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Manchu wrote:For example: A compassionate Guardsman is not interesting; a compassionate Space Marine is interesting.

Again, I disagree. They're BOTH interesting.

A compassionate Guardsman fighting for his nation out of a love for it, rather than out of fear and intimidation? Fighting for the people of the Imperium? Or better yet, an officer doing so, despite struggling against the bureaucracy of the munitorum because of his ideals? That IS an interesting Guardsman.

so far I pretty much agree with the order so far (except for SoB, which should have been ranked directly above demon hunters, but we all knew the bias coming into this).

I think I'll be really sad if eldar isn't next, though.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

Melissia wrote:*shrug* I never claimed to not have peculiar tastes. I like Grey Knights, whereas I don't like Space Marines. There's no real logical explanation that I can give, save that of simple appeal-- Grey Knights appeal to me while Space Marines in general don't, and why I don't know how to express.

It's because you think they look cool! just admit it.

It's quite possible. It's part of why I like Steel Legion over Cadia, for instance.

Melissia wrote:But Space Marines, truly and honestly, bore me as a concept.

Yeah, I understand. I can't get into almost everything about Fantasy and it's difficult for me to express why. But I do find others' excitement about it infectious.

The beauty of these posts is the petulant refusal by some to continue the discussion when their arguments are blown out of the water.

I gave myself a hand-shaped bruise I facepalmed so hard.

Space Marines are the Mary Sues of the 40K universe.

Melissia wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

Melissia wrote:*shrug* I never claimed to not have peculiar tastes. I like Grey Knights, whereas I don't like Space Marines. There's no real logical explanation that I can give, save that of simple appeal-- Grey Knights appeal to me while Space Marines in general don't, and why I don't know how to express.

It's because you think they look cool! just admit it.

It's quite possible. It's part of why I like Steel Legion over Cadia, for instance.

Grey Knights are the coolest looking marines. Steel Legion are pretty cool but Death Korps is super-cool!

True, Death Korps are pretty cool.

Manchu wrote:

Melissia wrote:But Space Marines, truly and honestly, bore me as a concept.

Yeah, I understand. I can't get into almost everything about Fantasy and it's difficult for me to express why. But I do find others' excitement about it infectious.

for me its magic. Magic is lame. Obstacle in your plot? Just magic it!

Mn, I kinda like magic. Mind you, I almost always played a neutral good drow wizard when I played DnD, so that's probably something to do with it (in hind sight she was probably closer to true neutral).

Melissia wrote:A compassionate Guardsman fighting for his nation out of a love for it, rather than out of fear and intimidation? Fighting for the people of the Imperium? Or better yet, an officer doing so, despite struggling against the bureaucracy of the munitorum because of his ideals? That IS an interesting Guardsman.

I can see your point, although I do not share your view. The colonel in Cadian Blood, for example, was one of the most boring characters I've ever read about. But then again, so was the protaginist of the Salamanders book. I guess BL isn't a good basis for these things. In principle, however, I think the compassion of a super human--who no longer shares many of the travails of humanity--is more interesting that that of a Guardsman or any other regular human who has no reason not to be compassionate.


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Kilkrazy wrote:Space Marines are the Mary Sues of the 40K universe.

Sure, but the scifi and fantasy genres are built on the concept of Mary Sue.

Kilkrazy wrote:Space Marines are the Mary Sues of the 40K universe.

Space Marines don't have penises. There I said it. A Mary Sue is supposed to be someone living out their fantasy through their character vicariously. If you think Marines are Sues then your fantasy is to have only 15 minutes of free time a day and you don't even have a penis for that break.

That may float some guys boat but not for me.

What matters to me, for such characters, IS that they have no reason to be compassionate... they're compassionate simply because it's the right thing to do, not because they have something to gain from it. That's not to say they won't do what we would call horrible things, but sometimes you really do have to kill innocents in order to ensure that corruption does not spread. 40k is not a nice place. Corruption doesn't care, nor does mutation, nor do the infections of xenos.

Doesn't mean it wouldn't tear at your conscience. But it had to be done. And you have to steel your resolve with that fact, and make sure that you aren't the one that turns to evil next.

Melissia wrote:Mn, I kinda like magic. Mind you, I almost always played a neutral good drow wizard when I played DnD, so that's probably something to do with it (in hind sight she was probably closer to true neutral).

In a game there are rules but in fiction there isn't. Just magic it.

Then that's what I call bad fiction rather than just the cause of magic. Good fiction has rules to its magic.

Melissia wrote:I almost always played a . . . drow . . . when I played DnD.

I knew there was something I liked about you.

Melissia wrote:I almost always played a neutral good . . . wizard when I played DnD.

And something I didn't.

inb4 "lol drizzt fangirl" comments.

SaintHazard wrote:inb4 "lol drizzt fangirl" comments.

Good, because drizzt sucked.

I didn't even know about the dumb bastard whenever I created the character... I actually created her based off of a certain Baldur's Gate character...

Who doesn't like Drizzt?

Melissia wrote:

SaintHazard wrote:inb4 "lol drizzt fangirl" comments.

Good, because drizzt sucked.

I didn't even know about the dumb bastard whenever I created the character... I actually created her based off of a certain Baldur's Gate character...

...if you're talking about Viconia, she was far from Neutral Good.

And for the record, I love Drizzt. I love R.A. Salvatore's books in general. I don't like the good-aligned-drow-frenzy that Salvatore managed to spark.

There's ONE good-aligned drow. ONE. And that's exceptional.

You know Elestriaee (or however you spell that stupid name) didn't even exist in Forgotten Realms canon before the "good-aligned drow" frenzy? They invented a goddess so that people could play more good-aligned drow.

Oh for the love of-

GET ON WITH IT!

SaintHazard wrote:
You know Elestriaee (or however you spell that stupid name) didn't even exist in Forgotten Realms canon before the "good-aligned drow" frenzy? They invented a goddess so that people could play more good-aligned drow.

Oh well. Drow are mega super-lame anyway.

Luke_Prowler wrote:Oh for the love of-

GET ON WITH IT!

what he said.

Chongara wrote:Oh well. Drow are mega super-lame anyway.

Nah, they're cool if used right.

Unfortunately, their sheer popularity (largely due to a certain dual-weilding twit) pretty much prohibits that. These days it seems as if you can't take two steps without tripping over another drow.

Okay, further discussion of Drow can be carried on via PM, in the OT sub-forum, or in the Large Scale &etc sub forum. Thanks!

sigh, another thread ruined by DnD. Damn you DnD!

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

Melissia wrote:*shrug* I never claimed to not have peculiar tastes. I like Grey Knights, whereas I don't like Space Marines. There's no real logical explanation that I can give, save that of simple appeal-- Grey Knights appeal to me while Space Marines in general don't, and why I don't know how to express.

It's because you think they look cool! just admit it.

Looking cool is nothing to laugh at. Looking cool is sometimes much more important than actually being cool. A small hand full of people will actually read your homebrew fluff and care enough to make an opinion. 100s of people will look at a pic of your marine pose/paintjob and make opinions.

Jayden63 wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

Melissia wrote:*shrug* I never claimed to not have peculiar tastes. I like Grey Knights, whereas I don't like Space Marines. There's no real logical explanation that I can give, save that of simple appeal-- Grey Knights appeal to me while Space Marines in general don't, and why I don't know how to express.

It's because you think they look cool! just admit it.

Looking cool is nothing to laugh at. Looking cool is sometimes much more important than actually being cool. A small hand full of people will actually read your homebrew fluff and care enough to make an opinion. 100s of people will look at a pic of your marine pose/paintjob and make opinions.

I didn't say it wasn't important. Inthe miniture hobby its either realism (for historical minitures) or for fictional stuff: Looking Cool! Looking cool is actually the most important thing!
...I guess Wargaming models = high school.

Melissia wrote:

Manchu wrote:fangirlish

Why yes, I am an Ork fangirl, thank you for noticing ^.^

I had to announce this. It has taken me years to figure out if Melissia is a guy or a girl. Because the last person I saw here with a sisters icon was Manchu. Not that its a bad thing, but I like to know whos behind the posts. Now back to the regularly scheduled comment.

Marines made it to the top 5. Thats a big surprise. Cant wait to see what the next one is. My bets are Eldar, Guard, Sisters then Orks.

And now I am planning what my list post will look like. It looks like fun making these.
But I need to think of something to make the list about... and a reason to celebrate said list...

I think....Eldar, Sisters, Orks then IG....I think