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Sure they're not talking about A hive?

If it's from DH, that might be in reference to the Calixis sector, specifically... which, being an Imperial backwater (relatively speaking), will not have had the time to reach the staggering populations of other, older Imperial worlds/sectors.

Though 25bil seems a bit low, even for the Calixis sector... I'd have to get my DH main book in hand to check the population of Scintilla and Gunmetal City, the Sector Capital and its Sister-Hive on the capital planet.

BaronIveagh wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:
No, your sense of scale is way off. Although thousands of worlds have been exterminated by the Imperium over the millenia only a tiny percentage of conflicts end up in Exterminatus. When the Guard expend 12 million men to recapture a world it is an even smaller infintesimal amount when compared to The Imperial Guard in its entirety. The Imperium has neighborhoods with a greater population than current day Earth; let alone Russia.

Sorry, that's been retconned. Hiveworlds now have around 25 billion people (though the largest may exceed this). Further, according to canon, there are only 32,380 hive worlds in the Imperium, or slightly more then one per sector (one might assume that Segmentum Solar has a slightly higher percentage of these) and make up less then 3% of the worlds of the Imperium.

On the Imperial Guard: It should be noted that most planets are too small to raise more then one or two IG regiments, meaning that they only provide about 5k-10k troops, with Agriworlds, due to their small populations, providing few to none at all.

Cadia gets around this by being a hive world with its entire population in the IG. Kreig gets around it by, according to some sources, tank growing their soldiers. Not sure how other places do it, but a lot are implied to use creative means to get around the issue of not having enough people.

Most planets can add a lot more than 5-10k soldiers. Not sure where you got that from.

Some planets have enormous amounts of Guard because they need to pay their tithes but have few/no natural resources so they pay with men. Others because 2-3 regiments are founded per decade. Others because they have many volunteers. Others because they bear a particular hatred for certain enemies. It varies. Obviously planets, even the smaller, less densely populated ones have millions and millions of people and so are able to field probably closer to ~30,000 men + PDF.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, for hive worlds, I would like to point out that Terra, THE mega-hive, has 100,000,000,000,000 people, and that Armageddon has 10,000,000,000,000 IIRC.

Luke_Prowler wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:The IoM considers themselves to have no other choice fairly often.

ALL planets are of no consequences unless it is Terra, Mars, a FW, in the Solar System, etc. etc. etc.

With the scale of warfare in the 41st Millennium, if a planet is conquered, then by definition it is "overrun end to end"

I'd have to disagree with that particular point. If all planets but a handful were of no consequence, then what was the point of the Damocles Crusade? Or a bunch of other battles that I can't think of at the top of my head.

As for the definition of scale, I think it would be when the planet looks like a shag carpet from orbit. Obviously it's different form enemy to enemy. Orks are one things, Tyranids and Daemon are another.

Just agreeing with Luke here. The Imperium will only declare Exterminatus if the alternative (throwing a mind-boggling amount of resources at the problem until it's over) simply won't work.

The Imperial Armour books seem more reliable sources of fluff than most GW approved cannon, you rarely see a conflict ending with Exterminatus simply becuase the Imperium lost. Why destroy a planet that's been overrun when you can come back later in 100 years or so and bring friends (lots of friends)?

KamikazeCanuck wrote:Sure they're not talking about A hive?

Nope, the entire Hive World of Scintilla.

Psienesis wrote:If it's from DH, that might be in reference to the Calixis sector, specifically... which, being an Imperial backwater (relatively speaking), will not have had the time to reach the staggering populations of other, older Imperial worlds/sectors.

Though 25bil seems a bit low, even for the Calixis sector... I'd have to get my DH main book in hand to check the population of Scintilla and Gunmetal City, the Sector Capital and its Sister-Hive on the capital planet.

The combined population of the entire planet of Scintilla is listed as 25 billion in the DH corebook. It's hives are described as being quite extensive, though some are a bit... unusual. Schintilla is, however, described as being comparable to any other hive world in the immediate area. And I'm always amused when people call Calixis a backwater, because it's one of only three sectors to boarder Scarus (Calyxis, Mandragora, and Ixnaid)... you know, one of the few stable areas around the Eye of Terror? Most heavily fortified areas in the Imperium? Equivalent to Cadia? That Scarus?

im2randomghgh wrote:

Most planets can add a lot more than 5-10k soldiers. Not sure where you got that from.

Some planets have enormous amounts of Guard because they need to pay their tithes but have few/no natural resources so they pay with men. Others because 2-3 regiments are founded per decade. Others because they have many volunteers. Others because they bear a particular hatred for certain enemies. It varies. Obviously planets, even the smaller, less densely populated ones have millions and millions of people and so are able to field probably closer to ~30,000 men + PDF.

Also, for hive worlds, I would like to point out that Terra, THE mega-hive, has 100,000,000,000,000 people, and that Armageddon has 10,000,000,000,000 IIRC.

Not true. Armageddon and Terra are 'officially' unknown in population, though a cross reference in the fluff in the 40k core book (5e) suggests a population around 100 billion for Armageddon. Ichar IV used to have a population over 500 billion, however, that was before that Second Tyrannic War, the same cross reference in 5e implies that it lost 4/5ths of it's population or so. (more or less jibing with something Kage says in one of the Last Chancers novels)

Only 17 Hive Worlds have ever even been named. Only 3 have canon populations, and one of those was depopulated by the tyranids.

As far as the number of people tithed to the IG: It's stated in C:IG (IIRC) that most worlds only raise a handful of regiments, some as low as one or two. This has to do with the number of available people on the planet. (Minea, a hive world with a supposed population of 150 billion exports less then 2m men a year for the IG. This would be, assuming a stable population, less then 0.001% of the humans that would be reaching 'military age' in that given year. On a planet who's only noted exports are men, a single type of ore, and Phosgene Gas.

Catachan, for some reason, has a 1014th regiment, which seems odd, as being a deathworld, it, by definition, has a very small population. Though GW writes all the Catachan units numbers in Roman Numerals, maybe to hope no one notices. Of course, it could be that everyone who can signs up for the Imperial Guard, to get off the planet...

With the exception of Catachan, the highest numbers seem to generally be armored companies. This could be due to the relatively smaller number of men in them compared to a line infantry company allowing a world to hand over more of them.

Or from worlds that GW has lines of minis specifically for. Not that they would ever manipulate fluff to beyond the impossible levels to sell minis (WARD WARD WARD).

Emperors Faithful wrote:

Luke_Prowler wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:The IoM considers themselves to have no other choice fairly often.

ALL planets are of no consequences unless it is Terra, Mars, a FW, in the Solar System, etc. etc. etc.

With the scale of warfare in the 41st Millennium, if a planet is conquered, then by definition it is "overrun end to end"

I'd have to disagree with that particular point. If all planets but a handful were of no consequence, then what was the point of the Damocles Crusade? Or a bunch of other battles that I can't think of at the top of my head.

As for the definition of scale, I think it would be when the planet looks like a shag carpet from orbit. Obviously it's different form enemy to enemy. Orks are one things, Tyranids and Daemon are another.

Just agreeing with Luke here. The Imperium will only declare Exterminatus if the alternative (throwing a mind-boggling amount of resources at the problem until it's over) simply won't work.

The Imperial Armour books seem more reliable sources of fluff than most GW approved cannon, you rarely see a conflict ending with Exterminatus simply becuase the Imperium lost. Why destroy a planet that's been overrun when you can come back later in 100 years or so and bring friends (lots of friends)?

The IoM doesn't have the resources to waste men on a lost cause. They are barely able to hold the IoM together, yet alone play with billions of lives.


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BaronIveagh wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:Sure they're not talking about A hive?

Nope, the entire Hive World of Scintilla.

Psienesis wrote:If it's from DH, that might be in reference to the Calixis sector, specifically... which, being an Imperial backwater (relatively speaking), will not have had the time to reach the staggering populations of other, older Imperial worlds/sectors.

Though 25bil seems a bit low, even for the Calixis sector... I'd have to get my DH main book in hand to check the population of Scintilla and Gunmetal City, the Sector Capital and its Sister-Hive on the capital planet.

The combined population of the entire planet of Scintilla is listed as 25 billion in the DH corebook. It's hives are described as being quite extensive, though some are a bit... unusual. Schintilla is, however, described as being comparable to any other hive world in the immediate area. And I'm always amused when people call Calixis a backwater, because it's one of only three sectors to boarder Scarus (Calyxis, Mandragora, and Ixnaid)... you know, one of the few stable areas around the Eye of Terror? Most heavily fortified areas in the Imperium? Equivalent to Cadia? That Scarus?

im2randomghgh wrote:

Most planets can add a lot more than 5-10k soldiers. Not sure where you got that from.

Some planets have enormous amounts of Guard because they need to pay their tithes but have few/no natural resources so they pay with men. Others because 2-3 regiments are founded per decade. Others because they have many volunteers. Others because they bear a particular hatred for certain enemies. It varies. Obviously planets, even the smaller, less densely populated ones have millions and millions of people and so are able to field probably closer to ~30,000 men + PDF.

Also, for hive worlds, I would like to point out that Terra, THE mega-hive, has 100,000,000,000,000 people, and that Armageddon has 10,000,000,000,000 IIRC.

Not true. Armageddon and Terra are 'officially' unknown in population, though a cross reference in the fluff in the 40k core book (5e) suggests a population around 100 billion for Armageddon. Ichar IV used to have a population over 500 billion, however, that was before that Second Tyrannic War, the same cross reference in 5e implies that it lost 4/5ths of it's population or so. (more or less jibing with something Kage says in one of the Last Chancers novels)

Only 17 Hive Worlds have ever even been named. Only 3 have canon populations, and one of those was depopulated by the tyranids.

As far as the number of people tithed to the IG: It's stated in C:IG (IIRC) that most worlds only raise a handful of regiments, some as low as one or two. This has to do with the number of available people on the planet. (Minea, a hive world with a supposed population of 150 billion exports less then 2m men a year for the IG. This would be, assuming a stable population, less then 0.001% of the humans that would be reaching 'military age' in that given year. On a planet who's only noted exports are men, a single type of ore, and Phosgene Gas.

Catachan, for some reason, has a 1014th regiment, which seems odd, as being a deathworld, it, by definition, has a very small population. Though GW writes all the Catachan units numbers in Roman Numerals, maybe to hope no one notices. Of course, it could be that everyone who can signs up for the Imperial Guard, to get off the planet...

With the exception of Catachan, the highest numbers seem to generally be armored companies. This could be due to the relatively smaller number of men in them compared to a line infantry company allowing a world to hand over more of them.

Or from worlds that GW has lines of minis specifically for. Not that they would ever manipulate fluff to beyond the impossible levels to sell minis (WARD WARD WARD).

Terra population canon http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Terra

Armageddon population canon http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Armageddon

BTW this weapon seems like a MUCH better alternative to exterminatus. http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Ar%27Ka_Cannon

BaronIveagh wrote:

The combined population of the entire planet of Scintilla is listed as 25 billion in the DH corebook. It's hives are described as being quite extensive, though some are a bit... unusual. Schintilla is, however, described as being comparable to any other hive world in the immediate area. And I'm always amused when people call Calixis a backwater, because it's one of only three sectors to boarder Scarus (Calyxis, Mandragora, and Ixnaid)... you know, one of the few stable areas around the Eye of Terror? Most heavily fortified areas in the Imperium? Equivalent to Cadia? That Scarus?

Ehm, because it *is* a backwater, especially in comparison to older, more-established and more-civilized regions of Imperial space. Two Segmentums of Imperial space, although they line up conveniently on the map, might have five hundred or a thousand light-years (or more!) of space between their two closest inhabited worlds. That is a whole lot of space in which a xeno empire, Chaos world or who-knows-what could be hidden. The Imperium is not a continual, contiguous line of human-ruled worlds from Sol to the Jericho Reach, but rather heavily-settled islands of space (like the Calixis Sector, or the Ixnaid Sector) surrounded by vast gulfs of darkness marked "Here, there be Dragons" on the maps of Rogue Traders and Navigators alike; space that, due to the vagaries of warp-travel, have never known the tread of a human ship since the dawn of time.

Of course, it's far more settled and tamed than, say, the Koronus Expanse, which lies beyond the reach of Imperial Law and is the space idealized by Rogue Traders and Explorator Fleets for exploitation, exploration and Big, Fat Paychecks... it's also populated by something like a half-dozen xeno cultures as well as a small cluster of daemon worlds/Chaos-held territories, ringed by terrible warp-storms and a nebula called the Hazeroth Abyss.

Psienesis wrote:

BaronIveagh wrote:

The combined population of the entire planet of Scintilla is listed as 25 billion in the DH corebook. It's hives are described as being quite extensive, though some are a bit... unusual. Schintilla is, however, described as being comparable to any other hive world in the immediate area. And I'm always amused when people call Calixis a backwater, because it's one of only three sectors to boarder Scarus (Calyxis, Mandragora, and Ixnaid)... you know, one of the few stable areas around the Eye of Terror? Most heavily fortified areas in the Imperium? Equivalent to Cadia? That Scarus?

Ehm, because it *is* a backwater, especially in comparison to older, more-established and more-civilized regions of Imperial space. Two Segmentums of Imperial space, although they line up conveniently on the map, might have five hundred or a thousand light-years (or more!) of space between their two closest inhabited worlds. That is a whole lot of space in which a xeno empire, Chaos world or who-knows-what could be hidden. The Imperium is not a continual, contiguous line of human-ruled worlds from Sol to the Jericho Reach, but rather heavily-settled islands of space (like the Calixis Sector, or the Ixnaid Sector) surrounded by vast gulfs of darkness marked "Here, there be Dragons" on the maps of Rogue Traders and Navigators alike; space that, due to the vagaries of warp-travel, have never known the tread of a human ship since the dawn of time.

Of course, it's far more settled and tamed than, say, the Koronus Expanse, which lies beyond the reach of Imperial Law and is the space idealized by Rogue Traders and Explorator Fleets for exploitation, exploration and Big, Fat Paychecks... it's also populated by something like a half-dozen xeno cultures as well as a small cluster of daemon worlds/Chaos-held territories, ringed by terrible warp-storms and a nebula called the Hazeroth Abyss.

Scintilla is such a backwater that they have Slaanesh-cults all over their slums, w/o even knowing. S. L. U. M.

BTW Charlie Sheen is my HQ

im2randomghgh wrote:

Terra population canon http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Terra

You do realize that Inquisition War has been retconned so hard that it bounced, right? Officially, it is no longer part of canon?

Incidentally, 100 trillion people (1x10^26th) outmasses the planet Terra (5.97x10^24th kg.)


On Armageddon: I checked both sources that the wiki sites. Neither have any numbers listed at all. In fact, the Page sited in the Epic Armageddon book is, in fact, a map of the Armageddon system. It does not list a population on the current version on GW's website.

im2randomghgh wrote:
The IoM doesn't have the resources to waste men on a lost cause. They are barely able to hold the IoM together, yet alone play with billions of lives.

The Imperium has a massive amount of resources that it can basically just throw at any problems or opponents that present themselves. To the Imperium, billions of lives are nothing. If they have 500 million guardsmen around (and they would) to throw at a campaign to retake a planet whose main export is nothing more important than edible lubiricant, they'll do it.

It's well established in the world of 40k that the Imperium is willing to expend monstrous amounts of manpower in achieving the most mundane of objectives.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
BTW, 26 billion for a single hive world sounds about right to me.

im2randomghgh wrote:
Terra population canon http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Terra

Armageddon population canon http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Armageddon

BTW this weapon seems like a MUCH better alternative to exterminatus. http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Ar%27Ka_Cannon

And http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Terra which is smart enough to reference relevant sources at specific figures instead of just lumping everything together says that both the population of Terra and Armageddon is "unknown". Your point is?

BaronIveagh wrote:Incidentally, 100 trillion people (1x10^26th) outmasses the planet Terra (5.97x10^24th kg.)

The weight of 100 trillion people is ~10^2 (kilos per person) * 10^2 (100) * 10^12 (trillion). This gives a value of approximately 10^16 kilos. This means either you're engaging in Traviss math, or obesity is a serious problem in the 41st Millenium.

AlexHolker wrote:The weight of 100 trillion people is ~10^2 (kilos per person) * 10^2 (100) * 10^12 (trillion). This gives a value of approximately 10^16 kilos. This means either you're engaging in Traviss math, or obesity is a serious problem in the 41st Millenium.

inb4 fat Americans jokes

@im2random: So you're saying the Imperium will willing sacrifice a whole planet and it's resources, potential or otherwise, everyone living on it, and His most holy cyclone torpedoes, at a complete net less, but not a a few (million) Guardsman to take the planet back? That's skewered, even for the IoM.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:
Terra population canon http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Terra

Armageddon population canon http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Armageddon

BTW this weapon seems like a MUCH better alternative to exterminatus. http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Ar%27Ka_Cannon

And http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Terra which is smart enough to reference relevant sources at specific figures instead of just lumping everything together says that both the population of Terra and Armageddon is "unknown". Your point is?

Did you REALLY just quote lexicanum as canon?


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Emperors Faithful wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:
The IoM doesn't have the resources to waste men on a lost cause. They are barely able to hold the IoM together, yet alone play with billions of lives.

The Imperium has a massive amount of resources that it can basically just throw at any problems or opponents that present themselves. To the Imperium, billions of lives are nothing. If they have 500 million guardsmen around (and they would) to throw at a campaign to retake a planet whose main export is nothing more important than edible lubiricant, they'll do it.

It's well established in the world of 40k that the Imperium is willing to expend monstrous amounts of manpower in achieving the most mundane of objectives.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
BTW, 26 billion for a single hive world sounds about right to me.

They have massive resources ye, but not infinite, and they have to protect 1,000,000 worlds, as well as waging crusades etc.

AlexHolker wrote:

BaronIveagh wrote:Incidentally, 100 trillion people (1x10^26th) outmasses the planet Terra (5.97x10^24th kg.)

The weight of 100 trillion people is ~10^2 (kilos per person) * 10^2 (100) * 10^12 (trillion). This gives a value of approximately 10^16 kilos. This means either you're engaging in Traviss math, or obesity is a serious problem in the 41st Millenium.

LOL, no, because a 'trillion' is one billion billions. A billion being a million millions.

im2randomghgh wrote:

Did you REALLY just quote lexicanum as canon?

LOL That's funny from the person that quoted Warhammer Wiki as canon. Particularly since the sources they sited said no such thing.

BaronIveagh wrote:LOL, no, because a 'trillion' is one billion billions. A billion being a million millions.

Only if you're using the obsolete long scale, and there's no reason to believe that GW was. As you yourself point out, using the obsolete scale gives a nonsensical answer.

BaronIveagh wrote:

AlexHolker wrote:

BaronIveagh wrote:Incidentally, 100 trillion people (1x10^26th) outmasses the planet Terra (5.97x10^24th kg.)

The weight of 100 trillion people is ~10^2 (kilos per person) * 10^2 (100) * 10^12 (trillion). This gives a value of approximately 10^16 kilos. This means either you're engaging in Traviss math, or obesity is a serious problem in the 41st Millenium.

LOL, no, because a 'trillion' is one billion billions. A billion being a million millions.

im2randomghgh wrote:

Did you REALLY just quote lexicanum as canon?

LOL That's funny from the person that quoted Warhammer Wiki as canon. Particularly since the sources they sited said no such thing.

A trillion is one thousand billion, and one billion is one thousand million. I thought they taught numbers in kindergarten?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

im2randomghgh wrote:

BaronIveagh wrote:

AlexHolker wrote:

BaronIveagh wrote:Incidentally, 100 trillion people (1x10^26th) outmasses the planet Terra (5.97x10^24th kg.)

The weight of 100 trillion people is ~10^2 (kilos per person) * 10^2 (100) * 10^12 (trillion). This gives a value of approximately 10^16 kilos. This means either you're engaging in Traviss math, or obesity is a serious problem in the 41st Millenium.

LOL, no, because a 'trillion' is one billion billions. A billion being a million millions.

im2randomghgh wrote:

Did you REALLY just quote lexicanum as canon?

LOL That's funny from the person that quoted Warhammer Wiki as canon. Particularly since the sources they sited said no such thing.

A trillion is one thousand billion, and one billion is one thousand million. I thought they taught numbers in kindergarten?

Warhammer 40k wiki is one thousand thousand thousand times better than better than lexicanum. A lot of the wiki is direct codex quote.

25 Billion is the population of Scintilla. For some reason you extrapolated that to every hive world when in fact it's actually a very small Hive world with only 2 hive cities. Armaggeddon has like 10 hives or something like that. If you wanted to use Scintilla as a measuring stick then Armaggedon has like 125 Billion people.
Now guess how many Hives are on Terra? One. The entire thing is one massive hive. The original surface is 10 miles below the current surface. I don't think it has 100 Trillion - I think its impossible for any planet to have that many people but I do think it has around 500 Billion as per 3ed. definition of a large Hive World.

im2randomghgh wrote:
A trillion is one thousand billion, and one billion is one thousand million. I thought they taught numbers in kindergarten?

They do, but you appearently slept through the lesson regarding the long and short scales.

im2randomghgh wrote:

Warhammer 40k wiki is one thousand thousand thousand times better than better than lexicanum. A lot of the wiki is direct codex quote.

And yet they don't provide direct references to where the material is gathered from? Yeah, clearly one milliard (see what I did there?) times better. /sarcasm

Well, he's not the only one. Henestly they don't actually teach this so called "long scale" in North America generally. And AFAIK it's generally considered obsolete around the world too. The extra dose of weirdness is the Baron is American...

KamikazeCanuck wrote:Well, he's not the only one. Henestly they don't actually teach this so called "long scale" in North America generally. And AFAIK it's generally considered obsolete around the world too. The extra dose of weirdness is the Baron is American...

Then you don't know as far as you should. Most continental european countries use the long scale, and it's as common as the short scale in the rest of the world.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:Well, he's not the only one. Henestly they don't actually teach this so called "long scale" in North America generally. And AFAIK it's generally considered obsolete around the world too. The extra dose of weirdness is the Baron is American...

Then you don't know as far as you should. Most continental european countries use the long scale, and it's as common as the short scale in the rest of the world.

I guess the fact that English speaking countries use the short scale makes the point moot unless the actual words are very similiar. How do you say Quadrillion in Swedish?

AlmightyWalrus wrote: Most continental european countries use the longscale, and it's as common as the short scale in the rest of the world.

Not used in the UK, otherwise known as the home of 40k, so it doesn't matter who else uses it.

DarknessEternal wrote:

AlmightyWalrus wrote: Most continental european countries use the longscale, and it's as common as the short scale in the rest of the world.

Not used in the UK, otherwise known as the home of 40k, so it doesn't matter who else uses it.

You do know that the Long Scale is still called 'British' in some places, and still used in Britain in places, right? Parliament decided to change things after 200 years back in the 70's, to try and bring England into line with the United States. Which is, ironically, trying to go the other way, and bring it's system into line with the Continent, discarding the Imperial system and trying to move to metric. Which uses the long scale.

Oh, and, by the way, American is a dirty word around where I live, particularly since New York broke the compact. The flag I salute doesn't appear in dakkas options, unfortunately.

Armageddon has had 500 billion, and 100 billion attached to it at different times, but so far no 'official' numbers have been made. And, as I said, the notation in the 5e core book suggests around 100 billion.

Well I'm confused. What part of America do they not call themselves Americans and count things in milliards?

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

im2randomghgh wrote:
A trillion is one thousand billion, and one billion is one thousand million. I thought they taught numbers in kindergarten?

They do, but you appearently slept through the lesson regarding the long and short scales.

im2randomghgh wrote:

Warhammer 40k wiki is one thousand thousand thousand times better than better than lexicanum. A lot of the wiki is direct codex quote.

And yet they don't provide direct references to where the material is gathered from? Yeah, clearly one milliard (see what I did there?) times better. /sarcasm

I know about long and short scale, but it's so obsolete I didn't deem it worth considering. I have never seen it actually used while speaking English (I am a francophone). Ce qui est encore plus c'est la fait qu'on utilise l'échelle courte pour presque toutes les choses qu'on fait .

Accoring to wikipedia Francophones use long scale. I wasn't even aware due to being a westerner.

AlexHolker wrote:

BaronIveagh wrote:LOL, no, because a 'trillion' is one billion billions. A billion being a million millions.

Only if you're using the obsolete long scale, and there's no reason to believe that GW was. As you yourself point out, using the obsolete scale gives a nonsensical answer.

Even in the "obsolete long scale", a trillion is a million billions 10^18. In the short scale, a trillion is one thousand billions 10^12.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:What part of America do they not call themselves Americans and count things in milliards?

Which relates to GW and the rules in . . . no manner that comes up? GW is British.

Oddly, the actual discussion here is strangely fascinating.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:Well I'm confused. What part of America do they not call themselves Americans and count things in milliards?

In the 'domestically dependent sovereign nation' of the Seneca Nation of Indians. You know, one of those weird tax free mini nations who have official languages other then English? We do, after all, sit in at hte UN, even though we don't actually have a vote because the US, Spain, and Australia didn't like the idea.

Mind you, one of the native breakfasts is disturbingly similar to British Army rations circa 1790. Hard Tack, Salt pork, and beans...