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My opponent kept telling me that didnt work...

Intervening Cover provides a 5+. Shrouded improves your cover by +2, providing an overall 3+ cover save.

I suggest you and your opponent review the rules of the game.

Well, I showed him the rulebook, and he was convinced the model getting the save needs to be 25% obscured, and I told him no, that only applies to vehicles, he then denied this, yet in certain other games he puts the tip of his wraithknights base into a ruin and claims the 4+ save... at that point I just didnt wanna make a scene.

"If when it comes to allocate a Wound, the target model's body is at least 25% obscured from the point of view of at least one firer, Wounds allocated to that model receive a cover save. ... all cover provides a 5+ save."

"If a target is partially obscured from the firer by models from a third unit, it receives a 5+ cover save in the same way as if it was behind terrain."

Thus, you get a 5+ if you are obscured 25% for any reason (terrain, etc) and a 5+ if at least 1% obscured by a third party unit.

It's also how GW plays it:


As you can see, the Toxicrene is clearly not 25% obscured, yet the writers claim a Cover Save. Though, to play devils advocate, GW is often not correct about their own rules...

Honestly, it sucks to have to fight with your opponent about Cover Saves. That is never fun. Often it's easier to let it go. But for the Tyranids, it's a really important aspect of the army. Trying to maximize every cover save we take. It's good to give your opponent the benefit of the doubt when allocating Cover. But at the same time, giving in consistently will really affect the ability of many Tyranid units.

Then agian it dosent help when theres a plasma russ, pask punisher, 2 artillery guns, 2 normal russ, and 2 hellhounds on the field


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Does a toxicrene have a cover save normally?

Toxicrene has Shrouded - has a 5+ in open ground, and a 3+ when obscured, and a 2+ when in Ruins.

Thats awesome!

tag8833 wrote:

 N.I.B. wrote:
Regarding the Skytyrant Swarm formation - The Skyrant can't leave the Skytyrant Swarm formation, regardless of what happens to the Gargoyles. He's a jump MC with an 18" synapse, with or without Gargoyles.

Once all of the Gargoyles are dead, you've either crippled your enemy's offense, or essentially lost the game. The much bigger concern is average toughness 3 and lack of fleet.

Of course. I just wanted to kill the misconception that once the Gargoyles are dead, the Skyrant reverts back to normal Flyrant status.

 Midnightdeathblade wrote:
I just bought a swarm, and to be honest I think hormagaunts are worthless. Literally models to be put on the table and taken off. (at least in my local meta.) Should I instead put the extra flesh borers I have on them? Every time I use termagants they at least do something before a hellhound tank shocks them off the board and then flames a squad of genestealers.

Tank Shocking Fearless units isn't that useful...

So I'm going to a highlander tournament in a few months (with the added caveats of no troop replication until you've taken all troops, no LoW, and critically no formations). I've considered a few options for a force - a deep striking one seems hard to pull off - I have a mawloc, one tyrannocyte, and something outflanking with HC unless I want to shell out for a trygon. A rushy one seems fun but I'm unsure of the practicality of running big units of gargoyles, hormas, shrikes and genes. So that leaves me a more balanced approach.

I guess my question is, what do people consider best in the codex in this sort of situation (and if you only had one tyrannocyte, what would you want in it)? Things change considerably with only one flyrant allowed, notably with a deficit in the anti-armour department. My present list of must-haves includes a flyrant, tervigon, mawloc and biovores, though a crone could potentially be nice too.

Mawloc is pretty much garranteed to destroy whatever you want when you deep strike it. than, IIRC, you can put it back in reserve and do that again?
using two of them, you can effectively obliterate anything that isn't khldor draigo strong this way. also, if you end up with it in combat with ten tactical terminators it will die.

Benlisted wrote:
So I'm going to a highlander tournament in a few months (with the added caveats of no troop replication until you've taken all troops, no LoW, and critically no formations). I've considered a few options for a force - a deep striking one seems hard to pull off - I have a mawloc, one tyrannocyte, and something outflanking with HC unless I want to shell out for a trygon. A rushy one seems fun but I'm unsure of the practicality of running big units of gargoyles, hormas, shrikes and genes. So that leaves me a more balanced approach.

I guess my question is, what do people consider best in the codex in this sort of situation (and if you only had one tyrannocyte, what would you want in it)? Things change considerably with only one flyrant allowed, notably with a deficit in the anti-armour department. My present list of must-haves includes a flyrant, tervigon, mawloc and biovores, though a crone could potentially be nice too.

Lets start with things you need.

The next group are things I recommend, but aren't required.


Now you are making serious choices. You might have to give up something above to fit these things into your list, but they might be worth it.


Here are a few units that can work, but are taking things away from your list.

I would avoid most other units.

Here is the 1500 point list that I've run successfully in my last 4 Highlander test games.

 Midnightdeathblade wrote:
I just bought a swarm, and to be honest I think hormagaunts are worthless. Literally models to be put on the table and taken off. (at least in my local meta.) Should I instead put the extra flesh borers I have on them? Every time I use termagants they at least do something before a hellhound tank shocks them off the board and then flames a squad of genestealers.

It's not a bad conversion, I built 10x Devilgaunts, and they look pretty good. I have very good luck with Hormagaunts myself. So it could be the "meta", or how you use them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Benlisted wrote:
So I'm going to a highlander tournament in a few months (with the added caveats of no troop replication until you've taken all troops, no LoW, and critically no formations). I've considered a few options for a force - a deep striking one seems hard to pull off - I have a mawloc, one tyrannocyte, and something outflanking with HC unless I want to shell out for a trygon. A rushy one seems fun but I'm unsure of the practicality of running big units of gargoyles, hormas, shrikes and genes. So that leaves me a more balanced approach.

I guess my question is, what do people consider best in the codex in this sort of situation (and if you only had one tyrannocyte, what would you want in it)? Things change considerably with only one flyrant allowed, notably with a deficit in the anti-armour department. My present list of must-haves includes a flyrant, tervigon, mawloc and biovores, though a crone could potentially be nice too.

Not advocating you take them, but don't Genestealers have Outflank, as an option?

My goal is to try to get out 1 review a day until this tactica is compelted (that is, if I am not working on a battle report). Still looking for volunteers if anyone would like to do a review of any of the units listed on p. 240.


Mucolid: (by jy2)

The mucolid is very important to the Tyranid army, especially if you want to run a Maximum Threat Overload (MTO) type of Tyranid list. That is because they really allow you to maximize on the number of "threats" in the army. So what makes the mucolid a worthwhile investment for a Tyranid army?

1. This guy is the cheapest troop choice in the whole army (and maybe in the whole game as well!). Each one is only 15-pts and satisfy your troop choice, so only 30-pts to fulfill your minimum amount of troops in a standard Combined-Arms Detachment. You can't get any better/cheaper than that.

2. It is a purely sacrificial unit and does not hurt your army in any way when it dies (unless you actually have models near it....just make sure to keep your models at a slight distance). It does not give up any victory points if slain.

3. It makes for a good denial unit. Deepstrike it onto an objective and dare your opponent's troops to come take it. It has the potential to easily kill far greater in points than its cost.

4. It can actually hit enemy flyers. While that may not entirely be necessary, still, the ability may come into use for a flyer that stops near an objective to drop off some troops.

5. It will actually draw some enemy firepower. That means less firepower against the rest of the army. And with 3 Wounds plus Shrouded, it may actually survive!


Now what are its drawbacks?

1. Cannot score nor contest. Basically, the enemy can actually choose to ignore it as long as they don't care about the objective that it is on.

2. It is slow. It won't be able to catch up to anything that attempts to get away from it.


So despite the major drawback of not being able to claim or contest objectives, it is cheap enough that most people just won't care. It is especially worth considering/taking if you are running the Shield of Baal Hive Fleet Leviathan detachment or if you want to build a MTO list with scoring only as an afterthought.

Grading: B

I was doodling around this AM, and I saw that Leviathan is an ideal way to use Tervigon. No need to pay a Termagant "tax", and you can still run 2 or 3 Winged Tyrants.(with a Formation)

So something like this:

HQ: Winged Dakka'rant, Electro-bugs
HQ: Winged Dakka'rant, Electro-bugs
HQ: Tervigon, Thorax Hive +?

Troops: Hormagaunts, x15
Troops: Hormagaunts, x15
Troops: Warrior Brood, x3 (Strangle Cannon)

Heavy: Dakkafex, or two
Heavy: Tyranofex, Thorax Hive (Electro), Adrenal
Heavy: Mawloc

Elite: Zoey Brood, x2
Elite: Veno, x1 or x2
Elite: Veno, as above Obviously x2 Malanthropes would replace all that and make the Warriors less needed..

Toss in a Pod, or two and this is 1500 or less.. Add some Chrome, like Ace and you can hit higher point levels (I'd start tossing in Ripper Swarms as well) this looks like a very flexible force, and the re-roll IB could be very handy.

I think I'd want to "pod" the Tervigon (and the Tyranofex ) but if you choose to walk it, then you need the extra Synapse from the Warriors even less, so you might turn them into Rippers (Tunneling)...

 Unyielding Hunger wrote:
Out of curiosity, is there any redeeming value in running a Tervigon/Termagant list anymore? Been tossing the idea around of using them as a mobile shield for a Bioblast Node. Probably run this at 1000pts or so.

Yes. The tervie+termagant IMO is still a good foundation for a primarily ground-based Tyranid army. As a matter of fact, someone recently won a tournament with a tervigon-based Tyranid list. I probably wouldn't run the combo at 1K (though just the tervigon is actually pretty good at lower points), but at 1500+, I've got no problems with it (the combo).

 Deafbeats wrote:
Hi I'm new to Tyranids, where can I find a place that has all the Tyranid supplements/formations in one place so I can track down and get them?

You can find them here:

Formation & Dataslate Unit List - Including Where to Find Them!

 jy2 wrote:

 Deafbeats wrote:
Hi I'm new to Tyranids, where can I find a place that has all the Tyranid supplements/formations in one place so I can track down and get them?

You can find them here:

Formation & Dataslate Unit List - Including Where to Find Them!

Now this is exactly what I was looking for, thank you, and thanks to the other two guys who told me too

 Icculus wrote:
So I was going to make a new thread to discuss this, but i figured there were enough Ork threads out there. I wanted to hear from some tyranid players about how you counter orks, and things in the ork codex that give you trouble.

What does the Tyranid vs Ork matchup involve and how would one prepare for either side of that battle?

Tyranids excel in dealing with light armor (i.e. trukks). We have problems against heavier army (battle wagons) but can still hurt them with side and rear shots as well as with haywire templates (electroshock grubs on our flyrants).

We have the volume-of-fire and enough blasts to deal with hordes of orks. However, we will have difficulty against massed 2+ units a la MANz. Traditionally, our MC's will fold in combat against massed Power Klaws, with the exception of the dimachaeron. However, the problem will be for the PK's to reach our MC's, who are either flying or screened out by our gribblies. Against a unit like the dimachaeron, do not charge him with your elite units like nobs or MANz. Instead, it's better to tie him up with loads of ork boyz instead (the dima has got a boatload of Insta-death attacks).

As already mentioned by someone above, you need to bring something to deal with our flyrants, which is our most versatile and dangerous unit. If you can deal with them, then you've got a chance. If you can't, then orks will have a hard time against Tyranids.

barnowl wrote:
I think the Warrior TROOP choice in deathstorm is a little under rated. While it is a CC unit, it has some nice perks and takes a standard FOC instead of a being a Formation. Infested Ruin is not a bad, basic free bonus rule for them. They still assault at Int in terrain, and make all Ruins in 12" DT for non-nid factions.

The other two FOC units are bit of a let down, but the total formation is pretty solid with Stelath, (shrouded stealers), and PE.

I can see the Phodian Hive Warriors surprising an unsuspecting opponent, but overall, lack of mobility is what really makes them unappealing to me. Well, that and the cost. If you want to give them mobility, you need to give them a tyrannocyte spore, which makes an already expensive unit even more costly. For the price, they lack the resiliency and offensive output that I look for in an assault unit. And because the unit is so small, they lack the little things that I usually look for in an assault unit, like being able to multi-assault units that are further apart, being able to daisy-chain back into malan/venomthrope range and being able to deal with 2+ save units.

BTW, I believe they only assault at regular Init when going through ruins. Against any other type of difficult terrain, they still attack at I1.

pinecone77 wrote:
I was doodling around this AM, and I saw that Leviathan is an ideal way to use Tervigon. No need to pay a Termagant "tax", and you can still run 2 or 3 Winged Tyrants.(with a Formation)

So something like this:

Spoiler:

HQ: Winged Dakka'rant, Electro-bugs
HQ: Winged Dakka'rant, Electro-bugs
HQ: Tervigon, Thorax Hive +?

Troops: Hormagaunts, x15
Troops: Hormagaunts, x15
Troops: Warrior Brood, x3 (Strangle Cannon)

Heavy: Dakkafex, or two
Heavy: Tyranofex, Thorax Hive (Electro), Adrenal
Heavy: Mawloc

Elite: Zoey Brood, x2
Elite: Veno, x1 or x2
Elite: Veno, as above Obviously x2 Malanthropes would replace all that and make the Warriors less needed..

Toss in a Pod, or two and this is 1500 or less.. Add some Chrome, like Ace and you can hit higher point levels (I'd start tossing in Ripper Swarms as well) this looks like a very flexible force, and the re-roll IB could be very handy.

I think I'd want to "pod" the Tervigon (and the Tyranofex ) but if you choose to walk it, then you need the extra Synapse from the Warriors even less, so you might turn them into Rippers (Tunneling)...

Yeah, the HFL detachment is a good way to get in a tervigon without paying the termagant tax and still keeping your dual flyrants.

I also like the tactic of putting your tervigon in a tyrannocyte. However, if you do this, I've got 2 suggestions:

1. Give him crushing claws to make him a threat to enemy transports.

2. Make sure you've got Synapse covered for your backfield units.

 Icculus wrote:
So I was going to make a new thread to discuss this, but i figured there were enough Ork threads out there. I wanted to hear from some tyranid players about how you counter orks, and things in the ork codex that give you trouble.

What does the Tyranid vs Ork matchup involve and how would one prepare for either side of that battle?

I've played Orks twice in the past few months with tournament lists.

One batrep where horde orks faced my four tyrants is here, its round 4

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/620341.page

As you can see, the massed green tide is still relatively easy to whittle down with 4 tyrants (let alone the now potential 5). In my other game, I faced a stompa and the ork tractor beam guns...those are actual threats. Getting grounded in front of an ork horde is no fun. More bodies are not a solution for you unfortunately, only dedicated AA units.

tag8833 wrote:

Benlisted wrote:
So I'm going to a highlander tournament in a few months (with the added caveats of no troop replication until you've taken all troops, no LoW, and critically no formations). I've considered a few options for a force - a deep striking one seems hard to pull off - I have a mawloc, one tyrannocyte, and something outflanking with HC unless I want to shell out for a trygon. A rushy one seems fun but I'm unsure of the practicality of running big units of gargoyles, hormas, shrikes and genes. So that leaves me a more balanced approach.

I guess my question is, what do people consider best in the codex in this sort of situation (and if you only had one tyrannocyte, what would you want in it)? Things change considerably with only one flyrant allowed, notably with a deficit in the anti-armour department. My present list of must-haves includes a flyrant, tervigon, mawloc and biovores, though a crone could potentially be nice too.

Lets start with things you need.

Spoiler:

1) Dakkaflyrant w/ Hive commander. He's got to carry the load with anti-air, and anti Mech.
2) Malanthrope. You need him to keep you MC's alive. Midfield Synapse.
3) Crone. Helps the flyrant out with anti-air and anti mech.
4) Dakkafex. One of the more versatile units in the codex. Does everything well. You might consider 2, but 1 fits in the Tyrannocyte.
5) Gargoyles (20 or so). The best tarpit in the game. An excellent screening unit. These neutralize threats and let the rest of your army do work.
6) Termagants (20 with 10 Devourers). This is usually what you want to outflank. It can threaten vehicles, infantry, and even some MC's in a pinch.
7) Zoenthrope. Warp charge battery, backfield synapse, and psychic support unit. Really good bang for your buck.
8) Tyrannocyte. You are going to want to put something in here, just got to decide what. Thankfully, you can do this as a gametime decision, even after you opponent deploys, if he deploys first.

The next group are things I recommend, but aren't required.

Spoiler:

9) Venomthrope. Without being able to run a flying circus, you will need a little help for the malanthrope keeping your MC's Alive.
10) Hormagants(10). If you are running Maelstrom this is a no brainer. If you are running Eternal war, you might consider rippers instead.
11) Tyrannofex (Acid spray, E.Grubs). This is normally what goes in the tyrannocyte. He is a walking linebreaker.
12) Exocrine. He helps out with things that the rest of the army struggles with. A Mawloc could fill this role, but if so you probably want to up your Hormagants to 20 to give you another tarpit to help out against MC's. If running Maelstrom, go Mawloc instead.

Now you are making serious choices. You might have to give up something above to fit these things into your list, but they might be worth it.

Spoiler:

13) Mawloc. If there were 4 heavy slots available, this would be in the category above. But, it just doesn't bring quite as much to your army as a TFex or Exocrine unless you are running Maelstrom.
14) Dimachaeron. Highlander favors MSU a bit. Dimachaerons struggles against MSU. But he can kill enemy MC's if they don't kill him first. He can kill vehicles and infantry blobs. If only he moved 12", or had shooting enough to contribute for turn 1 and 2 when he is contributing nothing to your army. You don't want to put him in the Tyrannocyte unless you also take a Comms Relay, because nothing is sadder than a dedicated close combat bad ass that gets his 1st charge on turn 5.
15) Rippers. If playing eternal war, you can consider subbing them in for Hormagants above. Hormagants give you lots more options, and support the rest of your army. Adding them as a 3rd troop to fill the last 50 points isn't a bad idea.
16) Raveners. These serve much the same role as a Dimachaeron, but they move 12" ignoring terrain, and can't get ID by one lucky swing.
17) Shrikes. Like Ravers, but a tad more expensive because you've got to take Adrenal Glands for Fleet. On the plus side, for a few more points they get grenades, and you can take BS + LW if you want them to be a marine killer, and they are synapse.
18) Hormagants (20 Poison). Fill the same role as Raveners, Shrikes, and Dimachaeron, but can't deal with vehicles as effectively. Still, they are a good screen, tarpit, and objective scorer.
19) Warriors (3 with BS). You might want to take a unit of these for Syanpse. Not a bad choice.

Here are a few units that can work, but are taking things away from your list.

Spoiler:

20) Genestealers. A large brood infiltrated onto midfield ruins, and congalined back to a malanthrope. They serve the same purpose as Dimachaeron, Raveners, and Shrikes, but are more fragile.
21) Tervigon HQ. You just get so very little bang for your buck. He is about as good a support unit as a Zoenthrope, and about as threatening as a Mawloc without deep strike. He also steals the Tyrannocyte away from your dakkafex and TFex. Probably drop the Tfex if you take a Tervigon.
22) Tervigon Troop. See above, but even worse because you've got to take more Termagants, and thus are cutting back on other things.
23) Biovores. These are great, but without LAN they aren't as great, and they take a HS away from something better.
24) Hive Guard. Too little fire power, too many points, steal an elite slot.
25) Tyrant Guard (AG, 1 or 2 with Crushing Claws). A surprisingly good unit, but it steals the Tyrannocyte and doesn't contribute until turn 3.
26) Lictors. Take an elite slot, and work best where there are many units of them.

I would avoid most other units.

Here is the 1500 point list that I've run successfully in my last 4 Highlander test games.

Spoiler:

Tyrannocyte(DS)

Tyrant (Wings, 2 TL-Devourers, E.Grubs, Hive Commander)

Malanthrope
Zoenthrope
Venomthrope

18 Termagants (10 Fleshborers, 8 Devourers) <- Outflank.
3 Warriors (BS)

Crone
20 Gargoyles

Carnifex (2 TL-Devourers)
Exocrine
Tyrannofex (AS, E.Grubs) <- usually rides in the tyrannocyte

I'm 4-0 with 3 tablings so far running this list, but I think my opponents are still learning Highlander, so its not a panacea.

Thanks for the info! I admit I wasn't really sold on the terribleness of the Tervigon (I was gonna run him with Miasma Cannon so he had something to do on backfield, and just enlarge my outflanking gaunts somewhat) - but turns out the tourney isn't actually allowing you to summon/spawn units unless you have no copy of that unit before, or if you'd be summoning a troops choice, if you've taken EVERY other troop. So I'd have to pay a massive tax to make it work, so not gonna run one .

Is the Dakkafex really that good without AG and usually not in a pod? I can see its versatility in killing stuff, but it's just so slow.. I guess it makes a nice defender for the mid of your line though.

I am pretty sold on the Crone and Gargoyles though, will definitely be giving them a shot.

What do you think about more Zoanthropes in the brood to threaten tougher vehicles more? Since we really are short on Anti-Armour in highlander.

The deathstorm formation is so close to being good, but it just misses the mark. gakky wargear across the board really kills it. If the Genestealers had been naked, saving 32 pts, the warriors just been ST/RC/TS/AG to save 40 pts, then the carnifex dropping the bioplasma/IWND to save another 35 pts, the whole formation would still be less than amazing, but the units wouldn't be bloated with 20% of erroneous wargear.

If they had gave us the option to select the wargear of the units, then it would have been a solid formation and solid units.

Benlisted wrote:
Thanks for the info! I admit I wasn't really sold on the terribleness of the Tervigon (I was gonna run him with Miasma Cannon so he had something to do on backfield, and just enlarge my outflanking gaunts somewhat) - but turns out the tourney isn't actually allowing you to summon/spawn units unless you have no copy of that unit before, or if you'd be summoning a troops choice, if you've taken EVERY other troop. So I'd have to pay a massive tax to make it work, so not gonna run one .

Is the Dakkafex really that good without AG and usually not in a pod? I can see its versatility in killing stuff, but it's just so slow.. I guess it makes a nice defender for the mid of your line though.

I am pretty sold on the Crone and Gargoyles though, will definitely be giving them a shot.

The Dakkafex is good. If he isn't in a pod, he has to run for a turn to get into range. But if he is in a pod, he doesn't arrive until 2 anyways.

I don't usually give Dakkafexes AG, because they tend to die pretty easy, and making them more expensive isn't all that desirable. They do the lionshare of their damage in the shooting phase anyways. As you say, he is a midfield unit. Get him to the middle of the board, and exert board control from there.

Benlisted wrote:
What do you think about more Zoanthropes in the brood to threaten tougher vehicles more? Since we really are short on Anti-Armour in highlander.

The most important thing is that zoanthropes aren't a very good anti-tank unit. There are too many failure points for them to be effective. Psychic test, Deny the Witch, roll to hit, roll to pen, roll cover / invul, roll on pen table. They don't get much better with larger units because they still only generate 2 warp dice, and a failure on the psychic test or Deny the Witch will hose them. You will cast whatever power they roll more often then warp Lance. The reason you need him though is the Flyrant. If you happen to roll an important power like warp lance on the flyrant you will need the zoey's extra warp dice to get it off. Also he gives you another roll for catalyst, or Onslaught which can be used to get a Dakkafex in range on turn 1.

They are a backfield synapse and support unit. A brood of 1 does that just as well as a brood of 2.

If you have a Flyrant, A crone, Outflanking Devilgants, a Dakkafex, an Exocrine, a tyrannocyte, and a TFex with E.Grubs you probably have enough anti-armor for Highlander. Remember, just like you can't take as much anti-armor, they can't take as much armor.

 Tyran wrote:
If they had gave us the option to select the wargear of the units, then it would have been a solid formation and solid units.

If you could select the wargear it'd be one of the best formations available to us. A 20 man stealer squad with stealth+shrouding+PE would be -extremely- powerful, as well as a dakkafex (probably in a pod) with PE and stealth, and 3 warriors with a BS, stealth and PE.

rigeld2 wrote:

 Midnightdeathblade wrote:
I just bought a swarm, and to be honest I think hormagaunts are worthless. Literally models to be put on the table and taken off. (at least in my local meta.) Should I instead put the extra flesh borers I have on them? Every time I use termagants they at least do something before a hellhound tank shocks them off the board and then flames a squad of genestealers.

Tank Shocking Fearless units isn't that useful...

The termagants outflanked and were not in synapse due to my tyrant being cooked, he tank shocked another outflanking squad that did have synapse and made them bunch up becasue they were fearless, then flamed them.

Hey Hive Fleet,

I'm trying to figure out what to fill out how to fill out my last 250 points for my local escalation league. The league ends at 1750 and we are actually only at the 1000 point make, so I can still make some changes but I'm pretty confident in my 1250 and 1500 point choices.

Rules: No LOW, fortifications, Fighter Ace, formations. Single CAD (event started before Leviathan came out so I'm on the old Tyranid CAD). Can add to existing units (upgrades + additional models) but can't remove.

My list is:

Tyrant - Wings, 2x Devourers, E. Grubs
Tyrant - Wings, 2x Devourers, E. Grubs

Zoanthrope, brood of 2

Rippers, DS
Rippers, DS

Hive Crone, Stinger Salvo
Hive Crone, Stinger Salvo

1000 points

Carnifex, 2x Devourers
Tyrannocyte, Venom Cannons

1250 points

Carnifex, 2x Devourers
Tyrannocyte, Venom Cannons

1500 points

The last 250 I'm not so sure on. The 2 I have been thinking about are:
1. Mawloc, +1 Zoanthrope w/ Neurothrope upgrade, Regen for my Warlord Tyrant
2. Exocrine, +1 Zoanthrope w/ Neurothrope upgrade

Any help would be greatly appreciated. My opponents vary a lot. Orks, Sisters, SM, CSM, Tau, Tyranids, Necrons.

So there's been an influx of material/formations for Tyranids which, in my opinion, have just catapulted them from a middling army all the way up the stratosphere. Tyranids are no longer an afterthought of an army in competitive play. First with the release of the new Forgeworld Tyranid book and accompanying models, then with the release of a plethora of new models (that should have been included with the codex in the very first place!) and now with the release of the Shield of Baal supplement, Tyranids have just shot up the competitive ladder into top-tier territory. Yes, the newest supplement, the Shield of Baal, will be a meta-changing release as it has just injected another top-tier build to the tournament scene.

I've ran it once already against Grant and his Eldar:

1850 Competitive - Jy2's Pentyrant Tyranids vs Eldar w/Tyrannic War Veterans

However, this time, my Pentyrant Tyranids may have met their match. This will probably their toughest test. Ever. Period. Not only am I playing against Spam Adam and his slightly-tailored Tau, but I am playing against it in extremely hostile conditions. Adam, a fellow Team 0 Comp teammate of mine, is a very experienced and good player with his Tau. Now he's not quite up there with Justin Cook's Tau, but believe it or not, I have never been able to beat his Tau with my Tyranids before. Adam took his Tau to the Bay Area Open GT 2014 and took 4th place Overall there. So not only am I playing against an army and general that I have never beaten (not with my Tyranids at least, though I've beaten him plenty of times with my other armies before), but I am playing against him with a tailored list.

I mentioned earlier that I was playing in hostile conditions. So what did I mean by that? I truly needed the right psychic powers against his army. With the right powers, I stood a chance. Without, it would be an uphill battle for sure. I needed Catalyst. Out of 10 psychic powers, I only got it once. I really could have used the Horror. Nope. Not even once in 10 tries. Paroxysm would have helped tremendously....only 1. So what did I get? Mainly Warp Blast and Psychic Scream. Aha! Psychic Scream works well against the low Leadership Tau, right? That was what I thought. Unfortunately, throughout the game, I only managed to cause 1W with it out of maybe 10 LD tests! And Warp Blast, well, it did a grand total of only 1 Hull Point of damage all game. Now this is a little foreshadowing, but basically, my psychic powers did jack and squat (though Catalyst was useful).

But that isn't nearly as bad as what my opponent got for his Warlord Trait. For his Warlord Trait, he got Master of Bullsh*t....ahem, I mean Master of Ambush. He also got 1st turn!!! Oh f*ck! I knew that this game had the potential to be very lopsided. The last time he got MoA and 1st turn, he practically tabled Blackmoor at the BAO by Turn 2. He actually got this combo (MoA + 1st Turn) against my Seekerstar daemons once before. He then proceeded to give my daemons the worst beating they have ever had. By the ways, Adam can potentially infiltrate 5 units. Yes, that's right....friggin' 5 units! Warlord (buffcommander) + unit (either broadsides or markerdrones), 3 riptides and Shadowsun + broadsides (Shadowsun has Infiltrate). That's basically his entire army!!!

If I can manage to pull off a win in such adverse conditions and against an army designed specifically to beat mine, then I will proclaim for a fact that my Pentyrant Tyranids may just be one of the most powerful armies currently. However, that is going to be a big IF.


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1850 Jy2's Pentyrant Tyranids vs Spam Adam's Skyfire Tau


1850 Hive Fleet Pandora

Primary detachment:

Flyrant - 2x TL-Brainleech Devourers, Egrubs, Fighter Ace - +1 Wound (Warlord)
Flyrant - 2x TL-Brainleech Devourers, Egrubs

Lictor
Lictor
Lictor

3x Rippers - Deepstrike
3x Rippers - Deepstrike

Mawloc

Void Shield Generator - 3x Void Shields

Hive Fleet Leviathan detachment:

Flyrant - 2x TL-Brainleech Devourers, Egrubs
Flyrant - 2x TL-Brainleech Devourers, Egrubs
Flyrant - 2x TL-Brainleech Devourers, Egrubs

Malanthrope

1x Mucolid
1x Mucolid
1x Mucolid



1850 Tau w/Firebase Cadre Formation

This is an approximation of his list.

Tau "Buff" Commander - Iridium Armor, Command Control Node, FNP(?)
Shadowsun

Riptide - Ion Accelerator, TL-Fusions, Skyfire
Riptide - Ion Accelerator, TL-Fusions, Skyfire

6x Fire Warriors
Devilfish w/Disruption Pods + SMS
6x Fire Warriors
Devilfish w/Disruption Pods + SMS

9x Marker Drones

Tau Firebase Cadre:

Riptide - Ion Accelerator, TL-Fusions, Skyfire

3x Broadsides - HYMP, TL-SMS, All Skyfire
3x Broadsides - HYMP, TL-SMS, All Skyfire


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Missions:


Primary Objectives: Big Guns Never Tire, 4-pts


Secondary Objectives: Modified Maelstrom, 3-pts

1. Hold Your Objective 1.
2. Hold Your Objective 2.
3. Hold Opponent's Objective 1.
4. Hold Opponent's Objective 2.
5. Destroy an enemy unit.
6. Destroy an enemy unit.


Tertiary Objectives: First Blood, Linebreaker, Slay the Warlord, 1-pt each


Deployment: Vanguard Strike


1st Turn: Tau


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PRE-GAME ANALYSIS:


Coming tomorrow.....


You can follow the rest of the report here:


1850 Jy2's Pentyrant Tyranids vs Spam Adam's Skyfire Tau


Let me know what you guys think about my chances in this situation and against this Tau army.

I expect the Tau to win that one, that's just to many skyfire.

That description had me on the edge of my seat! Very very interested to see how this turns out. Tyranids and Tau are my only two armies, and I'm always interested with where they sit competitively and how they match up.

My head says the Tau win it, but my heart (and my love of storytelling) says the Tyranids find a way to pull it off. Either way this is gonna be a huge hurdle for the Pentyrant list!

 Tyran wrote:
I expect the Tau to win that one, that's just to many skyfire.

I generally agree. Although my main TAC list (Living Artillery) would do just fine against that tau list. No Skyrays at all is such a huge boon to Tyranids, and Biovores would deal with the Marker Lights with ease.