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 BrotherGecko wrote:

 Unusual Suspect wrote:
Some of the largest and broadest themes within the Imperium of the WH40k universe is that of "pride goes before the fall" and "the best laid plans o' mice an' men go oft awry."

Though Guilliman's intentions may be good, I wouldn't put it past GW to throw a "these new and improved space marines are showing some oddities in their mental and physical stability..." in ways that only someone 10000+ years old and who lived through Terra might recognize to be associated with the likes of Thunder Warriors.

The NuMarines could easily end up in the middle ground between Thunder Warriors, Custodes, and Space Marines - more difficult to produce than Space Marines, but not as much as Custodes; more powerful than Space Marines, but not as much as Custodes and Thunder Warriors; more stable than Thunder Warriors, but less stable than Space Marines and Custodes.

As a side note, the integration of NuMarines into the Space Wolves seems like it would present some serious lore issues (though it really is one of the few ways that Chapter has to return to its former strength).

Sure they could go that route but it wouldn't make much sense.

If the Imperium has the resources to send Nu-marines to reinforce the ranks of the beleaguered and out numbered Astartes that means that Nu-marines are logistically easier to produce than Astartes. There would never be a reason to use Astartes ever again, just let them slowly be phased out because they are obviously too difficult to make.

Its like the movie Soldier.

Furthermore, unless the starter plaguemarines are as big as nu-marines then chaos players can be secure in knowing that they will be playing littler angry baddie marines of the setting.

Maybe these Nu Marines are clones? Or something like clones.

Vat grown soldiers with blank slates to imprint doctrines and such into. More cost effective than marines with similar power, but with some sort of down-side.... there is always one.

 Carnikang wrote:
I can't wait to see the first of these Nu-Marines broken/corrupted/fall to Chaos.

HYDRA DOMINATUS

What makes you think they aren't already?

The development is happening and no amount of 'the sky is falling!' will change that. I'm seeing a huge number of people not even trying to like it, then inventing all sorts of justifications for why, 100%, 40k will now suck and they will hate it. Which once again leaves me impressed at just how hard people will work to ruin their own enjoyment.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
The development is happening and no amount of 'the sky is falling!' will change that. I'm seeing a huge number of people not even trying to like it, then inventing all sorts of justifications for why, 100%, 40k will now suck and they will hate it. Which once again leaves me impressed at just how hard people will work to ruin their own enjoyment.

People will react according to their bias' and fears. Human nature.

 Crimson Devil wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
The development is happening and no amount of 'the sky is falling!' will change that. I'm seeing a huge number of people not even trying to like it, then inventing all sorts of justifications for why, 100%, 40k will now suck and they will hate it. Which once again leaves me impressed at just how hard people will work to ruin their own enjoyment.

People will react according to their bias' and fears. Human nature.

Which I understand, but when it comes to creating an entire narrative to justify a viewpoint that is solely detrimental to it's holder I find things a bit silly.

Happens in politics all the time.

numarines, sigmarines, guillimarines. doesent really bother me and my totally awesomes White Scar biker army!

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 Crimson Devil wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
The development is happening and no amount of 'the sky is falling!' will change that. I'm seeing a huge number of people not even trying to like it, then inventing all sorts of justifications for why, 100%, 40k will now suck and they will hate it. Which once again leaves me impressed at just how hard people will work to ruin their own enjoyment.

People will react according to their bias' and fears. Human nature.

Which I understand, but when it comes to creating an entire narrative to justify a viewpoint that is solely detrimental to it's holder I find things a bit silly.

I'm convinced people here just have a thing for crying and moaning. Like it's their side hobby.

*biases - no apostrophe needed.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 Crimson Devil wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
The development is happening and no amount of 'the sky is falling!' will change that. I'm seeing a huge number of people not even trying to like it, then inventing all sorts of justifications for why, 100%, 40k will now suck and they will hate it. Which once again leaves me impressed at just how hard people will work to ruin their own enjoyment.

People will react according to their bias' and fears. Human nature.

Which I understand, but when it comes to creating an entire narrative to justify a viewpoint that is solely detrimental to it's holder I find things a bit silly.

If they just made bigger space marine models then I would be vaguely annoyed but probably on board. They took the worst path to their goal from my point of view. As a consumer I can choose not get on board with this decision and keep my Tau and Necrons and HH Iron Warriors, while I shoot to rehome my Dark Angels. I can just not like 40k space marines anymore and join the ranks of a lot of people who have never liked space marines.

Its pretty simple. I then can sit on my highest horse and say nu-marines are for diaper babies lol.

 BrotherGecko wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 Crimson Devil wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
The development is happening and no amount of 'the sky is falling!' will change that. I'm seeing a huge number of people not even trying to like it, then inventing all sorts of justifications for why, 100%, 40k will now suck and they will hate it. Which once again leaves me impressed at just how hard people will work to ruin their own enjoyment.

People will react according to their bias' and fears. Human nature.

Which I understand, but when it comes to creating an entire narrative to justify a viewpoint that is solely detrimental to it's holder I find things a bit silly.

If they just made bigger space marine models then I would be vaguely annoyed but probably on board. They took the worst path to their goal from my point of view. As a consumer I can choose not get on board with this decision and keep my Tau and Necrons and HH Iron Warriors, while I shoot to rehome my Dark Angels. I can just not like 40k space marines anymore and join the ranks of a lot of people who have never liked space marines.

Its pretty simple. I then can sit on my highest horse and say nu-marines are for diaper babies lol.

So, you like your Space Marine army. Numarines are released that you in no way have to use in your army at all. You now dislike the army you previously liked, despite it being the exact same army.

I don't think it matters how they did it. We have a simple decision, buy them or not. I'm leaning towards not. It was the same decision when GW changed the base size. Do it or don't.

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
numarines, sigmarines, guillimarines. doesent really bother me and my totally awesomes White Scar biker army!

here's something that should bother you... Jinx saves are proably a thing of the past. *walks off while the white scars player screams in terror* my work here is done*

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 BrotherGecko wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 Crimson Devil wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
The development is happening and no amount of 'the sky is falling!' will change that. I'm seeing a huge number of people not even trying to like it, then inventing all sorts of justifications for why, 100%, 40k will now suck and they will hate it. Which once again leaves me impressed at just how hard people will work to ruin their own enjoyment.

People will react according to their bias' and fears. Human nature.

Which I understand, but when it comes to creating an entire narrative to justify a viewpoint that is solely detrimental to it's holder I find things a bit silly.

If they just made bigger space marine models then I would be vaguely annoyed but probably on board. They took the worst path to their goal from my point of view. As a consumer I can choose not get on board with this decision and keep my Tau and Necrons and HH Iron Warriors, while I shoot to rehome my Dark Angels. I can just not like 40k space marines anymore and join the ranks of a lot of people who have never liked space marines.

Its pretty simple. I then can sit on my highest horse and say nu-marines are for diaper babies lol.

So, you like your Space Marine army. Numarines are released that you in no way have to use in your army at all. You now dislike the army you previously liked, despite it being the exact same army.

Its not the same though. Adeptus Astartes were mankind's premier fighting force. With Nu-marines that isn't the case anymore. Narrative is shot now, if I the exact same army I will need to get Nu-marines. Besides I actually dislike scale creep...in every game system.

 BrotherGecko wrote:
[snip for space]

Nope. Because you're basically assuming marines won't continue to follow their traditional geneseed based reproduction. Which is complete and utter pants-on-head bollocks.

Did anyone consider these guys may have flaws? Guilliman describes them in a grandiose way in the trailer... but of course he would, it's basically a propaganda speech. Thunder Warriors had a very short lifespan. What if these super marines are the same? What if they are too aggressive? There are a number of interesting ways GW could go with this without impacting sales (these guys will sell regardless). Schisms forming in the current chapters as some support super marines and some don't. Some see them as dangerous. Some may even try to sabotage the whole program. Power struggles on Terra as High Lords oppose Guilliman's megalomaniacal plan to re-conquer the galaxy. I see a lot of potential here for interesting storylines, of which none need be "the super marines are here, they replace all old marines and the galaxy is at peace".

 Mymearan wrote:
Did anyone consider these guys may have flaws? Guilliman describes them in a grandiose way in the trailer... but of course he would, it's basically a propaganda speech. Thunder Warriors had a very short lifespan. What if these super marines are the same? What if they are too aggressive? There are a number of interesting ways GW could go with this without impacting sales (these guys will sell regardless). Schisms forming in the current chapters as some support super marines and some don't. Some see them as dangerous. Some may even try to sabotage the whole program. Power struggles on Terra as High Lords oppose Guilliman's megalomaniacal plan to re-conquer the galaxy. I see a lot of potential here for interesting storylines, of which none need be "the super marines are here, they replace all old marines and the galaxy is at peace".

It could be true, we don't know yet. But this is exactly the sort of reason why people shouldn't freak out yet. I know, I know, internet, but still...

Sigh, pretty un happy about this, as someone with like 10,000 pts of Painted Blood Ravens/Blood Angels.

Guess they can live the rest of their lives out in glass cases. I detest this 'new marine' stuff.

Time to look into playing just 30k I suppose.

Tangential to this but I saw a whole lotta folk in the other thread repeating the claim that the Emperor created the Space Marines so Guilleman and Cawl making a spacer, marineier version was impossible, and I'm trying to figure out how they got this idea into their heads?

The Space Marine project was commissioned by the Emperor at around the same time that he was working on the Primarchs. He had little direct involvement except to suggest using His Primarch work to stabilise the organs. The rest of the project was the work of a bunch of regular humans working together to create the perfect complement to thunder armour (e.g. the sensory organs are redundant in power armour but Thunder Armour with its open helm would benefit greatly from a dude able to selectively filter his own hearing etc) and the resulting set of organs still bears the names of a couple of those otherwise lost geniuses (Lyman's Ear, Larraman's Organ) - the Emperor's personal handiwork, however, they are not.

 Mymearan wrote:
Did anyone consider these guys may have flaws? Guilliman describes them in a grandiose way in the trailer... but of course he would, it's basically a propaganda speech. Thunder Warriors had a very short lifespan. What if these super marines are the same? What if they are too aggressive? There are a number of interesting ways GW could go with this without impacting sales (these guys will sell regardless). Schisms forming in the current chapters as some support super marines and some don't. Some see them as dangerous. Some may even try to sabotage the whole program. Power struggles on Terra as High Lords oppose Guilliman's megalomaniacal plan to re-conquer the galaxy. I see a lot of potential here for interesting storylines, of which none need be "the super marines are here, they replace all old marines and the galaxy is at peace".

Totally agree, there's just not enough info yet. Just like the codex blurbs the trailer is hugely one sided. No doubt the Death guard version will go on and on about how unbeatable plague marines and there new toys are as well.

Spartan117xyz wrote:
I wonder if these new marines will have lower weapon and ballistic skill? The current marines have been fighting for a long time. Some for hundreds of years. These mega marines while physically superior are still technically green as grass.

Also. I wonder if then they will make mega terminators? While I'm behind that I hope they then put out some mega grey Knights (my main army) or I'm going to be rocking the smaller marines for a while

I doubt they will have lower physical and ability stats. But as you say they will probably be relatively green, so I could see them having slightly lower leadership or not having the ATSNKF rule or chapter tactics.

A few thoughts.

I wonder how long it will take for Super Marines to get their own codex: Legionnaire. Deathwatch, Sisters of Silence and Adpetus Custodes spring to mind. Of course, not everyone gets this treatment, of course.

Timmy buys the new Starter. He builds and paints his Dudesmen. Does he look at the smaller, less heroic Marines and find himself a tad disappointed? Wouldn't it be perfectly natural for him to want to continue with an entire force of Super Marines?
(Or will the Superines take the place of Terminators in the Starter?)

This leads me to wonder if Age of Gulliman is going to see an initial release schedule similar to AoS, substituting Submarines with Super Marines.

Super Marines also get around the idea of no female Space Marines. If part of the de-nastification of the Imperium is to get more players to identify with an heroic faction why not tap into female gamers at the same time? I mean people have asked for plastic Sisters of Battle for over a decade. What they didn't know they really wanted was SuperLadyMarines!! NuFeMarines? ;-)

Which could lead to new chapters or whatever they might call them?

Chaos Marines can easily get larger Dudesmen by Gift of their gods.

I'm happy we're getting NuMarines.

Yes I know that GW's eventual aim is to have these completely replace their full Marine line over time, but I'd much rather take an "Skrull Invasion" style change from the old to the new than a "Independence Day" style change.

Whatever else happens, I really hope they tell us what to call them sooner rather than later, and hopefully they decided to take their own IP seriously instead of naming them after a shade of blue.

Starcast?

I might've gone for "Stormtossed," but either or.

Stormborn? Draw in the GoT crowd?

I do hope they get a sensible name. Please let GW have moved past 'DarkBloodWolf' naming conventions.

Excellent. Done.

 Azreal13 wrote:

You're also making a lot of assumptions about what people are attracted to in the lore, I'd wager more than a few are drawn in by the primary colored, power armoured super humans kicking ass and taking names. In that regard, little looks set to change.

But that's part of the problem. Those people now feel cheated because their toys are no longer kick-assiest, name-takiest boys in town.

at least it will take a while before we see fully painted armies of the rescaled marines, im using this as an opportunity to have an end point to my army so i can finally get my painting finished without buying new things. As long as you don't mix and match i think an army will still look good and now our armies are on the way to being vintage.

my guess would be Indomatables. from whence we get the Indomadius crusade

 warboss wrote:
As the owner of over 10,000pts of painted marines (mostly 2nd and 3rd edition models) last I bothered to count them up, I support the move by GW. Would I have preferred just a new model role out to replace the 1998 tactical marine kit? Yeah, probably.

Current Tactical Marine kit was released 2013...