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I'm looking at it now. The Nob has one wound.

The entry for bike squads doesn't even list the Dakkacannons. However, They have Bikes. The rules for the bikes is that they have twin-linked Dakkacannons.

I crunched the numbers for them and found out that Bike squads outshoot both a Tornado and a 6 man las/plas squad point-for-point...And they're more mobile and better in HTH...

What are you talking about? It's listed in their wargear (Dakkagun, not cannon), clear as day.

Posted By tegeus-Cromis on 11/02/2007 1:49 PM

The entry for bike squads doesn't even list the Dakkacannons.

What are you talking about? It's listed in their wargear (Dakkagun, not cannon), clear as day.

yup and if you want to read it RAW it looks like the ork personally has a choppa, slugga and dakka-gun, and the warbike which he also comes with has a twin-linked dakka gun (under the warbike rules).

I don't see an issue with the twin-linking, you just need to be clear you are firing the warbikes dakka-cannon, not his own personal one.

The 1 wound nob is amusing though.

Posted By skyth on 11/02/2007 1:32 PM
The entry for bike squads doesn't even list the Dakkacannons. However, They have Bikes. The rules for the bikes is that they have twin-linked Dakkacannons.

I crunched the numbers for them and found out that Bike squads outshoot both a Tornado and a 6 man las/plas squad point-for-point...And they're more mobile and better in HTH...

Thats to be expected though, this codex is a mash of lousy and rampant power creep.  (like shoota boyz costing the same as guardsmen yet being superior in every way.  They should have been 7 pts. apiece, but thats a different story altogether)

basically its doing the same thing as most of the codexes that have come before it. (excluding marine variants)

Posted By skyth on 11/02/2007 1:32 PM
The entry for bike squads doesn't even list the Dakkacannons. However, They have Bikes. The rules for the bikes is that they have twin-linked Dakkacannons.

I crunched the numbers for them and found out that Bike squads outshoot both a Tornado and a 6 man las/plas squad point-for-point...And they're more mobile and better in HTH...

Assuming you mean MEQ targets, then not by my reckoning, the tornado significantly outshoots the bikers point for point, the las/plas is slightly weaker at 13-18, but significantly better at rapid fire range.

for points spent per (mean average) dead MEQ i get
the biker at 68.5pts
the tornado at 48pts
the lasplas at 74pts/45pts for >12/<=12.

Posted By puree on 11/02/2007 4:55 PM

Posted By skyth on 11/02/2007 1:32 PM
The entry for bike squads doesn't even list the Dakkacannons. However, They have Bikes. The rules for the bikes is that they have twin-linked Dakkacannons.

I crunched the numbers for them and found out that Bike squads outshoot both a Tornado and a 6 man las/plas squad point-for-point...And they're more mobile and better in HTH...

Assuming you mean MEQ targets, then not by my reckoning, the tornado significantly outshoots the bikers point for point, the las/plas is slightly weaker at 13-18, but significantly better at rapid fire range.

for points spent per (mean average) dead MEQ i get
the biker at 68.5pts
the tornado at 48pts
the lasplas at 74pts/45pts for >12/<=12.

I'll move it to tactics...But I mean the bikers shooting at the tornado vs the tornado shooting at the bikers...

Anyone notice that the big shootas/rokkits for the Battlewagon are no longer "bolt-on" weapons that must be fired by the passengers?  Now the crew fire them, leaving the passengers to shoot their own guns.  Lootas (or even Flash Gitz) in Battlewagons are sweet...

Also, the description for kustom mega blasta says it gets hot.  Does this have any effect on a Killa Kan or Deff Dread if it gets hot while they are shooting it?  As it is written it doesn't look like it but maybe I'm missing something.

IntoTheRain:
Let's not exaggerate things. Only the most optimistic Ork players and most pessimistic mechdar players have suggested that new Orks > mechdar, for instance, and between new Orks and asscannon spam Marines with Castellan WWs, my money is with the Marines.

Posted By Beast on 11/03/2007 12:59 AM

Anyone notice that the big shootas/rokkits for the Battlewagon are no longer "bolt-on" weapons that must be fired by the passengers?  Now the crew fire them, leaving the passengers to shoot their own guns.  Lootas (or even Flash Gitz) in Battlewagons are sweet...

Also, the description for kustom mega blasta says it gets hot.  Does this have any effect on a Killa Kan or Deff Dread if it gets hot while they are shooting it?  As it is written it doesn't look like it but maybe I'm missing something.

Gets hot rule itself says it doesn't affect vehicles.

Posted By AgeOfEgos on 11/02/2007 7:51 AM

Well it was a fairly objective, didn't contradict itself and lacked a bucket of cynical comments.  I think your "thunder" is safe!

Please point out where I contradicted myself. I'd be interested to hear.

And if it's where I laughed at Havocs having access to the MoK, then please don't bother...

BYE

A little OT: Hey HBMC, when/where will Armybuilder files be ready for the Ork Codex?

Posted By H.B.M.C. on 11/03/2007 2:05 AM

Posted By AgeOfEgos on 11/02/2007 7:51 AM

Well it was a fairly objective, didn't contradict itself and lacked a bucket of cynical comments.  I think your "thunder" is safe!

Please point out where I contradicted myself. I'd be interested to hear.

And if it's where I laughed at Havocs having access to the MoK, then please don't bother...

BYE

Actually, that wasn't one I was talking about (Although now that you mention it)...

Regardless, PM sent.  I don't want to completely pollute the thread so we can continue there.

Posted By malfred on 11/03/2007 6:57 AM
A little OT: Hey HBMC, when/where will Armybuilder files be ready for the Ork Codex?

Not my area sorry.


AgeOfEgos:

The Havocs with the MoK comment isn't a contradiction of my earlier statements in regards to my ire over the gross simplification and distillation of Khorne. In fact, the MoK Havoc comment was in support of my statements. I would have thought it obvious what I meant by the comment, but let me explain in the simplest terms I can:

Old GW Khorne = Lord of Combat, God of Blood, pride, honour, martial prowess.
New GW Khorne = RAR! KILL! TAKE SKULLS! RAH!!!!

Havocs should be able to get the Mark of Khorne, and it should make them better shooters, not give them an extra attack. That is why I found it funny.

Not a contradiction.


BYE

Oops, maybe I was thinking of Ghaz. My bad.

Posted By H.B.M.C. on 11/03/2007 7:26 AM

Posted By malfred on 11/03/2007 6:57 AM
A little OT: Hey HBMC, when/where will Armybuilder files be ready for the Ork Codex?

Not my area sorry.


AgeOfEgos:

The Havocs with the MoK comment isn't a contradiction of my earlier statements in regards to my ire over the gross simplification and distillation of Khorne. In fact, the MoK Havoc comment was in support of my statements. I would have thought it obvious what I meant by the comment, but let me explain in the simplest terms I can:

Old GW Khorne = Lord of Combat, God of Blood, pride, honour, martial prowess.
New GW Khorne = RAR! KILL! TAKE SKULLS! RAH!!!!

Havocs should be able to get the Mark of Khorne, and it should make them better shooters, not give them an extra attack. That is why I found it funny.

Not a contradiction.


BYE

Well, you brought the Havoc bit up...not I bubba.  I sent you a PM and we can continue there.  Lets save the rest of the thread for the Ork lovers.

 

How does this new codex affect the Kult of Speed?

From what I read, trukks =/= entanglement = lots of killing.
Stormboyz viable. But no burnas and choppas for the boys? How will that affect marines and terminators?

Posted By AgeOfEgos on 11/03/2007 8:24 AM

Well, you brought the Havoc bit up...not I bubba.  I sent you a PM and we can continue there.  Lets save the rest of the thread for the Ork lovers.

Are you trying to prevent this thread from going OT, Egos?  Because I just can't allow that.

Cheese!

Posted By Shadow_Strike on 11/03/2007 8:41 AM
How does this new codex affect the Kult of Speed?

From what I read, trukks =/= entanglement = lots of killing.
Stormboyz viable. But no burnas and choppas for the boys? How will that affect marines and terminators?

Regular Marines will still go down through numbers.

Terminators are a tougher nut to crack. They're expensive though and every Boyz squad usually includes a Power Klaw Nob. The regular Boyz will mostly just shield the Nob while he does the damage.

Orks are no longer auto-win vs. Lysander/Deathwing, but I think they'll still match up well.

Posted By tegeus-Cromis on 11/03/2007 1:11 AM
Let's not exaggerate things. Only the most optimistic Ork players and most pessimistic mechdar players have suggested that new Orks > mechdar, for instance, and between new Orks and asscannon spam Marines with Castellan WWs, my money is with the Marines.

I'm actually one of the ones who doesn't think it will affect the meta >

I was more of making the point how bad GW is getting about making good units bad and bad units good to the point of outright absurdity. (Guard players should be screaming about the cost of Shoota/Slugga Boyz)

Posted By IntoTheRain on 11/03/2007 12:25 PM

Posted By tegeus-Cromis on 11/03/2007 1:11 AM
Let's not exaggerate things. Only the most optimistic Ork players and most pessimistic mechdar players have suggested that new Orks > mechdar, for instance, and between new Orks and asscannon spam Marines with Castellan WWs, my money is with the Marines.

I'm actually one of the ones who doesn't think it will affect the meta >

I was more of making the point how bad GW is getting about making good units bad and bad units good to the point of outright absurdity. (Guard players should be screaming about the cost of Shoota/Slugga Boyz)

I think Guard players are too busy screaming about the cost of Battle Sisters vs. Stormtroopers. Once we get our voices back we'll complain about Shoota/Slugga Boyz.

Well, that's not power creep then, is it? Power creep is when a later codex is stronger than earlier ones, not when a codex is internally unbalanced.

Well, compare Orks to Dark Angels or Chaos...I'd say Orks are more powerful...

But invoking DA, BA and Chaos already disproves the notion of power creep, as these are clearly codices that are weaker than what came before.

Posted By tegeus-Cromis on 11/03/2007 1:42 PM
But invoking DA, BA and Chaos already disproves the notion of power creep, as these are clearly codices that are weaker than what came before.

It's not 'power creep' any more with 40K Codexes. The term 'power rollercoaster' is much more accurate.

Posted By Asmodai on 11/03/2007 12:34 PM

I think Guard players are too busy screaming about the cost of Battle Sisters vs. Stormtroopers.

Well, if it makes you feel any better at least Stormtroopers will still be around in 5th edition.

Posted By Abadabadoobaddon on 11/03/2007 11:27 PM

Posted By Asmodai on 11/03/2007 12:34 PM

I think Guard players are too busy screaming about the cost of Battle Sisters vs. Stormtroopers.

Well, if it makes you feel any better at least Stormtroopers will still be around in 5th edition.

The way you say it doesn't make me feel any better at all!

HAHAHAH! Boy am I glad I own 40 Storm Boyz!

Posted By Abadabadoobaddon on 11/03/2007 11:27 PM

Posted By Asmodai on 11/03/2007 12:34 PM

I think Guard players are too busy screaming about the cost of Battle Sisters vs. Stormtroopers.

Well, if it makes you feel any better at least Stormtroopers will still be around in 5th edition.

Bite your tounge! If they take out Sisters, I am showing up at their door with ~35 pounds of metal minis in a sock, and beating them with it until a new Codex comes out... or money. I would also be willing to hit them till money comes out.

No existing armies that have a codex will be removed, that is GW's mantra now so I don't think you need to worry about the sisters going anywhere.