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Is matematically imposible to reach a unit with your charge if you roll less than a 8, because 8"+1"=9"

Even if for a sloppy movement you place your models at 8,8" distance, you should know that, so if you roll less than a 8, you just fail the charge.

Is just as simple.

changemod wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
And if they said 10" you'd whine it should say 11" and so on, and so forth.

No, because then it would say 10 or more, rather than more than 9.

I'm fully aware this is extreme nitpicking to the point of sounding ludicrous, I don't lack self awareness. Doesn't make what I'm saying wrong.

This isn't the thread for continuing this line of discussion.

I hope people do understand the reason it says "over 9" is so you're not locked into putting your units right next to your opponent's models instead of, say, on top of that unguarded objective in the corner.

 Blacksails wrote:

changemod wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

changemod wrote:
It's a problem because it's pointlessly fuzzy. If I have to place a model 9.00000000000000000000000000-repeat forever-000001 inches away from something then my skin is going to crawl.

There's an infinite range of values between 9 and 10 inches. It's sloppy at best.

Pretty sure people are going to rely on the values marked on their tape measures more than being exactly one atomic particle over 9".

Exactly. That is the exact reason this is sloppy rules writing: Because a tape measure will say the model is 9 inches away but you have to for this single purpose and no other use more nebulous definitions.

This is satire right?

I'm struggling guys, help me out.

I go back to the early 2000s on this site, and this discussion just might be an all-time classic.


Back on topic, the Q&A makes me encouraged that GCults will still have plenty of ambush juice. And I'm very interested to see the drop pod article for what implications that might have for my 30K World Eaters...eventually.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Desubot wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

My biggest beef so far with this edition is the unlimited overwatch

yeah its my only real sore spot on all of this.

i get its easier for book keeping. guess its going to be a lot of positioning and counter positioning to guarantee good charges.

If it's locked in at a flat 6 and we don't see the return to the at the full bs I'll be a little happier about it.

Your not factoring in wall of death guns. Flamers on things like admech and tau are INSANE now.

 Red Corsair wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Desubot wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

My biggest beef so far with this edition is the unlimited overwatch

yeah its my only real sore spot on all of this.

i get its easier for book keeping. guess its going to be a lot of positioning and counter positioning to guarantee good charges.

If it's locked in at a flat 6 and we don't see the return to the at the full bs I'll be a little happier about it.

Your not factoring in wall of death guns. Flamers on things like admech and tau are INSANE now.

We're assuming that Wall of Death has changed from being a D3" roll to being the normal shooting profile.

EDIT: Also, don't the weapons have to be in range? If you make a 9+" charge those flamers are useless.

If it says that Wyches get their 4+ Inv in the fight phase, and overwatch happens during the fight phase, I see no reason why they wouldn't get their save against overwatch fire. Am I missing something?

 Fenris-77 wrote:
If it says that Wyches get their 4+ Inv in the fight phase, and overwatch happens during the fight phase, I see no reason why they wouldn't get their save against overwatch fire. Am I missing something?

Nothing but the actual rule itself, but it's a safe bet currently.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Desubot wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

My biggest beef so far with this edition is the unlimited overwatch

yeah its my only real sore spot on all of this.

i get its easier for book keeping. guess its going to be a lot of positioning and counter positioning to guarantee good charges.

If it's locked in at a flat 6 and we don't see the return to the at the full bs I'll be a little happier about it.

Your not factoring in wall of death guns. Flamers on things like admech and tau are INSANE now.

We're assuming that Wall of Death has changed from being a D3" roll to being the normal shooting profile.

EDIT: Also, don't the weapons have to be in range? If you make a 9+" charge those flamers are useless.

^ This. Wall of death lines will have a counter in the fast assault units than can reliably roll an 8" on a charge (almost everyone with command points).

 Fenris-77 wrote:
If it says that Wyches get their 4+ Inv in the fight phase, and overwatch happens during the fight phase, I see no reason why they wouldn't get their save against overwatch fire. Am I missing something?

They've made charging it's own phase, which is kinda unnecessary but I guess makes it easier to remember you technically aren't supposed to forget to make a charge, fight an unrelated combat then say "oh right I was also going to charge those Devastators".

Even through I'm not sure I've ever seen a game where that hasn't happened.

changemod wrote:

 Fenris-77 wrote:
If it says that Wyches get their 4+ Inv in the fight phase, and overwatch happens during the fight phase, I see no reason why they wouldn't get their save against overwatch fire. Am I missing something?

They've made charging it's own phase, which is kinda unnecessary but I guess makes it easier to remember you technically aren't supposed to forget to make a charge, fight an unrelated combat then say "oh right I was also going to charge those Devastators".

Even through I'm not sure I've ever seen a game where that hasn't happened.

Doh - then there is that. So, yea, no invuln.

That's a good point regarding CP expenditure. It lets you re-roll a single die, rather than a single roll.

So if you've whiffed it with a 6 and a 1, definitely worth re-rolling that 1.

Spoletta wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Desubot wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

My biggest beef so far with this edition is the unlimited overwatch

yeah its my only real sore spot on all of this.

i get its easier for book keeping. guess its going to be a lot of positioning and counter positioning to guarantee good charges.

If it's locked in at a flat 6 and we don't see the return to the at the full bs I'll be a little happier about it.

Your not factoring in wall of death guns. Flamers on things like admech and tau are INSANE now.

We're assuming that Wall of Death has changed from being a D3" roll to being the normal shooting profile.

EDIT: Also, don't the weapons have to be in range? If you make a 9+" charge those flamers are useless.

^ This. Wall of death lines will have a counter in the fast assault units than can reliably roll an 8" on a charge (almost everyone with command points).

Yep besides to worry about it means the opponent specifically designed their army to be flamer heavy. that really wont happen toooo often unless its REALLY efficient so until we see everything we wont really know.

changemod wrote:
Yeah I'm not saying it's -confusing-, I'm saying it's sloppy. If they mean more than 9 then they should say 10.

Why the hell do you think they got that FAQ question in the first place? Everything else is measured in inches, not in about an inch-ish.

If they say 10 instead of more than 9, then they are missing out on a whole inch in range..

less than 10 does not equal more than 9 in a game where range is not just measured in integers.

 Desubot wrote:

Spoletta wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Desubot wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

My biggest beef so far with this edition is the unlimited overwatch

yeah its my only real sore spot on all of this.

i get its easier for book keeping. guess its going to be a lot of positioning and counter positioning to guarantee good charges.

If it's locked in at a flat 6 and we don't see the return to the at the full bs I'll be a little happier about it.

Your not factoring in wall of death guns. Flamers on things like admech and tau are INSANE now.

We're assuming that Wall of Death has changed from being a D3" roll to being the normal shooting profile.

EDIT: Also, don't the weapons have to be in range? If you make a 9+" charge those flamers are useless.

^ This. Wall of death lines will have a counter in the fast assault units than can reliably roll an 8" on a charge (almost everyone with command points).

Yep besides to worry about it means the opponent specifically designed their army to be flamer heavy. that really wont happen toooo often unless its REALLY efficient so until we see everything we wont really know.

Flamer heaviest armies would be Rubrics and Wraithguard, everyone else is just pretending.

My Rubrics may have a mix in their unit, because splitting fire is ded usefuls.

Requoting massive quite trees without spoilers is bad forum etiquette, just as a reminder to a few folks.

Counts double for one line replies.

I don't think they've confirmed when, during the assault phase, Overwatch attacks are taken, and thus when ranges would be checked. It's quite possible that you check range AFTER the charge is made, thus allowing Flamers to almost always shoot in Overwatch (like they can now).

Which would kinda make sense. It would seem quite odd if having a larger distance you needed to run to get into combat gave you invulnerability to the flamers you're running towards.

But then, I'm a Tau player and biased. I'm not the only one who ever wanted a 9 man Crisis Suit team using nothing but flamers, right? (Average of 94.5 S4 hits!)

Fantastic news for assault armies, shame nonentity of my orks deep strike :-/

 Unusual Suspect wrote:
I don't think they've confirmed when, during the assault phase, Overwatch attacks are taken, and thus when ranges would be checked. It's quite possible that you check range AFTER the charge is made, thus allowing Flamers to almost always shoot in Overwatch (like they can now).

Which would kinda make sense. It would seem quite odd if having a larger distance you needed to run to get into combat gave you invulnerability to the flamers you're running towards.

But then, I'm a Tau player and biased. I'm not the only one who ever wanted a 9 man Crisis Suit team using nothing but flamers, right? (Average of 94.5 S4 hits!)

I'm thinking it's "declare, overwatch, roll to charge". At least you don't pull from the front.

X

apparently, this isn't thread for that...

 Megaknob wrote:
Fantastic news for assault armies, shame nonentity of my orks deep strike :-/

Well Stormboyz may be able to and also Ghaz may allow you to do so - he did last edition IIRC.

Phew, OP up to date, new Facebook summary by ClockworkZion up (don't forget to check them out if you haven't). Time to catch up on ten pages of reading. Should be quick as I can skip all the off topic discussion about old faction fluff...

Daedalus81 wrote:

 Fenris-77 wrote:
If it says that Wyches get their 4+ Inv in the fight phase, and overwatch happens during the fight phase, I see no reason why they wouldn't get their save against overwatch fire. Am I missing something?

Nothing but the actual rule itself, but it's a safe bet currently.

There is a charge phase, this is when overwatch happens, not the fight phase.

Here's the only bit of the post that mattered:

"Or I'm just an idiot."

 NivlacSupreme wrote:
That doesn't really make sense. They could just say you have to deploy at least 10" away. We are going to see WAAC players positioning 9.0000000000000000000000000000000000000001 inches away and then slightly nudging a model to make the one inch distance.

That would be cheating, because the model had to have started more than 9" away, so nudging or not, it can't ever make a 9" charge.

Because almost all write-ups in AoS is Over 9". I now have the question is Overwatch measured from the start point, the closest point or any point along the way.

The reason is a flamer has an 8" range. So, if a teleport in my terminators at 9" from you then I charge you. Are you allowed to fire the flamer at me running in? Or are you too far away to shoot me because I had to start more then 9" away from you?

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Desubot wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

My biggest beef so far with this edition is the unlimited overwatch

yeah its my only real sore spot on all of this.

i get its easier for book keeping. guess its going to be a lot of positioning and counter positioning to guarantee good charges.

If it's locked in at a flat 6 and we don't see the return to the at the full bs I'll be a little happier about it.

Your not factoring in wall of death guns. Flamers on things like admech and tau are INSANE now.

We're assuming that Wall of Death has changed from being a D3" roll to being the normal shooting profile.

EDIT: Also, don't the weapons have to be in range? If you make a 9+" charge those flamers are useless.

Sure, i am not saying things won't vary. Currently you don't need to be in range to overwatch (7th ed) and so far we have seen nothing to indicate that changed. As for wall of death being a d6 or a d3, also something to consider but I am guessing your not a DE player because 3d3 s4 auto hits when your s3 t3 6+ save may as well be a death sentence. I am not suggesting this ruins DE, far from it, I'll simply dark light the living christ out of those suits, but considering I haven't enjoyed using wyches since 3rd edition when they were actually good, I was hoping they would see more table time. Things like multiple overwatch IMHO are not good game design, when 6 units converge on one it is silly that you get to shoot up to 6 times, but when one unit assaults you shoot one time.

 NivlacSupreme wrote:
That doesn't really make sense. They could just say you have to deploy at least 10" away. We are going to see WAAC players positioning 9.0000000000000000000000000000000000000001 inches away and then slightly nudging a model to make the one inch distance.

… and if they "accidentally" place within 9" and roll and 8 on their charge and somehow are miraculously in range, you'll know they cheated and can call them on it.
Because that's what they would have done; broken the rules to gain advantage.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Desubot wrote:

Spoletta wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Desubot wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

My biggest beef so far with this edition is the unlimited overwatch

yeah its my only real sore spot on all of this.

i get its easier for book keeping. guess its going to be a lot of positioning and counter positioning to guarantee good charges.

If it's locked in at a flat 6 and we don't see the return to the at the full bs I'll be a little happier about it.

Your not factoring in wall of death guns. Flamers on things like admech and tau are INSANE now.

We're assuming that Wall of Death has changed from being a D3" roll to being the normal shooting profile.

EDIT: Also, don't the weapons have to be in range? If you make a 9+" charge those flamers are useless.

^ This. Wall of death lines will have a counter in the fast assault units than can reliably roll an 8" on a charge (almost everyone with command points).

Yep besides to worry about it means the opponent specifically designed their army to be flamer heavy. that really wont happen toooo often unless its REALLY efficient so until we see everything we wont really know.

Flamer heaviest armies would be Rubrics and Wraithguard, everyone else is just pretending.

This has to be sarcasm. I mean, you claim you play sisters