[Kings of War] Mantic Fantasy News & Rumors

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**Eilif**

BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Billicus wrote:
There are plenty of people who are unironically in to the almost insect-like proportions of the mantic elves and are happy with them. Particularly when ranked up into big units in the manner they're intended for, they look OK by me.

Yeah, I tend to think of Mantic’s elves more like Fae creatures, utterly inhuman and not quite biological. I think they work better for something like The Dresden Files, where their inhuman proportions sell the idea that there’s a whole uncanny magical world out there.

The RGD Gaming fauns are also extremely thin, which makes them natural army mates with Mantic Elves. The aesthetic isn’t for everyone, but it has its market for sure.

This was my view as well going back to their release. "Impossibly thin" doesn't have alot of relevance in terms of the Fae races and their depictions.

Also it's not like there isn't already plenty of precedent for biologically impossible waists in print art and figures. The main difference I see is that such waist proportions are usually applied only to female humans and paired with "enhanced" busts and bottoms. This compared to having such slimness applied across the entire physique and to both male and female examples of an eleven race.

There were still some bad sculpts (bad hands, weird dragons,etc) and it wasn't an army I was interested in, but the overall aesthetic didn't bother me at all.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Heh, I'm okay with that. It's just the "it's fine with one company but not with another" excuse that I'm not fond of. I feel like it's worth noting that GW make the best mass produced wargaming plastic sprue miniatures in the worldD

Do they though? Perry miniatures might disagree.
GW makes a wide range of sci-fantasy figures with odd proportions with a dizzying array of filigree. But that is a long way from determining "best".

BobtheInquisitor wrote:

the funny thing here is, if a new garage-company would bring in a gaming system with rules in the same quality as GW, people would not take it for free and asks them what they think to come up with such a low quality product
yet for GW they happily buy it because "they cannot do it better"

As you seem to be rightly suggesting, better written games already exist. I don't know any folks who have read widely on rulesets and think AoS and 40k are the best written rules available.

In both of the above examples (and seen throughout GW history) market share, adherence to a particular aesthetic and depth of product line is often confused with superior quality.

**NinthMusketeer**

I don't think people -happily- buy Warhammer for matched play. They TOLERATE Warhammer for matched play. Many then try to justify it, to others yes, but also to themselves.

**Kalamadea**

I've always hated that Mantic did elves first, when they really had no experience making models. The proportions are actually fine, I like the lanky look and the armor is good enough. But what makes the elves unusable us the badly designed blobby shields and spears and especially the awful heads and helmets, just absolutely kills the models. Every now and again I pull out the regiment I bought years ago and remember why I could never use them in the first place.

I really hope they redo them soon in the same design as the League of Infamy spearmen and archers, those are significantly better models than the old plastic elves from 2009ish. Especially considering what they're done recently with the goblin infantry, that sort of update in quality and design for the elves would be phenominal.

Until then, I've got heaps of the Oathmark, LotR and Runewars Latari (which are hands-down the BEST wood elf models ever produced, I wish they'd gotten a few more unit desgins)

**Sarouan**

kodos wrote:

the funny thing here is, if a new garage-company would bring in a gaming system with rules in the same quality as GW, people would not take it for free and asks them what they think to come up with such a low quality product
yet for GW they happily buy it because "they cannot do it better"

No, they buy it because they like what GW is making as games. All games are always better than the others to their fans, and that's the same for KoW fans.

I like KoW rules, but I also like the way AoS is designed. It's just not the same game experience. What I'm looking with KoW is a simple yet strategic and elegant mass battle wargame, where I can treat units as single entities and not look too much in details. What I'm looking in AoS is a more skirmish, individual based wargame where I can move each miniature more freely than in KoW, play combos...and also have a lot more variety of battleplans.

I don't like things in both of them, I don't deem one "better" than the other - both are just giving me pleasure in different fields in a different way.

The thing is, they're games and not "perfect rule systems for the sake of having a perfect rule system". That thing doesn't exist in this world, and I think if it would, it would just stop being a game and be utterly boring.

It's fine if you love Mantic Games' design. I like some of their new releases, others I do not. I'm totally not attracted to their bulky ratskins. Do they have character ? Yes. Are their proportions still badly cartoonish ? Yes ! Sure, they may be what they want to do with KoW miniatures, but I don't know... You like the pin-sized elves ? Good for you, I don't - they're not looking like elves, to me, just pitiful beings from a Southern land plagued with famine. But yes, they're old and Mantic Games still sells them until they can replace them, like the basileans. Still, it's low quality. And indeed, quality is something you pay for.

NinthMusketeer wrote:
I don't think people -happily- buy Warhammer for matched play. They TOLERATE Warhammer for matched play. Many then try to justify it, to others yes, but also to themselves.

For matched play in KoW ? Players buy / use Warhammer miniatures in their KoW armies because they look better than Mantic Games miniatures for them, simple as that. Sure, I could have used the new goblins for my goblin army in KoW, but I really love the night goblin designs from GW and Mantic Games doesn't offer me that (other than a few hero miniatures). Their versions of goblins isn't how I see my goblins, just the same for elves. And yeah, the new goblins from Mantic Games are better than their old goblins...but to me, they're still not superior to GW's night goblins (I guess I should call them Gloomspite Gitz, now). And they still look so good in regimental units !

Should I support Mantic Games more by buying their miniatures I don't like ? I don't think so, and I know I'm not alone on that matter. I guess I'm not a "true fan" and I'm fine with that.

**Billicus**

Sarouan wrote:

NinthMusketeer wrote:
I don't think people -happily- buy Warhammer for matched play. They TOLERATE Warhammer for matched play. Many then try to justify it, to others yes, but also to themselves.

For matched play in KoW ? Players buy / use Warhammer miniatures in their KoW armies because they look better than Mantic Games miniatures for them, simple as that.

This just feels like you're trying to score points, nobody's out here denying GW make nice miniatures. I'd point out though that from my experience of the community it's really only a minority of KoW players that use GW miniatures

**BobtheInquisitor**

I deny it. I deny that GW makes nice miniatures.

They’re some kind of scone-baking company, right?

But yeah, GW makes some very nice miniatures for prices that make me ask, “who make adequately nice miniatures?”

**Ancestral Hamster**

BobtheInquisitor wrote:
But yeah, GW makes some very nice miniatures for prices that make me ask, “who make adequately nice miniatures?”

And on that note, take a look at Dark Sword Miniatures. Their sculpting is more to my taste than GW offerings, and some of Mantic's. But their lines are more for the RPG market or collector/painter. Also, they are metal. They do produce the George R.R. Martin Masterworks line (both in 28 Heroic and 54mm). Mr Martin had praise for how Maester Luwin's chain-of-many-metals was rendered.

I've bought some for use in Frostgrave and other small fantasy skirmish games, but I can't make an army with them. {Although they are trying with this Night's Watch set. But metal. I started with metal, but want to avoid it going forward.}

I suspect some of what appeals to me about Dark Sword's aesthetic is that it is very 80's Fantasy. They have Larry Elmore, Clyde Caldwell, and Keith Parkinson lines, illustrators whose work was on the cover of Dragon magazine when I was in high school and college. So it was what I grew up with. And most of the character models I've purchased are based on Larry Elmore's art. So the Dark Sword aesthetic will not appeal to all.

Some trivia: When GW started as Citadel Miniatures, they did not make nice minis. They made Fiend Folio monsters for AD&D (poorly sculpted), and had a good number of naked women being tortured on various devices. So no to nice minis.

**NinthMusketeer**

BobtheInquisitor wrote:
I deny it. I deny that GW makes nice miniatures.

They’re some kind of scone-baking company, right?

Exalt

But yeah, GW makes some very nice miniatures for prices that make me ask, “who make adequately nice miniatures?”

EXALT!!

**Sarouan**

Be as salty as you want.

By the way, you can't escape the fact Mantic Games is also raising their prices for their new releases. You won't be able to hide behind your arguments of "cheap and consumer-friendly" for too long, mark my words.

I know a lot of KoW fans try to deflect this by using regiment bases and putting less miniatures for the according size, but that's avoiding the core problem. In some situations, using GW miniatures for their KoW equivalent is actually not that much expensive in the end. Sometimes it's cheaper.

I feel the scale of the Mantic miniatures is getting slowly bigger too. It's especially true for the monsters...you can feel they will use the titan base (75 mm) more and more often. These bulky ratskins, they feel like they're covering their 20 mm base quite a lot (it's still 20 mm, right ?). Doesn't matter if you're making a regimental base rather than putting together 20 miniatures on their square bases in a 5x4 formation, but it does if you want to make it "classical". I struggled sometimes with some poses or badly chosen arms that weren't suited with a strict base to base formation, looks like it won't be solved with new and future releases as well.

**kodos**

Sarouan wrote:
kodos wrote:

the funny thing here is, if a new garage-company would bring in a gaming system with rules in the same quality as GW, people would not take it for free and asks them what they think to come up with such a low quality product
yet for GW they happily buy it because "they cannot do it better"

No, they buy it because they like what GW is making as games. All games are always better than the others to their fans, and that's the same for KoW fans.

I like KoW rules, but I also like the way AoS is designed. It's just not the same game experience. What I'm looking with KoW is a simple yet strategic and elegant mass battle wargame, where I can treat units as single entities and not look too much in details. What I'm looking in AoS is a more skirmish, individual based wargame where I can move each miniature more freely than in KoW, play combos...and also have a lot more variety of battleplans.

you talked not about liking the designs but the double standard on quality

and liking the GW game design is one thing, being forgiving about their low quality in printed materials and find excuses that the top dog on the TT market is not able to do better (and playtesting or proofreading is impossible for any company) is something different

if people would be as harsh to GW about quality of their products as they are with other comapnies sales numbers would be different
(but there are already a lot of people who use other sources to get the printed material from GW as they don't want to pay anything for that low quality)

I be forgiving if I like the model design, get stuff for cheap and can convert the rest
not happy with the Elves Light Cavalry or Warmachines, but I can convert both by using other kits from the range and/or bying 3rd party bits and still end up cheaper

not happy with metal/plastic hybrids so I never bought Abyssal Dwarfs or EoD although I like the EoD design and wanted an Undead Pharao army since 6th Edi (waited years for GW to update the core Skellis....)

called out on Mantic in a lot of cases to go away from metal, and the change to resin for most is a positive change in the right direction
but I still avoid any metal models they sell
I don't mind the newer PVC models after they changed the hardness of the material and I found a plastic glue that works

and I really hate what they have done with the Nameless in Deadzone
the models are ok for Boardgame/RPG, but the overall design and quality is not good enough for other games even if you make the same models in resin

and from all models Mantic sells, those are by far the ones that really need an update as not only the quality but also the design is off
(next one is EoD but here a change in material would already help)

It's especially true for the monsters...you can feel they will use the titan base (75 mm) more and more often.

having big centerpiece models for each army was a request from the community, the 75mm Base a direct result (and you can use bigger bases in KoW anyway if you want) and I don't see that we get it more and more often

I know a lot of KoW fans try to deflect this by using regiment bases and putting less miniatures for the according size, but that's avoiding the core problem. In some situations, using GW miniatures for their KoW equivalent is actually not that much expensive in the end. Sometimes it's cheaper.

might be, as long as an Army for KoW or AoS (or 40k) with Mantic models costs half of what it costs with GW models

**Sarouan**

kodos wrote:

and liking the GW game design is one thing, being forgiving about their low quality in printed materials and find excuses that the top dog on the TT market is not able to do better (and playtesting or proofreading is impossible for any company) is something different

It's still higher than what other companies are offering, and this is the sad truth. Mantic Games isn't any better here.

having big centerpiece models for each army was a request from the community, the 75mm Base a direct result (and you can use bigger bases in KoW anyway if you want) and I don't see that we get it more and more often

No, that's not because it was a request from the community...people were fine with the previous rules and just adapted to the miniatures they were using and weren't available on the Mantic webstore. Actually, players were annoyed when it came because their previous monsters weren't suddenly on the right base anymore with the current edition.

The reason why Mantic monsters suddenly get bigger is because it's easier to sell at a higher price. It's the same reason GW keeps rising the scale of their miniatures. It's just a matter of time, but we can see Mantic Games doing the same, slowly - their miniatures get slightly bigger than before, and they're sold at a higher price as well.

It's purely for making more money, not for the community. That some players like you make excuses for that change and try to build another narrative saying it's for us enjoying great centerpieces, that's entirely another thing. Because the truth is we could have already centerpieces with monsters fitting on a 50 mm without being overly bulky. But I do agree that Mantic toy dragon I showed before would look less restrained on a 75 mm base than a 50 mm one. Just a matter of time, when they will redesign the miniature, like they did with the others.

might be, as long as an Army for KoW or AoS (or 40k) with Mantic models costs half of what it costs with GW models

Oh, not just the cheap old miniatures ! Actually, the new releases look great on round bases, especially the Vanguard stuff. I like to use my basileans for AoS Cities of Sigmar "count as" (obviously not to play at a GW store, but nowadays that's not really a problem anyway), because I think they give a more "high fantasy paladin" feeling than boring old Empire from WFB. It's certainly a subjective matter, but the faint increase in size with having a 25 mm round base instead of a square of 20 mm gives just the extra space the miniature need to be put more easily base to base with each other. Sadly, it messes the standard KoW regimental base a bit, but it's still playable that way.

I know it's my personnal opinion here, but when I see the new Vanguard boxes, I can't help but notice the miniatures' poses aren't always really thought for KoW regimental bases - even when they make bundles for KoW using the monopose Vanguard miniatures. Sometimes, it feels really clunky.

**BobtheInquisitor**

Kodos, they have released a sprued plastic kit for Abyssal Dwarfs.

**kodos**

I know, thats why I bought some

**DarkBlack**

BobtheInquisitor wrote:GW makes some very nice miniatures for prices that make me ask, “who make adequately nice miniatures?”

Well put!

Sarouan wrote:
kodos wrote:

and liking the GW game design is one thing, being forgiving about their low quality in printed materials and find excuses that the top dog on the TT market is not able to do better (and playtesting or proofreading is impossible for any company) is something different

It's still higher than what other companies are offering, and this is the sad truth. Mantic Games isn't any better here.

bs. GW has incredibly poor rules and their "fixes" are not much better.

The reason why Mantic monsters suddenly get bigger is because it's easier to sell at a higher price. It's the same reason GW keeps rising the scale of their miniatures. It's just a matter of time, but we can see Mantic Games doing the same, slowly - their miniatures get slightly bigger than before, and they're sold at a higher price as well.

Mantic's biggest miniature is $40 though, a third of the GW equivalent/

**kodos**

DarkBlack wrote:

The reason why Mantic monsters suddenly get bigger is because it's easier to sell at a higher price. It's the same reason GW keeps rising the scale of their miniatures. It's just a matter of time, but we can see Mantic Games doing the same, slowly - their miniatures get slightly bigger than before, and they're sold at a higher price as well.

Mantic's biggest miniature is $40 though, a third of the GW equivalent/

I guess we will soon see even bigger miniatures, like Mega-Gargant sized Monsters and those will cost 140€ or more /s

**Eilif**

BobtheInquisitor wrote:

But yeah, GW makes some very nice miniatures for prices that make me ask, “who make adequately nice miniatures?”

I realize that this seems rhetorical, but I'm personally glad that there are lots of companies making good miniatures at bargain prices.

With Mantic being miniatures-agnostic, the canny buyer can wait for close-outs, clearances, etc. I could field a good-sized Enforcer force with the Sedition Wars Vanguard I picked up for an average of about 50 cents each when the game was being blown out.
https://www.chicagoskirmishwargames.com/blog/2016/10/maersk-tesla-corporate-platoon-complete/
Runewars is currently being blown out providing some excellent deals (many still in the Mantic price range though) .

Sarouan wrote:Be as salty as you want.

By the way, you can't escape the fact Mantic Games is also raising their prices for their new releases. You won't be able to hide behind your arguments of "cheap and consumer-friendly" for too long, mark my words.

Yes, its undeniable that Mantic games figures are rising in price. However, by way of clarification, two questions:

1) Is the quality increasing?

2) Are the prices rising faster than inflation?

Because...
If prices are incresing with inflation, they aren't really going up.
If quality is increasing and prices are rising with inflation then you're now getting more for your money.
If quality is increasing and the prices are rising a bit faster than inflation then you're still getting a similar value-for-money.

I suspect that relative to inflation and quality increase the relative price of Mantic miniatures is not increasing very much.
Would those who want to pay 2010 miniatures be ok with 2010 quality? I suspect in many cases the answer is no.

**NinthMusketeer**

People have always said 'oh Mantic prices are rising, soon they'll be on par with GW' completely ignoring that soon after they would be out of business. Obviously that will never be the case; Mantic will need prices to be cheaper as the miniatures are of lower quality. They aren't anywhere near the Kirby-levels of deluded they would need to be to implement such pricing. And besides, GW prices keep increasing too. If we are holding up new mantic minis as an example for price, it is only fair to compare them to new GW minis as an example for their price. Mantic and GW have different niches, there's nothing wrong with that and it isn't a criticism against either company to talk about it.

**DarkBlack**

NinthMusketeer wrote:
People have always said 'oh Mantic prices are rising, soon they'll be on par with GW' completely ignoring that soon after they would be out of business. Obviously that will never be the case; Mantic will need prices to be cheaper as the miniatures are of lower quality.

I reckon that's a big reason of why Rune Wars did so poorly. GW prices for Mantic quality.

**Eilif**

DarkBlack wrote:
NinthMusketeer wrote:
People have always said 'oh Mantic prices are rising, soon they'll be on par with GW' completely ignoring that soon after they would be out of business. Obviously that will never be the case; Mantic will need prices to be cheaper as the miniatures are of lower quality.

I reckon that's a big reason of why Rune Wars did so poorly. GW prices for Mantic quality.

Didn't help that FFG released Legion shortly afterwards. Stole Rune Wars' thunder and FFG's interest.
Shame, as it was a very good game. Got in it on a budget and knew it would eventually die, but I did expect to be supported longer than 3 years. Oh well, my Daqan will live on in KoW.

**Sarouan**

NinthMusketeer wrote:
People have always said 'oh Mantic prices are rising, soon they'll be on par with GW' completely ignoring that soon after they would be out of business. Obviously that will never be the case; Mantic will need prices to be cheaper as the miniatures are of lower quality. They aren't anywhere near the Kirby-levels of deluded they would need to be to implement such pricing. And besides, GW prices keep increasing too. If we are holding up new mantic minis as an example for price, it is only fair to compare them to new GW minis as an example for their price. Mantic and GW have different niches, there's nothing wrong with that and it isn't a criticism against either company to talk about it.

Just look at Armada's prices, when it's basically just a handful of resin ships. It's expensive, if you look closer. "But it's a skirmish game !!" - yep, you're paying the "Skirmish Tax" here. Reason it's sold that way is because the comparison with the other similar products on the market is simply not as crowded as the market for KoW's 28-32 mm fantasy miniatures. Naval wargames aren't that plentiful around, so Mantic Games is more free to put the price as they see it fit. And people will be forced to follow, since there is no that many similar offers elsewhere.

Like you said, competition matters ! And Mantic Games will totally be happy to sell you more at a higher price if they could have done so.

**kodos**

Armada Prices are similar to other similar sized games with Resin models

of course Resin is not as cheap as plastic, it never was

but I guess same people are complaining that 15mm models are much cheaper than 28mm models as you get much more of them for the same price and Mantic is cheating by selling 28mm for a higher price than 15mm

**Sarouan**

kodos wrote:
Armada Prices are similar to other similar sized games with Resin models

of course Resin is not as cheap as plastic, it never was

but I guess same people are complaining that 15mm models are much cheaper than 28mm models as you get much more of them for the same price and Mantic is cheating by selling 28mm for a higher price than 15mm

Some will do, obviously ! For me who sees Mantic Games as just another company like GW, simply at a smaller scale and forced to deal with the competition, it doesn't shock me at all. It's all natural, that's how trade works : sell at the perceived price your customers will accept to buy.

Because in reality, resin isn't especially more expensive than plastic to produce...on the opposite in many cases. Some "small producers" like TTCombat sell whole fantasy regiments at a price defying all competition while it's all resin, after all - and I'm not even talking about 3D printing. Yet the quality isn't always the same.

Still, Armada prices are what they are and you can't deny their numbers in comparison to their other products. To me, it kinda stretches the long time motto of Mantic Games "we make great games at cheap prices". That it stays like this in the mind of their fans is something that I believe will be a hard wake up from a part of them, when Mantic Games will do something more..."GW like", I guess.

**kodos**

well, if numbers is the only thing that counts

I guess Warlord Games is worse than GW
selling 3 plastic ship models for 40€ while their older products are 24 models for 25€

so within years, warlord games increased their prices by 1280% and people are still buying there not realising that they are much worse than GW ever was

either you are just trolling or have no clue what you are talking about

**scarletsquig**

As far as price increases go, basic fantasy regiment box has gone from £12 to £20 from 2009 to 2020.

Adjust for inflation and that's £17 to £20, so a price rise of 18% in real terms.

It's up to the individual to decide if there has been more than a 18% increase in quality over that time period, I'd say there is, there's certainly a lot more physical plastic on the sprues, generally 5 body options, 10 head, different arms, extra bits etc.

Armada is a bit of an outlier, but it's important to realise that the ships are pretty big models in multiple complex parts, better to think of them as ogre-equivalent rather than in 28mm terms. I bought into it and feel a lot better about the purchase after seeing the models.

I don't even want to think about trying to calculate 2009 GW vs 2020 GW, but I do notice when something gets released that isn't entirely price-gouging (tzeentch cultists are good), and was all over that first issue of the AoS partwork (2000 point KoW army for £18).

**NinthMusketeer**

GW prices are inconsistent, though I have noticed they are going into that 'overpricing' phase where they are pushing people from complaining about prices they pay for new minis to complaining about prices they refuse to pay for new minis. It'll calm down eventually when the bean counters remember long term consequences but it sucks for armies getting releases in the meantime. At least Mantic doesn't do tidal pricing.

**kodos**

Hi everyone, Kyle here – the North American Trade Sales Executive here at Mantic and host of the Master Crafted YouTube Channel with a blog about my good friend Jesse.

Arguably, one of the best things about Mantic’s games are the incredible communities that thrive around them. One of Kings of War’s best is a man named Jesse Cornwell. Jesse has been a crucial part of the fun and positivity that surround the game today. He embodies the light hearted nature of tabletop gaming with an endless supply of wit and humor that has graced many of you with smiles and laughter. Winning practically every ‘best sport’ trophy the tournaments he’s played in, even his opponents agree: win or lose, Jesse makes sure you’re having fun while playing the game.

Jesse is fighting a harrowing battle with cancer. At Mantic, we decided to honor his countless contributions to the game with a new model from his favorite faction, Ogres. Not only that, we wanted his direct input on the design process. With the Ogre Warlock in need of a new model, this was the perfect opportunity to put our heads together and make something extra cool.

Anyone familiar with Jesse’s antics will undoubtedly recognize certain pizza related deity symbolism in both the belt and staff. This is also present in Jesse’s extremely popular magic item, Sir Jesse’s Boots of Striding. He felt it was also important to include trinkets and trophies from the Ogres’ mercenary work, throwing in a personal jab to his brother and myself with a Twilight Kin bracer dangling from the staff. I’ve lost to him enough times to agree that this is entirely appropriate.

There’s the paw of a Gur Panther to represent the frequent Ogre cooperation with the Basileans and a shell dangling from its belt to show a bond with the Trident Realm. On the back of the model is a skull, representing the heavy disdain for Undead. Jesse loves the lore in Pannithor and took his task of designing a model that would fit right in. Personally, I love the nod to some of his favorite opponents over the years.

I met Jesse at Adepticon in 2017 where he was matched up against me in round 5. His Ogres took victory in the Dominate scenario over my Twilight Kin setting up a rivalry and deep friendship that will stand the test of time. I’m so incredibly proud of the impact he has had on the thousands of Kings of War fans all over the world. His Mammoth contributions will always be a part of the game.

I’ve always felt that while none of us are here forever, our deeds and actions live on. Many of you have stories and unforgettable interactions with Jesse over the years. Please share them with friends and family and especially those new players you welcome into the game. Always find a way to make your opponent smile and make a lasting memory from your encounter. That’s the best of what Jesse represents. When we first met, he jokingly asked if I could make him famous…

Mission accomplished, buddy.

The Ogre Warlock model will be available from Mantic Games later this year. We recommend a nice coat of glossy finish to make it extra ‘sweaty'

**Boss Salvage**

Thanks for sharing the whole post - I had just seen the (great looking) warlock before. Happy to say I got to play Jesse at the first Pax Unplugged, in a slobberknocker of a match that I dominated until his two siegebreaker hordes went on an absolute tear and I think pulled it back to a draw! Super great guy, I'm hoping he can beat cancer into submission too, even if Kyle's language here is pretty dire

**NinthMusketeer**

SO glad to see them move away from human sized legs on ogre minis. Solid shaman design there.

**kodos**

they moved away from that design long time ago
they just did not update the normal Ogre Warrior Box yet

**Baragash**

Boss Salvage wrote:
Thanks for sharing the whole post - I had just seen the (great looking) warlock before. Happy to say I got to play Jesse at the first Pax Unplugged, in a slobberknocker of a match that I dominated until his two siegebreaker hordes went on an absolute tear and I think pulled it back to a draw! Super great guy, I'm hoping he can beat cancer into submission too, even if Kyle's language here is pretty dire

Unfortunately Jesse himself has indicated it’s a matter of time as his body is now too weak for further chemo, and he’s bed-ridden in hospital.