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Love Orks, totally ambilvilant about Guard. They are the one army that I just don't have any feelings about one way or the other. They are also the absolute last army in 40K I would play.

If I wanted to play humans, there are so many other wargames with much better base rules out there that I couldn't even fathom suffering through 40Ks clunky rule set if I'm running something as unimaginative as humans.

WOOT! CALLED THE LAST THREE! (Kinda...)

Finally chiming in. Just caught up on Sisters, then Eldar...


I have a few things to say about witchhunters/sisters in general. I like witchhunters as a concept. I can't sand SoB though. This is from an aesthetic image standpoint that has been discussed to death (corsets etc blah blah) and also from the extremely wacky lapse of reason in their actual game statistics. I think counting them as 'power armor' is just ridiculous. If their power armor could be found in a victoria's secret catalog, why is 'standard' power armor reserved for the super elite so clunky?

Are they actually given BETTER, more space efficient technology that the Emprah's Finesht Shpesh Marinesh? Are they so advanced that they rival the Eldar who have stronger/faster/more maleable wraithbone material in their armor... in better protection, BETTER COMBAT SKILLS!?!?! (compared to a race where everyone is a supposedly disciplined soldier with superhuman agility and probably hundreds of years old)

In addition to the Eldar 'other' pursuit that they follow in their path faithfully and religiously just as the battle sisters fervently pray and commune and repent and such for their 'other' pursuit.

How can these little space hotties even come close to being compared to an Astartes? Maybe, MAYBE if their statline was somewhere around the same as an IG Stormtrooper it could be acceptable (also inundated with unswerving faith and loyalty since being orphan children, but they don't get power armor and bolters, despite the fact that they spend all of their time drilling, instead of being distracted by prayer time). And the skanky chainsword repentia chicks are just about as embarrassing S&M fetishist looking as the Dark Eldar. Enough about the SoB's look though, it's been done to death...

I really liked the darker, less barbie style of the rest of the INQ... the Van Helsing look of the Witch Hunter inquisitor, the penitents, the flagellants, filthy zealous priesty guys in tattered robes foaming at the mouth and all that stuff... all the stuff that brought out the Salem Witch Trial puritan atrocities and bubonic page era catholisic monastic desperation feel and look. THAT is a witch hunter, not some decked out skank with shiney thigh high boots. Bad clash of imagery for the same faction. Buffy the Vampire Slayer meets Van Helsing, I'll take Van Helsing on my team and leave barbie back at the sorority house with her sisters. That makes me think this faction is just too split-personality.

Fluffwise, SoB are the militant arm of the Ecclisiarchy, not the Inquisition. I don't see how an autonomous power like the Inquisition would ever be subordinate to a separate power, and I don't see a religious leader being subordinate to anything not as devout as they are. It is in the nature of religious idealists that their power is the TRUE power. Can we imagine the Catholic church bowing to the demands of the secret service as a subordinate? Can we imagine the CIA taking orders from the pope either?

So by the standards of most of this thread, I'm surprised they came anywhere near the bottom. Their fluff is hard to rationalize, their 'look' is unbelievable compared to real bulky canonically recognized 'power armor' as we know it, their Codex is (compared to the 'ideal' SM as a for instance) awkward and confused. How they got so far is beyond me. (I have my suspicions though)

Anyhoo, enough ragging on Barbie, I'm surprised the Eldar did so well. This is NOT because I don't like them. Quite the opposite, I LOVE Eldar, Elves in fantasy fiction in general, and the idea of such a 'superior' being, not in the jockish meathead way that an Astartes is superior, or the hivemind efficient way of the bugs, but in the aesthetic, mental,physical and pure way they embody so well. That's my take on Eldar, they ARE just better than everyone. That was their whole problem that caused the Fall back when other races were still figuring out how to walk upright.

They get a lot of hate though from either meathead players who call them 'pansy gay space elfs' , or inexperienced hate them because they get outsmarted by their extremely precision play style that can take advantage of typical no-brainer power spam deathstar etc lists by specializing and making the opponent think he is just outclassed because the Eldar player used the right tool for the right job. When they lose, it's because their player messed up some slight thing and their fragility is not as forgiving as a bunch of blunt frontal attacking power armor can be. When they win, it's often a big win, and almost too easy, and because they player made absolutely no mistakes. To a noob, that could look like an army that's too powerful. To an Eldar player it just means you were doing everything right, which is a difficult challenge.

Guitardian wrote:If their power armor could be found in a victoria's secret catalog, why is 'standard' power armor reserved for the super elite so clunky?

Are they actually given BETTER, more space efficient technology that the Emprah's Finesht Shpesh Marinesh?

A Space Marine is stronger, faster tougher and with greater endurance than a human, so their armour does more than just provide protection. For instance, there's not much point giving a SoB a suit of power armour that can operate in a hard vacuum non-stop for a week if the human inside that suit can only operate for 10 hours without losing combat effectiveness to fatigue.

In addition to the Eldar 'other' pursuit that they follow in their path faithfully and religiously just as the battle sisters fervently pray and commune and repent and such for their 'other' pursuit.
...
How can these little space hotties even come close to being compared to an Astartes? Maybe, MAYBE if their statline was somewhere around the same as an IG Stormtrooper it could be acceptable

Their base statline is exactly the same as an IG stormtrooper. This is worse than the statline of those Eldar who are on one of the Aspect Warrior paths, but better than the ones who are a hundred years out of practice after moving to the Path of architecture or some other non-military role.

And would you drop the insults? They don't wear their underwear on the outside, they don't wear thigh-high boots, and they aren't skanks or barbies.

The problem with your analogy is that current day society is more secular than 40k. Seperation of state and religion is unheard of in 40k. In our world, you combine religion with state and you'd be called a nutjob.

Well Melissia it has been 35 now 36 really awesome pages in this thread . I have been following it from the start to now. Thou i haven't posted on the thread i have really injoyed it from the sideline!.

As an devoted Ork player i love how you described the Orks as i see them the same way you do! They plunge themselfs and everyone else into an enternal war with Boyz in all categories and waow i simply Love Orks!. Even if you lose Boyz at the dozens it doesn't matter! AS YOU WILL NEVER RUN OUT OF BOYZ TA FIGHT . And it made me glad everytime an Ork Hater (Who apereantly hates them cus they are Comedians?) attacked them and you would defend them with such ferocity that any Ork see you more as an Ork then a oomie! And would follow you to any Waargh!

But. As much as i am a Ork player to the bone i can only agree with you that they have to be #2. The Imperial Guard is... Amazing! I feel something special to these humans who fight and defend the galaxy from it hordes of Xenos and Aliens and Traitors!. I have read the IG codex from start to end meny times and it's amazing everytime. I have also decided that my secondary army is going to be IG and even the Armaggadon Steel Legion! I think it would be fun to have them as they really hates Orks .

Well it has really been awesome! Thank you again for making this thread. I hope to see other awesome threads in the near future. Keep it up Melissia!

(Oh Personal question. What Ork clan are you playing for your Orks? I myself has always been facinated by the Speed Freaks so Evil Sunz was the best choice)

I am actually very surprised that I predicted this correctly.

Anyway, I have to agree; Orks and Imperial Guard are the two iconic armies of 40K for me. Orks have been in the game since it's infancy, and have remained a mainstay through all that time, regardless of the changes in rules and codexes. Their fluff is kick-ass, and the models (for the most part) are some of the best, in my humble opinion.
But the Guard? Well, it's the underdog factor as much as it is the codex (and don't get me wrong, I love the codex).
IG are essentially the common man, fighting things that are almost always bigger, scarier and more heavily armed and armoured than him. The mere fact that many still do their duty in the face of such things as, say, a Genestealer horde, or a hideous Daemon Prince, is what makes them so special; I think the Guard codex itself says it best when it describes the main weapons of the Guard as being often "a bayonet with some guts behind it." Sure, there are jokes and comments abound about how the Guard's commissars have something to do with it, but at the end of the day, the actions of the IG troopers is nothing short of heroic.

Well, it was good fun reading this thread, and I'm glad I managed to get into it relatively early enough to know what was going on. Good job!

Well, I can't fault your reasoning. I can cry myself to sleep at night that CSM didn't get higher, but I understand why.

In three words; you go girl.

Keep in mind I don't necessarily disagree, but playing devil's advocate here because it's just too early in the morning for me to read this kind of thing and respond without humor:

Apologies for the multiquote. I'm too lazy to do my usual numbering edits.

Guitardian wrote:I think counting them as 'power armor' is just ridiculous. If their power armor could be found in a victoria's secret catalog, why is 'standard' power armor reserved for the super elite so clunky?

No no no, they're wearing victoria's secret OVER the power armor.

Which is just as dumb, but it does protect just as well.

Guitardian wrote:Are they actually given BETTER, more space efficient technology that the Emprah's Finesht Shpesh Marinesh?

Better?

For humans, yes.

Space efficient?

Possibly, but only because they don't have quite as many features (Although they do have some in the helmet that Space Marines power armor doesn't).

Guitardian wrote: Are they so advanced that they rival the Eldar who have stronger/faster/more maleable wraithbone material in their armor... in better protection, BETTER COMBAT SKILLS!?!?! (compared to a race where everyone is a supposedly disciplined soldier with superhuman agility and probably hundreds of years old)

Wraithbone allows Eldar to be I5 and fleet. Those that have a 3+ save lose fleet, but are still I5. That's a pretty fast moving fighter. Keep in mind that WS5 is a damned good WS value, far better than almost any common soldier could hope to get to (out of the entire IG codex, only Lord Commissars get it, for example).

Guitardian wrote:How can these little space hotties even come close to being compared to an Astartes?

Through special, constant training that provides them with preternatural skill in combat. Actually, in tabletop Celestians are more skilled at close combat than most Astartes are, I should note (they hit Astartes at a 3+, whereas the Astartes hit them at a 4+).

You know that thing that you said about Eldar, being mentally and physically superior, and having purity and all that jazz for Eldar? That's what Sisters are, save that they're human. They are the best that humanity has to offer, to give a direct quote from the codex:

The Sisters of Battle are shining examples of all that is good about humanity, the pinnacle of faith, devotion, and purity.

And THAT is what I like about them. They are the best of the best of humanity, struggling to protect the innocent and the purity of mankind in a galaxy that is trying to taint and use them, be it the foul progeny of xenos, or the heresies of Chaos. To keep humanity... human. Do they always succeed? No, but then they are just human.

I agree pretty much with the entire list. You got it down smack. Daemonhunters, The Imperial Guard, and the Orks are my favorite and you won best 2 outta 3.

Nice list. (YOU STILL DIDN'T RANK THEM FAST ENOUGH GAWDDAMMIT)

I don't care.

YOU SHOULD GAWDDAMMIT.

Oh well.

I've kept up as well....and out of curiosity, what type of cookie is it?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
p.s. I enjoyed this thread very much...

Dunno, sugar cookie maybe. Or maybe chocolate chip, I haven't decided.

Cookie? There's a cookie?
What do you mean?

EDIT: Disregard this, I have my answer.

See the Ork codex review.

Hrm, I need to make thanksgiving and christmas avatars, too. Maybe a valentines one too.

Its always good to see the Major's "I love war" speech, in any incarnation, ever. You also sumed up effectively why the IG is hands down my favorite army, and in the same post, why I dont play them any more.

yay, Guard are 1st
Read all 36 pages of this and I have to say it was an overall excellent review.

Urrrrr.... Just curious, Melissia, but have your avatar's eyes always been red? Cause that looks new to me.






By new, I mean creepy.

No, silly, thats Mellissa's Hallowe'en avatar. Spirit of the season and all that.

I prefer subtle when it comes to art.

If a person doesn't even realize my avatar has changed, but there's something more sinister about it, I'd say mission acomplished ^.^

Melissia wrote:I prefer subtle when it comes to art.

If a person doesn't even realize my avatar has changed, but there's something more sinister about it, I'd say mission acomplished ^.^

What was your avatars eye color before? Wasn't it blue?

Melissia wrote:I prefer subtle when it comes to art.

If a person doesn't even realize my avatar has changed, but there's something more sinister about it, I'd say mission acomplished ^.^

It scares me. I'll go change my avatar as I was looking for another avatar.

Happygrunt wrote:

Melissia wrote:I prefer subtle when it comes to art.

If a person doesn't even realize my avatar has changed, but there's something more sinister about it, I'd say mission acomplished ^.^

What was your avatars eye color before? Wasn't it blue?

The eyes were the most notable change, from green to red. Everything else I gave a slight red tint.

Melissia wrote:

Happygrunt wrote:

Melissia wrote:I prefer subtle when it comes to art.

If a person doesn't even realize my avatar has changed, but there's something more sinister about it, I'd say mission acomplished ^.^

What was your avatars eye color before? Wasn't it blue?

you used the red eye feature on max didn't you?

No, I manually recolored it using GIMP and Irfanview.

Ah. I'll try and put a christmas hat on my guy soon

Melissia wrote:

Happygrunt wrote:

Melissia wrote:I prefer subtle when it comes to art.

If a person doesn't even realize my avatar has changed, but there's something more sinister about it, I'd say mission acomplished ^.^

What was your avatars eye color before? Wasn't it blue?

The eyes were the most notable change, from green to red. Everything else I gave a slight red tint.

Wow, thats actually really good, I didnt notice anything but the eyes. Did you draw that?


I would change my avatar, but as the most interesting man in the world, I am good for all seasons.