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Made in au
Fresh-Faced New User





Here are a few pieces of advice! Do you think 40k is to expensive? what tips do you have to save money in the hobby?



   
Made in pl
Fixture of Dakka




I don't think those things make w40k cheap. Maybe cheaper, and even those not that much. Even if an army costs half what it costs at a store it is still a lot in some countries. Some people consider the squad based GW games like kill team to cost too much.

If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain. 
   
Made in au
Fresh-Faced New User





Karol wrote:
I don't think those things make w40k cheap. Maybe cheaper, and even those not that much. Even if an army costs half what it costs at a store it is still a lot in some countries. Some people consider the squad based GW games like kill team to cost too much.


Cheap is a relative term. If we compare 40k to hobbies like fishing or cars its incredibly cheap. If you think that it isn't cheap maybe you dont put very much value on it. I might spend a few hundrend dollars on an army (In Australia which is almost the most expensive in the world) but play countless games and spend many hours painting it up. For the amount of value i get from that its seriously cheap if you look at cost per hour.
   
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VF-1S Valkyrie Squadron Commander





Mississippi

#1, #2, #3 and #6 are actually helpful ideas. #4 and #5 are just "feel good" perks, and actually aren't that helpful.

The only drawback to #3 - "buy only what you use" is that a unit's worth often doesn't really become obvious until it hits the tabletop in the real world, against real opponents (and meta). And a lot of times, what's good or bad changes with the winds of GW's rules writers. That makes getting and more importantly keeping useful units difficult - unless your willing to trade/buy/sell models as the meta shifts.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/05/04 02:46:00


It never ends well 
   
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Unbalanced Fanatic






Also, minis don't depreciate nearly as fast as car parts or exotic pets. The old Calgar models still go for about $20 on ebay, slightly more than the $15 or so USD they would have cost when they were new. Sure, you could do better in the stock market (in fact the rate of return was below inflation), but you can't even resell video games these days. 40k doesn't look so bad compared to a GeForce 6800 ($300 when new, $30 today).

I think the only hobbies with better resell values are firearms and antiques. Even numismatics are usually a poor investment unless you find a particularly eager buyer, and that hobby literally deals in money.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/05/04 03:32:43


 
   
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Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter





I didn't watch the video, that said:

40k isn't particularly expensive. Compared to other adult hobbies, it's downright cheap. It's like $1k max for an army with lots of options and fully flexible to be good on the tabletop, and like $500 in minis to start a new army, so it's not particularly expensive at all. Even versus video gaming, if I wanted to have a nice computer that could run the games coming out last and this year I would be setting myself back the cost of an army.


That said, as fairly inexpensive in the grand scheme of things as it is, it's also more expensive than it should be, because the people it needs to get to buy things aren't adults with incomes, but high school students with their parents money/summer job money. If we don't get new blood in the hobby, the hobby will slowly diminish, and we're already having a hard time competing with video gaming and the college application process for time.

Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades! 
   
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40k is much cheaper if you don't care about winning. You can get cheap secondhand models, or find armies where you don't need a lot of models to play, but you'll find yourself with subpar lists getting steamrollered by the people who are prepared to go out and spend $500 on the last thing GW accidentally buffed into the stratosphere on a regular basis.

Balanced Game: Noun. A game in which all options and choices are worth using.
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Fresh-Faced New User





 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
I didn't watch the video, that said:

40k isn't particularly expensive. Compared to other adult hobbies, it's downright cheap. It's like $1k max for an army with lots of options and fully flexible to be good on the tabletop, and like $500 in minis to start a new army, so it's not particularly expensive at all. Even versus video gaming, if I wanted to have a nice computer that could run the games coming out last and this year I would be setting myself back the cost of an army.


That said, as fairly inexpensive in the grand scheme of things as it is, it's also more expensive than it should be, because the people it needs to get to buy things aren't adults with incomes, but high school students with their parents money/summer job money. If we don't get new blood in the hobby, the hobby will slowly diminish, and we're already having a hard time competing with video gaming and the college application process for time.


Hahah this exact point was covered in the video
   
Made in pl
Fixture of Dakka




War Master Marterix wrote:
Karol wrote:
I don't think those things make w40k cheap. Maybe cheaper, and even those not that much. Even if an army costs half what it costs at a store it is still a lot in some countries. Some people consider the squad based GW games like kill team to cost too much.


Cheap is a relative term. If we compare 40k to hobbies like fishing or cars its incredibly cheap. If you think that it isn't cheap maybe you dont put very much value on it. I might spend a few hundrend dollars on an army (In Australia which is almost the most expensive in the world) but play countless games and spend many hours painting it up. For the amount of value i get from that its seriously cheap if you look at cost per hour.


Well then you are going to be not suprised that deep sea fishing and collecting cars, is not a hobby spread wide in my country.
It is not a question of fun per hour, but just plain raw cost. When your parents, on avarge, are making 450-550$ per hour, you are never going to consider a 600-700$ army cheap, and you can even get it for half the money, and it is still going to be a huge investment. And this is still income considered from the view point of big rich cities, not smaller ones or towns.

If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain. 
   
Made in gb
Khorne Chosen Marine Riding a Juggernaut




Southampton, UK

Karol I'm guessing you didn't mean per hour, regarding parents income...

Unfortunately at some point there is a cutoff where you just have to say 'I can't afford to do this', and that's just part of life I'm afraid.

I mean, I'd love to have a sports car again and get into doing track days, but I can't afford it. And, being unable to afford it, I don't spend my time complaining about how expensive it is on sports car forums - I do something else that I like instead.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






 Stormonu wrote:
#1, #2, #3 and #6 are actually helpful ideas. #4 and #5 are just "feel good" perks, and actually aren't that helpful.

The only drawback to #3 - "buy only what you use" is that a unit's worth often doesn't really become obvious until it hits the tabletop in the real world, against real opponents (and meta). And a lot of times, what's good or bad changes with the winds of GW's rules writers. That makes getting and more importantly keeping useful units difficult - unless your willing to trade/buy/sell models as the meta shifts.


It also isn't just units tho. It also works for the paints, glue, hobby tools, etc... also many MANY players will buy something just to buy and not actually play/build/paint it.

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Karol wrote:
When your parents, on avarge, are making 450-550$ per hour,
I'm sure this is a typo, because if I earned the equivalent of 450-550$ per hour, I'd never go hungry again, every one of my financial worries would be taken care of, and raising a family would actually be viable, let alone worrying about buying another non-essential plastic model.

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Made in fr
Regular Dakkanaut




Crispy78 wrote:
Karol I'm guessing you didn't mean per hour, regarding parents income...

Unfortunately at some point there is a cutoff where you just have to say 'I can't afford to do this', and that's just part of life I'm afraid.

I mean, I'd love to have a sports car again and get into doing track days, but I can't afford it. And, being unable to afford it, I don't spend my time complaining about how expensive it is on sports car forums - I do something else that I like instead.


Altho you are right , it feels wrong for those tiny bits of plastic to be sold probably X4 what they cost to make.

Ofc GW is not the only culprit in that regard, LEGO prices have gone through the roof for the past 3 decades as well.
   
Made in pl
Fixture of Dakka




 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Karol wrote:
When your parents, on avarge, are making 450-550$ per hour,
I'm sure this is a typo, because if I earned the equivalent of 450-550$ per hour, I'd never go hungry again, every one of my financial worries would be taken care of, and raising a family would actually be viable, let alone worrying about buying another non-essential plastic model.


that is monthly income, you are right. no idea why auto correct change it per hour.

Altho you are right , it feels wrong for those tiny bits of plastic to be sold probably X4 what they cost to make.

well the models don't have to just pay for production, they have to pay salaries, bonuses, dividends, generate money to replace broken machines, molds, new buildings, pay for the adds and the storage space. Not saying that GW isn't making good money, they seem to be doing real good, but the X cents per sprue that turns in to 35$ at the store is probably a bid miss leading.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Crispy78 wrote:
Karol I'm guessing you didn't mean per hour, regarding parents income...

Unfortunately at some point there is a cutoff where you just have to say 'I can't afford to do this', and that's just part of life I'm afraid.

I mean, I'd love to have a sports car again and get into doing track days, but I can't afford it. And, being unable to afford it, I don't spend my time complaining about how expensive it is on sports car forums - I do something else that I like instead.


I do not claim that GW should be forced to make stuff cheaper or that somehow people that make less are entitled to get stuff for less. I am just saying that there are parts of the world where people already use all the techniques and the market for recasting is huge and booming, and still most people playing with a full army are in their late 20s. me and people from my school were the new players in 8th ed, now most of them don't play, but in general we were at best half younger then the next players at the store. At to them the hobby was also a big investment, and they have jobs, no wifes or kids.


On army cost basis inifnity and historicals with those really small models seemed to be the cheaper options. No idea if more or less fun, but I know that for how much my second hand army cost, I could have had 3 infinity ones and 6 XVI century historical ones or 5 medival ones.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/05/04 11:23:57


If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain. 
   
Made in ca
Painlord Titan Princeps of Slaanesh





Hamilton, ON

I possess a 3,264pt Daemon/R&H army that has cost me exactly $1,151.56 CAD (including H.S.T.) since October, 2017. I mostly use paints from dollar-stores or Michaels, so add maybe $100 for paint, glue and brushes.

So far, that's 30 months of building, painting and playing, for $1,250 CAD.

Over the same timeframe I've spent ca. $5,800 CAD on cigarettes and a further ca. $6,000 on take-out/eating out. Close to $13,000 on recreational substances.

So... context. It matters.

EDIT - Uncomfortably revealing stat, so far the Daemon portion is averaging 3.26pts per dollar spent; the Renegades and Heretics 2.29.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/05/05 20:13:20


The Fall of Kronstaat IV
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Kabal of The Violet Heart (updated 02/02/2020)

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 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Karol wrote:
When your parents, on avarge, are making 450-550$ per hour,
I'm sure this is a typo, because if I earned the equivalent of 450-550$ per hour, I'd never go hungry again, every one of my financial worries would be taken care of, and raising a family would actually be viable, let alone worrying about buying another non-essential plastic model.


I stuck with Scar, and I never went hungry again.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Karol wrote:
 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Karol wrote:
When your parents, on avarge, are making 450-550$ per hour,
I'm sure this is a typo, because if I earned the equivalent of 450-550$ per hour, I'd never go hungry again, every one of my financial worries would be taken care of, and raising a family would actually be viable, let alone worrying about buying another non-essential plastic model.


that is monthly income, you are right. no idea why auto correct change it per hour.

Altho you are right , it feels wrong for those tiny bits of plastic to be sold probably X4 what they cost to make.

well the models don't have to just pay for production, they have to pay salaries, bonuses, dividends, generate money to replace broken machines, molds, new buildings, pay for the adds and the storage space. Not saying that GW isn't making good money, they seem to be doing real good, but the X cents per sprue that turns in to 35$ at the store is probably a bid miss leading.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Crispy78 wrote:
Karol I'm guessing you didn't mean per hour, regarding parents income...

Unfortunately at some point there is a cutoff where you just have to say 'I can't afford to do this', and that's just part of life I'm afraid.

I mean, I'd love to have a sports car again and get into doing track days, but I can't afford it. And, being unable to afford it, I don't spend my time complaining about how expensive it is on sports car forums - I do something else that I like instead.


I do not claim that GW should be forced to make stuff cheaper or that somehow people that make less are entitled to get stuff for less. I am just saying that there are parts of the world where people already use all the techniques and the market for recasting is huge and booming, and still most people playing with a full army are in their late 20s. me and people from my school were the new players in 8th ed, now most of them don't play, but in general we were at best half younger then the next players at the store. At to them the hobby was also a big investment, and they have jobs, no wifes or kids.


On army cost basis inifnity and historicals with those really small models seemed to be the cheaper options. No idea if more or less fun, but I know that for how much my second hand army cost, I could have had 3 infinity ones and 6 XVI century historical ones or 5 medival ones.


Well, I can tell you that in terms of Flames of War (the most common historical) a full army costs maybe a little less than a full 40k army, but not much. The biggest saving grace there is that the competition for other similar-scaled WW2 miniatures is HUGE so you can get an army of similarly scaled tanks or whatever at a much lower price.

Any skirmish game, whether Infinity, Malifaux, whatever, is going to be a good deal cheaper for an army, but more expensive per miniature usually. I have a full Infinity army, and it cost around 300$, for 26 miniatures (one of which is a big robot).

If I spent the same money on WH figures, I'd probably end up with more figures (and much bigger vehicles, the biggest infinity models are about the size of classic marine dreadnoughts) but I'd probably only have about 500-1k points depending on which army I bought into.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/05/04 13:02:17


"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

-the_scotsman"

-ERJAK 
   
Made in gb
Twisted Trueborn with Blaster




I agree that spending a LOT of time on and with models enhances the value, and brings down the cost per hour's fun.

It does nothing to reduce the absolute cost, however.

As for 3D printing, a) ignore the cost of the printer itself and then b) ignore the printing TIME, and that's before he shows off a model that, in his words "looks suspiciously like this forgeworld model".. not a recast, but what actual difference?
   
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stroller wrote:
I agree that spending a LOT of time on and with models enhances the value, and brings down the cost per hour's fun.

It does nothing to reduce the absolute cost, however.

As for 3D printing, a) ignore the cost of the printer itself and then b) ignore the printing TIME, and that's before he shows off a model that, in his words "looks suspiciously like this forgeworld model".. not a recast, but what actual difference?


Well, legally speaking making something for your own use breaks a looooooooot fewer laws in many places than participating in a financial transaction for something that is someone else's IP.

After all, nothing is stopping you from sculpting an identical model to some Forgeworld sculpt out of clay or greenstuff or something...it's just a vastly more technologically advanced method of doing that.

"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

-the_scotsman"

-ERJAK 
   
Made in us
Servoarm Flailing Magos






Mira Mesa

Karol wrote:
 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Altho you are right , it feels wrong for those tiny bits of plastic to be sold probably X4 what they cost to make.
well the models don't have to just pay for production, they have to pay salaries, bonuses, dividends, generate money to replace broken machines, molds, new buildings, pay for the adds and the storage space. Not saying that GW isn't making good money, they seem to be doing real good, but the X cents per sprue that turns in to 35$ at the store is probably a bid miss leading.
Not to get off topic, but the thing that bothers me is the arbitrary nature of GW pricing. I get that more detailed kits are going to be more expensive relative to their plastic. The price is correlated somewhat to game point values. They seem to price things based on how many the players are expected to use. You can see this in any faction's Troops vs Elites kits.

I also understand bundles cost less than the sum of their parts. However, when the Start Collecting boxes offer 30-40% discounts, you have to wonder about the individual prices. As an AdMech player, why would I ever buy a Dunecrawler at $75 over a Start Collecting at $95?

   
Made in gb
Twisted Trueborn with Blaster




Legally speaking, "this is less illegal than that...." No thanks.

Back on topic, you can make 40k cheaper, but you can't make it cheap. (Your mileage may, as always, vary).
   
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Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba






 DarkHound wrote:
Karol wrote:
 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Altho you are right , it feels wrong for those tiny bits of plastic to be sold probably X4 what they cost to make.
well the models don't have to just pay for production, they have to pay salaries, bonuses, dividends, generate money to replace broken machines, molds, new buildings, pay for the adds and the storage space. Not saying that GW isn't making good money, they seem to be doing real good, but the X cents per sprue that turns in to 35$ at the store is probably a bid miss leading.
Not to get off topic, but the thing that bothers me is the arbitrary nature of GW pricing. I get that more detailed kits are going to be more expensive relative to their plastic. The price is correlated somewhat to game point values. They seem to price things based on how many the players are expected to use. You can see this in any faction's Troops vs Elites kits.

I also understand bundles cost less than the sum of their parts. However, when the Start Collecting boxes offer 30-40% discounts, you have to wonder about the individual prices. As an AdMech player, why would I ever buy a Dunecrawler at $75 over a Start Collecting at $95?


Basically, because you don't pay for the component parts for an injection-molded plastic kit, you pay for two things.

1) the buy in to create the mold
2) the overhead cost of shipping it to your distributor and keeping it on the shelf.

The reason why older kits, that cost less money, are kept at the same price is because the molds are already paid off and they don't usually stock those anywhere, they're online order only. wheras a kit like a dunecrawler they're going to actually stock on their store shelves and is more recent.

It really doens't have much at all to do with level of detail. Number of sprues = number of molds = initial cost to GW.

And yeah, sales volume is a big part of it as well. The entire reason character clampacks are so crazy expensive is that they're so low sales volume. It's why they used to make them out of metal, because the molds were way cheaper but the material much more expensive, but it allowed them to support a lower price point even with the lower sales volume. Sadly when the composite materials of the white metal they used to use went nuts, almost the whole games industry had to drop it.

SC boxes are great for GW, even when they include 75$ models in a 95$ box like the crisis suits in Tau or Dunecrawlers in Admech, because they get to shift what would otherwise be very very low sales volume character kits. They usually do that on purpose - package a couple of highly re-buyable units like leman russes and guard kits or fire warriors and crisis suits with one predicted low sales volume character pack like the plastic commissar.

For some of them, like the various daemons boxes, they're basically the only thing GW will ever have to stock for the faction in the store, because they're by FAR the most efficient way to collect the faction. You get flamers, horrors, screamers, a chariot kit, and a herald out of the tzeentch daemons SC - stock that, brims and blues, and lords of change and you don't need to devote any more shelf space to tzeentch. It is well worth the discount for GW to be able to do that, and to have all those kits sell at exactly the same rate.

"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

-the_scotsman"

-ERJAK 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 DarkHound wrote:
Karol wrote:
 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Altho you are right , it feels wrong for those tiny bits of plastic to be sold probably X4 what they cost to make.
well the models don't have to just pay for production, they have to pay salaries, bonuses, dividends, generate money to replace broken machines, molds, new buildings, pay for the adds and the storage space. Not saying that GW isn't making good money, they seem to be doing real good, but the X cents per sprue that turns in to 35$ at the store is probably a bid miss leading.
Not to get off topic, but the thing that bothers me is the arbitrary nature of GW pricing. I get that more detailed kits are going to be more expensive relative to their plastic. The price is correlated somewhat to game point values. They seem to price things based on how many the players are expected to use. You can see this in any faction's Troops vs Elites kits.

I also understand bundles cost less than the sum of their parts. However, when the Start Collecting boxes offer 30-40% discounts, you have to wonder about the individual prices. As an AdMech player, why would I ever buy a Dunecrawler at $75 over a Start Collecting at $95?


The "elites are more expensive" thing actually makes a lot of sense when you understand that the cost to set up an injection mold machine to produce the Intercessors sprue and the cost to produce the new Kayvaan Shrike sprue are about the same, but you can reasonably expect to sell 30 times as many Intercessor sprues.

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




NE Ohio, USA

Karol wrote:
War Master Marterix wrote:
Karol wrote:
I don't think those things make w40k cheap. Maybe cheaper, and even those not that much. Even if an army costs half what it costs at a store it is still a lot in some countries. Some people consider the squad based GW games like kill team to cost too much.


Cheap is a relative term. If we compare 40k to hobbies like fishing or cars its incredibly cheap. If you think that it isn't cheap maybe you dont put very much value on it. I might spend a few hundrend dollars on an army (In Australia which is almost the most expensive in the world) but play countless games and spend many hours painting it up. For the amount of value i get from that its seriously cheap if you look at cost per hour.


Well then you are going to be not suprised that deep sea fishing and collecting cars, is not a hobby spread wide in my country.
It is not a question of fun per hour, but just plain raw cost. When your parents, on avarge, are making 450-550$ per hour, you are never going to consider a 600-700$ army cheap, and you can even get it for half the money, and it is still going to be a huge investment. And this is still income considered from the view point of big rich cities, not smaller ones or towns.


Assuming you stick with 40k & only your GK going forward, you'll find that your hobby is considerably cheaper here on out.
(assuming no piracy/access to free rules) You'll be investing in new books on occasion - a new rule book every 4 years or so, a new codex every 4-5 years, possibly the annual CA books &/or things like PA. Eventually as $ permits, some additional models. And some paint + supplies - or paying someone to paint.

   
Made in gb
Been Around the Block




AnomanderRake wrote:40k is much cheaper if you don't care about winning. You can get cheap secondhand models, or find armies where you don't need a lot of models to play, but you'll find yourself with subpar lists getting steamrollered by the people who are prepared to go out and spend $500 on the last thing GW accidentally buffed into the stratosphere on a regular basis.

This is really the key. If you want to stay competitive, or have a large selection of units from which to build competitive, your cost will be a lot higher than building a 2000pt list and sticking with it.

Siegfriedfr wrote:Altho you are right , it feels wrong for those tiny bits of plastic to be sold probably X4 what they cost to make.

But surely you know that the material cost for these products is a tiny percentage of the overall cost of production? I'm not saying there isn't a healthy profit margin built in to the retail price (GW is a successful and very profitable company), but don't discount the cost of the moulds, the salaries of the designers and factory workers, packaging, storage costs, and the fact that a lot of their stock is sold at wholesale prices rather than retail. When you consider that many independent or third-party sellers offer 25% discount, you can surmise that they're probably paying around 50% retail price on these products (this is an estimate - feel free to correct me if anyone knows the actual figure).

Ultimately, GW could reduce the retail price by producing kits with fewer optional parts, lower quality detail, and less premium packaging and instructions, but that's not their brand.

DarkHound wrote:Not to get off topic, but the thing that bothers me is the arbitrary nature of GW pricing. I get that more detailed kits are going to be more expensive relative to their plastic. The price is correlated somewhat to game point values. They seem to price things based on how many the players are expected to use. You can see this in any faction's Troops vs Elites kits.
I also understand bundles cost less than the sum of their parts. However, when the Start Collecting boxes offer 30-40% discounts, you have to wonder about the individual prices. As an AdMech player, why would I ever buy a Dunecrawler at $75 over a Start Collecting at $95?


It can seem like price is correlated to points value, but this is really a byproduct of the actual approach to pricing. Acceptable margin is driven heavily by expected sales volume. If you make a plastic character kit, it costs a similar amount to create the tool and packaging as an infantry squad (design costs are probably lower), but you'll probably sell one or two to someone who collects that army, compared to maybe 5-10 of a standard infantry squad. So, the margin (and therefore retail price) must be higher on the character so that it pays for its own development costs.

Regarding the SC boxes, again it's a question of scale. GW are happy to make less on the box overall, because they're selling more product in one go. Volume is the key to good value for you here.
   
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Robtype0 wrote:
AnomanderRake wrote:40k is much cheaper if you don't care about winning. You can get cheap secondhand models, or find armies where you don't need a lot of models to play, but you'll find yourself with subpar lists getting steamrollered by the people who are prepared to go out and spend $500 on the last thing GW accidentally buffed into the stratosphere on a regular basis.

This is really the key. If you want to stay competitive, or have a large selection of units from which to build competitive, your cost will be a lot higher than building a 2000pt list and sticking with it.

Siegfriedfr wrote:Altho you are right , it feels wrong for those tiny bits of plastic to be sold probably X4 what they cost to make.

But surely you know that the material cost for these products is a tiny percentage of the overall cost of production? I'm not saying there isn't a healthy profit margin built in to the retail price (GW is a successful and very profitable company), but don't discount the cost of the moulds, the salaries of the designers and factory workers, packaging, storage costs, and the fact that a lot of their stock is sold at wholesale prices rather than retail. When you consider that many independent or third-party sellers offer 25% discount, you can surmise that they're probably paying around 50% retail price on these products (this is an estimate - feel free to correct me if anyone knows the actual figure).

Ultimately, GW could reduce the retail price by producing kits with fewer optional parts, lower quality detail, and less premium packaging and instructions, but that's not their brand.

DarkHound wrote:Not to get off topic, but the thing that bothers me is the arbitrary nature of GW pricing. I get that more detailed kits are going to be more expensive relative to their plastic. The price is correlated somewhat to game point values. They seem to price things based on how many the players are expected to use. You can see this in any faction's Troops vs Elites kits.
I also understand bundles cost less than the sum of their parts. However, when the Start Collecting boxes offer 30-40% discounts, you have to wonder about the individual prices. As an AdMech player, why would I ever buy a Dunecrawler at $75 over a Start Collecting at $95?


It can seem like price is correlated to points value, but this is really a byproduct of the actual approach to pricing. Acceptable margin is driven heavily by expected sales volume. If you make a plastic character kit, it costs a similar amount to create the tool and packaging as an infantry squad (design costs are probably lower), but you'll probably sell one or two to someone who collects that army, compared to maybe 5-10 of a standard infantry squad. So, the margin (and therefore retail price) must be higher on the character so that it pays for its own development costs.

Regarding the SC boxes, again it's a question of scale. GW are happy to make less on the box overall, because they're selling more product in one go. Volume is the key to good value for you here.


"They're paying 50%" is really just kind of...not the way to look at it. They're probably AIMING for about 50%, but really what it is is a much higher margin than 50% but with a large capital investment at the beginning with all the design work plus the molds, and then they try to project expected sales as accurately as possible when they create their price point.

Honestly, 40k has it pretty good when it comes to that stuff, it's obvious to me that GW feels new AOS projects are much riskier/lower volume. When I got my AOS stuff I was frankly amazed at the going retail rates for some of this stuff. There's a biggish character, about C'tan sized, in the AOS army I play and it's a hundred goddamn dollars retail. Literally for something that's about the size of a C'tan or venomthrope, smaller than a dreadnought.

"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

-the_scotsman"

-ERJAK 
   
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Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

the_scotsman wrote:


Honestly, 40k has it pretty good when it comes to that stuff, it's obvious to me that GW feels new AOS projects are much riskier/lower volume. When I got my AOS stuff I was frankly amazed at the going retail rates for some of this stuff. There's a biggish character, about C'tan sized, in the AOS army I play and it's a hundred goddamn dollars retail. Literally for something that's about the size of a C'tan or venomthrope, smaller than a dreadnought.


Which model?

   
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 Overread wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:


Honestly, 40k has it pretty good when it comes to that stuff, it's obvious to me that GW feels new AOS projects are much riskier/lower volume. When I got my AOS stuff I was frankly amazed at the going retail rates for some of this stuff. There's a biggish character, about C'tan sized, in the AOS army I play and it's a hundred goddamn dollars retail. Literally for something that's about the size of a C'tan or venomthrope, smaller than a dreadnought.


Which model?


The yodeleheehoo of math camp, aka Wave Man.https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Eidolon-Of-Mathlann-2018 sorry, 110$.

Hilariously, for 5$ more, I can have this: https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Idoneth-Deepkin-Akhelian-Leviadon-2018

And that sits on my shelf next to the suspiciously similarly sized and 75$ less https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Drukhari-Raider

If I hadn't gotten those models in a trade... O.o

"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

-the_scotsman"

-ERJAK 
   
Made in pl
Fixture of Dakka




ccs 788009 10788353 wrote:

Assuming you stick with 40k & only your GK going forward, you'll find that your hobby is considerably cheaper here on out.
(assuming no piracy/access to free rules) You'll be investing in new books on occasion - a new rule book every 4 years or so, a new codex every 4-5 years, possibly the annual CA books &/or things like PA. Eventually as $ permits, some additional models. And some paint + supplies - or paying someone to paint.



Oh the store in my area went bankrupt, so without a place to play my hobbby may as well not exist. I just wish I could have played more with PA4. I got it mid Feb, just after winter break. and on 2ed of march goverment locked everything up. Played total of 3 games with the new rules.

Paint wise I am also done, because the army was fully painted asided for 2 rhinos. that are just silver.

If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain. 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






the_scotsman wrote:
 Overread wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:


Honestly, 40k has it pretty good when it comes to that stuff, it's obvious to me that GW feels new AOS projects are much riskier/lower volume. When I got my AOS stuff I was frankly amazed at the going retail rates for some of this stuff. There's a biggish character, about C'tan sized, in the AOS army I play and it's a hundred goddamn dollars retail. Literally for something that's about the size of a C'tan or venomthrope, smaller than a dreadnought.


Which model?


The yodeleheehoo of math camp, aka Wave Man.https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Eidolon-Of-Mathlann-2018 sorry, 110$.

Hilariously, for 5$ more, I can have this: https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Idoneth-Deepkin-Akhelian-Leviadon-2018

And that sits on my shelf next to the suspiciously similarly sized and 75$ less https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Drukhari-Raider

If I hadn't gotten those models in a trade... O.o


Well IDK and FS are the "costly armies" and no one knows why. But you can easily make a 2k army for $200, and a "viable and fun" 2k army for $300-400. Honestly there are many armies that can do that, BCR, FeC, BoC, Goblins, any death army with Nagash can be cheap, SCE, NH.

How many 40k armies (I haven't looked) can make a army worth playing (not GT level that is) for less than $400? Heck even my Quins with 18 bikes alone are $360 and thats only 800pts.

15k+
3k
Emperor's Spears 2k
Beastmen 9500
CoS: 3500

Reading/Writing LD, be kind!

https://maddpaint.blogspot.com 
   
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Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

One big difference is that AoS currently uses fewer models on average than 40K. You can see this when comparing demon armies (which work in both games). I think that GW has made AoS a bit more expensive in points so that army sizes are smaller since the game is "new" and has a lot of newer customers. Whilst 40K hasa greater legacy and a lot of older customers with bigger forces and more desire to put down more models.

I fully expect AoS armies to creep up in size over time. Either by the points values lowering and/or the "base point level" rising.

   
 
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