United Nations council recommends "reparatory justice" for African Americans.

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**Breotan**

The Washington Post has an article about a document released by the U.N.'s Human Rights Council.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/09/27/u-s-owes-black-people-reparations-for-a-history-of-racial-terrorism-says-u-n-panel/

The document being reported on can be found here: https://documents-dds-ny.un.org/doc/UNDOC/GEN/G16/183/30/PDF/G1618330.pdf?OpenElement

EDIT: Or here if that link doesn't work. -> http://daccess-ods.un.org/access.nsf/Get?Open&DS=A/HRC/33/61/Add.2&Lang=E

There has been a lot said (good and bad) about the U.N. and the Human Rights Council in particular. Take a few minutes and read through this and especially the recommendations in the U.N. document, then share with us what you think.

Ishaan Tharoor wrote:U.S. owes black people reparations for a history of ‘racial terrorism,’ says U.N. panel

The history of slavery in the United States justifies reparations for African Americans, argues a recent report by a U.N.-affiliated group based in Geneva.

This conclusion was part of a study by the United Nations' Working Group of Experts on People of African Descent, a body that reports to the international organization's High Commissioner on Human Rights. The group of experts, which includes leading human rights lawyers from around the world, presented its findings to the United Nations Human Rights Council on Monday, pointing to the continuing link between present injustices and the dark chapters of American history.

"In particular, the legacy of colonial history, enslavement, racial subordination and segregation, racial terrorism and racial inequality in the United States remains a serious challenge, as there has been no real commitment to reparations and to truth and reconciliation for people of African descent," the report stated. "Contemporary police killings and the trauma that they create are reminiscent of the past racial terror of lynching."

Citing the past year's spate of police officers killing unarmed African American men, the panel warned against "impunity for state violence," which has created, in its words, a "human rights crisis" that "must be addressed as a matter of urgency."

The panel drew its recommendations, which are nonbinding and unlikely to influence Washington, after a fact-finding mission in the United States in January. At the time, it hailed the strides taken to make the American criminal justice system more equitable but pointed to the corrosive legacy of the past.

"Despite substantial changes since the end of the enforcement of Jim Crow and the fight for civil rights, ideology ensuring the domination of one group over another, continues to negatively impact the civil, political, economic, social and cultural rights of African Americans today," it said in a statement. "The dangerous ideology of white supremacy inhibits social cohesion amongst the US population."

In its report, it specifically dwells on the extrajudicial murders that were a product of an era of white supremacy:

Lynching was a form of racial terrorism that has contributed to a legacy of racial inequality that the United States must address. Thousands of people of African descent were killed in violent public acts of racial control and domination and the perpetrators were never held accountable.

The reparations could come in a variety of forms, according to the panel, including "a formal apology, health initiatives, educational opportunities ... psychological rehabilitation, technology transfer and financial support, and debt cancellation."

To be sure, such initiatives are nowhere in the cards, even after the question of reparations arose again two years ago when surfaced by the groundbreaking work of American journalist Ta-Nehisi Coates.

Separately, a coalition of Caribbean nations is calling for reparations from their former European imperial powers for the impact of slavery, colonial genocide and the toxic racial laws that shaped life for the past two centuries in these countries. Their efforts are fitful, and so far not so fruitful.

When asked by reporters to comment on the tone of the American presidential election campaign on Monday, the working group's chairman, Ricardo A. Sunga of the Philippines, expressed concern about "hate speech ... xenophobia [and] Afrophobia" that he felt was prevalent in the campaign, although he didn't specifically call out Republican candidate Donald Trump.

"We are very troubled that these are on the rise," said Sunga.

**whembly**

The UN can go pound sand.

**thekingofkings**

whembly wrote:
The UN can go pound sand.

I wholeheartedly second this!

**Relapse**

whembly wrote:
The UN can go pound sand.

I third that notion. Funny, whenever I hear that term, it brings to mind Charlton Heston pounding sand on the beach from Planet of the Apes.

**redleger**

thekingofkings wrote:
whembly wrote:
The UN can go pound sand.

I wholeheartedly second this!

ill personally pay any slave who is still alive. Short of that, what the ones above me said.

**Ustrello**

Surprised it wasn't them getting angry at the Israelis for the umpteenth time this year while leaving everything else alone

**thekingofkings**

Relapse wrote:
whembly wrote:
The UN can go pound sand.

I third that notion. Funny, whenever I hear that term, it brings to mind Charlton Heston pounding sand on the beach from Planet of the Apes.

that could work too!

**Psienesis**

I wonder how many of the people disagreeing with the UN are not people of color and have never had to live under the systemic racism of the United States or have otherwise directly benefited from it, knowingly or otherwise.

**whembly**

Psienesis wrote:
I wonder how many of the people disagreeing with the UN are not people of color and have never had to live under the systemic racism of the United States or have otherwise directly benefited from it, knowingly or otherwise.

Doesn't matter.

With respect to UN... I'm telling them to butt out.

**LordofHats**

There was another event recently that was interesting in this regard. It's been making the rounds through history departments in PA and VA.

In short; Georgetown University in 1838 was managed by the Maryland Jesuits and was in serious financial crisis. The school owed massive amounts of money and was in danger of closing. Two priests who were serving as the presidents of the school at the time made arrangements to sell 272 slaves owned by the school (men, women, and children). They sold for $115,000 (over $3 million today). This was discovered by a researcher outside the school as I understand it, but members of the faculty latched onto the idea and proposed that the school give preferential admissions to anyone descended from the 272 slaves whose sale likely saved the University (Basically, automatic legacy status). Georgetwown is today one of the most prestigious colleges in the US, and a major school for the field of American History.

Linky

This idea is unlikely to go through, as it has been proposed but no one at the University to my knowledge has proposed no means by which to fund the program. There's also of course the problem that very few people today would probably be able to prove descent from these individuals in a meaningful way. When the Civil War ended, many sales records were destroyed, and it's made it difficult for geneologists and historians today to track the domestic sales of slaves from the American Antebellum Period. Still. It's a much more realistic idea than cash payments (that will never happen and probably won't work anyway).

Many US universities have ties to slavery. Harvard, Princeton, and Brown just to name a few were founded and heavily funded by slaveholders (Brown being one of Colonial America's most prolific).

**NinthMusketeer**

I think a formal apology but more importantly a statement confirming that racism is still a problem would generate some good will and be a step in the right direction. Its easy to say that there are no slaves left to pay but the reality is many blacks are still in poor conditions because of what happened back then. And these are people alive, here, now. Does that mean paying reparations is a good idea? I think not, because it disregards the part those people have had in keeping themselves down. Just making people aware that yes, this is a real problem and no, its not just something the young'uns are into these days, would help more than reparations ever could.

**redleger**

NinthMusketeer wrote:
I think a formal apology but more importantly a statement confirming that racism is still a problem would generate some good will and be a step in the right direction. Its easy to say that there are no slaves left to pay but the reality is many blacks are still in poor conditions because of what happened back then. And these are people alive, here, now. Does that mean paying reparations is a good idea? I think not, because it disregards the part those people have had in keeping themselves down. Just making people aware that yes, this is a real problem and no, its not just something the young'uns are into these days, would help more than reparations ever could.

That is an idea that I think many could get behind, and I for one agree with. An apology could earn good will, however when someone is down, and is given something for free, it is my experience it holds little value. there needs to be a balance, and some delicate treatment to make progress and a hand up, not a hand out.

**chaos0xomega**

Slavery isn't the reason for the predicament of african americans today, what happened after slavery is (anti/moderate reconstructionists, lost causers, jim crow, and segregation).

By most accounts, the african american diaspora in the post-civil war south actually did pretty well for itself, particularly during the Grant years, in large part thanks to the numerous laws, policies, and protections that were afforded to them which enabled them to very rapidly approach a near-equal footing to the southern white population. It was when Congress wholesale abandoned reconstruction policies and the federal government stopped paying attention to issues in the south that Jim Crow was able to rear its ugly head and the southern white-supremacist movement was able to reassert its dominance over southern (and to a lesser extent American as a whole) culture, at which point any gains made my the freedmen were entirely erased and the black population was knocked back down to a status only slightly better than that of enslavement.

**sebster**

I know its fun to get all outraged about the UN, but you guys are really stretching with this one. This is a single working group, writing a report that it puts up to a UN High Commissioner, who can then look to recommend it actual national working bodies, who might support it, and if they do then it would become a piece of advice that could be given to the US.

It’s the equivalent of a US government department putting together a briefing document, and then having it reported as official US policy before its even gone before the head of department.

**SOFDC**

whembly wrote:
The UN can go pound sand.

This X10000.

**tneva82**

whembly wrote:
Psienesis wrote:
I wonder how many of the people disagreeing with the UN are not people of color and have never had to live under the systemic racism of the United States or have otherwise directly benefited from it, knowingly or otherwise.

Doesn't matter.

With respect to UN... I'm telling them to butt out.

Does tell reason for the answer though so yes it matters.

**cuda1179**

The UN conclusions were wrong anyway. Reparations HAVE been paid. We bought an entire country (Liberia) for the slaves, and gave away a lot of free stuff and free one-way tickets there. There was also the field order by Sherman in 1865 to hand out 40 acres and a mule to the head of every Black household (there was a concerted effort to do this, but it lost authority when the war ended). Also, Welfare was primarily targeted towards Blacks. Let's not also forget affirmative action.

**sebster**

cuda1179 wrote:
The UN conclusions were wrong anyway.

Oh jesus fething christ I know expecting people to read the thread is a sucker's game, but my post is two above yours. This is not a UN conclusion. It's a single working paper with a whole bunch of other parties that would have to accept it and approve it before it became close to being a "UN conclusion".

**AlmightyWalrus**

Reparations aren't going to do much good if they don't change the current societal structure anyway. It'd be like using a bandaid to fix pneumonia.

EDIT: Also, as sebster is saying, drop the UN hate boner.

**stanman**

Aren't there much bigger fish to focus on, you know stuff like systemic genocide that's currently occurring or has happened within living memory. Modern day slavery happening in places like China or human trafficking and sex slaves. Stuff that's all alive and well in today's time.

**yellowfever**

Problem is Chinese and Mexican sex slaves aren't black. And only "black lives matter".

**Ouze**

Putting aside the fact this is less of a proposal than just a white paper, lets consider reparations.

The US government has, in fact, issued a formal apology for slavery.

I don't really have a moral problem with reparations. My issues are practical - will throwing money at individual people as recompense fix any of the structural issues the US has because of the consequences of slavery and institutional racism? I'd have to say no, not really.

I think we have made, as a country, a more or less good faith effort to try and repair some of the damage we've done. I don't think it's been as effective as it could have been, but with the passage of time, certainly a lot of it has been alleviated. I don't really have any great new ideas for what we can do to make things better, but I don't think reparations would be helpful.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

yellowfever wrote:
Problem is Chinese and Mexican sex slaves aren't black. And only "black lives matter".

Well, at least the OP's intent got kicked off pretty fast. Hopefully we can degenerate into the usual gibberish and be locked by page 2.

**Vaktathi**

I'm not sure how you'd even do "reparations"? If we're talking about cash or benefits or something, determining who's eligible and who's not would take just as many resources as the actual benefits. Who would you even give such reparations to? Anyone who's "Black"? Well, who decides that? In most cases it's an individual identification not a determined and catalogued trait. As we saw with Dolezal, such things can get awkward real fast.

I think Chappelle's show also covered almost exactly what would happen should such actually ever come to occur as well, if it were some sort of direct payment, it'd get sucked right out of the hands that need it most back into "the man's" hands just as soon as they got it, adding to some Wall Street dude's financial empire more than anything else.

**hotsauceman1**

So, it is a recommendation, for a recommendation?

**TheCustomLime**

Vaktathi wrote:
I'm not sure how you'd even do "reparations"? If we're talking about cash or benefits or something, determining who's eligible and who's not would take just as many resources as the actual benefits. Who would you even give such reparations to? Anyone who's "Black"? Well, who decides that? In most cases it's an individual identification not a determined and catalogued trait. As we saw with Dolezal, such things can get awkward real fast.

I think Chappelle's show also covered almost exactly what would happen should such actually ever come to occur as well, if it were some sort of direct payment, it'd get sucked right out of the hands that need it most back into "the man's" hands just as soon as they got it, adding to some Wall Street dude's financial empire more than anything else.

This. We should try more meaningful ways to improve the lives of blacks other than an arbitrary paycheck.

Also, I'll echo what others have said. The UN (should it approve of these findings) can go feth itself.

**Mr. Burning**

hotsauceman1 wrote:
So, it is a recommendation, for a recommendation?

And damn that sliver of an idea to hell!!

**Peregrine**

cuda1179 wrote:
We bought an entire country (Liberia) for the slaves

"We" did not. A group of pro-slavery slave owners started it as an attempt to get free black people out of their states and prevent them from doing anything to disrupt slavery.

Also, Welfare was primarily targeted towards Blacks.

{citation needed}

Given the existence of ugly racial stereotypes about welfare I hope you have some specific examples and evidence here, and aren't just repeating the racist stereotypes.

Let's not also forget affirmative action.

The strongest opposition to the idea of reparations (at least for moral reasons, not over practical difficulties in implementation) comes from people who also oppose affirmative action, so you can't really bring up affirmative action as a substitute.

**LordofHats**

I think there's a lot to be made of how badly affirmative action has worked out. It's a noble idea, but it assumes a lot of things that don't work in real life. Getting preferential treatment in hiring, school admissions, or other things, isn't very helpful if the rest of your background leaves you unprepared for those worlds. Something less passive is really needed. Right now, very few African Americans benefit from from the policy, and they're oddly the ones who least need the help.

And when it comes to Liberia, I really hope we don't presume that putting a bunch of black people back on a boat and sending them back where they didn't come from is incredibly problematic. African Americans largely didn't go to Liberia because they didn't want to. They were born in the United States. By and large, they are more heavily descended from white Europeans than they are from Africans (let that sink in). I dare say, saying "well sorry about all that, here's a boat back to where you came from and belong" is a load of racist bull and a complete cop out.

**redleger**

LordofHats wrote:
I think there's a lot to be made of how badly affirmative action has worked out. It's a noble idea, but it assumes a lot of things that don't work in real life. Getting preferential treatment in hiring, school admissions, or other things, isn't very helpful if the rest of your background leaves you unprepared for those worlds. Something less passive is really needed. Right now, very few African Americans benefit from from the policy, and they're oddly the ones who least need the help.

And when it comes to Liberia, I really hope we don't presume that putting a bunch of black people back on a boat and sending them back where they didn't come from is incredibly problematic. African Americans largely didn't go to Liberia because they didn't want to. They were born in the United States. By and large, they are more heavily descended from white Europeans than they are from Africans (let that sink in). I dare say, saying "well sorry about all that, here's a boat back to where you came from and belong" is a load of racist bull and a complete cop out.

Although you may not be wrong, there is irony in that statement based on a culture of black Americans whom think calling Africa the mother land and talk about visiting where they "come from" is an appealing idea. Also the term African American rings with irony when weighed against your statement. Im not saying sending them to Africa was done with noble intentions, but there are some at the time that might have thought it was the right answer, however misguided. Personally dude who saved my life in Iraq and after we got home was black and Im glad we didn't send them all back. I might not be alive today, and I would be out one of my best friends ever.

**Peregrine**

redleger wrote:
Although you may not be wrong, there is irony in that statement based on a culture of black Americans whom think calling Africa the mother land and talk about visiting where they "come from" is an appealing idea.

Key point: visiting. Not permanently returning. And it's not like they have a monopoly on the idea, white people (or people of any other race) are perfectly capable of saying "let's go visit where we 'came from' generations ago".