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The reason they got into space was because the old ones knew they were screwed and so placed reccessive genes that would let an ork population thrive, no matter how bloodthirsty, power hungry, and down right stupid they are. That's why some orks show a special "knack" towards a specific task. The genes that allow them to, say fix vehicles, is in every ork but it just manifests in some more than others. Also, I think the ability to wage war on an inter-planetary scale is another drive for them to become better at wielding "teknology"

Necroman wrote:

I wonder how Magic the Gathering would do against Warhammer 40k

IF you really want to know why don't you start a thread. Get opinions from all around

Commissar NIkev wrote:

Necroman wrote:

I wonder how Magic the Gathering would do against Warhammer 40k

IF you really want to know why don't you start a thread. Get opinions from all around

I'm worried it'll turn into a spamfest somewhat along the lines of, "My dad is better than your dad!" "Nu-uh!" "Yeah-huh!" "Nu-uh!"

Beside, a far more interesting idea would be putting the Magic the Gathering worlds into the Warhammer 40K verse as planets and seeing how that develops. Phyrexia will be scary, if they ever get space travel; we get something akin to Chaos/Tau/Tyranids that absorbs enemy forces to empower their own, and we also would get random portals opening and dispensing thousands of cybernetically enhanced cogboy ripoffs that for once aren't only interested in technology. Yay, another enemy for the Imperium of Man. "In the ridiculously over the top grim darkness of the future, there is only war!" The Phyrexians are grimdark, so they'll do well in Warhammer 40k.

How about the Borg, wait, damn marines use ballistic weapons, still at least lascannons would be useless...

Krellnus wrote:How about the Borg, wait, damn marines use ballistic weapons, still at least lascannons would be useless...

Space Marine goes up to Borg, screws Borg's head off. Space Marine says "ADAPT YOUR SHIELDS TO THAT BITCHES!"

Borg screws his own head back on and disintegrates space marine with wierd arm/gun thing?

Novelization SM vs Novelization Spartan would likely be a toss-up given weaponry and initiative on the fight.

I would assume that multiple impacts to the helmet of any space marine by spartan weaponry could render it damaged enough to warrant removal, then I would think another burst to the brainpan would likely win the fight for the spartan.

Of course, if the SM managed to get into melee range during this period, I would think the Spartan would be hard pressed to counter the SM's attacks. Both would have to be on the move during this, because a Spartan isn't going to last long being hit by Bolter shells.

Of course, this would be comparing a vanilla SM vs a vanilla Spartan. The most powerful spartan, Master Chief, I don't think could hold much of a candle to say, a Grey Knight Grandmaster or Calgar.

A vanilla SM vs a vanilla spartan would be a very fun comic to draw, although they would both need to die at the end to dissuade any violent debate.

--

Samus Aran vs an SM would be an interesting battle, although it would likely be even at range, with Samus having an advantage with some weapons, once in CC, I don't think Samus would stand much of a chance. She has never had much close range defenses, nor is there any real fictionalization that leans in that direction.

--

SM vs Cogs is kind of a joke, not even close. Cog weaponry is machine guns, maybe with a few lucky torque bow shots... but I'm not sure how an unmodified human is going to crack off torque bow shots while being rained upon by bolter fire. Close range the difference is even more disparate. The only thing that might stand a chance against an SM from GoW is the double-chainsaw guy which was already talked about in this thread.

--

Iron man vs an SM would be interesting, although I'm not sure what weaponry Iron Man would have that could cut through the ceramite, he is a genius and could come up with something "anti-space-marine" to get the job done I'm sure. He'd have to live through the initial encounter first.

--

Jedi vs SM, not sure. While on the approach, the Jedi would have to be dodging all the bolter fire, because he certainly isn't going to be deflecting it with his lightsaber. Once in range, I'm not sure how effective a lightsaber would be against ceramite (since there is armor in the SW universe that is anti-lightsaber), although it would likely cut through a chainsword, and perhaps a power-weapon. Although, a astartes is capable enough without a chainsword to crush an unmodified human with his gauntleted hands.

A Jedi vs a Librarian would be a better matchup. Although, perhaps not. I'd be putting my bets on the Lib.

An exceptionally powerful jedi may be able to use his powers, dark or light, effectively against a single SM. But if we're going to talk height-of-power-Luke, then he shouldn't be fighting a run-of-the-mill SM either. Maybe... a GK grandmaster

--

There are some other good examples in this thread, but it is hard to imagine much going against a bloodthirsty SM, bearing down on something with a chainsword and bolter, other than stuff from the 40k universe. Well, other than maybe stuff from the Starcraft universe... since they are almost the same.

Just because there is some armor in Star Wars that is anti-lightsaber does not mean Ceramite is anti-lightsaber.

The closest equivalents I can think of are meltas and powerswords, and those go through Ceramite just fine.

Samus vs. a Space Marine is range-dependent; at long range, she has weapons that can create black holes and shatter reality, or power bombs that disintegrate practically anything. Up close? The marine kills her due to being stronger and faster. Still, Samus is not exactly weak in close-quarters; she did fight Ridley.

Jedi vs. Librarian depends on the Jedi. Weak jedi lose pretty easily, since they tend to not even use force powers, while strong Jedi... Well, Nihilus did wipe out a planet just by speaking. Grandmaster vs. uuber powerful Jedi? Still putting it for the jedi, but a Grandmaster is definitely a threat.

A Dalek pretty much slaughters a Space Marine, if we're using new series Daleks with the shielding/flight. They have a weapon that essentially instakills too. Of course, that's assuming the Dalek kills the space Marine instead of going into a monologue and then dying horribly when the Marine rips its head off.

Borg? They die. Borg are really no match for Space Marines. They're slow, their shielding ability does not adapt to simple punches, and they're pretty weak in comparison.

I was bored


http://galefire.com/sm-vs-spartan-051710

Good points necroman, I will be the first to admit my knowledge of the fluffy side of the Star Wars universe is limited to what I've seen in the movies.

Admittedly, the movies are much better than the Star Wars fluff. You're not missing much.

daedalus-templarius wrote:I was bored

Master Chief is soooooo screwed.

That's awesome.

daedalus-templarius wrote:Novelization SM vs Novelization Spartan would likely be a toss-up given weaponry and initiative on the fight.

I would assume that multiple impacts to the helmet of any space marine by spartan weaponry could render it damaged enough to warrant removal, then I would think another burst to the brainpan would likely win the fight for the spartan.

Of course, if the SM managed to get into melee range during this period, I would think the Spartan would be hard pressed to counter the SM's attacks. Both would have to be on the move during this, because a Spartan isn't going to last long being hit by Bolter shells.

Of course, this would be comparing a vanilla SM vs a vanilla Spartan. The most powerful spartan, Master Chief, I don't think could hold much of a candle to say, a Grey Knight Grandmaster or Calgar.

A vanilla SM vs a vanilla spartan would be a very fun comic to draw, although they would both need to die at the end to dissuade any violent debate.

--

Samus Aran vs an SM would be an interesting battle, although it would likely be even at range, with Samus having an advantage with some weapons, once in CC, I don't think Samus would stand much of a chance. She has never had much close range defenses, nor is there any real fictionalization that leans in that direction.

--

SM vs Cogs is kind of a joke, not even close. Cog weaponry is machine guns, maybe with a few lucky torque bow shots... but I'm not sure how an unmodified human is going to crack off torque bow shots while being rained upon by bolter fire. Close range the difference is even more disparate. The only thing that might stand a chance against an SM from GoW is the double-chainsaw guy which was already talked about in this thread.

--

Iron man vs an SM would be interesting, although I'm not sure what weaponry Iron Man would have that could cut through the ceramite, he is a genius and could come up with something "anti-space-marine" to get the job done I'm sure. He'd have to live through the initial encounter first.

--

Jedi vs SM, not sure. While on the approach, the Jedi would have to be dodging all the bolter fire, because he certainly isn't going to be deflecting it with his lightsaber. Once in range, I'm not sure how effective a lightsaber would be against ceramite (since there is armor in the SW universe that is anti-lightsaber), although it would likely cut through a chainsword, and perhaps a power-weapon. Although, a astartes is capable enough without a chainsword to crush an unmodified human with his gauntleted hands.

A Jedi vs a Librarian would be a better matchup. Although, perhaps not. I'd be putting my bets on the Lib.

An exceptionally powerful jedi may be able to use his powers, dark or light, effectively against a single SM. But if we're going to talk height-of-power-Luke, then he shouldn't be fighting a run-of-the-mill SM either. Maybe... a GK grandmaster

--

There are some other good examples in this thread, but it is hard to imagine much going against a bloodthirsty SM, bearing down on something with a chainsword and bolter, other than stuff from the 40k universe. Well, other than maybe stuff from the Starcraft universe... since they are almost the same.

You realize Spartans use regular machine guns and battle rifles, like the cog, right? Spartans get, what, 7.62mm while Marines get 30mm rocket shells?

It looks like the Marine is thinking "I will rip off your head and crap down your neck, in the name of the Emperor"

Yes, Space Marines crap in the name of the Emperor

S_P

Retribution wrote:
You realize Spartans use regular machine guns and battle rifles, like the cog, right? Spartans get, what, 7.62mm while Marines get 30mm rocket shells?

Yes, and like I said, a genetically altered human who never misses, and could perhaps land enough shots on a SM helmet, could damage said helmet enough to allow bullets to pass into the squishy meat below. For the battle rifles and other machine guns, I foresee that as being the only way to take down an SM, the armor everywhere else is simply far too thick, and even if bullets got through, they would do little to the SMs enhanced fortitude. Now, if the Spartan had a laser, things might be different, as we could probably agree that is basically a hand-held lascannon like a devastator rolls with.

A Cog may have the same kind of machine guns and battle rifles, but they can't move a super-speed, never miss (again, we're talking about the novelization of Spartans), and have super-strength. If a Spartan surprised a SM in a melee combat, the Spartan could likely do heavy damage, as the two are probably equivalent in terms of strength, at least as much for it to matter. If the battle was a energy sword vs a power sword, I would say the battle would be a toss-up and go either way, perhaps slanted in favor of the SM since I am not sure how much blade training Spartans receive, if any.

And I believe the actual size of Bolter rounds in the fiction is .50gauge, and Heavy Bolter rounds are .75gauge.

Although, by looking at the guns you would think they fire coke-cans.

The barrel on this actually looks about right, but some of the art in the rulebooks and other stuff make the barrel look absolutely enormous.

Battle rifle fires 9.5x40mm High-Powered Semi-Armor-Piercing rounds in 3-shot bursts. A clip of 36 rounds would likely damage a SM helmet to the point where it would at least have to be removed. At least if all the rounds hit their mark. I imagine little damage would result on them hitting anywhere else.

daedalus-templarius wrote:Battle rifle fires 9.5x40mm High-Powered Semi-Armor-Piercing rounds in 3-shot bursts. A clip of 36 rounds would likely damage a SM helmet to the point where it would at least have to be removed. At least if all the rounds hit their mark. I imagine little damage would result on them hitting anywhere else.

You're fething kidding, right? 9.5x40mm shells VS a Space Marine Helmet is PRETTY MUCH THE SAME as 9.5X40mm shells vs M1A2 Abrams Main Battle Tank. We're talking about Armour ATLEAST 38,000 YEARS more advanced than we have RIGHT NOW. And the way SM Armour is described - it's built the same way as tank armour is now a days - layers of layers of layers of anti-ballistic heat disperion. At best a 9.5x40mm shell would ANNOY a space marine in his armour. Much the same a tank driver hears the ever amusing *PLINK!* when someone is STUPID enough to shoot their tank with small arms.

Spartans would get their Gak pushed in, hard.

you said perhaps land enough shots.....dude by the time the gun rechambered more rounds for the spartan, he's already dead cause the marine has him in his sights and is tearing him apart with his Holier than Thou cries for the Emperor and bolter fire.

Nuruhuine wrote:

daedalus-templarius wrote:Battle rifle fires 9.5x40mm High-Powered Semi-Armor-Piercing rounds in 3-shot bursts. A clip of 36 rounds would likely damage a SM helmet to the point where it would at least have to be removed. At least if all the rounds hit their mark. I imagine little damage would result on them hitting anywhere else.

You're fething kidding, right? 9.5x40mm shells VS a Space Marine Helmet is PRETTY MUCH THE SAME as 9.5X40mm shells vs M1A2 Abrams Main Battle Tank. We're talking about Armour ATLEAST 38,000 YEARS more advanced than we have RIGHT NOW. And the way SM Armour is described - it's built the same way as tank armour is now a days - layers of layers of layers of anti-ballistic heat disperion. At best a 9.5x40mm shell would ANNOY a space marine in his armour. Much the same a tank driver hears the ever amusing *PLINK!* when someone is STUPID enough to shoot their tank with small arms.

Spartans would get their Gak pushed in, hard.

I imagine this would be the case everywhere else on the space marine besides the helmet, I doubt it is as heavily armored as, lets say, the chest. Enough rounds of any armor piercing ammunition would cause enough damage to disable it the systems within it, prompting its removal. AP rounds aren't going to just bounce off, they won't do damage to the chest, shoulders or legs most likely, but enough sustained fire could crack the helmet.

If you have some fiction where they actually talk about the strength of the helmet, I'll be glad to read it, but there are plenty of cases where a helmet takes just a few hits and is scrambled, necessitating its removal. I'm not exactly saying that the Battle rifle shells would breach the helmet, but would damage it enough to where the SM is forced to remove it. That would be the only chance a Spartan would have with regular weaponry.

I'm not trying to be biased to either side, but I am trying to give both sides a fair chance based on their fiction. The Spartans don't have much of a chance, so I am trying to figure out how they would succeed, even though the odds are greatly stacked against them in a fight where both are armed with standard weapons. A bolter is a hell of a lot more powerful than a battlerifle.

Commissar NIkev wrote:you said perhaps land enough shots.....dude by the time the gun rechambered more rounds for the spartan, he's already dead cause the marine has him in his sights and is tearing him apart with his Holier than Thou cries for the Emperor and bolter fire.

Don't forget that the novelization of Spartans has them move at super-speeds and perform crazy feats all the time as well. I imagine that one(spartan) may be able to avoid getting plowed by bolter shells immediately. But like I said, I don't know if they would actually be able to get a clip off either. Odds are not favorable to the spartan in this matchup without going to bigger weapons. Of course, then the SM has to have bigger weapons as well.

Doing a comic of a SM with a lascannon and a Spartan with a Spartan Laser would be kind of... boring.

daedalus-templarius wrote:A bolter is a hell of a lot more powerful than a battlerifle.

Doing a comic of a SM with a lascannon and a Spartan with a Spartan Laser would be kind of... boring.

Dude, the Battlerifle bows before the Bolter!



That wuold be a boring Comic but if there were a bunch of them fighting then that would actually be kinda cool.....well.....in my head its kinda epically playing out.

daedalus-templarius wrote:I imagine this would be the case everywhere else on the space marine besides the helmet, I doubt it is as heavily armored as, lets say, the chest. Enough rounds of any armor piercing ammunition would cause enough damage to disable it the systems within it, prompting its removal. AP rounds aren't going to just bounce off, they won't do damage to the chest, shoulders or legs most likely, but enough sustained fire could crack the helmet.

Again, this is ignoring the fact that Space Marine armour is designed to withstand high-velocity explosive impacts. The outter layer of a Space Marines Power Armour is made of Ceramite. Which, unless you're really dumb, is obviously some form of Ceramic. But not like your toilet. More like, as previously stated, an M1A2's Ceramic coating. Several thousand years more advanced... And suprise suprise, bullets bounce off of an M1A2 unless they're coming from... oh I don't know, maybe an A-10's Gau 8.

Believe me, I understand where you're coming from in trying to make things "even" or possibly even "fair" for Spartans, but the truth of the matter is a Spartan would pose as much of a threat to a SM as an IG would. More advanced weaponry, armour, tracking systems, religious indoctrination, genetic enhancement WELL BEYOND that of a Spartans... All this adds up to Master Chief Stew. It would take a lot more than a 9.5x40mm APR to render a SM's helmet unoperational. Spartans don't use Bolters or Lascanons, they use bullets, fired from standard small arms machineguns, just not anywhere near enough power.

Now... scorpion v preadator...

EagleArk wrote:Now... scorpion v preadator...

Mortal Kombat Scorpion Vs Predator(Jamaican lookin thing)
Insect Scorpion Vs Predator (Jamaica)
What type of Scorpion and Predator

Commissar NIkev wrote:

felixthecat345 wrote:

Nuruhuine wrote:

Necroman wrote:But if pure awesome alone could defeat Space Marines, wouldn't Orks always win?

No. Orks are 96% pure fail and 4% ridiculous bs.

Sorry, I fething HATE Orks - stupidest race in 40k. I won't go into details as to why, but if you must know go read my WIP thread, it's in there somewhere

ps Orks are only good for their silly smiley faces

I agree, it was kind of ridiculous to include a race like that who would clearly be massacred by guns, and tbh the whole fluff of them is dumb. Plus, imagine 100 ork boyz are charging at you from 1km away. You have three hbs. They have short ranged sluggas and choppas. The hbs would clearly win, coz there range is probably about 5 km at least to compete with modern .50 cal mgs. Plus rapid fire, the impossibility of missing and powerful rounds.

But when is there ever just 100 boyz charging you? Its always at least 1000.....and you'll eventually run out of ammo

If there were 1000, just get 15 hbs.

felixthecat345 wrote:

Commissar NIkev wrote:

felixthecat345 wrote:

Nuruhuine wrote:

Necroman wrote:But if pure awesome alone could defeat Space Marines, wouldn't Orks always win?

No. Orks are 96% pure fail and 4% ridiculous bs.

Sorry, I fething HATE Orks - stupidest race in 40k. I won't go into details as to why, but if you must know go read my WIP thread, it's in there somewhere

ps Orks are only good for their silly smiley faces

I agree, it was kind of ridiculous to include a race like that who would clearly be massacred by guns, and tbh the whole fluff of them is dumb. Plus, imagine 100 ork boyz are charging at you from 1km away. You have three hbs. They have short ranged sluggas and choppas. The hbs would clearly win, coz there range is probably about 5 km at least to compete with modern .50 cal mgs. Plus rapid fire, the impossibility of missing and powerful rounds.

But when is there ever just 100 boyz charging you? Its always at least 1000.....and you'll eventually run out of ammo

If there were 1000, just get 15 hbs.

Then they fall back and return with 10 thousand orks.....

Commissar NIkev wrote:Then they fall back and return with 10 thousand orks.....

And then.... EXTERMINATUS!! YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY!! FIRE FOR EVERYONE!

Nuruhuine wrote:

Commissar NIkev wrote:Then they fall back and return with 10 thousand orks.....

And then.... EXTERMINATUS!! YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY!! FIRE FOR EVERYONE!

yeeeeeea

daedalus-templarius wrote:

Retribution wrote:
You realize Spartans use regular machine guns and battle rifles, like the cog, right? Spartans get, what, 7.62mm while Marines get 30mm rocket shells?

Yes, and like I said, a genetically altered human who never misses, and could perhaps land enough shots on a SM helmet, could damage said helmet enough to allow bullets to pass into the squishy meat below. For the battle rifles and other machine guns, I foresee that as being the only way to take down an SM, the armor everywhere else is simply far too thick, and even if bullets got through, they would do little to the SMs enhanced fortitude. Now, if the Spartan had a laser, things might be different, as we could probably agree that is basically a hand-held lascannon like a devastator rolls with.

A Cog may have the same kind of machine guns and battle rifles, but they can't move a super-speed, never miss (again, we're talking about the novelization of Spartans), and have super-strength. If a Spartan surprised a SM in a melee combat, the Spartan could likely do heavy damage, as the two are probably equivalent in terms of strength, at least as much for it to matter. If the battle was a energy sword vs a power sword, I would say the battle would be a toss-up and go either way, perhaps slanted in favor of the SM since I am not sure how much blade training Spartans receive, if any.

And I believe the actual size of Bolter rounds in the fiction is .50gauge, and Heavy Bolter rounds are .75gauge.

Although, by looking at the guns you would think they fire coke-cans.

The barrel on this actually looks about right, but some of the art in the rulebooks and other stuff make the barrel look absolutely enormous.

Battle rifle fires 9.5x40mm High-Powered Semi-Armor-Piercing rounds in 3-shot bursts. A clip of 36 rounds would likely damage a SM helmet to the point where it would at least have to be removed. At least if all the rounds hit their mark. I imagine little damage would result on them hitting anywhere else.

Wait a minute, bolters are .75?! That's ridiculously underpowered. Realisticly, in game terms they should ID regular humans. That's what a modern day .50 does. But, I know, that would be ridiculously unfair, etc, etc, but in fluff they already do that. So everything's as it should be.

Spike's Deadliest Warrior needs to do Space Marine vs. Spartan Super-Soldier!

Whew! I don't understand what's bringing all the anti-ork hate. We all have a race we don't think should exist, chill. Plus, Shokk Attack Gun pwns all marines.

As for the Marine V. Spartan conversation, I don't even like Halo and I'm willing to give the Chief more than a passing nod.

Close Combat: Marine. Considering that there is no real equal to the chainsword on the Spartan side (without resorting to a energy sword, basically just a power weapon) I'm doing this one, literally, hand to hand. Simply put, Marines win this one. Marines are much bigger, so physics agrees with them, and much stronger (comes with the bigger territory) Realistically, I don't think there is much a spartan could do to hurt an armored marine in a combat such as this. Also, both are equally trained, so that doesn't matter much.

Accuracy: Equal (Both are modified to be wicked-good shots)

Firearms: Depends. If you go with both of their stock weapons (bolter for marine and battle rifle for spartan) a marine has a massive advantage at close range with his .75 calibre exploding rockets, however, at farther distances I would give spartan the nod. Firing his 9.5x40mm rounds he has superior accuracy from a distance (bolt rounds are rocket propelled, after losing their fuel, they drop like a stone, and this is why they are relatively short-ranged) but I'll admit, these rounds are a bit piddly compared to the reinforced ceramite armor, that is, unless your firer has some sort of super-human accuracy to hit weak points....

Toughness: Marine. By a lot. Spartans are engineered to be tough, and they are damn so, for human standards that is. Marines on the other hand are so far modified, they are hardly human anymore, and can take injury that would put a spartan down many times over. Extra heart, improved blood, bone chest plate..... need I go on? Spartans are tough, yeah, and they may be a modifed human, but they aren't a superhuman like a Marine.

Armor: Marine. Takes the cake, once again. I'm not sure how much detail I really need to go into, but marine armor is basically a small, human shaped tank. Spartan armor is good, great even, and may be able to stop a few bolter rounds. But Marine armor can take 9.5x40mm
all day, aside from weak points that both parties have (and so can not really be factored in)

Agility: Spartan. Spartans may not be a walking tank, but make up for it with superior speed and movement. Yeah, marine armor isn't clumsy due to black carapace, but it's still big, heavy, and restrictive. Spartans trade for protection for speed (and jumping for goodness sakes) in this matchoff.

Special Equipment: Depends. Let's face it, both can bring guns to the yard to make one another cry, and so saying one has a lascannon or one has a spartan laser is just useless. The only thing I really added this section to mention is the integral shield in the spartan armor. This is just my guessing, but I'd give a shield two to three hits, tops, from a bolter. Now this doesn't seem like much, but that's if you forget that this shield recharges. Marine armor integrity doesn't. So, to win above honor, a Spartan could potentially peek-a-boo and take shots to wear a Marine down while keeping a solid shield.


Overall, Marine gets the nod. However, with the points I made withstanding, I wouldn't count a Spartan out.

Fl@nked wrote:Whew! I don't understand what's bringing all the anti-ork hate. We all have a race we don't think should exist, chill. Plus, Shokk Attack Gun pwns all marines.

As for the Marine V. Spartan conversation, I don't even like Halo and I'm willing to give the Chief more than a passing nod.

Close Combat: Marine. Considering that there is no real equal to the chainsword on the Spartan side (without resorting to a energy sword, basically just a power weapon) I'm doing this one, literally, hand to hand. Simply put, Marines win this one. Marines are much bigger, so physics agrees with them, and much stronger (comes with the bigger territory) Realistically, I don't think there is much a spartan could do to hurt an armored marine in a combat such as this. Also, both are equally trained, so that doesn't matter much.

Accuracy: Equal (Both are modified to be wicked-good shots)

Firearms: Depends. If you go with both of their stock weapons (bolter for marine and battle rifle for spartan) a marine has a massive advantage at close range with his .75 calibre exploding rockets, however, at farther distances I would give spartan the nod. Firing his 9.5x40mm rounds he has superior accuracy from a distance (bolt rounds are rocket propelled, after losing their fuel, they drop like a stone, and this is why they are relatively short-ranged) but I'll admit, these rounds are a bit piddly compared to the reinforced ceramite armor, that is, unless your firer has some sort of super-human accuracy to hit weak points....

Toughness: Marine. By a lot. Spartans are engineered to be tough, and they are damn so, for human standards that is. Marines on the other hand are so far modified, they are hardly human anymore, and can take injury that would put a spartan down many times over. Extra heart, improved blood, bone chest plate..... need I go on? Spartans are tough, yeah, and they may be a modifed human, but they aren't a superhuman like a Marine.

Armor: Marine. Takes the cake, once again. I'm not sure how much detail I really need to go into, but marine armor is basically a small, human shaped tank. Spartan armor is good, great even, and may be able to stop a few bolter rounds. But Marine armor can take 9.5x40mm
all day, aside from weak points that both parties have (and so can not really be factored in)

Agility: Spartan. Spartans may not be a walking tank, but make up for it with superior speed and movement. Yeah, marine armor isn't clumsy due to black carapace, but it's still big, heavy, and restrictive. Spartans trade for protection for speed (and jumping for goodness sakes) in this matchoff.

Special Equipment: Depends. Let's face it, both can bring guns to the yard to make one another cry, and so saying one has a lascannon or one has a spartan laser is just useless. The only thing I really added this section to mention is the integral shield in the spartan armor. This is just my guessing, but I'd give a shield two to three hits, tops, from a bolter. Now this doesn't seem like much, but that's if you forget that this shield recharges. Marine armor integrity doesn't. So, to win above honor, a Spartan could potentially peek-a-boo and take shots to wear a Marine down while keeping a solid shield.


Overall, Marine gets the nod. However, with the points I made withstanding, I wouldn't count a Spartan out.

I agree, I think Spartan gets the nod as the next best thing. For feth's sake a Space Marine's bones are made out of ceramite; the same material as the autocannon-stopping armour he wears. Space Marines can get a sheild too (Iron-Halo) but its standard issue on spartans though.

We'll have to wait for The Ultramarine Video Game to see how high a Space Marine Can jump!

felixthecat345 wrote:
Wait a minute, bolters are .75?! That's ridiculously underpowered.

Except you're forgetting they're .75 Cal -rockets-. Not Bullets. When Bolter shells hit soft targets, they activate a delay so that they penetrate the target's body and explode from within.

Plus, you've got frag rounds that burst on impact and spray metal shards everywhere, Acid rounds that spray, well, acid on impact, Napalm rounds that explode in a cloud of promethium that ignites on contact with the air, DU rounds, etc...

So no. They're not at all underpowered. Plus, if a Dragonfly can kill someone, I'm pretty sure a Bolter would wreck them, right?

And KC, Spartans and Space Marines have nothing on my Oblivion character. He could jump over City walls. No joke.

Nuruhuine wrote:

Again, this is ignoring the fact that Space Marine armour is designed to withstand high-velocity explosive impacts. The outter layer of a Space Marines Power Armour is made of Ceramite. Which, unless you're really dumb, is obviously some form of Ceramic. But not like your toilet. More like, as previously stated, an M1A2's Ceramic coating. Several thousand years more advanced... And suprise suprise, bullets bounce off of an M1A2 unless they're coming from... oh I don't know, maybe an A-10's Gau 8.

Believe me, I understand where you're coming from in trying to make things "even" or possibly even "fair" for Spartans, but the truth of the matter is a Spartan would pose as much of a threat to a SM as an IG would. More advanced weaponry, armour, tracking systems, religious indoctrination, genetic enhancement WELL BEYOND that of a Spartans... All this adds up to Master Chief Stew. It would take a lot more than a 9.5x40mm APR to render a SM's helmet unoperational. Spartans don't use Bolters or Lascanons, they use bullets, fired from standard small arms machineguns, just not anywhere near enough power.

I have a feeling a spartan would be a much more significant threat than a guardsman, being they are engineered to also have super-speed and super-strength, not to mention a shield that is basically an invulnerable save. A BR is probably more powerful than a lasgun, and a lasgun can render a Astartes helmet inoperable in a few hits (as is mentioned in several books, in addition to ballistic weapons like snub guns, etc).

If you can agree that a Battle Rifle is at least equivalently powerful to a lasgun, which it has to at least be, since there are comparisons to assault rifles in the lore itself. As for the weapons being more advanced, a bolter is certainly more boomy, but lacks the range than a long-range rifle has, they don't snipe with bolters. The Lascannon and Spartan laser are roughly equivalent. Spartan armor is weaker, but likely leaves the wearer more agile and faster than bulky marine armor, although the astartes is much more durable. However, the recharging shield would help, and could likely take at least one or two bolter rounds before failing.

This is turning into less a discussion about the relative strengths and weaknesses of Spartans and Astartes and more about why the Bolter is bigger and badder than everything else.

Lets give them both plasma from their respective universes, and see who can melt who first. Plasma in halo is absurd, same for 40k; and if that's the case, spartan wins because the shield will at least take the first shot, while the SM helmet will go all bubbly to the first plasma strike.