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In the age of Scat Bikers, Tau's gundam wing, hell even the firewarriors, Necron warriors with 4+RP and what not the Ork boyz seem to have fallen pretty far to the wayside. Back in the day the old Ork Mantra was "Boyz Before Toyz" but now? I don't think that strategy is feasible, even with the new Orkurion that gives boyz fearless which negates the problem of mob rule they are still to fragile a bit to expensive for the current META where S6 is throw around like candy and weapons with 3 or more shots each are becoming standard. All of this teamed with the poor game design (IE GW designers throwing on Weapon AP to justify points cost or to give it a slight buff) pretty much negates the orks basic armor save about 90%+ of the time.

Personally I believe that Orks should be base cost 5, they shouldn't pay to change weapons to shootas because they suck anyway, and that Eavy Armor should be a 2, at most 3pt upgrade.

Any suggestions besides this? or do you think boyz are fine as is?

SemperMortis wrote:Personally I believe that Orks should be base cost 5, they shouldn't pay to change weapons to shootas because they suck anyway, and that Eavy Armor should be a 2, at most 3pt upgrade.

Any suggestions besides this? or do you think boyz are fine as is?

If you make them 5 ppm, then you are asserting that an ork boy is points equivalent to an imperial guardsman with a lasgun.

Personally, I'm in favor of giving them a totally awesome formation that can be run at 1000 points or more.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Formation: Oi, lets go for a ride!

1 warboss on a bike
5 units of warbikers
10 units of boys

All units of boys may take a trukk for free. Upgrades must be purchased as normal.
All units gain objective secured.

I don't think trukk boyz are the answer, since I generally see those as bad. I think some other unique rule would benefit them more. Their main issue is surviving long enough to get into combat. Short of a battlewagon, that isn't easy. Therefore, either make them tougher or faster. To make things less broken, I'd go for the second option with a rule that goes something like this.

Stampede: In the shooting phase, any unit of boyz may run 2d6 rather than 1d6. However, on a roll of doubles, the unit deals 1d6 S4 AP- wounds to itself to simulate the disorganized orks trampling each other while trying to get to the fight. Wounds cannot be allocated to characters.

Maybe throw in some other penalties like they can only make snap shots in their next shooting phase.

Maybe make this a special rule in a formation or something, but I think giving them a better footslogging speed would make actual footslogging lists viable. Combine this with a waagh! and you've got yourself some speedy orks.

 Vitali Advenil wrote:
I don't think trukk boyz are the answer, since I generally see those as bad.

GW thought that rhino marines were the answer.

Yeah, but rhinos can't be glanced to death by bolter fire, is less prone to exploding, and their occupants are more likely to survive the explosion. Plus, a rhino is better armed. I never put boyz in trukks anymore since they're just going to get blown up, then fail their fear test and run away. Put things like MANz in them and you're fine.

 Vitali Advenil wrote:
Yeah, but rhinos can't be glanced to death by bolter fire, is less prone to exploding, and their occupants are more likely to survive the explosion. Plus, a rhino is better armed. I never put boyz in trukks anymore since they're just going to get blown up, then fail their fear test and run away. Put things like MANz in them and you're fine.

That's supposed to happen. Orks are supposed to blow up. A lot.

That's literally how orks reproduce themselves.

Orks are a horde army that's supposed to take heavy casualties, but overwhelm the enemy in the end...if they made poor tactical decisions.

Traditio wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:Personally I believe that Orks should be base cost 5, they shouldn't pay to change weapons to shootas because they suck anyway, and that Eavy Armor should be a 2, at most 3pt upgrade.

Any suggestions besides this? or do you think boyz are fine as is?

If you make them 5 ppm, then you are asserting that an ork boy is points equivalent to an imperial guardsman with a lasgun.

Personally, I'm in favor of giving them a totally awesome formation that can be run at 1000 points or more.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Formation: Oi, lets go for a ride!

1 warboss
2 units of ork bikers
10 units of boys with at least 15 boys in each unit

All units of boys may take a trukk for free. Upgrades must be purchased as normal.
All units gain objective secured.

So your answer to boyz sucking in the current meta is to give them a formation that fixes none of their problems, so if you want to field boyz at all you have to take your formation. Secondly none of the boyz will be able to ride in their Trukkz because the max size is 12in a trukk.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Traditio wrote:

 Vitali Advenil wrote:
Yeah, but rhinos can't be glanced to death by bolter fire, is less prone to exploding, and their occupants are more likely to survive the explosion. Plus, a rhino is better armed. I never put boyz in trukks anymore since they're just going to get blown up, then fail their fear test and run away. Put things like MANz in them and you're fine.

That's supposed to happen. Orks are supposed to blow up. A lot.

That's literally how orks reproduce themselves.

Orks are a horde army that's supposed to take heavy casualties, but overwhelm the enemy in the end...if they made poor tactical decisions.

This is a poorly thought out argument. Ork Boyz suck because they need to suck and lose half their army because...reasons. Not trying to be provocative but I want to make them competitive not fit into GW's fluff that Orks always lose to the hero's, the Space elves and the Terminators.

Trukks are too much of a deathtrap, though, and it spreads them too thin. You blow up a truk with 10 boys, you'll lose on average 4-ish, 3-ish with heavy armor. That leaves a squad of 6 or 7 boyz. Those boyz aren't going to get any work done; they're just too small of a unit to do any real damage. Honestly, I don't take squads of anything less than 15. I feel even 10 boyz isn't much of a threat.

And it's true that orks can take heavy casualties, but you should be all means avoid it. Don't be afraid of throwing some of your boyz into the fire, but if you spread them all out in trukks, they'll never be able to get to the enemy. That's why an option like giving them a footslogging speedboost would be beneficial. They can still make use of cover and won't explode when a S5 weapon looks at them funny. Mass trukks just doesn't work well for them.

SemperMortis wrote:So your answer to boyz sucking in the current meta is to give them a formation that fixes none of their problems, so if you want to field boyz at all you have to take your formation. Secondly none of the boyz will be able to ride in their Trukkz because the max size is 12in a trukk.

1. I edited the formation. See the original post to which you responded.

2. It's directly analogous to the battle company granting free rhinos.

Orks, like all armies, should have determinate strengths and weaknesses. Those weaknesses should be exploitable.

This is a poorly thought out argument. Ork Boyz suck because they need to suck and lose half their army because...reasons. Not trying to be provocative but I want to make them competitive not fit into GW's fluff that Orks always lose to the hero's, the Space elves and the Terminators.

They suck and they need to suck individually because you can get a bunch of them for a relatively small number of points per model. That's the trade off. You're not playing marines, eldar or necrons.The answer isn't to make boys stronger. The answer is to let you bring more stuff so that, even if you sustain heavy losses, you still have the numbers to win.

Like the Russians.

Reverse Battle company. Free Ork Mob for every Battlewagon you purchase.

 Vitali Advenil wrote:
Trukks are too much of a deathtrap, though, and it spreads them too thin. You blow up a truk with 10 boys, you'll lose on average 4-ish, 3-ish with heavy armor. That leaves a squad of 6 or 7 boyz. Those boyz aren't going to get any work done; they're just too small of a unit to do any real damage. Honestly, I don't take squads of anything less than 15. I feel even 10 boyz isn't much of a threat.

And it's true that orks can take heavy casualties, but you should be all means avoid it. Don't be afraid of throwing some of your boyz into the fire, but if you spread them all out in trukks, they'll never be able to get to the enemy. That's why an option like giving them a footslogging speedboost would be beneficial. They can still make use of cover and won't explode when a S5 weapon looks at them funny. Mass trukks just doesn't work well for them.

Then don't put the orks in the free trukks. Use the trukks as mobile cover and footslog the boys. Support with artillery.

Ten units of boyz is kind of ridiculous, though. Hell, I've talked crap about the current formations that require only six units of boyz because, like I've said, small ork squads don't work.

Also, I agree with you that ork boyz shouldn't be as strong as a marine, necron warrior, etc,. but I don't think the solution is just taking a gakload of them. With taking that many, you're forced to keep them in tiny squads if you want to put them in the trukks. The solution is giving them their own thing that would set them apart with a different play style. Keep them fragile, but make them faster to give them a bigger threat range. The issue is the only current ways to make them faster are with trukks, which are deathtraps which limit squad sizes, or battlewagons, which are expensive. Upgrade their footspeed and that solves a lot of their issues.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Traditio wrote:


Then don't put the orks in the free trukks. Use the trukks as mobile cover and footslog the boys. Support with artillery.

Alright, that could work out a bit better I suppose, but 10 units of boyz is still insane. Plus, this still doesn't fix the issue of speed. Plus, if the trukks are dedicated transports, I'm pretty sure the boyz have to start out in them.

 Vitali Advenil wrote:
Ten units of boyz is kind of ridiculous, though. Hell, I've talked crap about the current formations that require only six units of boyz because, like I've said, small ork squads don't work.

Also, I agree with you that ork boyz shouldn't be as strong as a marine, necron warrior, etc,. but I don't think the solution is just taking a gakload of them.

That's literally how an ork army is supposed to play. Don't you read the stuff in italics?

Keep them fragile, but make them faster to give them a bigger threat range.

That potentially would make Orks too much of a threat in a way that would be strongly imbalanced against shooting armies.

Traditio wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:So your answer to boyz sucking in the current meta is to give them a formation that fixes none of their problems, so if you want to field boyz at all you have to take your formation. Secondly none of the boyz will be able to ride in their Trukkz because the max size is 12in a trukk.

1. I edited the formation. See the original post to which you responded.

2. It's directly analogous to the battle company granting free rhinos.

Orks, like all armies, should have determinate strengths and weaknesses. Those weaknesses should be exploitable.

This is a poorly thought out argument. Ork Boyz suck because they need to suck and lose half their army because...reasons. Not trying to be provocative but I want to make them competitive not fit into GW's fluff that Orks always lose to the hero's, the Space elves and the Terminators.

They suck and they need to suck individually because you can get a bunch of them for a relatively small number of points per model. That's the trade off. You're not playing marines, eldar or necrons.The answer isn't to make boys stronger. The answer is to let you bring more stuff so that, even if you sustain heavy losses, you still have the numbers to win.

Like the Russians.

Except that in the example you just gave, the SM player doesn't take rhinos, he takes Razorbacks and upgrades the guns a bit or he takes drop pods which are infinitely better then trukkz. If I could drop 100 Boyz in your backfield in little squads without having to worry about them blowing up,dying to Deep strike rules or anything like that, hell yeah I would take that option. But trukkz suck compared to Razorbacks or Drop pods so your example isn't that fair.

You don't really get a ton of boyz for cheap because when you factor in their ability to survive, your paying for it down the line when your unit loses in CC because you only had 3 models get into B2B.

Vitali Advenil wrote:Alright, that could work out a bit better I suppose, but 10 units of boyz is still insane.

It really isn't. It's a 600 point commitment. The entire formation I proposed is less than 1000 points without upgrades.

Plus, this still doesn't fix the issue of speed. Plus, if the trukks are dedicated transports, I'm pretty sure the boyz have to start out in them.

No, that's not how dedicated transports work. Dedicated transport means that only that unit can start out in the vehicle. They don't have to, though.

Traditio wrote:

Vitali Advenil wrote:Alright, that could work out a bit better I suppose, but 10 units of boyz is still insane.

It really isn't. It's a 600 point commitment. The entire formation I proposed is less than 1000 points without upgrades.

Plus, this still doesn't fix the issue of speed. Plus, if the trukks are dedicated transports, I'm pretty sure the boyz have to start out in them.

No, that's not how dedicated transports work. Dedicated transport means that only that unit can start out in the vehicle. They don't have to, though.

and a squad of boyz without a nob with a Power Klaw isn't a threat. So your 600 point commitment realistically just jumped to 850. And having played games with that many boyz before (Green tide) it is a massive pain in the butt and slows the game down tremendously.

How about if orks had the ability to run and assault in the same turn, or else, auto-run 6 inches in lieu of assaulting?

In addition to the free trukks, that is.

Traditio wrote:
How about if orks had the ability to auto-run 6 inches?

That would help a tiny bit but your still not addressing the problem that they get shot off the table regardless. And a 6in Run doesn't change the game at all in general. Turn 1: Orks get shot or orks move up 6, run D6 (or 6) . Turn 2 They get shot at again or if they got to go first they call waaagh, Move 6, run 6 and attempt an assault.

I want Ork Boyz able to survive or at least not suck as much. and 6in run isn't helping that as much as necessary

to update for your update

Orks already have the ability to Run AND assault. In most armies it happens on turn 2 (waaagh) But the new, overly garbage Orkurion with ghaz allows you to run and assault on the 1st turn but its not that big of a deal and still doesn't fix how garbage ork boys are.

3 fixes for Boyz:

1. Bring back the choppa rule that no armor gets better then a 4+ save.

2. Bring back the "Mob up" rule that said fleeing units can join non fleeing units if they pass a leadership roll.

3. Bring back Leadership based on mob size,

Traditio wrote:

 Vitali Advenil wrote:
Ten units of boyz is kind of ridiculous, though. Hell, I've talked crap about the current formations that require only six units of boyz because, like I've said, small ork squads don't work.

Also, I agree with you that ork boyz shouldn't be as strong as a marine, necron warrior, etc,. but I don't think the solution is just taking a gakload of them.

That's literally how an ork army is supposed to play. Don't you read the stuff in italics?

I don't care how GW thinks my army is "supposed" to play; it just doesn't work. Yes, we can take more models than any other army, but doing that blindly will only result in failure. The italics are for flavor only, and should have absolutely no impact on how you take your army.

Traditio wrote:

 Vitali Advenil wrote:
Keep them fragile, but make them faster to give them a bigger threat range.

That potentially would make Orks too much of a threat in a way that would be strongly imbalanced against shooting armies.

I disagree. They'd still be very squishy, and it would actually let orks get into goddamn combat against gunlines. Orks vs gunlines should be a thrilling battle of seeing how many orks the gunline can kill before the orks get there, and then having to deal with the broken line. It should not be the ork player praying that he actually manages to get a single unit into CC so the fight wasn't a complete waste.

SemperMortis wrote:I want Ork Boyz able to survive or at least not suck as much. and 6in run isn't helping that as much as necessary

Actually, it would be more like, if my fix were proposed:

Turn 1: Wall of trukks advance. Orks autorun 6. Half the trukks explode.
Turn 2: Wall of trukks advance. Orks autorun 6. Moar trukks explode.

You won't have enough orks on turn 3 to charge?

Traditio wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:I want Ork Boyz able to survive or at least not suck as much. and 6in run isn't helping that as much as necessary

Actually, it would be more like, if my fix were proposed:

Turn 1: Wall of trukks advance. Orks autorun 6. Half the trukks explode.
Turn 2: Wall of trukks advance. Orks autorun 6. Moar trukks explode.

You won't have enough orks on turn 3 to charge?

No you wouldn't for several reasons, indirect fire (IDF), the fact that trukkz don't block LOS only provide a 5+ cover save (rule specifically shooting through enemy units) and lastly, depending on how far those boyz are from those trukks the exploding trukks could take out 2-3 boyz in each little blob forcing a morale test and more dead boyz through the stupid Mob Rule.

Traditio wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:I want Ork Boyz able to survive or at least not suck as much. and 6in run isn't helping that as much as necessary

Actually, it would be more like, if my fix were proposed:

Turn 1: Wall of trukks advance. Orks autorun 6. Half the trukks explode.
Turn 2: Wall of trukks advance. Orks autorun 6. Moar trukks explode.

You won't have enough orks on turn 3 to charge?

Best case scenario, sure, they can charge, but in my experience, squads of 10 boyz will not do much work against any army that isn't guard or tau. Hell, at times, even my squads of 20 or so orks, with 'eavy armor, don't do so well against a squad of marines- not until the powerklaws come in, at least. Honestly, this formation idea isn't horrible, it's just the scale. Town it down to like 3 squads of boyz that get free trukks, and you have to take a warboss on a bike and two bike squads. Then it could have some promise.

SemperMortis wrote:No you wouldn't for several reasons, indirect fire (IDF), the fact that trukkz don't block LOS only provide a 5+ cover save (rule specifically shooting through enemy units) and lastly, depending on how far those boyz are from those trukks the exploding trukks could take out 2-3 boyz in each little blob forcing a morale test and more dead boyz through the stupid Mob Rule.

1. Trukks aren't big enough to block LOS?

2. Keep the boys at least 4 inches behind the trukks.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Vitali Advenil wrote:Best case scenario, sure, they can charge, but in my experience, squads of 10 boyz will not do much work against any army that isn't guard or tau. Hell, at times, even my squads of 20 or so orks, with 'eavy armor, don't do so well against a squad of marines- not until the powerklaws come in, at least. Honestly, this formation idea isn't horrible, it's just the scale. Town it down to like 3 squads of boyz that get free trukks, and you have to take a warboss on a bike and two bike squads. Then it could have some promise.

A squad of 10 boyz with a nob and power claw is going to eat a tactical squad alive in close combat.

Traditio wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:No you wouldn't for several reasons, indirect fire (IDF), the fact that trukkz don't block LOS only provide a 5+ cover save (rule specifically shooting through enemy units) and lastly, depending on how far those boyz are from those trukks the exploding trukks could take out 2-3 boyz in each little blob forcing a morale test and more dead boyz through the stupid Mob Rule.

1. Trukks aren't big enough to block LOS?

2. Keep the boys at least 4 inches behind the trukks.

Trukks have so many holes in them that no they don't block LOS like Rhinos or other tanks/transports would. Furthermore theres no way to block LOS for every enemy unit so they are still sniping boyz out of the squads and remember they only need to kill 3 boyz to force a morale test and boom even more dead boyz, by the time these guys get into combat and lose 1-2 models from over watch they will not be able to do their intended task.

Trukks have a lot of empty space, so the only way to obscure the boyz would be to press right up against the trukks and hope the enemy it on enough of an angle that they can't see the boyz' feet underneath.

If they're 4 inches behind then you can easily see more than 50% of the mob.

SemperMortis wrote:Trukks have so many holes in them that no they don't block LOS like Rhinos or other tanks/transports would. Furthermore theres no way to block LOS for every enemy unit so they are still sniping boyz out of the squads and remember they only need to kill 3 boyz to force a morale test and boom even more dead boyz, by the time these guys get into combat and lose 1-2 models from over watch they will not be able to do their intended task.

Ok. I thought of a hilarious idea:

To my formation proposals, I add the following special rule:

Orks are the trickiest and the sneakiest: At the beginning of the game, choose one model (may not be a LOW or an HQ choice) that your opponent controls. All of your units of boys and their trukks gain all of the special rules possessed by that unit.

If you play against marines, you just got ATSKNF and chapter tactics.

Edit: And combat squads!

SemperMortis wrote:

Traditio wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:No you wouldn't for several reasons, indirect fire (IDF), the fact that trukkz don't block LOS only provide a 5+ cover save (rule specifically shooting through enemy units) and lastly, depending on how far those boyz are from those trukks the exploding trukks could take out 2-3 boyz in each little blob forcing a morale test and more dead boyz through the stupid Mob Rule.

1. Trukks aren't big enough to block LOS?

2. Keep the boys at least 4 inches behind the trukks.

Trukks have so many holes in them that no they don't block LOS like Rhinos or other tanks/transports would. Furthermore theres no way to block LOS for every enemy unit so they are still sniping boyz out of the squads and remember they only need to kill 3 boyz to force a morale test and boom even more dead boyz, by the time these guys get into combat and lose 1-2 models from over watch they will not be able to do their intended task.

A squad of 10 boyz with a nob and power claw is going to eat a tactical squad alive.

Standard Marine load out of a tactical squad, 1 sergeant with pistol CCW, 1 Missile Launcher, 1 Flamer and 7 bolters.

Overwatch, Wall of Death 2 wounds 1 dead Ork boy. Sergeant switches to bolter, so 8 bolters - 16 shots + ML = 2-3 hits 1-2 more dead boyz = 2-3 dead orks, so lets say 2

7 boyz left alive now keep that in mind. Marines strike first, 11 CC attacks 5-6 hits 2-3 wounds. 2-3 more dead boyz so lets say 2 for your scenario.

5 boyz left alive = 20 attacks 10 hits 5 wounds 1-2 dead Marines, Nob swings for 4 attacks 2 hits and 2 dead marines. Best case average scenario the Marines lose combat, and either stay in combat if they are unlucky, or best case they fall back and get to regroup and shoot the boyz off the table because they only have a couple models left.

So no, a 10 man tac squad EATS a 10 man Ork squad even with a Nob/PK because they should based purely on points costs.

SemperMortis wrote:Standard Marine load out of a tactical squad, 1 sergeant with pistol CCW, 1 Missile Launcher, 1 Flamer and 7 bolters.

Overwatch, Wall of Death 2 wounds 1 dead Ork boy. Sergeant switches to bolter, so 8 bolters - 16 shots + ML = 2-3 hits 1-2 more dead boyz = 2-3 dead orks, so lets say 2

7 boyz left alive now keep that in mind. Marines strike first, 11 CC attacks 5-6 hits 2-3 wounds. 2-3 more dead boyz so lets say 2 for your scenario.

5 boyz left alive = 20 attacks 10 hits 5 wounds 1-2 dead Marines, Nob swings for 4 attacks 2 hits and 2 dead marines. Best case average scenario the Marines lose combat, and either stay in combat if they are unlucky, or best case they fall back and get to regroup and shoot the boyz off the table because they only have a couple models left.

So no, a 10 man tac squad EATS a 10 man Ork squad even with a Nob/PK because they should based purely on points costs.

1. That fight is practically never going to happen. Combat squads is a thing.

2. It's not points comparable.

The fair comparison is 9 boys and a nob with power klaw (101 points) vs. 6 marines (5 with bolters and 1 with a rocket launcher) (99 points)

Orks charge. Marines overwatch: 10 X 1/6 X 1/2 casualties (10/12) are dealt, presupposing your opponent isn't using IF chapter tactics. You should have 8 boys and a nob vs. those 6 marines.

Marines strike and deal 6 X 1/2 X 1/2 X 5/6 (30/24) casualties.

You strike with 7 boys and a nob.

Boys deal: 28 X 1/2 X 1/2 X 1/3 (28/12) casualties. Let's round that to 2 casualties.
The nob deals: 4 X 1/2 X 5/6 (20/12) casualties. Let's round that to 2 casualties.

At the end of that round you have 7 boys and a nob left, and I have 2 marines left. Unless I successfully fail the leadership test and don't get forced to remain in combat because of ATSKNF, on my turn, I remain locked in combat and can't shoot your boys.

Chances are, you should be able to kill my 2 tacs on my assault phase, unless I charge something else in.

Traditio wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:Standard Marine load out of a tactical squad, 1 sergeant with pistol CCW, 1 Missile Launcher, 1 Flamer and 7 bolters.

Overwatch, Wall of Death 2 wounds 1 dead Ork boy. Sergeant switches to bolter, so 8 bolters - 16 shots + ML = 2-3 hits 1-2 more dead boyz = 2-3 dead orks, so lets say 2

7 boyz left alive now keep that in mind. Marines strike first, 11 CC attacks 5-6 hits 2-3 wounds. 2-3 more dead boyz so lets say 2 for your scenario.

5 boyz left alive = 20 attacks 10 hits 5 wounds 1-2 dead Marines, Nob swings for 4 attacks 2 hits and 2 dead marines. Best case average scenario the Marines lose combat, and either stay in combat if they are unlucky, or best case they fall back and get to regroup and shoot the boyz off the table because they only have a couple models left.

So no, a 10 man tac squad EATS a 10 man Ork squad even with a Nob/PK because they should based purely on points costs.

1. That fight is practically never going to happen. Combat squads is a thing.

2. It's not points comparable.

The fair comparison is 9 boys and a nob with power klaw (101 points) vs. 6 marines (5 with bolters and 1 with a rocket launcher) (99 points)

Orks charge. Marines overwatch: 10 X 1/6 X 1/2 casualties (10/12) are dealt, presupposing your opponent isn't using IF chapter tactics. You should have 8 boys and a nob vs. those 6 marines.

Marines strike and deal 6 X 1/2 X 1/2 X 5/6 (30/24) casualties.

You strike with 7 boys and a nob.

Boys deal: 28 X 1/2 X 1/2 X 1/3 (28/12) casualties. Let's round that to 2 casualties.
The nob deals: 4 X 1/2 X 5/6 (20/12) casualties. Let's round that to 2 casualties.

At the end of that round you have 7 boys and a nob left, and I have 2 marines left. Unless I successfully fail the leadership test and don't get forced to remain in combat because of ATSKNF, on my turn, I remain locked in combat and can't shoot your boys.

Chances are, you should be able to kill my 2 tacs on my assault phase, unless I charge something else in.

So those 9 Ork boyz and Nob just walked up the field without getting hurt? no, they took a 30pt trukk with a 5pt ram. So throw in those extra 3 Marines into the equation. Also YOU said tactical squad you didn't say combat squad. If your going to change the useless scenario thats your prerogative but don't mess with the numbers after the fact.

Go take an Ork Trukk army and play it against most SM armies, who wins? if you think its Orks your lying to yourself.

getting back on topic, none of the suggestions you have made have helped in any way, in fact many are already available to orks and haven't helped make the Orks anymore competitive.

Trukks don't work and so many tournaments and Bat Reps have shown as much.

I think that either a point reduction or an increase in durability is needed in order to make them playable.