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Scenes get cut in movies all the time. Gotta have something to put on the 4th version of the home release to get people to buy it.
There are some scenes that should not have been cut because they lessened the movie. You know any?
For me I'll start with ST:TMP In the scene when they're going to confront V'Ger kirk gives scotty a coded order. Scotty looks shocked but says "When, sir?"
Since you mentioned Star Trek, I'll one-up that with Wrath of Khan.
Spoiler:
The theatrical version cuts out the short bit in Engineering where Scotty explains to Kirk that the outspoken young trainee is Scotty's nephew. Without that knowledge, his death later in the film is much less impactful.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/10 19:51:47
"Through the darkness of future past, the magician longs to see.
One chants out between two worlds: Fire, walk with me." - Twin Peaks
"You listen to me. While I will admit to a certain cynicism, the fact is that I am a naysayer and hatchetman in the fight against violence. I pride myself in taking a punch and I'll gladly take another because I choose to live my life in the company of Gandhi and King. My concerns are global. I reject absolutely revenge, aggression, and retaliation. The foundation of such a method... is love. I love you Sheriff Truman." - Twin Peaks
@Tannhauser42- I'll disagree on that. The fact that he's mourning for a young man under his command is impactful enough.
It'd be less moving the other way, because that's simply expected, and suggests that any of the rest of his crew meeting the same fate would get a stoic shrug.
----
Honestly, I miss the days when we didn't have cuts being paraded out and sold as 'upgrades' to movies. When they were in fact completed stories that had to stand on their own.
Because there’s a particular movie which was kinda rubbish, but on the DVD a deleted scene provided very specific context and background which made the entire film make sense.
Can I remember what it was?
No. No I can’t. Please no wild suggestions. This is something buried in the deepest darkest dankest most spider and cobweb riddled part of my brain. I am resigned to never knowing what it is that am I’m on about ( well, less than normal)
*Pic copyright Barney Farmer, who is a comic genius.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/10 22:10:20
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Alien 3 was torn apart on the cutting room floor. They had to do two (I think) versions of the directors cut to make it make sense again.
VERY annoyingly though for some reason when they did the vastly improved directors cut, they removed the dog hatching scene and replaced it with the bull. Oddly they solved several story issues but then introduced a new one by having the dog mysteriously just vanish.
I'd also say that the dog scene was far superior; it was brutal, nasty and terrifying whilst the bull scene was honestly quite tame in comparison (the bull was even dead when the critter was hatching too so very tame by alien standards).
I've also heard that Kingdom of Heaven markedly improves with its directors cut as well.
Finally the last film Sergio Leone made was Once Upon a Time in America and was one he'd taken great pains to make "of a suitable length for the cinema" and they still, much to his hate, cut it. Sadly the cut elements wound up in the hands of different legal entities and despite many years, they still don't agree enough to come to the table to make a combined single directors cut version.
Because there’s a particular movie which was kinda rubbish, but on the DVD a deleted scene provided very specific context and background which made the entire film make sense.
Can I remember what it was?
No. No I can’t. Please no wild suggestions. This is something buried in the deepest darkest dankest most spider and cobweb riddled part of my brain. I am resigned to never knowing what it is that am I’m on about ( well, less than normal)
*Pic copyright Barney Farmer, who is a comic genius.
Sorry, doc, I certainly didn't mean to discombobulate anyone with this post. Especially not to the degree I seem to have discombobulated you.
As to another bad cut, and I know I'm gonna catch so much hell for this I'l going to need ceramite gloves to handle it all, was the elimination of Deckard's dialogue voice overs in Blade runner.
The voice over was a common thing in a lot of film noir, and bladerunner was film noir writ large. Bladerunner was a story Deckard was telling the audience, like a lot of film noir were. Cutting the voice overs hurt the movie IMO. (And yes I am well aware ofthe fact I am ohe only person in all existence to feel that way. I know. Years ago time travelers from near the end of the universe came to tell me that as the last traces of the current universe were being destroyed it was official that I'm the only person in all existence who felt the voice over version was better than the holy director's cut.)
Let the flaming commence.!
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/07/11 00:54:09
"But the universe is a big place, and whatever happens, you will not be missed..."
I agree. Blade Runner was boring enough already. Cutting anything..I hesitate to say interesting, but at least less boring...made the film harder to sit through.
Overread wrote: Alien 3 was torn apart on the cutting room floor. They had to do two (I think) versions of the directors cut to make it make sense again.
VERY annoyingly though for some reason when they did the vastly improved directors cut, they removed the dog hatching scene and replaced it with the bull. Oddly they solved several story issues but then introduced a new one by having the dog mysteriously just vanish.
I'd also say that the dog scene was far superior; it was brutal, nasty and terrifying whilst the bull scene was honestly quite tame in comparison (the bull was even dead when the critter was hatching too so very tame by alien standards).
I've also heard that Kingdom of Heaven markedly improves with its directors cut as well.
Finally the last film Sergio Leone made was Once Upon a Time in America and was one he'd taken great pains to make "of a suitable length for the cinema" and they still, much to his hate, cut it. Sadly the cut elements wound up in the hands of different legal entities and despite many years, they still don't agree enough to come to the table to make a combined single directors cut version.
The directors cut of Kingdom of Heaven is practically a different (and very good) film; the recut is on a similar order to the Lord of the Rings Special Editions. Speaking of which, I really, really didn’t like the theatrical version of The Two Towers, for a number of reasons, but mainly because it makes a mess of Faramir’s character (and he’s one of my favourite characters in the whole book). This is totally redeemed by an extra scene in the special edition, which is also such a short scene (<5min) that I do not understand why it was dropped?
Zed wrote: *All statements reflect my opinion at this moment. if some sort of pretty new model gets released (or if I change my mind at random) I reserve the right to jump on any bandwagon at will.
My understanding is that when a film is made the director cuts it - then the Cinema group that buys it cuts the film with the express purpose of making it fit a specific time slot - or as close as they can hack it too.
The issue is this latter group is primarily concerned about making the film fit a time slot that lets them get as many showings in a single day - which means more bums on seats for them. Granted its their bread and butter, but the issue is that they basically aren't concerned about plot, pacing etc... They are simply there to make the film shorter.
It's why they cut odd or daft things that you go "why would you cut that?" They cut it because they aren't concerned about the story. It's odd because you'd think a higher quality product would be important to them, but it seems not.
It would not shock me if there were some politics in it too - rile them up or delay them or annoy them and they might cut your film extra bad.
I don't know if this qualifies since it wasn't cut, it was never filmed, but when JJA made his generic scifi action movies with star trek titles and names plaster over a "diehard" plotline he had the stupid idea of having enterprise built on the ground instead of in space as was long established canon. (OF course JJA never cared about continuity or respected the source material at all.)
The whole thing was just to show that punk kirk on a motorcycle copping a james dean thing while looking at the enterprise being built.
To put the cherry on top of his dumb sundae of having the enterprise built on the ground, he did not do one thing that might have actually made it almost tolerable: Having enterprise lifting off and flying to orbit.
If you're going to screw 50 years of canon and common sense you could at least have had a scene where the E is finished and then undergoes full power up and flight into orbit.
They could have had the crew with a sense of tension preparing for the first flight of the ship. Maybe have it mentioned there was no antimatter on board, just deuterium fuel, in case something went wrong. We could have seen the ship flying upwards thru the air, rising, maybe with starfleet chase craft following and watching for any signs of trouble, possibly a media shuttle filming it.
A few minutes of the ship climbing above the clouds, maybe bird flocks passing nearby, passing over a city as people stop and look up. The ship's shadow crossing over the city.
Then finally reaching orbit, rising above the glow of the atmosphere.
But no, not the destroyer of francises. He just couldn't do that.
People dump on STTMP but to me the scehe with enterprise leaving spacedock was a good one, if only Abrams had added a version of it it might have made his movie suck a little less.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: I agree. Blade Runner was boring enough already. Cutting anything..I hesitate to say interesting, but at least less boring...made the film harder to sit through.
Didn't you read my post about the time travelers from the end of your universe telling me I was the only person wo liked the version of blade runner with deckard's narration better than the director's cut? Do you realize that by saying you liked it too you;ve just changed the entire future of the universe?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/07/11 09:03:36
"But the universe is a big place, and whatever happens, you will not be missed..."
Sorry, doc, I certainly didn't mean to discombobulate anyone with this post. Especially not to the degree I seem to have discombobulated you.
As to another bad cut, and I know I'm gonna catch so much hell for this I'l going to need ceramite gloves to handle it all, was the elimination of Deckard's dialogue voice overs in Blade runner.
The voice over was a common thing in a lot of film noir, and bladerunner was film noir writ large. Bladerunner was a story Deckard was telling the audience, like a lot of film noir were. Cutting the voice overs hurt the movie IMO. (And yes I am well aware ofthe fact I am ohe only person in all existence to feel that way. I know. Years ago time travelers from near the end of the universe came to tell me that as the last traces of the current universe were being destroyed it was official that I'm the only person in all existence who felt the voice over version was better than the holy director's cut.)
Nope. I feel the exact same way. The voice-over was the only thing that made that movie coherent.
The 'director's cut' is a mind-numbing void, and large chunks of the movie's plot becomes the green glowing case in Pulp Fiction, with the director nasally intoning 'it's whatever it means to you, the viewer.'
Feth that. Sit and spin on those random unicorns, lazy director man. Go back to telling a bloody story.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/07/20 21:56:59
Quite a few bits in the last Ghostbusters, which basically destroyed the film. Whoever made the decision to remove Rowan's scenes should have been fired on the spot, as well as the dance number which explained why everyone is standing a strange pose. The extended version was somewhat decent.
Alien3. Having already acknowledged that allowing prisoners access to firearms is a bad idea, Ripley then looks shocked that a maxium secuirty prison has no weapons of any kind. It just doesn't read right...
The bar scene at the beginning of Avatar. It establishes a fundamental motive for Jake siding with the natives and setting the theme for the overall film. Also, frustrations of the mercenaries and the Doctor(Weaver's character) showing Jake around the abandoned school huts and explaining why she was grouchy at the beginning of the film. Without these scenes Avatar is an annoying experience rather than one to applaud.
Thufir Hawat's final moment at the end of Dune. Love the movie to bits despite its faults, but this had to be in it. Otherwise, they should have killed him off during the Arrakeen battle. Seems odd to have his torment scenes only to not resolve them. Kyle was pretty good in that scene.
ALIENS, already an excellent movie, was missing the most excellent scenes with the sentry guns watching the corridors.
The sentry gun scenes added tension, but amounted to people watching numbers on a screen go down. They didn't advance the story. As much as I like them, it's easy to see why they were cut.
There is a cut from The Phantom Menace that always annoyed me. As Qui-Gon and Anakin are leasing Mos Espa, one of Maul's drones shows up. It follows them for a bit, and then Qui-Gon turns and slashes it with his sabre. Then they run, because they know they're being followed.
Adds a bit more context as to why the pair are running towards the queen's ship in the next scene.
H.B.M.C. wrote: The sentry gun scenes added tension, but amounted to people watching numbers on a screen go down. They didn't advance the story. As much as I like them, it's easy to see why they were cut.
There is a cut from The Phantom Menace that always annoyed me. As Qui-Gon and Anakin are leasing Mos Espa, one of Maul's drones shows up. It follows them for a bit, and then Qui-Gon turns and slashes it with his sabre. Then they run, because they know they're being followed.
Adds a bit more context as to why the pair are running towards the queen's ship in the next scene.
Gotta disagree. The scene proved the aliens had some intelligence in that they quit rushing into guns after a while. They could learn and adapt. It also explained them coming in thru the ceiling later.
"But the universe is a big place, and whatever happens, you will not be missed..."
The other thing with the Aliens special edition is that James Cameron has said he wanted it to feel “like a hundred miles of bad road”, so he actually wanted it to drag a bit in the middle, to keep piling on yet more bad stuff, to ratchet it up the stakes.
Zed wrote: *All statements reflect my opinion at this moment. if some sort of pretty new model gets released (or if I change my mind at random) I reserve the right to jump on any bandwagon at will.
there's supposedly a Lucas cut of the rise of skywalker, that's supposedly 40% diffrent and accordingly to those that saw it quite a bit better.
Also another issue, is when films are shown on TV, and then cut to piecemeal, missing half the scene in order to make place for more adds...
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
Also another issue, is when films are shown on TV, and then cut to piecemeal, missing half the scene in order to make place for more adds...
Or the pre-watershed Jurassic Park films that keep getting shown in the UK where any blood or attack or direct violence is cut. They are amusingly daft to watch because they don't really make sense - characters just sort of "vanish" at key moments.
Also another issue, is when films are shown on TV, and then cut to piecemeal, missing half the scene in order to make place for more adds...
Or the pre-watershed Jurassic Park films that keep getting shown in the UK where any blood or attack or direct violence is cut. They are amusingly daft to watch because they don't really make sense - characters just sort of "vanish" at key moments.
Some german translated films aswell.
Like i get it, we are too small a market to not just cut one version for , but there's a time were Germany should consider growing up, and out of their bloody CENSOR everything phase....
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
Personally, my vote for the all time "why the %^&* did you cut this stuff?" goes to the theatrical release of Prometheus (I can hear the groaning already).
Lets face it, its a mess of a film that has some great moments but is mostly undermined by a lack of clarity as to WHY any of this is happening (and dont get me started on idiot biologists).
Here's the thing though...the deleted scenes from the blu-ray release go a LONG way to rectifying this (especially the bit where the engineer actually talks to david and the alternate opening scene)
I have seen a fan cut that re-edits them into the film and is goes from an awful jumble of stupid characters and nonsensical plot to actually being somewhat thought-provoking and certainly more enjoyable.
Even the british critic Mark Kermode did a piece specifically calling this out on his youtube channel coming to the conclusion that writer damon lindelof was either trying to be deliberately obtuse or the studio thought cutting some important bits of story would incentivise people to buy the Blu-Ray for the extras.
I honestly can't see any reason these scenes were cut at all.
Supposedly in "the green slime" when shown in japan the reffs to the love triangle are cut because the japanese weren't interested.
There is one time I think a cut was good and well done. In another japanese scifimovie, "Gorath", the director did not want a giant monster in it. He was basically forced by some suit to put in a completely unnecessary, pointless and ridiculous monster scene, but he added in such a way it could be cut without hurting the movie.
Hence the giant walrus (No, I'm not smoking anything) Maguma was forced into the movie and killed by a super jet plane within 6 minutes. The jet plane was later used on the Ultraman series.
The american version left the scene out and explained the disruption of the jet fields was caused by an earthquake.
Suppodely the director asked the props department to make the monster look as ridiculous as possible to encourage it to be cut.
All in all I think cutting it out was a damn good decision.
So yeah, to be fair some cuts are good.
Behold Maguma in all his glory.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/07/21 17:42:27
"But the universe is a big place, and whatever happens, you will not be missed..."
Because there’s a particular movie which was kinda rubbish, but on the DVD a deleted scene provided very specific context and background which made the entire film make sense.
the cut scenes do not appear to on Youtube -- make of that what you will -- but I recall on the DVD they not only explain the actual background and plot when err... thejimmyolsenguy and ..wanna say the feamle wizard go into the magic crystal/something and the plot is explained -- does make much more sense.
IIRC it's only in the deleted scenes you actually learn the dwarf characters name and see him actually join the party, vaguely recall in the "finished" product he's in some trash during a fight scene or other and then , mysteriously, is later on journeying along with the party just because.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/21 19:34:39
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
The Ultimate Cut of Batman v. Superman is clearly superior to the theatrical release. Still has issues, including some new ones. BUT it makes Luthor's plan and manipulation of both Clark and Bruce much clearer.
Absent all the stuff with Clark investigating the Batman (and being manipulated), the scene where he wrecks the Batmobile and tells Bruce to 'bury the bat' makes little sense. Without the scenes of Luthor's goons burning the bodies in Africa to frame Superman, the congressional investigation and hearings make little sense. Etcetera. It's like every piece of connective tissue was left on the cutting room floor.
Of course. maybe the movie shouldn't have needed 3 hours to make sense...
I largely agree, but given the trilogies most excellent nature, I can forgive the indulgence!
One for me is from Aliens, and it’s Ripley being told her daughter has died when she awakes from cryosleep.
Cut as they felt it made her reaction to Newt too obvious, so it’s kinda understandable. But given the framing of the movie is Mum vs Mum? Reckon they could’ve left it in.
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stratigo wrote: I'm gonna spake heresy, but there are several scenes in Return of the King that really should have remained cut on the extended edition
Yeah. When Frodo’s grandkids enrolled in university I thought it had gone just a little too long.
stratigo wrote: I'm gonna spake heresy, but there are several scenes in Return of the King that really should have remained cut on the extended edition
Yeah. When Frodo’s grandkids enrolled in university I thought it had gone just a little too long.
Hahaha!
I’ve thought it was an irony that just a few years later it became standard practice to split the last book in a series into two films, whether it was justified or not, but the one that could really have used that treatment is RotK. The extended cut is 5 hours long dammit! It’s just too much (and still skips great elements, such as the scouring of the Shire).
Zed wrote: *All statements reflect my opinion at this moment. if some sort of pretty new model gets released (or if I change my mind at random) I reserve the right to jump on any bandwagon at will.
This is less a cut content and more just a bad choice in editing.
In both the theatrical and directors cut of Alien when they are setting up Ash's head so they can talk to him the scene has about 5 or 6 shots. The manikin head being set up on the table, Some reaction shots of the various actors in the scene, and the actor playing Ash's head sticking up through a table with special effects.
Well, the cut from the manikin head to the actors head is a hard cut right in the middle of this. Just... fething edit in one of the reaction shots between the 2. It would be WAY less jarring for the audience and the transition from one to the other wouldn't be so obvious.
These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
