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 BaronIveagh wrote:

 Eilif wrote:

I don't think either of us know how profitable SG was, but I do agree about the move away from metal. GW seems to be getting out of metal. If SG wasn't worth developing further 6 years ago then it certainly wouldn't be getting the finecast treatment now.

I'll be blunt: Jervis Johnson turned down an offer to develop BFG further FOR FREE. Free as in absolutely at no cost to GW whatsoever, 100% profit in their pocket. Free. THAT'S how disinterested GW was in pursuing further development of SG and BFG in particular.

Is that true Baronlveagh?

I heard some years ago (although never could find out if it was true) that at one point the entire SG lines were going to get ditched - as in, not minimal support as they have had, but absolutely no rules and no miniatures available to buy. JJ then stepped in and offered to look after the whole specialist games range, to be responsible for it, and basically to do it for nothing as it was in addition to his other duties.

If that is true then it is down to JJ that we have had SG support at all for all of these years, even if it was a sorry reflection of its former self. Although your slant on that paints a very different picture!

Well a few things have popped back up after being gone but there isn't much of anything left in the Epic and Gothic areas.

If it turns out they are redoing them (which I doubt since plastic models have gone off sale) then I'll only feel slightly silly at what I paid for stuff (only bought a few things above retail via people and ebay) but to me it'll be worth it to have all the stuff I wanted. I'm looking forward to getting my Epic and Gothic painted up.

For those that wanted to know my conversation happened with my account rep the first week of May. So the info isn't dated, but could be a smoke cloud, admittedly

silent25 wrote:

Was checking a link is a discussion on another forum and noticed the Warmaster figure had a note of "Expected to dispatch in four weeks". Struck me as odd, and decided to check on the Warmaster Dark Elf Hydra which had been listed as no longer available when this rumor first started and I went to try to buy it. Option to add to shopping cart was gone.

Is there now available for purchase with the same message:
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat490075a&prodId=prod1130023

I'm hoping this will happen with the AdMech Light Cruiser. It has the same "Expected to dispatch in four weeks" message and the add to cart button, but you can't add it to your cart. Hoping they are waiting for a shipment from the UK.

T

silent25 wrote:
I think this may all turn out to be false and SG isn't dead.

Was checking a link is a discussion on another forum and noticed the Warmaster figure had a note of "Expected to dispatch in four weeks". Struck me as odd, and decided to check on the Warmaster Dark Elf Hydra which had been listed as no longer available when this rumor first started and I went to try to buy it. Option to add to shopping cart was gone.

Is there now available for purchase with the same message:
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat490075a&prodId=prod1130023

Think there was some bad communication on between production and sales or GW just played us for a bunch of tools.

And Kid Kyoto, Arbite Enforcers are baaaaack!
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat490065a&prodId=prod1120127

I think you're just being a little bit too optimistic. Ever since we got word they were pulling the ranges, things have been vanishing and occasionally popping back up and then vanishing again. Mostly it's just been vanishing though. Even on the Forge World site I snagged a few things after they went "out of stock" then briefly came back "in stock".

But overall the range is pretty much gone, and I don't know what country GW site you are looking at, but both your links just redirect me to the GW homepage.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
I think you're just being a little bit too optimistic. Ever since we got word they were pulling the ranges, things have been vanishing and occasionally popping back up and then vanishing again. Mostly it's just been vanishing though. Even on the Forge World site I snagged a few things after they went "out of stock" then briefly came back "in stock".

But overall the range is pretty much gone, and I don't know what country GW site you are looking at, but both your links just redirect me to the GW homepage.

Getting redirected as well. Not sure what is going on. Was logged into the US site.

Think the GW network admins are just trolling us

You sure you were on the US site? Cause I'm getting a blank page when I click on the Enforcer section.

 Pacific wrote:
Although your slant on that paints a very different picture!

I got it right from Nate Montes and Ray Bell, both of whom sit on the BFG Rules committee set up by GW. Nate in particular wrote for BFG: Armada and BFGM. They met face to face with Jervis about the issue. I'm told that his response was right up there with asking him when Codex: Squats 6e would be published..

 BaronIveagh wrote:

 Pacific wrote:
Although your slant on that paints a very different picture!

I got it right from Nate Montes and Ray Bell, both of whom sit on the BFG Rules committee set up by GW. Nate in particular wrote for BFG: Armada and BFGM. They met face to face with Jervis about the issue. I'm told that his response was right up there with asking him when Codex: Squats 6e would be published..

So... before or after the next Bretonnian army book?

Well if the rules exist and are play tested they should be released, at least over the net.

 adamsouza wrote:
Well if the rules exist and are play tested they should be released, at least over the net.

For free? I don't think so!

Some interesting stuff above, and if it's all true (at least partly) then it would suggest that JJ has essentially been carrying the line for all these years personally, and has either decided or been told that his time could be better used elsewhere.

Also RE: stuff coming back into stock - I wouldn't get too excited, I would imagine that as models are being found around the warehouse they're being made available again briefly - I was able to grab a 3rd bag of FW strike fighters after they'd already gone OOS when they popped up again, but they clearly only had the 1 as it had gone OOS straight after I bought it.

 Riquende wrote:
Some interesting stuff above, and if it's all true (at least partly) then it would suggest that JJ has essentially been carrying the line for all these years personally, and has either decided or been told that his time could be better used elsewhere.

Also RE: stuff coming back into stock - I wouldn't get too excited, I would imagine that as models are being found around the warehouse they're being made available again briefly - I was able to grab a 3rd bag of FW strike fighters after they'd already gone OOS when they popped up again, but they clearly only had the 1 as it had gone OOS straight after I bought it.

Yeah, I grabbed Hell Blades, Hell Talons, Grot Bombs, something else I don't remember. All were listed out of stock, appeared again as in stock, then went out of stock again as soon as I placed the order.

I've managed to buy most of what I want except for the Imperials where I have a bunch of fighters but no bombers or transports :( Also don't really have any ground support, but given I used to collect epic 40k, I'm sure I can convert something up out of my existing models and just recast it to hell.

 Riquende wrote:
Also RE: stuff coming back into stock - I wouldn't get too excited, I would imagine that as models are being found around the warehouse they're being made available again briefly - I was able to grab a 3rd bag of FW strike fighters after they'd already gone OOS when they popped up again, but they clearly only had the 1 as it had gone OOS straight after I bought it.

I called about my order and asked about that, and the items that came back into stock weren't new production, they were just the result of failed orders (credit card company rejected the transaction, etc) freeing up models that had been allocated to someone else. Maybe for some of them they found another one stuck in the back of the shelf, but it's definitely not any real restocking. And of course now most of the Epic stuff has been removed from the website entirely.

(And you're the who bought those Lightning strike fighters while I was waiting to get to the bank and deposit some more cash.)

 BaronIveagh wrote:

 notprop wrote:

Even a "free" revision would have required reviewing checking and I would suggest playtesting before you would accept it and rubber stamp it for publication. There is also the question of legal ownership to resolve.

All of which had already been done by the GW appointed BFG rules committee. When I say this was ready to go, it was fething READY. We had play tested it for six months and I know that I, at least, had to fill in the usual permissions to use my name and work etc.

Yes I'm sure it was 100% satisfactory from the rules committees PoV, but this ignores the simple fact that no corporation will accept something without carrying our due diligence on it before it can be published as GW material. Done fully this could be a few weeks work for a couple of people, even at the lesser end this will take somebodies time up. Either way it is money to rehash an existing ruleset, which on face value there may be little obvious benefit to an accountant for expenditure of resources.

Though the graft would have been done gratis there would still be a cost to GW as you wouldn't expect them to just rubber stamp something on the say so of even a trusted source.

The Blood Bowl compeition rules that GW are hosting are the evolution of the Living Rulebooks that were written by somebody who seems to occupy a similar position to this BFG committee. I don't know if GW hosted all the various LRB versions as they went though.

Not saying you're wrong in that GW would have to retain final oversight over a fan-produced document, Notprop, but they have done it before.

(And you're the who bought those Lightning strike fighters while I was waiting to get to the bank and deposit some more cash.)

Sorry man... I just wanted them real bad.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Riquende wrote:
Also RE: stuff coming back into stock - I wouldn't get too excited, I would imagine that as models are being found around the warehouse they're being made available again briefly - I was able to grab a 3rd bag of FW strike fighters after they'd already gone OOS when they popped up again, but they clearly only had the 1 as it had gone OOS straight after I bought it.

I called about my order and asked about that, and the items that came back into stock weren't new production, they were just the result of failed orders (credit card company rejected the transaction, etc) freeing up models that had been allocated to someone else. Maybe for some of them they found another one stuck in the back of the shelf, but it's definitely not any real restocking. And of course now most of the Epic stuff has been removed from the website entirely.

(And you're the who bought those Lightning strike fighters while I was waiting to get to the bank and deposit some more cash.)

Yeah this sounds about right. I had some Battle Fleet Gothic and AI stuff come through, some were damaged. I've just recieved an email back from Forge World advising
" unfortunately, we will be unable to provide any replacement kits or parts for these models. the reason being these kits have been discontinued and we no longer have any moulds to remake them."

So that looks like it, no moulds no remake in plastic or resin. Also look at some of the crazy prices these things are moving at over ebay

 Peregrine wrote:

 Riquende wrote:
Also RE: stuff coming back into stock - I wouldn't get too excited, I would imagine that as models are being found around the warehouse they're being made available again briefly - I was able to grab a 3rd bag of FW strike fighters after they'd already gone OOS when they popped up again, but they clearly only had the 1 as it had gone OOS straight after I bought it.

I called about my order and asked about that, and the items that came back into stock weren't new production, they were just the result of failed orders (credit card company rejected the transaction, etc) freeing up models that had been allocated to someone else. Maybe for some of them they found another one stuck in the back of the shelf, but it's definitely not any real restocking. And of course now most of the Epic stuff has been removed from the website entirely.

(And you're the who bought those Lightning strike fighters while I was waiting to get to the bank and deposit some more cash.)

Your credit card company rejected the transaction with FW? So did mine, which I found odd because I've bought stuff on that card from FW before. It made me pretty unhappy as it made me miss several items I wanted in that initial flurry.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 notprop wrote:

 BaronIveagh wrote:

 notprop wrote:

Even a "free" revision would have required reviewing checking and I would suggest playtesting before you would accept it and rubber stamp it for publication. There is also the question of legal ownership to resolve.

All of which had already been done by the GW appointed BFG rules committee. When I say this was ready to go, it was fething READY. We had play tested it for six months and I know that I, at least, had to fill in the usual permissions to use my name and work etc.

Yes I'm sure it was 100% satisfactory from the rules committees PoV, but this ignores the simple fact that no corporation will accept something without carrying our due diligence on it before it can be published as GW material. Done fully this could be a few weeks work for a couple of people, even at the lesser end this will take somebodies time up. Either way it is money to rehash an existing ruleset, which on face value there may be little obvious benefit to an accountant for expenditure of resources.

Though the graft would have been done gratis there would still be a cost to GW as you wouldn't expect them to just rubber stamp something on the say so of even a trusted source.

Are we talking about the same Games Workshop here who posted a FAQ from one army with a footer from another army, guessing because they just copy/pasted without checking the actual file before they uploaded it? The same GW who manages to write FAQs that are frequently as vague as the original rule, just shifting the vagueness from one area to another?

I'm sure they would want to read it first, but I doubt they'd spend a lot of time editing a PDF that's going to be uploaded (vs. a printed book that's being published).

 adamsouza wrote:
Well if the rules exist and are play tested they should be released, at least over the net.

I was released over the net as BFG FAQ 2010. This was after all, an overhaul and development of the existing rules rather than a whole new system (don't let the fact we called it a FAQ fool you, it's because the Chambers revision of Blue Book was called BFG FAQ 2007). However, you do have to go digging, as it was released online as a series of PDFs rather than a single pdf.

Except in this thread below on Dark Reign where yours truly got tired of futzing around with several different files that made up the final internet release and welded them together in order of page number.

http://darkreign.org/forum/index.php?topic=5459.0


Note: On the single irksome item in it: The SM SC lance option was nerfed hard by demand, as many testers railed that, while the option was balanced at str 2 for free, it was against canon to allow SM lances. So RAW was the compromise.

 BaronIveagh wrote:

 adamsouza wrote:
Well if the rules exist and are play tested they should be released, at least over the net.

I was released over the net as BFG FAQ 2010. This was after all, an overhaul and development of the existing rules rather than a whole new system (don't let the fact we called it a FAQ fool you, it's because the Chambers revision of Blue Book was called BFG FAQ 2007). However, you do have to go digging, as it was released online as a series of PDFs rather than a single pdf.

Except in this thread below on Dark Reign where yours truly got tired of futzing around with several different files that made up the final internet release and welded them together in order of page number.

http://darkreign.org/forum/index.php?topic=5459.0


Note: On the single irksome item in it: The SM SC lance option was nerfed hard by demand, as many testers railed that, while the option was balanced at str 2 for free, it was against canon to allow SM lances. So RAW was the compromise.

So, is BFGFAQ2010 what is currently available from Games Workshop, is it a set of updates to those rules, or is it a complete new set of rules? I'll probably check it out tonight when I get home, but I'm curious *now* dagnabbit.

Still see no enforcers

 Lansirill wrote:

So, is BFGFAQ2010 what is currently available from Games Workshop, is it a set of updates to those rules, or is it a complete new set of rules? I'll probably check it out tonight when I get home, but I'm curious *now* dagnabbit.

It's a set of updates to those rules and includes things from BFGM that didn't make it into Armada, along with stats for things like Horus' flagship, fleet rules for the fleets of all four chaos gods, Venerable Battlebarges, SC varients, Battlefleet Bakka, etc.

These were mentioned on the BFG Yahoo Mailing list ?

If so, I should already have them.

Just an idea, now that GW has pulled the plug, maybe you could compile a BFG living rulebook with the updates and additional material.

BTW thank you for all the work you put into play testing and compiling the FAQ

 adamsouza wrote:
These were mentioned on the BFG Yahoo Mailing list ?

If so, I should already have them.

Just an idea, now that GW has pulled the plug, maybe you could compile a BFG living rulebook with the updates and additional material.

BTW thank you for all the work you put into play testing and compiling the FAQ

I'm still bugged though that Defiant was just reduced in Price: it's still broken, but there was too much resistance to increasing it to 4 lbs. BFG: Revised (which may or may not end up being a living rulebook, except they're trying to do it by vote and committee, which is leading to some VERY odd design decisions, including Chaos Light Cruisers) finally gave up and raised it to 3, (despite voting shenanigans like banning people on the opposing side for the duration of the votes) which does not make a lot of sense, but...

The problem with the top of the BFG community is there are too many competing personalities who don't agree which way the game should go (or fight over the interpretation of fluff or what makes different fleets tick. Picture if this board tried to make an edition of 40k by vote and committee). Unfortunately, following the thing with Jervis, most of the real designers left the game and didn't come back. Ray is the last one still involved that I know of.

'No moulds' huh? I wonder if that's just an excuse or whether they are throwing them out.

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
'No moulds' huh? I wonder if that's just an excuse or whether they are throwing them out.

If the lines are being discontinued it stands to reason that whatever molds remain are destroyed to avoid someone "misplacing" them.

Just so everyone knows, NAF has been told by Games Workshop that they can no longer produce Blood Bowl dice as they have for 11 years.

PhantomViper wrote:

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
'No moulds' huh? I wonder if that's just an excuse or whether they are throwing them out.

If the lines are being discontinued it stands to reason that whatever molds remain are destroyed to avoid someone "misplacing" them.

That never used to be the case. But then again, they stopped caring about biz and their older catalogues a long time ago.

 judgedoug wrote:
Just so everyone knows, NAF has been told by Games Workshop that they can no longer produce Blood Bowl dice as they have for 11 years.

Damn, I lost mine (both my regular set and NAF set) years ago, been waiting for a decent colour to renew my membership.

Are they making a 2013 colour?

timd wrote:

I'm hoping this will happen with the AdMech Light Cruiser. It has the same "Expected to dispatch in four weeks" message and the add to cart button, but you can't add it to your cart. Hoping they are waiting for a shipment from the UK.

More US website BFG weirdness...

Chaos Repulsive Grand Cruiser is back up but without the Add to Cart button. Guess I missed out on that one.

Was able to order 5 AdMech Light Cruisers today (but not 6). Now its back to not sufficient stock.

T