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Made in us
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord





In My Lab

Assuming BS3+, +1 to-hit and to-wound, it would still take 8 auto guns in rapid fire range to do one wound.

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
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Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter




That's if we keep our army wide 4++, which is likely gone according to the leaks. Also, this applies to EVERY shooting attack. So Grenade Launchers with Krak rounds are now hitting on 3s, and wound on 2s. Or their ACs now kill us extremely well. Missiles?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/12/03 21:35:54


 
   
Made in us
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord





In My Lab

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
That's if we keep our army wide 4++, which is likely gone according to the leaks.
Invuln save is irrelevant to that math.

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in ro
Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter




See edits, I don't know why I didn't just make a new post.

Be honest, if Custodes had been given a +1 to wound on shooting ability you'd be way happier than the doctrines we've been given.
   
Made in at
Longtime Dakkanaut




FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
See edits, I don't know why I didn't just make a new post.

Be honest, if Custodes had been given a +1 to wound on shooting ability you'd be way happier than the doctrines we've been given.


Maybe, but that really depends on the remaining Katas and shield host abilities. Also depends on whether we are keeping the 4++

Which honestly if the leak is true and our normal infantry does not get one extra wound, I can't see how they would justify removing the 4++.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





Lebanon NH

Honestly? I just want really simple rules at this point.

I know I know, that's pretty much against the "spirit" of 9th edition and all that... but I was hoping that whatever new stuff we got was just nice and simple, easy to remember, didn't require a lot of fiddling with the be effective.

I'm not so much against the new kata thing, but right now it seems like: "okay, pick three things, now order those things, now pick one thing out of two, now remember that for next time because it will be on the test, now go back to your first choice..."

And the end result is like:

"Now your opponent misses one more time. Congrats!"

Like, it seems we are getting to the same place as we would if we kept our stuff nice and simple, with a few little bumps and adjustments here and there... only instead of making it super easy to be effective they are putting it behind a wall of nonsense that you have to memorize first.

I know, I know, I just need to wait until the dex is released, and then things will look different. Just wanted to vent a little is all.

Funny thing is: I generally LIKE 9th edition!
   
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Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter




Well, good news then, because the new game change leak has them basically forcing objective camping to the back, and now you play secondaries. The leak from Auspex Tactics, and I only skimmed the video, seems to indicate they are making primaries less important, thus trying to negate the importance of killiness?

But the secondaries are kinda worthless for Custodes, so this would be an overall net nerf to us.

All I want is a massive across the board points drop now.

Guardians should cost roughly the same as Bladeguard, and Terminators slightly more. Bikes should be about 60ppm, given we may be losing our 4++.
This is basically the only thing I can hope for now, is a massive points drop.
   
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Fresh-Faced New User




FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
That's if we keep our army wide 4++, which is likely gone according to the leaks. Also, this applies to EVERY shooting attack. So Grenade Launchers with Krak rounds are now hitting on 3s, and wound on 2s. Or their ACs now kill us extremely well. Missiles?


4++ is still there
   
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Fresh-Faced New User




sadly, a mission custodes likely to fail
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Never Forget Isstvan!






Thats more of a nerf to single infantry units being able to score points very easily for very little investment (i.e. lictors/pyrovores).

If you have 3 models in a troops unit you still succeed on a 4 or lower, and a 5 man squad of troops cannot fail.

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Regular Dakkanaut




 Eihnlazer wrote:
Thats more of a nerf to single infantry units being able to score points very easily for very little investment (i.e. lictors/pyrovores).

If you have 3 models in a troops unit you still succeed on a 4 or lower, and a 5 man squad of troops cannot fail.


If you can still only attempt it once per turn, it does mean its basically unusable if you have a chance of failing it, so everyone that does it will have to be 5-strong troops or 6-strong others.
   
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Long-Range Black Templar Land Speeder Pilot






leerm02 wrote:
Honestly? I just want really simple rules at this point.

I know I know, that's pretty much against the "spirit" of 9th edition and all that... but I was hoping that whatever new stuff we got was just nice and simple, easy to remember, didn't require a lot of fiddling with the be effective.

I'm not so much against the new kata thing, but right now it seems like: "okay, pick three things, now order those things, now pick one thing out of two, now remember that for next time because it will be on the test, now go back to your first choice..."

And the end result is like:

"Now your opponent misses one more time. Congrats!"

Like, it seems we are getting to the same place as we would if we kept our stuff nice and simple, with a few little bumps and adjustments here and there... only instead of making it super easy to be effective they are putting it behind a wall of nonsense that you have to memorize first.

I know, I know, I just need to wait until the dex is released, and then things will look different. Just wanted to vent a little is all.

Funny thing is: I generally LIKE 9th edition!


I feel the same way, I enjoy 9th edition but would love a simpler rule instead of a complex fiddly rule. One of the best parts of playing my Custodes army currently is that it's simple and straightforward and easy to remember. The Katas look interesting but the "one-more-thing-to-remember" design of 40k isn't something I care for.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





I think Custodes should get like double obsec on everyone with like a 5+++ default.
Make them fit their theme and wash everything out in the point crunch.

Slightly joking.
   
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Raging-on-the-Inside Blood Angel Sergeant





Luton, England

I think its quite possible that we get a rule that makes all models (perhaps infantry models) count double for objective scoring but perhaps we would then lose armywide obsec and just get it on our troops. It would be nice to incentivise guard a bit and army wide obsec is a little obnoxious for the opponent.

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Nah, sisters already likely have Obsec as troops, and I'd rather pay 100 points for objective campers than 150. That's just me.

What good would it be if we suddenly lost our main defensive buff, but gained the ability to camp objectives better? 9th is about killing and moving. The days of us camping out and just winning on primaries is kinda over now.
   
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Bath

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Nah, sisters already likely have Obsec as troops, and I'd rather pay 100 points for objective campers than 150. That's just me.

What good would it be if we suddenly lost our main defensive buff, but gained the ability to camp objectives better? 9th is about killing and moving. The days of us camping out and just winning on primaries is kinda over now.


Will they give sisters obsec, though? They might well just give custodes obsec, as a way to incentivise the use of cusodes guard ( ie. choose between cheaper, non obsec units or more expensive guys with obsec/super obsec)

On the other hand, the references to fielding whole detachments of sisters do imply that thier is no "1:1 ratio" rule or similar restriction to how many you have, which is good.

also, i called the sisters troops thing like a month ago when the box contents were pushed out, yay me!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/12/06 12:41:35


Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an` Tommy, 'ow's yer soul? "
But it's " Thin red line of 'eroes " when the drums begin to roll
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
O it's " Thin red line of 'eroes, " when the drums begin to roll.
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Damsel of the Lady




xerxeskingofking wrote:
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Nah, sisters already likely have Obsec as troops, and I'd rather pay 100 points for objective campers than 150. That's just me.

What good would it be if we suddenly lost our main defensive buff, but gained the ability to camp objectives better? 9th is about killing and moving. The days of us camping out and just winning on primaries is kinda over now.


Will they give sisters obsec, though? They might well just give custodes obsec, as a way to incentivise the use of cusodes guard ( ie. choose between cheaper, non obsec units or more expensive guys with obsec/super obsec)

On the other hand, the references to fielding whole detachments of sisters do imply that thier is no "1:1 ratio" rule or similar restriction to how many you have, which is good.

also, i called the sisters troops thing like a month ago when the box contents were pushed out, yay me!


They could have a 1:1 rule when it's not an ANATHEMA PSYKANA detachment or whatever their new keyword is.

I imagine Sisters troops have ObSec as do the Custodians. With our resident leaker (thank you!) saying 4++ stays, then I also think 3++ on the shields pulls through.
   
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Veteran Knight Baron in a Crusader




leerm02 wrote:
Honestly? I just want really simple rules at this point.

it seems like: "okay, pick three things, now order those things, now pick one thing out of two, now remember that for next time because it will be on the test, now go back to your first choice..."

And the end result is like: "Now your opponent misses one more time. Congrats!"


You're not alone. I had just bought about 1500 points of Custodes before these leaks. After reading the new rules, my Custodes are still in their boxes and might get ebayed for a different army. I have no interest in doing that much bookkeeping and homework during a game of 40k.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





Lebanon NH

Yeah, I was on a big "fully converted custom faction" kick with my custodes, making all these crazy conversions and everything in anticipation for the new codex... and now I'm just not even working on them :-(

I'm really hoping we are overreacting to all this, but I also really want to stress that I don't want to play "Golden Mechanicus" either.
   
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Mysterious Techpriest






As someone that actually DOES play AdMech and Custodes.. I so so so so so can second that statement.
Playing Custodes is such joy im comparison to... that other thing.-

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I do think it would be hilarious if the Katas were allowed to be done by the Mechs. A Telemon locking down it's target in melee would be a great move.
   
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Longtime Dakkanaut




FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I do think it would be hilarious if the Katas were allowed to be done by the Mechs. A Telemon locking down it's target in melee would be a great move.


I'd really be somewhat disappointed if they didn't benefit the dreadnoughts, cause that sounds awsome.

It's obviously too early to say, but I'm really curius how the "optimal" lists for us will shift with the new codex. Right now it's shadowkeepers with a lot of dreads, which is cool but I hope the codex will open up new playstyles. Make terminators great again
   
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I don't see the dreads getting core, or Obsec. Or the 4++. So I'd be surprised if the super-Naut lists of 8th survive into late 9th.

Ofcouse I could be completely wrong, and am likely far off the mark, but I don't think GW has shown a fondness for games dominated by heavy support. Like, at all. Elite Heavy, yes. But Heavy support? I honestly can't think of a single competitive list that is heavy support focused. I don't think the Triple Telemon list will survive.

But like I said, I likely am far off the mark.
   
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Longtime Dakkanaut




FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I don't see the dreads getting core, or Obsec. Or the 4++. So I'd be surprised if the super-Naut lists of 8th survive into late 9th.

Ofcouse I could be completely wrong, and am likely far off the mark, but I don't think GW has shown a fondness for games dominated by heavy support. Like, at all. Elite Heavy, yes. But Heavy support? I honestly can't think of a single competitive list that is heavy support focused. I don't think the Triple Telemon list will survive.

But like I said, I likely am far off the mark.


Well, both the Galatus and Achillus dreads already have core right now. Only the Telemon doesn't have it, but that I can live with.
   
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Is that confirmed that it's carrying over? I mean I trust you, I just hadn't heard that and the lack of confirmation had killed my hopes.
   
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The Frozen North

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I honestly can't think of a single competitive list that is heavy support focused.

You ever hear of Grey Knights? Or Dark Eldar?

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FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Is that confirmed that it's carrying over? I mean I trust you, I just hadn't heard that and the lack of confirmation had killed my hopes.


So far in 9th edition they have removed CORE from exactly ONE unit, which was the admech laschicken, and have not done any major rebalancing of the FW datasheets, only updating keywords and army wide rules.

Space marines dreads are also CORE, so its rather unlikely that they will remove it from ours, regular or FW

Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an` Tommy, 'ow's yer soul? "
But it's " Thin red line of 'eroes " when the drums begin to roll
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
O it's " Thin red line of 'eroes, " when the drums begin to roll.
"Tommy", Rudyard Kipling
Exporitor force kappa-Tercia 500pts Coven of XVth 1000pts
Western Host 1000 pts Watch Company Rho 750pts
 
   
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I think, for obsec, they should just make every model worth its Wounds characteristics so a Custodes would be 3 models, a space marine 2, and a guardsman 1. Then vehicles and monsters could threaten objectives in a way that would realistically represent their threat value. But still keeping troops as overriding any non-troops objective claimers regardless of model/wound count.

Rejoice in the coming oblivion!

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That... on first glance, doesnt feel that bad.
It gives elite armies a advantage in staying power since hordes deplete faster, but then again, with the recent changes elite armies get punished on the action front.
So...

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Report bugs here:
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Yeah, that means a squad of 5 bikes is basically Morty in terms of shifting. That seems broken. Also, that would need a massive points shift I think.
   
 
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