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Ah, I see what you are saying. Makes sense to me now. I think it would make sense from a fluff point of view, especially in a Bad Moon mob, for the Nob to ahve the bigga gun, but from a melee standpoint in a slugga mob it wouldn't be such a hot idea... The number of special weapons stays the same, is all, so there's no way to get a 3rd special in a 20 strong mob. Thanks for walking me through that.

The only thing that makes me sad is that I can't now use my recently converted and painted new Kommando nob with PK and Rokkit. It's the only one I really care about, and it specifies either or. Sigh.

Yeah, I feel your pain. I have to uncovert my warboss with choppa and power klaw now. And I don't relish the idea much...

The Glory Hogs rule is horribly written, because it is extremely easy to get around.  So your tankbustas want to shoot at a space marine squad but there is a vehicle within LOS but clearly out of range?  "...must always attempt to shoot and/or assault an enemy vehicle..."  Ok, just choose the assault requirement, it says must attempt to shoot OR assault.  So shoot at the marine squad, and then attempt to assault the vehicle, which you can't because it is not a valid target as you didn't shoot at it.  Sounds easy to me, but maybe Flavius can figure it out exactly.

BTW, lootas FTW as the new falcon-killing experts.  I figure a full squad of 15 could down an Eldar skimmer each turn (30 shots, 10 hits, 3 glancing hits, 1 immobilized or destroyed roll).  Your opponent is going to be so worried about all the orks heading his way that 45 models with autocannons positioned 4 feet away are probably never going to be shot at.

Posted By Oaka on 11/01/2007 4:20 PM

The Glory Hogs rule is horribly written, because it is extremely easy to get around.  So your tankbustas want to shoot at a space marine squad but there is a vehicle within LOS but clearly out of range?  "...must always attempt to shoot and/or assault an enemy vehicle..."  Ok, just choose the assault requirement, it says must attempt to shoot OR assault.  So shoot at the marine squad, and then attempt to assault the vehicle, which you can't because it is not a valid target as you didn't shoot at it.  Sounds easy to me, but maybe Flavius can figure it out exactly.

BTW, lootas FTW as the new falcon-killing experts.  I figure a full squad of 15 could down an Eldar skimmer each turn (30 shots, 10 hits, 3 glancing hits, 1 immobilized or destroyed roll).  Your opponent is going to be so worried about all the orks heading his way that 45 models with autocannons positioned 4 feet away are probably never going to be shot at.

The copy I have doesn't say shoot OR assault. Though I actually like the glory rule, it nice and orky. I think the out of range issue is overstated, you have a 30" threat range, elite deploys after heavy, and most mech lists aren't of the sit back on board edge and shoot type. Sure the other guy might be able to manouver to keep out of range, but that may just as much be disrupting his plans in doing so, if you think he'll do that then stick the bustas in a place that creates a 'cirlce of tank protection 30" '.  On the other hand I'm not sure that they are worth it, but thats nothing to do with the glory rule.

You really need to recheck your maths if you think 3 glances will average a downed falcon a turn. By 'falcon' of course no one normally means a bare bones version.

Posted By Toreador on 11/01/2007 11:39 AM
Again, he gets Ld 10 from Mob Rule. He is going to be hard to stop when around a big mob of boyz, with even psychic hood only being effective 50% of the time. It is an easy way to represent the fluff that the more boyz around, the more powerful the weirdboy is.

 

I have to disagree with this.  His LD is equal to the number of boys in his squad.  If hes attached to a unit 30 boys strong his LD is 30 for the purposes of a psychic test.  No where in the main rule book does it say your LD is limited to 10.  Its just a matter that no model has ever been given a higher LD.

The specific ork rule says this.

"... Because of this, Ork mobs may always choose to substitute the number of orks in their mob for their normal LD value."  If an Ork mob numbers 11 or more models, it has the fearless rule."

Ok, so if your at 11 your fearless, it doesn't ever say you top out at LD10.  Its just one of those little thngs.  When making a test, a Wierd boy attached to a mob currently of 16 or more boys never has to worry about a psychic hood.  Notice, you will still take Perils of the warp if you roll a 2 or a 12.  But as long as you have 11 or more boys with him he will never fail his test either.

Personally I have no problem with this.  The Hood is too damn powerfull and the ork psychic abilities aren't all that breaking.  It perfectly fits within the Ork fluff.  The Weirdboy has all his mates around him cheering him forward.  There is no way in hell he is going to fail.  That and you can only have two wierd boys in the army anyway.  Its not that bad.

Posted By Jayden63 on 11/01/2007 4:58 PM

Posted By Toreador on 11/01/2007 11:39 AM
Again, he gets Ld 10 from Mob Rule. He is going to be hard to stop when around a big mob of boyz, with even psychic hood only being effective 50% of the time. It is an easy way to represent the fluff that the more boyz around, the more powerful the weirdboy is.

 

I have to disagree with this.  His LD is equal to the number of boys in his squad.  If hes attached to a unit 30 boys strong his LD is 30 for the purposes of a psychic test.  No where in the main rule book does it say your LD is limited to 10.  Its just a matter that no model has ever been given a higher LD.

The specific ork rule says this.

"... Because of this, Ork mobs may always choose to substitute the number of orks in their mob for their normal LD value."  If an Ork mob numbers 11 or more models, it has the fearless rule."

Ok, so if your at 11 your fearless, it doesn't ever say you top out at LD10.  Its just one of those little thngs.  When making a test, a Wierd boy attached to a mob currently of 16 or more boys never has to worry about a psychic hood.  Notice, you will still take Perils of the warp if you roll a 2 or a 12.  But as long as you have 11 or more boys with him he will never fail his test either.

Personally I have no problem with this.  The Hood is too damn powerfull and the ork psychic abilities aren't all that breaking.  It perfectly fits within the Ork fluff.  The Weirdboy has all his mates around him cheering him forward.  There is no way in hell he is going to fail.  That and you can only have two wierd boys in the army anyway.  Its not that bad.

All characteristics are measured on a scale of 0 to 10, page 12 of the rule book. That quite heavily implies that there is no such thing as a ld higher than 10.

Hmm, I missed that part. I went straight to the LD part and not the little paragraph before it all. Thanks. Still, LD 10 isn't bad either. Just not as cool. Hoods still suck though.

 

Of course you could always argue that codex rules take presidence over BBB rules.  The ork rule about replacing LD is very specific.  I'm not going to argue about one way or the other, its just interesting.   I wonder how long we will have to wait for a FAQ on a codex leaked 2 months early.

Posted By Da Boss on 11/01/2007 12:33 PM
Yeah I think Gitz are a bit too overpriced considering how specialised they are, and the low BS. I'd run them in combat patrol, for the laugh and because Gitz are fun, but I think they would be dissapointing in a full on game. I mean, you are looking at a VERY pricey unit that can be almost wiped out in a single battlecannon shot.

You guys DO realize flash gitz are all nobs right?  As in multi attack 2 wound higher leadership nobs.  About twice the size of an ork boy?  You know the ones I'm talking about right?  They are large?  Green?..

Yeah, the ones that will run scared before a big mob of boyz would (no fearlessness), that cost about as much as 4 shoota boyz (flash gits do anyways), that have two wounds but are instakilled by S8 weapons, that are basically out classed by the same points in boyz. Yeah, those nobs. I really want to like Flash Gits but they are not worth the points for what they can dish out and take in return.

wait a minute?! let me see if I get this straight. The one dude can take a character and turn him into a squig?! this will be the most hated coolest thing in the ork army. So a daemon prince or a blood thirster can get turned into a squiq?! hahahahahahaha, i cant wait.

There's no question that these are two of the best units in the list, but I think Trukk Boyz compare very favorably to Stormboyz. As blown away as I was initially by Stormboyz, I'm think Trukk Boyz might be the better option.

You can kit out 12 Boyz with a Big Shoota, Nob, Klaw and Bossple, put them in a Trukk with Red Paint, a Rokkit and a Wreckin Ball for the same cost as 13 Stormboyz with Nob, Klaw and Bosspole.

The Trukk is faster than the Stormboyz, it brings Rokkits and a Wreckin Ball (a very cute upgrade), and it protects the Boyz from flashlights. The Rokkit and Wreckin Ball are pretty major for a list that's short on anti-tank, and way long on anti-infantry.

It's also not totally terrible to be in a Trukk when it gets killed.

I half wonder if the amazing stats on the Stormboyz aren't there just to let them keep pace with a Trukk full of Boyz.



What abuse is that? Showing the Tankbustas a tank at long range to prevent them shooting elsewhere? Big deal.

I'm thinking about taking Tankbustas. Clearly you can get all the troop killing you need out of Trukk Boyz and Stormboyz, so it comes down to dealing with the enemy tanks. Tankbustas are far from a bargain, but the Glory Hog rule is really no big deal. You want them shooting at tanks, so the fact that they have to doesn't matter much.

Basically all this rule amounts to is that they can't shoot infantry if they can see a tank. I didn't buy them to shoot infantry, and if things go right, all the infantry will already be locked in CC with Boyz already anyway.

They're all packing Rokkits and Ork Meltabombs. If they get a look at a tank, they can put a lot of Rokkits in the air. If they assault a tank, forget it. They can also bring bomb-squigs, which virtually guarantee an S8 hit on any vehicle within 18", and with a downside that shouldn't be too big of a deal, as all the Trukks should be empty by the time the Tankbustas are shooting anyway.



I am too. But then again, if somebody is shooting them, they're not shooting the Trukks and Stormboyz, and if they don't put all their guns into that task for the first turn or two, they're going to lose bad enough that they can have the Tankbustas.

It's not like 10 Tankbustas is really even that expensive of a unit.



Yeah, but not Entanglement, right? This was never terribly clear to me. But Trukks no longer Entangle, just Pin, which is a major, MAJOR benefit for Orks.

Posted By winterman on 11/01/2007 9:13 PM

You guys DO realize flash gitz are all nobs right? As in multi attack 2 wound higher leadership nobs. About twice the size of an ork boy? You know the ones I'm talking about right? They are large? Green?..

Yeah, the ones that will run scared before a big mob of boyz would (no fearlessness), that cost about as much as 4 shoota boyz (flash gits do anyways), that have two wounds but are instakilled by S8 weapons, that are basically out classed by the same points in boyz. Yeah, those nobs. I really want to like Flash Gits but they are not worth the points for what they can dish out and take in return.

Just making sure.  People were acting like they were somehow 15 points overpriced and could never ever possibly ever make back their points costs.  They aren't a terrible unit they are just hugely outclassed by their competition (lootas and regular boyz).

Thanks for the rundown, Uatu. Lots of good stuff in there. That being said, I don't play Orks.

Of course, I'm still waiting patiently for HBMC's review.

ShumaGorath:
Knowing that they're nobz and thinking that they're 15 points overpriced and could never ever possibly ever make back their points costs are not mutually exclusive. All three are true IMO.

Posted By smart_alex on 11/01/2007 10:41 PM
wait a minute?! let me see if I get this straight. The one dude can take a character and turn him into a squig?! this will be the most hated coolest thing in the ork army. So a daemon prince or a blood thirster can get turned into a squiq?! hahahahahahaha, i cant wait.

Neither the Daemon Prince nor the Bloodthirster are IC's any more so it won't work on them.

*flips through Chaos Codex to check*

Guys, what's a Bloodthirster?

BYE


This dig at the Chaos Codex was brought to you by the Charity for the Terminally Stupid.

Posted By H.B.M.C. on 11/02/2007 3:57 AM
*flips through Chaos Codex to check*

Guys, what's a Bloodthirster?

BYE


This dig at the Chaos Codex was brought to you by the Charity for the Terminally Stupid.

Comments like this are why I'm waiting patiently for your review.

Ya know, its funny you bring it up, but now whenever I call the demons by name at the local GW, all the newer players give me weird glazed over looks.

Trukks are absurdly great.

Fast Vehicle.

Open topped.

Three of the best vehicle upgrades in the entire game.
Red-paint job
Reinforced Ram
Grot Riggers


And finally....ramshackle!

Move over Raiders, you are finally out-classed as the game's premier light transport.

Posted By H.B.M.C. on 10/31/2007 4:55 PM
Geeze... talk about stealing someone else's thunder...

BYE

Well it was a fairly objective, didn't contradict itself and lacked a bucket of cynical comments.  I think your "thunder" is safe!

Posted By Toreador on 11/01/2007 2:06 PM
okay, it goes by the flow guys.

Options
you may exchange a boyz slugga or shoota for a big shoota or rokkit.
You can also upgrade a boy to a nob. It does not say that it can't be the boy you earlier upgraded to a rokkit or big shoota. I have found no where in the version I have that would not allow me to do this. It doesn't give you an extra weapon though. All it lets you do is keep the cool conversion you had, or put it on a moderately more survivable model. You can therefore get a nob in a boyz mob with a Big Shoota or Rokkit and a Power Klaw.

Eh, I didn't notice that the first reading around.  I think this was one of the *female dog*es my buddy had too...

Posted By uatu13 on 10/31/2007 4:53 PM

Wazzdakka Gutzmek lost almost all of his special abilities, and instead is allowed to shoot after turbo boosting. He now has a S8 gun, which is cool, but give that he’s only BS2 it probably won’t make much of a difference. He’s also a ton more points, which is a shame.

I think you missed the part where he makes warbikers Troops, and the fact he can fire his weaponS after turbo boosting, which is the dakkacannon ( which is assault4)  or the custom mega blasta he has or his slugga.  he is a mek with warboss stats so he can also fix stuff in a pinch too ( snicker) But for his points he points wise on par with a warboss on a bike and pk  well give or take 30 points or so, but with all the extras he gives he is worth it.

Wow, that is some nice tank killing ability.

Narlix, check his S. He doesn't have Warboss stats. Still, I'd definitely say his special rules are worth the points, provided you're able to make use of the FA slots he frees up.

He's certainly a good answer to a lot of potentially sticky problems.
T6(5) is pretty good too, on something that fast and punchy and shooty.
I really hope GW actually do models for all the special characters this time.

If you do the statistics Warbikers are an excellent fast attack choice. That is, assuming their Deffguns are actually twin-linked. Unfortunately the summarized rules towards the end of the codex state that warbikers simply get "Deffguns," while at the same time it was stated earlier in the codex in the entry for war bikers that they carry twin-linked Deffguns. This contradiction will be used by non-ork players to harass us and call the judge over. Because all judges don't think alike, this will result in Warbikers having random effectiveness. If the judge rules that the Deffguns are twin-linked, then Warbikers, for that particular game, will be amazing. If the judge rules that they are not twin-linked, they will be below average units, according to statistics. Such a shame that GW could make such a horrible mistake, having a units effectiveness dependent on juge perpectives rather than absolute rules. Unless this is fixed before printing, I won't be using them. I won't play with a unit that has random effectiveness in each different tournament game.

Did you notice that the Nob has only one wound, too? Better hope for some last-minute proofreading or a hasty FAQ.

I did notice that they didn't list their Deffguns as being TL in ther unit entry, but I think it's pretty obvious that they're twin linked, not only from the model, but also as carried over from the previous codex. Anyone that argues they're not TL is just being a jackball.

I do think Ork bikes are nice, especially since their armor and dust cloud save is improved, and now that they have 2 CCW with furious charge. What stopped me from taking them before is their lack of choppas, but now they're a pretty decent way to get a whole bunch of orks into CC. The only problem I see with them is that with their small unit sizes they're much more susceptible to running after only a few guys are killed. I would have liked to see some bonus for the smaller, more elite units to keep them in the game longer, but oh well. I definitely think ork bikes have a place in future games, and their new models are totally awesome!

I'm not talking about the summary page that was leaked a while back. I'm talking about the Warbikers rules entry towards the back in the full leaked codex. Nobz have 2 wounds in its rules entry, the only problem is the Deffguns. The larger entry towards the beginning that has the fluff and the Deffgun stats says that Warbikers have twin-linked Deffguns, but the smaller rules entry later in the codex does not state that they are twin-linked. People will certainly harass Ork players by arguing that the earlier entry is just for fluff, and the rules entry later in the book with the point costs, wargear, upgrades, etc... is the correct ruling to use.