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The Crippler wrote:I keep seeing the wychsuit mentioned in the wargear items, but no description of it. Can anyone confirm for me what it does?

I think it is just the name for the armour wyches wear now (akin to how Marines have a Power Armour wargear instead of a super magical 3+ armour save skin).

Gwar! is right, it is just a special name for a 6+ save.

When you purchase a unit of 3 Haemonculi do they operate independently or as 1 unit? Do each Haemonculus get a free pain token?

They are each seperate IC's and they each come with 1 pain token.

Gwar! wrote:

The Crippler wrote:I keep seeing the wychsuit mentioned in the wargear items, but no description of it. Can anyone confirm for me what it does?

I think it is just the name for the armour wyches wear now (akin to how Marines have a Power Armour wargear instead of a super magical 3+ armour save skin).

I was hoping there was something else to it. 6+ saves don't deserve their own wargear name. For example, see Codex Orks.

nope, its a trend GW has been doing for a while now. It's just like in the Nids dex, all the different saves have a different name, even for gants.

Just Dave wrote:Well at the very least they (Mandrakes) could work well for tying up enemy units whilst the raiders close or whatever.

Fancy way of calling them 'cannon fodder', which should never be the function of an Elite unit. "I'm gonna tie up the enemy with my Elites so my Troops can get in and kill stuff!" Sounds backward to me.

Or there could be a lot more to them than it seems. I personally believe something could be said for their manoeuvrability and stealth...

I really want to believe that, but it appears that Mandrakes use maneuverability and stealth to rush to their deaths.
They are slightly better than they used to be, but that tiny improvement is nullified by the backdrop of 5th edition. Their horribleness was merely scaled up with the rest of the game, and they remain as bad as ever. It makes me sick.

Archonate wrote:

Just Dave wrote:Well at the very least they (Mandrakes) could work well for tying up enemy units whilst the raiders close or whatever.

Fancy way of calling them 'cannon fodder', which should never be the function of an Elite unit. "I'm gonna tie up the enemy with my Elites so my Troops can get in and kill stuff!" Sounds backward to me.

Or there could be a lot more to them than it seems. I personally believe something could be said for their manoeuvrability and stealth...

I really want to believe that, but it appears that Mandrakes use maneuverability and stealth to rush to their deaths.
They are slightly better than they used to be, but that tiny improvement is nullified by the backdrop of 5th edition. Their horribleness was merely scaled up with the rest of the game, and they remain as bad as ever. It makes me sick.

Looking at the codex entry - there really is nothing else to them, which is disappointing. The models are fantastic. (Maybe the Decapitator helps out their entry?)

puma713 wrote:(Maybe the Decapitator helps out their entry?)

Well he was a total loner in the last Codex. Couldn't join squads and had no sway over anything. But yeah, my only hope is that he now makes Mandrakes viable somehow.

puma713 wrote:Looking at the codex entry - there really is nothing else to them, which is disappointing. The models are fantastic. (Maybe the Decapitator helps out their entry?)

Nope, he's an HQ, totally separate and he's like a DE lictor.

They just need rending. Or power weapons. Or hell, even poison.

Scottywan82 wrote:They just need rending. Or power weapons. Or hell, even poison.

Exactly! They have no bite. No sharp edge whatsoever! Any one of the above rules would make them worth using, and they're all justifiable! Such a needless waste of what could have been an awesome unit...

If Haemonculi are IC's and the whole sharing the pain rule means that both the character and the unit he is with get receive pain tokens together which they pool, would that make his unit start with FNP and FC?

If 1 Haemonculus joined a unit of Wyches, they would have 1 pain token together. If the Haemonculus left the unit you would have to split the tokens as evenly as possible, so one of the units would have 0 the other would have 1. If they, together, kill a whole unit the Haemonculus would get a token and the Wyches would get a token making 3. This is how I understand it. Right or Wrong?

Sigmatron wrote:If 1 Haemonculus joined a unit of Wyches, they would have 1 pain token together. If the Haemonculus left the unit you would have to split the tokens as evenly as possible, so one of the units would have 0 the other would have 1. If they, together, kill a whole unit the Haemonculus would get a token and the Wyches would get a token making 3. This is how I understand it. Right or Wrong?

Wrong. While the Haemonculus is a part of the Wyches, he is a -part of the unit. If the unit, as 1, kills another unit, the unit gets a token. That would give the entire unit 2. If the Haemonculus then leaves, he leaves with 1 and the unit keeps 1. If the unit has 3, then you have to choose who gets the extra.

Edit: While the Haemonculus is with a unit, he ceases to be an IC until CC attacks are resolved or until he leaves. This is the reasoning behind it.

Was in at my local GW and was having a flick through the codex and OMG!

Grotesques are soo cheap for what they do, not sure what there special rules do or there extra wargear but im defo for converting some Ogre kingdom bulls!


Also just to say thanks to everyone for the information from here, been a big help

Or you could wait for the tasty new grotesque models to come out

chaos0xomega wrote:I kinda wish that either the Raiders were cheaper or they included some of those upgrades as standard... Its going to be supremely tempting to take 100pt raiders that are louded to the gills with the necessary survivability upgrades plus everything else.

Don't do it. These things are paper thin. Anything more than naked or maybe one upgrade risks wasting too many points.

Anyone who has seen the codex know if the Archon has Power through Pain?

I wonder if mass infantry rush 3x 20 unit of warriors with a haemonclus to give fnp... that's 60 fnp dudes with assorted goodies...

What I'm wondering is which IC's have Power Through Pain? I've noticed that none of the rumors have mentioned that Archons, Lelith, Vect, etc. have Power Through Pain. Can they benefit from tokens?

You'd think, "Of course, if the troops can, then the HQ's certainly can!" But, we haven't heard anything to that effect yet. Just wondering if anyone remembered from looking at the codex.

Edit: Ninja'd by Sigmatron.

reds8n wrote:
Can we please NOT post links to illegal scans, pictures etc etc of this, or indeed any other copyright protected materials please. Your willingness to selflessly help your fellow gamers by providing such services is commendable, but not something we want all over our nice and public boards. Posts relating to such will be deleted and appropriate action taken against people if needs be.

Fair - Not as bad as whineseer - even **asking** if such things have been leaked on the internet gets you a warning and a whole 50+ page thread lock. Go nazi whineseer mods! Way to stifle a thread. Yay for fair handed dakka mods :-)

Phototoxin wrote:

reds8n wrote:
Can we please NOT post links to illegal scans, pictures etc etc of this, or indeed any other copyright protected materials please. Your willingness to selflessly help your fellow gamers by providing such services is commendable, but not something we want all over our nice and public boards. Posts relating to such will be deleted and appropriate action taken against people if needs be.

Fair - Not as bad as whineseer - even **asking** if such things have been leaked on the internet gets you a warning and a whole 50+ page thread lock. Go nazi whineseer mods! Way to stifle a thread. Yay for fair handed dakka mods :-)

We'll they've already reached their terrible posting quota and locked any interesting threads, so I wouldn't bother going over there for Dark Eldar info.

Well this is it... LO is dead... whineseer is full of dark eldar basically! Dakka are more like the orcs... everyones equal- some are just bigger than others

DAKKA! DAKKA! DAKKA!

Anyway : on topic... how do we thing the price of raiders... (2x a rhino) will fare on their use?

They seem really, really strong. Gonna be a hard army to beat. I wish orkz got all these cool special rules >_> If Dark Eldar get stronger for clearing squads, orkz should too!

Phototoxin wrote:Anyway : on topic... how do we thing the price of raiders... (2x a rhino) will fare on their use?

I doubt the point cost will affect much, honestly. Previously, they were 55 points and if you wanted Nightshields they were 70. A Raider with Nightshields or Flicker Field is... 70. Both for 80 and you probably don't need both on every raider. I pre-ordered a bunch and will probably convert a couple Venoms out of Eldar vypers just for the option on MSU units. I see kitted out Raiders for my wyches and incubi, Venoms or cheap Raiders on my Warrior units depending on whether I need the Dark Lance/Disintegrator or would rather have the cheap transport.

The Crippler wrote:I keep seeing the wychsuit mentioned in the wargear items, but no description of it. Can anyone confirm for me what it does?

It just covers the nipples and any 'personal bits'. I think these will soon become wargear for Sanguinary Guard...

Haven't read the last 23 pages, so apologies if/when I repeat some stuff.

I'm a DE player of some veterancy, and I spent the best of an hour earlier going through and analysing the new codex, and was struck by several things. I'll summarise my thoughts in the following:-

Weaponry

-Splinter cannons are assault 4/heavy 6. So better.

-The disentegrator has been changed into the disentegrator cannon. It's now a 36" range Strength 5 AP 3 Heavy 3 gun. Basically a mix of the two already existing modes into one.

-The Blaster has had it's range extended to 18"

-One of the aircraft has access to something called a Void Lance, which is identical to a Dark Lance, except it's Strength 9.

-There's been an addition of a Heat Lance, which is Strength 6 Melta Lance with a short range that's an assault weapon. Either 18" or 24", I forget.

-Vehicles can take a new bit of wargear(shimmer shields?) that grants a 5+ invulnerable save. Venom has automatically, raider and ravager get for 10 points.

-Night shield intact, and same point cost.

HQ

Vect weighs in at 240 points without his dais as a foot model with special rules. The dais is 200 points more, and he needs to have a full squad of 9 other models to put in it. In other words, taking him will eat up a HUGE chunk of points.

-The shadow field is intact as per usual, at 5 points more than in the old codex.

-Decapitator is still there, and can be placed anywhere on the table, but can't assault that turn. In other words, he's like a souped up sly Marbo, but at about 140 points, a bit of a points sink.

-Lelith Hesperax is insane, and has some amazing special rules to get more attacks. Something to do with adding a number of attacks equal to an opponents weapon skill.

Elite

-There are, as already mentioned newer elite versions of the wyches and warriors. The statlines are identical, except for the addition of +1 attack.

-The new elite warriors can have up to 4 of the newer assault weapons per squad, and the minimums quad size is 3. So expect squads of 5 with 4 blasters in the new Venoms. The elite warriors were 13 points apiece.

-The new Grotesques look nice at first with wounds, toughness, attacks, and strength. They alos get a pain token when placed on the field, so feel no pain as well. However, like the new big monster for the beastmasters, they suffer from Ogryn syndrome. At 35 points apiece, it's debatable as to whether they could stand up to the likes of the hammernators they almost cost as much as.

-Wracks are 10 points, and being toughness 3, won't last long even with feel no pain. Still a dubious unit.

-Incubi are now 22 points and can take either transport, making them quite feasible.

-Mandrakes have no power weapons. They basically get stealth, move through cover, and infiltrate, along with their shooting attack after killing something. A 5+ Invulnerable save too. But at 15 points, at toughness 3, probably a waste of points.

Troops

-Warriors are now 9 points apiece. The options for carrying heavy weapons such as Dark Lances has been limited to one per ten warriors in the squad. This effectively kills the Sniper Squad stone dead.

-Wyches have had the barrier lowered to 10 points apiece, meaning they're now far cheaper to field en masse.

[Fast Attack[b/]

-Scourges have a 4+ save, and a greater array of weaponry, but weigh in pricey at 22 points. Will work best as anti-infantry, in order to allow them to maximise their new standard Heavy 3 gun. So splinter cannons would be the best loadout.

-Hellions still unimpressive.


Heavy Support

-Ravagers have been dropped to 105 points apiece, and disintegrator cannons can be swapped in free of points cost.

-The Cronos basically has 2 attacks instead of the Talos's D6, and is strength 5 instead of 7. In exchange though, it has an AP3 flamer weapon, and if it kills a model, it can give a pain counter to any unit within 12". It can also upgrade to get a ranged weapon that does the same thing. It weighs in at 80 points to the Talos's 100.

-The new fighter craft is damn good points value looking at the weapons loadout. Possibly the most Competitive new unit. Get's two dark lances, 4 missiles, and a splinter cannon.

In other words, apart from the new aircraft, a lot of the new units aren't actually very good points wise. I'd rank The Venom has potential, and the Cronos has the possibility of good synergy. The new warrior elites will basically be the equivalent of guard vets, dropping with with large numbers of heavy weapons. Scourges are too pricey to be adequately competitive I think, although depending on the army, they could just about be feasible.

Mandrakes are a waste of points, and grotesques suffer ogryn syndrome. There's a lot of effects in the HQ choices as noted earlier, from redeploying units, to taking hellions as troops, but these often cost large amounts of points. I'd need to play a few games to test their actual worth before proclaiming them of use or note.

The regular warrior squads are now more highly priced, and can't take as many heavy weapons, so I have a feeling they'll be supplanted by the now far more reasonably priced wyches. They simply don't have the reasonably price, or the killpower any more, thus rendering them far less effective.


That's my evaluation after a brief 45 mins or so with the codex.

A fair bit of fluff has changed, especially with regard to Vect and the foundation of the DE. Reads well though.

Kroothawk wrote:Added most of todays info in the first page summary (bright red this time), but it is already too much as you can see.
Guess it is about time to stop updating it.

thanks soo much to you and all the others for the great info - loved the DE since day one and greatly enjoy playing them till now - looks like this will continue

Anyone got any more info on Vechts ex Lady Malys - I am intrigued by her - hope she gets a model to match Lelith. Is she Archon stats and coolness -or something else?

Glad Shadowfields are still in - great fun - even when they fail that one save...............

well certinaly this has brightened up my year

Ketara wrote:

A fair bit of fluff has changed, especially with regard to Vect and the foundation of the DE. Reads well though.

Fluff and DE always cracks me up.. I sure hope a fair bit of fluff has changed considering the old codex had like half a paragraph of fluff

Ketara wrote:A fair bit of fluff has changed, especially with regard to Vect and the foundation of the DE. Reads well though.

anything you can remember specifically / want to share

fluff in the old codex - glancing through about 7-8 pages out of 50 odd plus some sidebars