mean only 12" in on a standard setup. The difference is huge.

Also, 'so much of an army' as in:
-A terrain piece
-A judgement they pay points for
-A 5 wound buff-bubble character that also debuffs casting in the same range

Again, it may be that Khorne anti-magic is so strong and so cheap that it screws Tzeentch over hard. But from what we have seen that call is premature because the resources currently available can be countered with proper play. Tzeentch deals MWs which Stormcast have no defense against, but to say that automatically decides the matchup is silly because there are so many other factors involved.

"Putting a statement in quotations makes it seem more legitimate."
--Bette R. Withname

Imagine three people with the same set of values but radically different emotional states, each of them believes their position is more valid than the other two, they all post using the same account, and your job is to make it coherent. 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Warscrolls have been updated on the GW site. Seems like a lot of changes from what people are saying on the facebook group.

Mighty skullcrushers went up to 3+ save but lost the spells save but gained another attack on all their weapons and the demon bloodcrushers charge ability.
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
That said, the statement that most endless spells of late are MW delivery mechanisms is inaccurate.
I feel I should clarify, or, rather, should have been more clear in the use of my word 'deliver'. I should have said 'causing' MW, not delivering. I don't think that all the recent spells are MW delivery systems. I think that they cause MW's in various ways. Even the Goblin one that doesn't hurt the enemy still causes MWs to the user. They're like the C'Tan abilities - all just slightly different ways of causing MWs - different paths to end up at largely the same result.

That's why they're lazy. That's why MW bloat (and aura re-rolls/1+'s or -1's) permeating the game is so bad. And this affects 40k as well.

   
Made in ca
Wondering Why the Emperor Left





Edmonton, AB

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 NinthMusketeer wrote:
That said, the statement that most endless spells of late are MW delivery mechanisms is inaccurate.
I feel I should clarify, or, rather, should have been more clear in the use of my word 'deliver'. I should have said 'causing' MW, not delivering. I don't think that all the recent spells are MW delivery systems. I think that they cause MW's in various ways. Even the Goblin one that doesn't hurt the enemy still causes MWs to the user. They're like the C'Tan abilities - all just slightly different ways of causing MWs - different paths to end up at largely the same result.

That's why they're lazy. That's why MW bloat (and aura re-rolls/1+'s or -1's) permeating the game is so bad. And this affects 40k as well.


I don't know enough to agree or disagree for other army specific Endless Spells, but I'm glad my FEC got 2 other endless spells that did more than just cause wounds. Its gotta be tough to try and come up with 3-4 unique ideas for spells for each tome, especially if they also have to be comparable to the Malign Sorcery spells.

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Made in us
Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle






 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 NinthMusketeer wrote:
That said, the statement that most endless spells of late are MW delivery mechanisms is inaccurate.
I feel I should clarify, or, rather, should have been more clear in the use of my word 'deliver'. I should have said 'causing' MW, not delivering. I don't think that all the recent spells are MW delivery systems. I think that they cause MW's in various ways. Even the Goblin one that doesn't hurt the enemy still causes MWs to the user. They're like the C'Tan abilities - all just slightly different ways of causing MWs - different paths to end up at largely the same result.

That's why they're lazy. That's why MW bloat (and aura re-rolls/1+'s or -1's) permeating the game is so bad. And this affects 40k as well.
Ahhh, yeah that's a good summary of the issue.

"Putting a statement in quotations makes it seem more legitimate."
--Bette R. Withname

Imagine three people with the same set of values but radically different emotional states, each of them believes their position is more valid than the other two, they all post using the same account, and your job is to make it coherent. 
   
 
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