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i'm just hoping all that detail won't be an excuse to goldsword (or i guess silversword in this case as that's their color too!) the box with a hidden in plain sight terminator squad box price increase. here's to hoping that they cost as much as vanilla termies!

warboss wrote:i'm just hoping all that detail won't be an excuse to goldsword (or i guess silversword in this case as that's their color too!) the box with a hidden in plain sight terminator squad box price increase. here's to hoping that they cost as much as vanilla termies!

I believe the word you're looking for is "platinumsword" pricing. I really wish they wouldn't, as a cheap, easy to store army with great models would be good advertising for the game, but get the feeling GW's going to do it anyway.

AlexHolker wrote:

warboss wrote:i'm just hoping all that detail won't be an excuse to goldsword (or i guess silversword in this case as that's their color too!) the box with a hidden in plain sight terminator squad box price increase. here's to hoping that they cost as much as vanilla termies!

I believe the word you're looking for is "platinumsword" pricing. I really wish they wouldn't, as a cheap, easy to store army with great models would be good advertising for the game, but get the feeling GW's going to do it anyway.

Id say they will be more expensive than the normal Terminators box. They are likely to have more parts/options, and surely more detail. However, the Wolf Guard Term box has tons more parts than the regular boxes, and its the same price. So there may be hope...but I wouldnt be surprised by $55-$60 US for the GKT box. For that price Id probably still get some...since most places sell around 15-20% off online, that still keeps them affordable. If they push them to $70 or more I may just stick to regular Termies for the project Im doing.

My only fear is that we will lose the Halberd from the GK. I mean in plastic if they did keep them, the blades would keep snapping off, and I wouldn't surrender my metal minis for that. With spears in fantasy there is no issue because the head of the spear is small, and doesn't catch on things as easy. Hopefully it isn't just a bunch of bland swords in the end.

Mad4Minis wrote:

AlexHolker wrote:

warboss wrote:i'm just hoping all that detail won't be an excuse to goldsword (or i guess silversword in this case as that's their color too!) the box with a hidden in plain sight terminator squad box price increase. here's to hoping that they cost as much as vanilla termies!

I believe the word you're looking for is "platinumsword" pricing. I really wish they wouldn't, as a cheap, easy to store army with great models would be good advertising for the game, but get the feeling GW's going to do it anyway.

Id say they will be more expensive than the normal Terminators box. They are likely to have more parts/options, and surely more detail. However, the Wolf Guard Term box has tons more parts than the regular boxes, and its the same price. So there may be hope...but I wouldnt be surprised by $55-$60 US for the GKT box. For that price Id probably still get some...since most places sell around 15-20% off online, that still keeps them affordable. If they push them to $70 or more I may just stick to regular Termies for the project Im doing.

I'd have to see the boxes first, if they maintain quality, then picking them up is a must for me. Although I could see them being around $70, I would only get one box under those circumstances, and make them an army centerpiece.

To the the above, I like the halberds too, but I would love to see some Maces, Flails, or other weaponry that is not common place amongst models. I just don't like that the models all wield the same melee weapon.

As for the snapping issue... Well, I had that problem with my metals, the metal that was between the blade and hilt was too thin, and if the model was wiggled or dropped from a small height (4 inches) it broke off.

Footsloggin wrote:As for the snapping issue... Well, I had that problem with my metals, the metal that was between the blade and hilt was too thin, and if the model was wiggled or dropped from a small height (4 inches) it broke off.

Yeah, I would consider metal more problematic for that sort of thing than plastic. I wouldn't worry too much about plastic halberd ends breaking if stored &transported with reasonable care, but the metal bends very easily and so on.

tjkopena wrote:

Footsloggin wrote:As for the snapping issue... Well, I had that problem with my metals, the metal that was between the blade and hilt was too thin, and if the model was wiggled or dropped from a small height (4 inches) it broke off.

Yeah, I would consider metal more problematic for that sort of thing than plastic. I wouldn't worry too much about plastic halberd ends breaking if stored &transported with reasonable care, but the metal bends very easily and so on.

Yes, the metal does bend, and then, should you attempt to bend it back, the metal weakens, do this a few times, and it will snap off VERY easily.

Footsloggin wrote:

tjkopena wrote:

Footsloggin wrote:As for the snapping issue... Well, I had that problem with my metals, the metal that was between the blade and hilt was too thin, and if the model was wiggled or dropped from a small height (4 inches) it broke off.

Yeah, I would consider metal more problematic for that sort of thing than plastic. I wouldn't worry too much about plastic halberd ends breaking if stored &transported with reasonable care, but the metal bends very easily and so on.

Yes, the metal does bend, and then, should you attempt to bend it back, the metal weakens, do this a few times, and it will snap off VERY easily.

Well this is an obvious reality, happens the same with my Vindicare assassin with the exitus rifle, but a pin fixes for life

Speaking of which it would be nice to see vindicares buffed, I don't see over 100pts in that model with only a 40% chance to wound with a single shot each round, and any cover/invulnerable save will greatly decrease this chance anyway.

2+ rerolled to hit would make much more sense, or making the rifle wound on 3+.

Ehsteve wrote:

Footsloggin wrote:

tjkopena wrote:

Footsloggin wrote:As for the snapping issue... Well, I had that problem with my metals, the metal that was between the blade and hilt was too thin, and if the model was wiggled or dropped from a small height (4 inches) it broke off.

Yeah, I would consider metal more problematic for that sort of thing than plastic. I wouldn't worry too much about plastic halberd ends breaking if stored &transported with reasonable care, but the metal bends very easily and so on.

Yes, the metal does bend, and then, should you attempt to bend it back, the metal weakens, do this a few times, and it will snap off VERY easily.

Well this is an obvious reality, happens the same with my Vindicare assassin with the exitus rifle, but a pin fixes for life

Speaking of which it would be nice to see vindicares buffed, I don't see over 100pts in that model with only a 40% chance to wound with a single shot each round, and any cover/invulnerable save will greatly decrease this chance anyway.

2+ rerolled to hit would make much more sense, or making the rifle wound on 3+.

I believe the rumors said that the Vindicaire would have unlimited special ammunition rounds,not the current 1 per type per game setup that it has now,so that is a significant buff presuming the ammo types stay the same[Ignore Invulerable Saves,inflict 2 Wounds/3d6 Armor Pen,or wound on 2+]. I supposse a BS of 6 or 7 wouldn't be out of the question to give him some kind of a reroll. However,any further buff to the Spy Mask[reduce all cover saves by 1/negate 6+ cover] would be broken if combined with the rest of that.

Considering Chaos Terminators have those ridiculous spike racks that like to break if you look at them funny, I doubt halberds will be taken away from plastic Grey Knight Terminators.

Whatever1 wrote:
I believe the rumors said that the Vindicaire would have unlimited special ammunition rounds,not the current 1 per type per game setup that it has now,so that is a significant buff presuming the ammo types stay the same[Ignore Invulerable Saves,inflict 2 Wounds/3d6 Armor Pen,or wound on 2+]. I supposse a BS of 6 or 7 wouldn't be out of the question to give him some kind of a reroll. However,any further buff to the Spy Mask[reduce all cover saves by 1/negate 6+ cover] would be broken if combined with the rest of that.

Hell roll all of the ammo effects into one special rule and let him just be worth bothering with, even with unlimited ammo of the current variety he's just not very impressive.

I'd hope for something more like:

Exitus rifle
range: 48
Heavy 2
AP 2
wounds automatically
Any successful cover or invulnerable saves taken against wounds must be re-rolled
Any unsaved wound instead inflicts 2 wounds.

Jack

Jackmojo wrote:

Whatever1 wrote:
I believe the rumors said that the Vindicaire would have unlimited special ammunition rounds,not the current 1 per type per game setup that it has now,so that is a significant buff presuming the ammo types stay the same[Ignore Invulerable Saves,inflict 2 Wounds/3d6 Armor Pen,or wound on 2+]. I supposse a BS of 6 or 7 wouldn't be out of the question to give him some kind of a reroll. However,any further buff to the Spy Mask[reduce all cover saves by 1/negate 6+ cover] would be broken if combined with the rest of that.

Hell roll all of the ammo effects into one special rule and let him just be worth bothering with, even with unlimited ammo of the current variety he's just not very impressive.

I'd hope for something more like:

Exitus rifle
range: 48
Heavy 2
AP 2
wounds automatically
Any successful cover or invulnerable saves taken against wounds must be re-rolled
Any unsaved wound instead inflicts 2 wounds.

Jack

A 2 shot weapon hitting on 2+ able to pick out targets dealing 2 wounds...a little powerful?

Would like to see any of the changes to the other assassin, I mean I never take any others because they don't appeal as worth their points. With the vindicare at least you have a good chance of picking off your enemy's HQ which is hopefully worth more than the cost of your assassin.

Ehsteve wrote:
A 2 shot weapon hitting on 2+ able to pick out targets dealing 2 wounds...a little powerful?

Would like to see any of the changes to the other assassin, I mean I never take any others because they don't appeal as worth their points. With the vindicare at least you have a good chance of picking off your enemy's HQ which is hopefully worth more than the cost of your assassin.

Eh, my thinking is it needs to be threatening enough to encourage the enemy to approach it and force him to relocate, giving up some shooting, the 2 shots helps makes up for the turns he'd need to end up legging it. Plus it helps make up for his focus on shooting over melee (half the phases to do damage in over all). If we give him just unlimited special ammo his most useful role will be picking special wepaons and squad leaders out, and that benefit only applies versus some armies. (also mathhammer it out, even with what I said he only has a 63% chance per shot of killing a guy (of two wounds or less) in normal cover worse if they go to ground, less shots would make him even less reliable).

As to the current assassins I normally find the Eversor killy enough to pick off a support unit and then harass other stuff and the Callidus both dangerous to many things and offering me a chance to muck with my opponents setup. The Culexus is the one I normally overlook since its best used in very specific circumstances.

Jack

Jackmojo wrote:

Ehsteve wrote:
A 2 shot weapon hitting on 2+ able to pick out targets dealing 2 wounds...a little powerful?

Would like to see any of the changes to the other assassin, I mean I never take any others because they don't appeal as worth their points. With the vindicare at least you have a good chance of picking off your enemy's HQ which is hopefully worth more than the cost of your assassin.

Eh, my thinking is it needs to be threatening enough to encourage the enemy to approach it and force him to relocate, giving up some shooting, the 2 shots helps makes up for the turns he'd need to end up legging it. Plus it helps make up for his focus on shooting over melee (half the phases to do damage in over all). If we give him just unlimited special ammo his most useful role will be picking special wepaons and squad leaders out, and that benefit only applies versus some armies. (also mathhammer it out, even with what I said he only has a 63% chance per shot of killing a guy (of two wounds or less) in normal cover worse if they go to ground, less shots would make him even less reliable).

As to the current assassins I normally find the Eversor killy enough to pick off a support unit and then harass other stuff and the Callidus both dangerous to many things and offering me a chance to muck with my opponents setup. The Culexus is the one I normally overlook since its best used in very specific circumstances.

Jack

I guess the reduction of a cover save could be placed, and while should be able to kill, I don't want him to be able to just go. *Points Exodus rifle* *INSTA-GIB!!!* WIN!!!

He SHOULD be able to kill most of what he points his gun at, whilst remaining in the range of not insta-killing every enemy leader on the board that is MEQ or GEQ.

tjkopena wrote:

Footsloggin wrote:As for the snapping issue... Well, I had that problem with my metals, the metal that was between the blade and hilt was too thin, and if the model was wiggled or dropped from a small height (4 inches) it broke off.

Yeah, I would consider metal more problematic for that sort of thing than plastic. I wouldn't worry too much about plastic halberd ends breaking if stored &transported with reasonable care, but the metal bends very easily and so on.

Also, the plastic models have very little weight, thus little impact force upon a drop, they tend to bounce around more than break.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Footsloggin wrote:
I'd have to see the boxes first, if they maintain quality, then picking them up is a must for me. Although I could see them being around $70, I would only get one box under those circumstances, and make them an army centerpiece.

To the the above, I like the halberds too, but I would love to see some Maces, Flails, or other weaponry that is not common place amongst models. I just don't like that the models all wield the same melee weapon.

Sadly, Ill admit that I would likely get weak and spend the money for a box or two as well, I just wouldnt be very happy about it.

As far as melee weapons...maces or flails would be sweet. If the only options are swords or halberds Ill likely replace them with thunder hammers. Yes, I know its not useable in 40k, but all the Termies Im doing are for a non-GW game system.

True, my predator fell from the hood of a car, and didn't even snap off the Heavy Bolters... I was very happy.

Footsloggin wrote:
I guess the reduction of a cover save could be placed, and while should be able to kill, I don't want him to be able to just go. *Points Exodus rifle* *INSTA-GIB!!!* WIN!!!

He SHOULD be able to kill most of what he points his gun at, whilst remaining in the range of not insta-killing every enemy leader on the board that is MEQ or GEQ.

The two wounds things (aside from being shamelessly cribbed from his current options) seemed a better option for not making him too good versus high wound models without eternal warrior (i.e. monstrous creatures without invulnerable saves would die in one hit if he just always caused instant death).

Which remind me he should also always get 3d6 penetration versus vehicles.

Jack

I can confirm the post above. Plastic does indeed bounce. I was totally freaked out the other day when I dropped a terminator but happy that nothing broke.

I’m personally holding out for some leaked pictures of the sprues.

candy.man wrote:I can confirm the post above. Plastic does indeed bounce. I was totally freaked out the other day when I dropped a terminator but happy that nothing broke.

I’m personally holding out for some leaked pictures of the sprues.

Mmmmmm...

And as for 3d6 Penetration. I don't really mind that. I was just saying how most SM Unique commanders would die in 2 turns under those circumstances. As would some other commanders

Whatever1 wrote:I believe the rumors said that the Vindicaire would have unlimited special ammunition rounds,not the current 1 per type per game setup that it has now,so that is a significant buff presuming the ammo types stay the same[Ignore Invulerable Saves,inflict 2 Wounds/3d6 Armor Pen,or wound on 2+]. I supposse a BS of 6 or 7 wouldn't be out of the question to give him some kind of a reroll. However,any further buff to the Spy Mask[reduce all cover saves by 1/negate 6+ cover] would be broken if combined with the rest of that.

None of which will amount to anything if the Vindicare (and all his Assassin Super Friends) don't get their IC status back. Right now anyone with a gun and a keen eye can snipe one from across the table. Not exactly dignified for the galaxy's most stealthy sniper.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Whatever1 wrote:I believe the rumors said that the Vindicaire would have unlimited special ammunition rounds,not the current 1 per type per game setup that it has now,so that is a significant buff presuming the ammo types stay the same[Ignore Invulerable Saves,inflict 2 Wounds/3d6 Armor Pen,or wound on 2+]. I supposse a BS of 6 or 7 wouldn't be out of the question to give him some kind of a reroll. However,any further buff to the Spy Mask[reduce all cover saves by 1/negate 6+ cover] would be broken if combined with the rest of that.

None of which will amount to anything if the Vindicare (and all his Assassin Super Friends) don't get their IC status back. Right now anyone with a gun and a keen eye can snipe one from across the table. Not exactly dignified for the galaxy's most stealthy sniper.

Why not him stealth or a shroud esq rule like the current GK? Would keep him alive and shooting.

Well he has the Stealth Suit now, but I'm talking more about Assassins in general. As 'Independant Units', as they are now, they stick out like a sore thumb. I find that incongruous with the idea of an 'assassin' (other than the Eversor, of course).

Maybe if they all got Stealth Suits... I dunno. Point is, being a valid target from the word go in every game doesn't seem to fit with the way Assassins are portrayed - again, other than the Eversor, who goes to no effort to hide himself from his foes and, in fact, uses fear as a major weapon (which incidentally isn't represented by the rules either.. hmm). Bottom line - Assassins need to be better. I miss the 2nd Ed Assassins. They were amazing (HeroHammer disclaimers notwithstanding).

H.B.M.C. wrote:Well he has the Stealth Suit now, but I'm talking more about Assassins in general. As 'Independant Units', as they are now, they stick out like a sore thumb. I find that incongruous with the idea of an 'assassin' (other than the Eversor, of course).

Maybe if they all got Stealth Suits... I dunno. Point is, being a valid target from the word go in every game doesn't seem to fit with the way Assassins are portrayed (again, other than the Eversor, who goes to no effort to hide himself from his foes and, in fact, uses fear as a major weapon... something which isn't represented by the rules incidentally).

Yah, but he is a terror shock trooper. Maybe something that makes them blend into another unit, or make it so you have to take a test to see if your unit notices him. I dont know, but your right, he needs to be stealthy.

Happygrunt wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:Well he has the Stealth Suit now, but I'm talking more about Assassins in general. As 'Independant Units', as they are now, they stick out like a sore thumb. I find that incongruous with the idea of an 'assassin' (other than the Eversor, of course).

Maybe if they all got Stealth Suits... I dunno. Point is, being a valid target from the word go in every game doesn't seem to fit with the way Assassins are portrayed (again, other than the Eversor, who goes to no effort to hide himself from his foes and, in fact, uses fear as a major weapon... something which isn't represented by the rules incidentally).

Yah, but he is a terror shock trooper. Maybe something that makes them blend into another unit, or make it so you have to take a test to see if your unit notices him. I dont know, but your right, he needs to be stealthy.

Or possibly take a page from Fantasy and have the Eversor attached to a unit which can release him at any time, but is otherwise untouchable until released (let's say that if the unit is destroyed, he is automatically released as those keeping him back are removed), give him a drug allowing him to move 12" in the movement phase to represent him going absolute bat insane so you have an effective assault range of 18" and as an IC can roll 3d6 for difficult terrain.

Your enemies would be crapping themselves trying to figure out which unit is holding the assassin. THAT is fear tactics.

Does not sound right.

Ehsteve wrote:

Or possibly take a page from Fantasy and have the Eversor attached to a unit which can release him at any time, but is otherwise untouchable until released (let's say that if the unit is destroyed, he is automatically released as those keeping him back are removed), give him a drug allowing him to move 12" in the movement phase to represent him going absolute bat insane so you have an effective assault range of 18" and as an IC can roll 3d6 for difficult terrain.

Your enemies would be crapping themselves trying to figure out which unit is holding the assassin. THAT is fear tactics.

That sounds cool...also maybe give him the ability to be "hidden" in a piece of terrain at the start of the game, not revealed until he shoots, moves or the enemy does some kind of spot check to find him.

Eversor's don't hide! They scream "WRRRRRRYYYYYYYYY" and charge at the nearest xenos filth.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Eversor's don't hide! They scream "WRRRRRRYYYYYYYYY" and charge at the nearest xenos filth.

I was thinking the sniper one...Im not up on the names of the assassins. Actually would be a cool rule for any sniper type trooper...

H.B.M.C. wrote:Eversor's don't hide! They scream "WRRRRRRYYYYYYYYY" and charge at the nearest xenos filth.

But they have to be released first. You can't have it placed on the board at the beginning of the game and simply expect it to live long enough to engage the enemy especially if you want it to be as dangerous as it is fluff wise.

The rules for Goblin Fanatics/Assassins work quite well in that they either are forced to be released at a certain distance from the enemy or can be released at any time you wish, it works well mechanically and is flavourful as well. The enemy doesn't know which squad they are in, until you want them to know. You don't have to always believe it's them being stealthy, it's them being physically restrained until they are released at the enemy until they WRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRYYYYYYYYY and the fun begins.

That is for the Eversor (the one who is insane, and explodes when he dies).

As for the Vindicare (the sniper), stealth fields make perfect sense, since he's wearing gear which makes it impossible to be detected even by scent.

I would love that assasin.

Hide him in a unit fo grey knight terminators, and right before they get there, the enemy hears "WRRRRRRRRRRRYYYYYYYYYY!".