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@Ketara

Couple things you had wrong there:

-Wracks are S3 T4
-The new scourge weapon is Assault 3

Otherwise I'd agree with some of the things you said. I think Warriors are almost only going to be seen as Elites. The basic ones have to compete w/Wyches, Wracks, and Hellions (Depending on your HQ's) where they just come up short.

looks like mandrakes are the Dark Eldar's patented dud unit. Everyone codex comes with at least one.

Originally in the fluff, Vect was the one who set up Commoragh by fleeing into the webway during the fall. Now it's changed.

Basically, some of the original eldar princes got a bit paranoid prior to the fall, and moved out to colonise the webway as their own private fiefdoms. So they set up a lot of cities. Commorragh was simply the greatest of these. Commoragh itself is described as being a mountain next to a molehill in comparison to an Imperial Hive City.

Basically Vect as a single lowly prince crippled and towed into commoragh a Salamander battle barge. The salamanders set off a signal, allowing more salamanders to invade commorragh and aid them. You had up to 500 marines ending up fighting in there against the whole dark city, resulting in hesperax taking to the field. Loads of DE died, and the resulting chaos allowed Vect to take power through cunning.

His wife basically manipulated a ork Waargh into attacking and looting an imperial forgeworld, trashing the place, and stealing a newly discovered STC. She then killed the orks, and nicked the stc, the result being Vect was damn impressed.


That's the main character fluff.

Hulksmash wrote:@Ketara

Couple things you had wrong there:

-Wracks are S3 T4
-The new scourge weapon is Assault 3

Otherwise I'd agree with some of the things you said. I think Warriors are almost only going to be seen as Elites. The basic ones have to compete w/Wyches, Wracks, and Hellions (Depending on your HQ's) where they just come up short.

I must have missread that on Wracks, and that was a mistype on the scourges. You're right, they are indeed assault 3.

Nightshields are also cheaper at 10 pts instead of 15. and the Ravagers are the same price at 105. Does anyone know if Archon's get Power Through Pain?

When I said dropped, I meant the disentegrators are free instead of having to pay 5 points apiece. For me, that's a drop of 15 points, as I never fielded them with Dark Lances.

Cheaper Ravagers are good... but perhaps the new HS means that other things might be taken over them although I am planning to get 2.

Ketara wrote:Originally in the fluff, Vect was the one who set up Commoragh by fleeing into the webway during the fall. Now it's changed. His wife basically manipulated a ork Waargh into attacking and looting an imperial forgeworld, trashing the place, and stealing a newly discovered STC. She then killed the orks, and nicked the stc, the result being Vect was damn impressed.

thanks for that - sounds like fun

re Vecht where did the bit about him setting up Commoragh come in - not in the Codex - is it in the novel with Hesperex in? Must have missed it

It was in a piece of fluff in an old White Dwarf, where Vect regales the story of the start of the Dark Eldar.

Anybody who's got access to the codex, could you answer me 2 things?
Do any of the Haemoculous variants have fleet?
and
Who all can buy a webway portal?

This is a list a friend came up with after reading the codex for 10 mins, hopefully this sort of stuff doesnt come popular otherwise its going to be razorspam all over again.

Vect
haemonculi with liquifier
haemonculi with liquifer
3 trueborn with 2 cannons, venom with 2 cannons, nightshield
3 trueborn with 2 cannons, venom with 2 cannons, nightshield
3 trueborn with 2 cannons, venom with 2 cannons, nightshield
7 wracks, liquifer, champ with venom blade, raider with nightshield, sails
8 wracks, liquifer, champ with venom blade, raider with nightshield, sails
5 warriors, blaster, raider with nightshield
5 warriors, blaster, raider with nightshield
5 warriors, blaster, raider with nightshield
5 warriors, blaster, raider with nightshield
5 scourges, 2 cannons
5 scourges, 2 cannons
5 scourges, 2 cannons
Ravager, 3 lances, nightshield
Ravager, 3 lances, nightshield
Ravager, 3 lances, nightshield

Not sure if It has enough anti tank, but still 13 lances, 4 blasters, 18 splinter cannons and a bit of combat.

Sigmatron wrote:Does anyone know if Archon's get Power Through Pain?

Everyone has it.

And Archons and Haemonculus can take WWP

Hulksmash wrote:@Ketara

Couple things you had wrong there:

-Wracks are S3 T4
-The new scourge weapon is Assault 3

Otherwise I'd agree with some of the things you said. I think Warriors are almost only going to be seen as Elites. The basic ones have to compete w/Wyches, Wracks, and Hellions (Depending on your HQ's) where they just come up short.

I'm going to have to disagree. They are a better shooting unit than wyches, and can score.

I don't think most people will take Wracks and Hellions as troops, considering the model costs and theme. I think there are plenty of people who share my opinion, and would view elite warriors as a waste of an Incubi slot.

Hulksmash wrote:@Ketara

Couple things you had wrong there:

-Wracks are S3 T4
-The new scourge weapon is Assault 3

Otherwise I'd agree with some of the things you said. I think Warriors are almost only going to be seen as Elites. The basic ones have to compete w/Wyches, Wracks, and Hellions (Depending on your HQ's) where they just come up short.

Man can you sell me on the elite warriors because I dunno they just seem like crap. I know they can take more special weapons and heavy weapons for fewer guys but they don't look good at all.

I'm really disappointed in how much vect costs, 240pts for just him then 200 more for his dais and then you have to buy him a court that's so many points tied up into one character!

You don't have to buy him the Dais and I doubt many people will field him on it. All his main advantages such the 4+ to seize don't require you to to take it (but are probably worth the 240pts you spend for him).

The Elite Warriors are definitely going to see use, probably going to be more common than the Troop Warriors actually (who have to compete with Wyches and all the slot changing ones). Because they are 3-10 you can load up on special or heavy weapons in a relatively small/cheap unit and park them in a vehicle to pump out heaps of fire in (relative) safety.

The codex appears to be very well balanced actually, there is nothing stopping you running assault units for troops (Wyches) and shooting units for elites (Trueborn Warriors) or doing the opposite and running shooting troops and assaulty Elites (or just overload on one or the other I guess). Both seem to be equally viable and it could just come down to personal preference, which imo is a perfect example of good codex design.

I like the elite warriors for many reasons:

a) Can take 2 Heavies and 4 Specials without a minimum size

b) Small unit size if you want it

c) Can all be armed with 3 shot-poison weapons

d) Don't totally suck in combat after gunning at least a single unit down.

Just some thoughts.

Well, my personal DE list previously only had 1 Elites choice, Wyches obviously. I can now see that changing dramatically with what are the new codex choices for Elites. I can field 2 full squads of Incubi with the models I have currently. Anyone who's fielded them, know their worth. In HtH, I've never had my Incubi lose. Now getting them into HtH, is another issue

I could see fielding a small group of Elite warriors kitted out w/ anti armor weapons. Keeping them in cover out of Los til they're needed then popping out to wreck some havoc.

If there's very little change in Points costs, I'll likely have 3 Raider squads of Warriors each 10 man and 3 Raider squads of Wyches each 10 man. Sorry, it's absolute suicide IMO to field less than a full compliment of troops aboard a Raider.

Scourges and Hellions both seem viable options, and the new Heavy choices will change things up abit. Though I want to see how the 'flyer' rules work for them first. Hmmm, I'm going to have to look at kit bashing that Void Bomber from a vyper and an eldar Grav tank....

Trueborn with carbines in a venom with cannons is going to be quite the cheap little gun boat.

Did the trueborn get pistol+ccw in addition to the carbines? Or was the carbine upgrade separate?

I'm surprized no one mentioned this: Warriors can get Assault and Defencive grenades for 20 pts per Unit. This will deffenately come in handy alot!

After spending several hours reading the advanced copy i have a few ideas on things for this dex.

1. wyches have been crucified. They suck period. people need to get off the fact they WERE close combat monsters they are not that way anymore. with wych weapons in the previous dex they would hit most every unit on 3's with some drug help they would still need 5's and 6's to wound most things but with the 3's to hit they would wound a bit more. Now they hit on 4's barring a lucky combat drug and still need 5's and 6's to hit. they are of course 2 points cheaper then before but they also lost blasters so that is a fair exchange for losing the ability to hit and the ability to kill tanks or something really nasty? all for 2 points? i sure dont think so
2. the wych weapons are now only available to 2 models in 10 and they only affect what that model does. in this age of no one model is safe especially with a 6+ armor save for 10 points each these wych weapons are a joke.
3. their stats remained exactly the same but they have no punch now. And forget the pain token stuff if you cant kill a unit because you cant wound them how do you get pain tokens? you dont.

4. Raiders: 60 points base not a big deal 5 points different add in a shock prow all DE players will use shockprows and add 10 points for flickershields again a must for any DE player and now its a 75 point raider and still armor 10

you can add other things for raiders but why? they wont be around long enough to matter

5. Ravagers with 3 dark lances moving 12" and firing everything.. i can live with that if you wont give me 12 armor as a heavy support the least you can do is let me shoot my guns so i am grateful for that much. add night shield and a flicker shield and its a good day

6. kabalite warriors 1 blaster 1 dark lance same points bit of a nerf but its not terrible

7. kabalite elites 4 blasters and 2 dark lances in a raider .. ok ill try it

8. Reavers ( probably the best upgrade in the dex) turbo boosting 36" mono blades killing as they fly by 3 heat lances for 10 bikes 18" range melta lance str6 ap1 not terrible

9: helions the fact they dont ignore terrain makes them very iffy. add in the baron sonathryx sp? and they become troops skilled rider stealth and the stunclaw which in the right situation is game changing...could this be the end of the eldrad seer counsel nonsense? remove eldrad from close combat pull him 3d6" away and then lay him out next turn

10 Vect. hes a monster with a unit or by himself hes a monster 4+ sieze roles? yes please

11. incubi why ? too many points not enough umph

12. Harlequins are you serious? wyches in the old dex would wipe the floor with them who wants them? No self respecting DE player will field quins. a money grab by GW pure and simple

13. Jabba raiders are you kidding me? and the sail has to be bought extra so why have it ? pass ill use my old models everytime

the bikes and helions are cool as all get out but overall this is no longer the im going to charge you and beat you in close combat army this is im going to move fast and blast you to bits army my new 1850 list has 17 Dark Lances and 10 blasters and 3 heat lances and some blaster pistols i dont care what army you play 17 dark lances will ruin you and ill be ruined as well when i get shot out of the sky with my aluminum armada

Some of the sc are really cool but dont make up for the lack of surviveability that the DE needed.

Do not forget close combat in 5th isnt anyways near as good as 4th you cant consolidate so be real proud of that pain token you get on round 2 cus your dead next turn shot and getting no saves with a 6+ now with FNP ill come back with 4's but do the math.. sad day for the DE

I've been lurking the interwebs.. and this codex just seems really well thought and balanced bar a few eggs (Mandrakes).

Surprised the above poster didnt mention that in the rant.

Dark Eldar were never meant to be surviveable. A glass hammer is hardly that if it never breaks. Then it'd just be a hammer.
Aka Marines.

If Crons/other xenos get to tyranid tier kinda like how it seems DE are, we're gonna have a problem

Nobody buy DE now guys, Rle68 has decided they're terrible.

Good Codex. The DE are now something to be feared. The Warriors with their 4+ poison weapons. The Wyches, I thought had poison weapons, but even if they don't, they have alot of attacks compared to before. The Hydra gloves are a great force multiplier
The Wracks, i think will work, but the best thing about them is their masters, the Haemonoculi. They have some very nasty wargear that can killl anyone, and even large squads.

This army, I think will be the "Glass Hammer". So many things can do so much damage. Thats where they can earn the pain points. Once they pick up FNP, FC and Fearless, then they can hang with the best of them.

Not sure why the mandrakes have to earn one to get Bale Blast, they are beautiful models to be sure. Guess I''ll have to run them a bit to see how they work out.

plastictrees wrote:Nobody buy DE now guys, Rle68 has decided they're terrible.

maybe you should go back to class and learn to read i said wyches were terrible i never said the whole army was thanks for trying now go to your room and dont come out till your at least 30

Rle68 wrote:

plastictrees wrote:Nobody buy DE now guys, Rle68 has decided they're terrible.

maybe you should go back to class and learn to read i said wyches were terrible i never said the whole army was thanks for trying now go to your room and dont come out till your at least 30

It's rather difficult to read posts that aren't written properly. Taking some time to use proper punctuation and spelling would greatly help you in this respect.

Xca|iber wrote:

Rle68 wrote:

plastictrees wrote:Nobody buy DE now guys, Rle68 has decided they're terrible.

maybe you should go back to class and learn to read i said wyches were terrible i never said the whole army was thanks for trying now go to your room and dont come out till your at least 30

It's rather difficult to read posts that aren't written properly. Taking some time to use proper punctuation and spelling would greatly help you in this respect.

if it was one long paragraph id see your point its broken up and quite easily readable. his post was entirely childish and added no value to this discussion and last time i checked my spell check left everything alone except for non words

Well this is reminding me of the Tyranid and IG releases.
The first rumors give everyone the impression that the army is going to be amazing.
But then the facts begin to trickle in and slowly the army begins to look less and less remarkable as the rules and units we had hopes for are twisted in frustrating and idiotic ways.
(SW and BA releases were exempt from this for obvious reasons.)

The DE are fine. The second guessers, such as the long post a few posts earlier, don't even have the facts straight, yet they feel the need to condemn them. The only problem is that some thought they would be broken, no-brainer good and they aren't. They're just a solid 'dex with several good play list options and plenty of power.

Wow... Mandrakes suck.

Such pretty models... but they're not plastic, so, y'know.

Wyches are just fine. You just need to take them in units of 10. A unit of 10 w/out +1 St, FC, or WS5 but with a succubus with an agoniser. 27 attacks yields only 1.5 dead marines. The Succubus adds another dead marine. 7 Marines strike back and do a whopping...1 wound. The sergeant kill another .5 wyches (less than that but we'll round up). So wyches win combat. And that's with them costing 2/3's the amount of the squad their engaged with and not counting any combat drug result or shooting before charging. Yep, wyches suck....

Their role has changed. Honestly I wouldn't use them to kill marine squads. I'll let Wracks do that. Wyches are for tying up those nasty PW/TH heavy units. Even a termi squad (assuming no one dies) is only gonna kill 2 of them. And I think that the "dark lance spam" build is actually going to be one of the frailer, less competitive lists out there. I'd personally start experimenting with other units and fast.

Your opinions don't match mine at all Rle68 which is fine. But you read your statements like they are fact when they are opinion (and flawed opinion at that).

@Skarboy

Here, Here!