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 Virules wrote:
A warning to any fellow Chaos Daemon players who are excited about this release:

- Adds Exalted upgrade to give Greater Daemons a long-needed boost, except it costs 1 CP to pick only 1 upgrade and you can never pick the same upgrade more than once in matched play (and can't give it to named characters).
- Adds 12 new relics, except you can only ever have 1 of them in the army, it's only for an Exalted Greater Daemon, and only if your warlord is of the same Chaos god.
- Adds new stratagems, but almost all of them are terrible.
- Does not add any new army-wide rules, still only loci (which force your whole detachment to be mono-God).
- No new datasheets except those already released elsewhere previously.

In other words, same old lazy third-rate treatment from the GW Design Studio that Chaos Daemon players have been used to for all of 8th Ed.

I guess we can't all be Space Marines.

Agreed, it feels like someone looked over the rules as and went "meh, I like big gribblies, heres some stuff I think is cool while I play power level games and make whooshing noises while I move my stuff."

Dudeface wrote:

 Virules wrote:
A warning to any fellow Chaos Daemon players who are excited about this release:

- Adds Exalted upgrade to give Greater Daemons a long-needed boost, except it costs 1 CP to pick only 1 upgrade and you can never pick the same upgrade more than once in matched play (and can't give it to named characters).
- Adds 12 new relics, except you can only ever have 1 of them in the army, it's only for an Exalted Greater Daemon, and only if your warlord is of the same Chaos god.
- Adds new stratagems, but almost all of them are terrible.
- Does not add any new army-wide rules, still only loci (which force your whole detachment to be mono-God).
- No new datasheets except those already released elsewhere previously.

In other words, same old lazy third-rate treatment from the GW Design Studio that Chaos Daemon players have been used to for all of 8th Ed.

I guess we can't all be Space Marines.

Agreed, it feels like someone looked over the rules as and went "meh, I like big gribblies, heres some stuff I think is cool while I play power level games and make whooshing noises while I move my stuff."

100%. I don't know why I am surprised to be so disappointed when the Daemons Codex made it obvious that the GW design studio had no idea what to do with 40k Daemons in 8th edition.

I dunno, past the hype I'm not too excited for the ad mech new units. Some of the rules they got are nice no doubt there.

The new units though don't feel like they add much to the list, most feel like luxury buys but not really power increasing units. The transport/tank was a very needed addition to the force, none of these feel like that for the ad mech. About the most useful feels like it's the bomber flyer, the flamer armed winged guys and that would be about it.

The Cav and Winged guys are just low toughness, low armor and even las rifles will rip them up in short order and don't really add much unless you have a very specific list built to support them.

I like the raiders but more on Army Cav feel of the unit and less because I think they will be great. It isn't hard to keep characters outside 18inch of them until you blast them off the board with ease. The best boon is a maniplus getting put out solo finally as well as the start collecting reshuffle. Though with the costs of the new units it does a good job to make the transport feel cheaper and you'd probably aid most lists more with one of those over 3 cheap cav boys for just a little more cash spent for the transport.

Glad they got new models though, I don't see them shaking up the meta however when Marines will still eat their lunch.

At least the exalted ones all have at least one to make them survive longer. I doubt the 8 wounds in one phase makes the BT worth it still

 Virules wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

 Virules wrote:
A warning to any fellow Chaos Daemon players who are excited about this release:

- Adds Exalted upgrade to give Greater Daemons a long-needed boost, except it costs 1 CP to pick only 1 upgrade and you can never pick the same upgrade more than once in matched play (and can't give it to named characters).
- Adds 12 new relics, except you can only ever have 1 of them in the army, it's only for an Exalted Greater Daemon, and only if your warlord is of the same Chaos god.
- Adds new stratagems, but almost all of them are terrible.
- Does not add any new army-wide rules, still only loci (which force your whole detachment to be mono-God).
- No new datasheets except those already released elsewhere previously.

In other words, same old lazy third-rate treatment from the GW Design Studio that Chaos Daemon players have been used to for all of 8th Ed.

I guess we can't all be Space Marines.

Agreed, it feels like someone looked over the rules as and went "meh, I like big gribblies, heres some stuff I think is cool while I play power level games and make whooshing noises while I move my stuff."

100%. I don't know why I am surprised to be so disappointed when the Daemons Codex made it obvious that the GW design studio had no idea what to do with 40k Daemons in 8th edition.

Wow. I expected the rules to not be good but damn. Nothing to make the army as a whole function better. But we still have hope for a new codex in a year or two, right? Sigh...

 Virules wrote:

- Adds Exalted upgrade to give Greater Daemons a long-needed boost, except it costs 1 CP to pick only 1 upgrade and you can never pick the same upgrade more than once in matched play (and can't give it to named characters).

It doesnt say that. You can use the exalted stratagem upgrade multiple times, because its not during a phase, the stratagem itself isnt limited to once per battle, or something similar. And there is no limitation that any ability can only be chosen once.

Use this stratagem before the battle. Select one BLOODTHIRSTER model from your army that is not a named character. Until the end of the battle, that model gains the EXALTED keyword, and you can select one of the exalted bloodthirster abilities below for this model for the duration of the battle. Alternatively, you can randomly determine two abilities by rolling two D6 and applying them both to this model for the duration of the battle (if a double is rolled, roll again until two different results are rolled).

Edit: Nvm

I have learned it is best to wait and see. It is amazing what even one or two sentences clipped out of leaks can do.

 p5freak wrote:

 Virules wrote:

- Adds Exalted upgrade to give Greater Daemons a long-needed boost, except it costs 1 CP to pick only 1 upgrade and you can never pick the same upgrade more than once in matched play (and can't give it to named characters).

It doesnt say that. You can use the exalted stratagem upgrade multiple times, because its not during a phase, the stratagem itself isnt limited to once per battle, or something similar. And there is no limitation that any ability can only be chosen once.

Use this stratagem before the battle. Select one BLOODTHIRSTER model from your army that is not a named character. Until the end of the battle, that model gains the EXALTED keyword, and you can select one of the exalted bloodthirster abilities below for this model for the duration of the battle. Alternatively, you can randomly determine two abilities by rolling two D6 and applying them both to this model for the duration of the battle (if a double is rolled, roll again until two different results are rolled).

The only thing that stops this, is that we already know that buffs/debuffs with the same name do not stack. I can't see this disappearing when we cross from 8th to 9th

Given GW want people to buy Greater Daemons, I wouldn't be surprised if you can use it as many times as you like.

I mean if you want to run 3 GUOs all with T8 - I'm not really sure why this should be banned. Its a buff, but I'm not sure its going to wreck the game.

KoS buffs are perhaps more of a concern/interest, given that list was there or thereabouts - but still. (Effectively 3 inches more on that first turn charge? Okay...)

=======

For Admech - not sure if the new units will make it, but that's more a function of how crazy other things will be with these rules.

I can see big destroyer/breacher blobs benefiting from a 5+++ being faintly ludicrous, while also benefiting alongside Disintegrators/bots/whatever from a 6 to hit=2 hits. It might all be a bit slow for top level ITC - but good luck having fun with a friend on a table which doesn't have cityfight level terrain.

Someone posted an image in the admech tactics thread. It shows a rule saying you can't pick the same upgrade for multiple daemons but CAN have the same if you roll for the 2nd one

 Virules wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

 Virules wrote:
A warning to any fellow Chaos Daemon players who are excited about this release:

- Adds Exalted upgrade to give Greater Daemons a long-needed boost, except it costs 1 CP to pick only 1 upgrade and you can never pick the same upgrade more than once in matched play (and can't give it to named characters).
- Adds 12 new relics, except you can only ever have 1 of them in the army, it's only for an Exalted Greater Daemon, and only if your warlord is of the same Chaos god.
- Adds new stratagems, but almost all of them are terrible.
- Does not add any new army-wide rules, still only loci (which force your whole detachment to be mono-God).
- No new datasheets except those already released elsewhere previously.

In other words, same old lazy third-rate treatment from the GW Design Studio that Chaos Daemon players have been used to for all of 8th Ed.

I guess we can't all be Space Marines.

Agreed, it feels like someone looked over the rules as and went "meh, I like big gribblies, heres some stuff I think is cool while I play power level games and make whooshing noises while I move my stuff."

100%. I don't know why I am surprised to be so disappointed when the Daemons Codex made it obvious that the GW design studio had no idea what to do with 40k Daemons in 8th edition.

Indeed.

And was that difficult to include a soul grinder datasheet with at last the same kind of rule
it has in AoS, to shoot without penalty when moving?

Better than anything I guess, but I feel the content is lacking...

mortar_crew wrote:

 Virules wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

 Virules wrote:
A warning to any fellow Chaos Daemon players who are excited about this release:

- Adds Exalted upgrade to give Greater Daemons a long-needed boost, except it costs 1 CP to pick only 1 upgrade and you can never pick the same upgrade more than once in matched play (and can't give it to named characters).
- Adds 12 new relics, except you can only ever have 1 of them in the army, it's only for an Exalted Greater Daemon, and only if your warlord is of the same Chaos god.
- Adds new stratagems, but almost all of them are terrible.
- Does not add any new army-wide rules, still only loci (which force your whole detachment to be mono-God).
- No new datasheets except those already released elsewhere previously.

In other words, same old lazy third-rate treatment from the GW Design Studio that Chaos Daemon players have been used to for all of 8th Ed.

I guess we can't all be Space Marines.

Agreed, it feels like someone looked over the rules as and went "meh, I like big gribblies, heres some stuff I think is cool while I play power level games and make whooshing noises while I move my stuff."

100%. I don't know why I am surprised to be so disappointed when the Daemons Codex made it obvious that the GW design studio had no idea what to do with 40k Daemons in 8th edition.

Indeed.

And was that difficult to include a soul grinder datasheet with at last the same kind of rule
it has in AoS, to shoot without penalty when moving?

Better than anything I guess, but I feel the content is lacking...

Daemons needed a significantly bigger boost than this for 8th, but at the very least I don't have to worry about the "You want a game? I brought my Marines today, I wanted to see how the new ... Hey! Where are you going? It's a soft fluff list, I swear!" conversation when I bring them.

All bets are off when 9th drops.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
I have learned it is best to wait and see. It is amazing what even one or two sentences clipped out of leaks can do.

But these are shots of entire pages.

Can someone help clarify the exalted daemon rules?

From my understanding, we can still use the stratagem multiple times on the same unit to get more abilities, e.g. spend 2 CP to get 2 different abilities on the same unit?

I don't suppose someone has seen the full Imperial Knight rules somewhere either?

 Derp Angels Librarian wrote:
Can someone help clarify the exalted daemon rules?

From my understanding, we can still use the stratagem multiple times on the same unit to get more abilities, e.g. spend 2 CP to get 2 different abilities on the same unit?

Via Virules in the tactica:

 Derp Angels Librarian wrote:
Can someone help clarify the exalted daemon rules?

From my understanding, we can still use the stratagem multiple times on the same unit to get more abilities, e.g. spend 2 CP to get 2 different abilities on the same unit?

As written, yes. It's quite likely that GW will issue an FaQ to change that, though.

 Derp Angels Librarian wrote:
Can someone help clarify the exalted daemon rules?

From my understanding, we can still use the stratagem multiple times on the same unit to get more abilities, e.g. spend 2 CP to get 2 different abilities on the same unit?

Yes. You can also roll two D6 twice.

EXALTED BLOODTHIRSTER
Use this stratagem before the battle. Select one BLOODTHIRSTER model from your army that is not a named character. Until the end of the battle, that model gains the EXALTED keyword, and you can select one of the exalted bloodthirster abilities below for this model for the duration of the battle. Alternatively, you can randomly determine two abilities by rolling two D6 and applying them both to this model for the duration of the battle (if a double is rolled, roll again until two different results are rolled).

Question is, what happens, when you roll a 1 and 2 the first time, and you roll a 1 or 2 the second time ? Do you get the same ability twice ? Does it stack ? According to the FAQ only aura abilities with the same name dont stack.

Regardless of the bleh writing, assuming at least half the traits aren't garbage, a Supreme Command Detachment with one of each Greater Daemon and rolling for the traits could be randumb fun. Kinda like how we had that old formation with the 4 different Daemon Princes in 7th. That said...it probably wouldn't be good. Fun for CSM to ally in though at least.

Losing no more than 8 wounds per phase isn't all that bad. Let's say first unit chosen has 4 lascannons. You get hit, fail your saves. Opponent rolls more than 8 on their Damage roll. It's reduced to 8. The rest of that shooting phase nothing else really has no reason to shoot at it as it can't be damaged any further that shooting phase.

Give it that new relic that converts kills into wounds on a 5+ and unless you whiff your hits/wound rolls you might get some back. I know it's slim chance and not ideal but at least the BT won't get killed on Turn 1 (unless it gets psychically blasted enough in the psychic phase to bring down to 8 wounds or less).

Until they FAQ it, the optimum strategy for a single Exalted (per god) would be to spend 1 CP and roll 2d6 to get two traits, then spend 1 more CP to pick a third trait.

The wording on the relics is painful, e,g, for the Khorne relics, your warlord has to be a Khorne Daemon and then you can take one new relic on an Exalted. So, it looks like you can only make use of 1 of the 12 new relics per game.

I noticed a similar issue with the new Chaos Knight rules. There are some decent house bonds, warlord traits, relics and strategems but they are spread out so far that each individual house choice tends to only give you one good thing and three meh things.

Keep in mind that you need to kill multiple models with the talisman. You get one dice for every model you kill. It doesnt matter if you kill one model with 10 wounds, you only get one roll for the talisman.

Any new Loyalist Knight info out there?

Dudeface wrote:

 Virules wrote:
A warning to any fellow Chaos Daemon players who are excited about this release:

- Adds Exalted upgrade to give Greater Daemons a long-needed boost, except it costs 1 CP to pick only 1 upgrade and you can never pick the same upgrade more than once in matched play (and can't give it to named characters).
- Adds 12 new relics, except you can only ever have 1 of them in the army, it's only for an Exalted Greater Daemon, and only if your warlord is of the same Chaos god.
- Adds new stratagems, but almost all of them are terrible.
- Does not add any new army-wide rules, still only loci (which force your whole detachment to be mono-God).
- No new datasheets except those already released elsewhere previously.

In other words, same old lazy third-rate treatment from the GW Design Studio that Chaos Daemon players have been used to for all of 8th Ed.

I guess we can't all be Space Marines.

Agreed, it feels like someone looked over the rules as and went "meh, I like big gribblies, heres some stuff I think is cool while I play power level games and make whooshing noises while I move my stuff."

Not much sympathy to be had, sorry. Ya'll were the only army more busted than Eldar for all of 7th. Phoning it in is better than risking something like 2++2+++ dog star again.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 p5freak wrote:

 Derp Angels Librarian wrote:
Can someone help clarify the exalted daemon rules?

From my understanding, we can still use the stratagem multiple times on the same unit to get more abilities, e.g. spend 2 CP to get 2 different abilities on the same unit?

Yes. You can also roll two D6 twice.

EXALTED BLOODTHIRSTER
Use this stratagem before the battle. Select one BLOODTHIRSTER model from your army that is not a named character. Until the end of the battle, that model gains the EXALTED keyword, and you can select one of the exalted bloodthirster abilities below for this model for the duration of the battle. Alternatively, you can randomly determine two abilities by rolling two D6 and applying them both to this model for the duration of the battle (if a double is rolled, roll again until two different results are rolled).

Question is, what happens, when you roll a 1 and 2 the first time, and you roll a 1 or 2 the second time ? Do you get the same ability twice ? Does it stack ? According to the FAQ only aura abilities with the same name dont stack.

Like with SoB sacred rites, if you roll doubles twice, you only get one ability.

I think they will FAQ more or less immediately the idea you can use exalted daemon stratagem on the same greater daemon multiple times - if there isn't a rule to that effect that just hasn't been leaked anyway. Usual "but with GW you never know tho" - but I can't believe its intentional.

As I see it the rule above is saying that say option 1 is the best one for a Bloodthirster. You can select it on your first bloodthirster.
You can then use Exalted Daemon roll 2 dice on the second bloodthirster in the hope one of the random abilities comes up with a 1. If you get a double on that dice roll, reroll until you don't (i.e. you always get two abilities, unlike certain things we have seen elsewhere.)

ERJAK wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

 Virules wrote:
A warning to any fellow Chaos Daemon players who are excited about this release:

- Adds Exalted upgrade to give Greater Daemons a long-needed boost, except it costs 1 CP to pick only 1 upgrade and you can never pick the same upgrade more than once in matched play (and can't give it to named characters).
- Adds 12 new relics, except you can only ever have 1 of them in the army, it's only for an Exalted Greater Daemon, and only if your warlord is of the same Chaos god.
- Adds new stratagems, but almost all of them are terrible.
- Does not add any new army-wide rules, still only loci (which force your whole detachment to be mono-God).
- No new datasheets except those already released elsewhere previously.

In other words, same old lazy third-rate treatment from the GW Design Studio that Chaos Daemon players have been used to for all of 8th Ed.

I guess we can't all be Space Marines.

Agreed, it feels like someone looked over the rules as and went "meh, I like big gribblies, heres some stuff I think is cool while I play power level games and make whooshing noises while I move my stuff."

Not much sympathy to be had, sorry. Ya'll were the only army more busted than Eldar for all of 7th. Phoning it in is better than risking something like 2++2+++ dog star again.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 p5freak wrote:

 Derp Angels Librarian wrote:
Can someone help clarify the exalted daemon rules?

From my understanding, we can still use the stratagem multiple times on the same unit to get more abilities, e.g. spend 2 CP to get 2 different abilities on the same unit?

Yes. You can also roll two D6 twice.

EXALTED BLOODTHIRSTER
Use this stratagem before the battle. Select one BLOODTHIRSTER model from your army that is not a named character. Until the end of the battle, that model gains the EXALTED keyword, and you can select one of the exalted bloodthirster abilities below for this model for the duration of the battle. Alternatively, you can randomly determine two abilities by rolling two D6 and applying them both to this model for the duration of the battle (if a double is rolled, roll again until two different results are rolled).

Question is, what happens, when you roll a 1 and 2 the first time, and you roll a 1 or 2 the second time ? Do you get the same ability twice ? Does it stack ? According to the FAQ only aura abilities with the same name dont stack.

Like with SoB sacred rites, if you roll doubles twice, you only get one ability.

Good so marines, eldar and tau all to be crap for 9th in a penance tour yeah? Players bias shouldn't stop them making balanced rules.

£60 for the flier seems eye wateringly expensive...

Having said that, the £35 for 3x cavalry is expensive also. However, looking at comparisons in AoS, they are in line, or even cheaper than 3x cavalry sets in that game, I was expecting them to be more expensive...

Even with 20% discounts from third party, I think its at a point where I cannot feasibly justify buying any longer, especially if this is an indication of the new prices after the increases.

Wait, is that Stratoraptor just 114-134 points? That is bonkers.

There might be a typo, the cost for heavy phosphor blaster is 15 points in the codex. Otherwise, kastellan robots would be very good.